@@LegendofTotalWar War wagons can be okay in multiplayer due to their mobility and the enemy not having AI cheats to buff them up. But yeah not much purpose in legendary campaigns lol
For anyone who needs it 1:04 brettonian 2:33 scaven 4:44 Vampire counts 6:18 Vampire coast 7:48 Dark elves 9:02 lizardmen 10:52 wood elves 12:26 dwarves 15:58 Tomb kings 17:37 Greenskins 19:47 beastmen 21:51 Norsca 23:08 chaos warriors 23:42 high elf 27:42 empire hope this was helpful to someone. Sorry If somone has already done this but I went looking so i could rewatch the darkelf bit and couldn't find one.
I actually got a lot of use out of them earlygame, since I could pitch one into a unit of strong enemies and wither them down for the weaker forces I have at the time. Also good for gatebreaking.
John J. Spurgin I’ll use them every once in a while, but only in the early game. Going up against some of the skaven skavenslave stacks as Luther harkon. The skavenslaves will approach my front lines and from the rear 2 bloated corpses will flank them and ka-boom. As much as 500+ enemies dead, multiple units broken, several others routing, others wavering. It’s good for that. It does quickly get beaten by far better units such as carronades, leviathans, necrofex, and others by mid game.
Well, it's not so much 'Worst unit' as 'Unit you shouldn't recruit' So you can recruit peasants, because they're literally free, but you wouldn't recruit money, because they cost money (even if they're better maybe)
Legend: "The only one use for the war wagons is against bloated corpses..." Me: Ah, of course, shot them and retreat when they get close. Legend: "...because you would have this unit charge into a bloated corpse to get rid of it" ... He's not wrong tho.
yeah, that is genuinely the best way to get rid of them against AI, especially how it tends to keep them amongst its ranks. Your ammunition is precious, don't waste it, just ram them with a single entity or a chariot that won't take any damage. Special mention if you manage to skullfuck the AI's depth guard or gunnery mob that the corpse was next to, because big brains tactics.
1 hellstorm rockets shoots at you, it goes everywhere but at you. 2 hellstorm rockets, it was closed but still laughable. 3 hellstorm rockets, ok now its scary. 4 and above, f*ck that sh*t im out. 😂😂😂
As of the Throt/Sisters DLC, Hawk Riders are AMAZING if you are playing as the Sisters of Twilight. They get a unique bombardment ability that hammers units of all stripes, along with a few campaign perks as the Sisters get stronger. I use them all the time, but only for the Sisters because they can punch well above their weight class.
@@IlPagliacoTriste22 They get even crazier with the right skills, too. Plus the Sisters themselves basically being flying artillery. So much death. I love trapping Dark Elves in their fortresses and just annihilating them ;)
@@wiltarthebarbarian1988 I had a TON of fun on my first ever wood elves playthrough with the sisters and hawk riders. Their Volley ability would turn the tide of any battle I went into.
It depends if you are playing in a multi or not! In a single-play campaign if you play as a vampire coast faction. Bloated Corpses will not do anything but having 1 slot for a better option as in your army roster so it's useless for you but AI will spam them at you always :D
AI are terrible with them lol. They keep them by their backline sometimes. As skaven, this is the perfect opportunity to menace below their backline and use the corpse to nuke their own unit lmao
legend is a fucking idiot. a single bloated corpse oneshots the best infantries of the game for a fraction of their price. >but they suck in multiplayer because they immediatly get targeted well duh, as for every other dangerous unity that becomes a priority target. but he was talking about campaign so his logic doesn't make sense. again, he's a fucking idiot.
Another update on the War Wagons: Their damage has been increased 10x since this video. Literally, they do 10x as much damage. They are actually useful now.
@@jabloko992 probably not but hell, it sure does blow shit up. By the time the monsters are near, they probably the only one left to be killed and most likely badly wounded too. If the hellstorm didnt missed that much if aiming for that monster alone. Plus, with a bunch of handgunners and spears waiting for it, i dont really think it wouldnt be that hard to deal with. Unless the ai bring a full 19 units of monsters, then i would trade the wagons for some cannons.
Yes, I did Markus Wulfhart Panzer Korps campaign and...Helblaster Wagon is 10x better. Needs to setup(idk why tbh, balance must be), but it's vastly superior. Mortar Wagon is my least favorite one. To the point I replaced them with Helblaster Wagons. But yeah, Gun Wagons aren't bad these days. Just average imo.
@@goransekulic3671 Last time I played as Franz, you could only get one Hellblaster Wagon and that was ROR, other than that it was regular war wagon and mortar.
I rush the white lios of Chrace building i every high elves campaign and the first thing I think when seeing war wagons in the update it "looks cool, I want to test Empire with them" XD For my defence, White Lions were fucking op in the original game and one f the best units of High Elves :p
Someone needs to create a mod that gives a single faction all of these units and nothing else. Then Legend has to do a livestream with that modded faction.
I propose that such a faction be named "The Outcasts" - a mercenary force composed of units that found no place among the armies that initially recruited them and decided to form their own faction instead of putting up with shit from their fellows.
I actually find having a bloated corpse on each flank is pretty nice for dealing with cavalry flank attacks. Was about to get charged by a rank 7 centigors with great weapons once, corpse just walks infront of them and pops killing 90% of their unit and insta shattering them.
Exactly, BCs are great in early game because of that. At worst, a BC unit can be spent to take out an elite enemy cavalry unit that could kill several of your squishy zombie mobs. At best, you have a mini-nuke that can instantly obliterate a 3-5 unit clump of enemy infantry.
@@icyman2 By the time AI discovers that it's time to send their campaign to Legend to fix, they probably have figured out they shouldn't be recruiting 15 carts into the army
they are tanky as hell and actually can dish out good damage against low entity squads or heroes. its just that playing with big slow tanky units is usefull only in niche situation. having archers and spearmen is better anyway.
I don´t play at top level. I like to have 1-2 units of Slayers as reserves to protect flanks and/or shooters. In a Battle Line I use them the same way as troops with Great Weapon or Miners with Blasting Charges - deployed a bit back in a checkers formation, with the shielded units deployed forward to take the brunt of an impact. Then countercharge like units with Great Weapon. Not playing Legendary I can afford to care for the "look" of an army, and go for balance at all stages of the game: roughly 25% War machines, 25% Missile troops, 25% Shielded units, 25% Hardhitters ... that is 4-5 of each, plus some characters. But I agree: an Army with no hardhitters and more of the others is more effective.
So.....did you know calvary count as a large unit? Slayers are anti large. They *eat calv*, atleast the unit of slayers I had annhilated a group of chaos knights.
Actually poison wind globadiers are pretty much worthless. They are inaccurate, have low range, don't have their own tech branch in Ikit's workshop and are just not needed since jezzails and rattlings are in the game.
The bloated corpses can be super effective early game not just destroying units if you use them right, but also ruining leadership allowing you to maintain a very small roster
@@koaxanderhoff8970 Bloaty bois are the meme Vampire Coast unit, but they do a great job at either wiping a unit or wiping its morale, agreed. Don't really need them late, but they're a great raise dead option just prior to a battle.
@@c.alexander4199 legend won a massively disadvantaged fight with Bloated Corpses. Also, Hawk Riders and Slayers are both decent now (the former is broken with Sisters of Twilight)
I understand his perspective, but giants actually do have some value when mixed in with front line melee troops as they cause psychological problems with the enemy line and they deal out great damage - but if you are using them, you might want to employ units that keep missile units busy (like harpies or fast light cavalry - make killing the archers your priority if you employ giants). That said, I rarely use the giants myself since, as Legendoftotalwar pointed out, there are superior alternatives available - I only make use of them as a challenge.
@@FrankCastle-tq9bz Issue is their size, they area huge, easy to hit target that has barely any armor. Thus even its huge HP pool can´t save it, especially since it is REALLY slow. Which is the reason Shaggoths are so good, they have all the advantages of Giants but are FAST. And armored.
@@sim.frischh9781 I am aware of this - hence the reason for fast hitters to keep missile troops preoccupied. But you are right about the dragon ogre shaggoths: all the advantages of giants without the glaring weaknesses.
As far as Bloated Corpses go i have to strongly disagree. They are amazing at cheaply taking out heavily armored blobs at the early part of the campaigns. Saurus, Dread Corsaires, Dwarves and whatever other early heavily armored infantry is both cheaply and easily dealt with Bloated Corpses. The AI is not smart enough to focus the BCorpses and you can simply let the AI pile up on your trash melee and then get a massive explosion killing multiple units of heavier armor infantry. They are even great at countering early armored cavalry because, you guessed it, the AI is not smart enough to move the expensive cavalry (which is charging at gun line) away from the intercepting BCorpse. Due to its victims usually routing after losing 90% of their health it also affects enemy morale since whatever unit you blew up the BCorpse on is valuable (not expendable). Its literally a "one use" mini nuke (or a land mine) that allows you to cheaply and quickly deal with armored units some AI uses a lot in the early/mid campaign. Raise dead makes it even better because you can just instantly (and without the monster building) recruit BCorpses as disposable armor-killer. Yea the mortars and polearms zombies and zombie handguns are at the same tier but having 2 bloated coprses in your army is vastly more useful than having 2 more melee zombies. Due to AI being stupid the BCorpse can easily trade 1:1 versus expensive deadly early game units such as saurus - if you blob enemy with your lord it can even kill multiple armored units for a price of just 1 BCorpse (lords suffer almost no damage from it).
I definitely agree with you both. I seen some RU-vidrs used it good during their campaign of the vampire coasts. It's a unit that's rare to be used tho, depending on the enemy your fighting, the army comp you and the enemy have. Bloated corpses are so good to just wreck the enemy and as you both said, it's cheap. The big difference of cheap and expensive units are their uses. For example faction units like the black guards of the dark elves and imperial foot of the empire. Most of those expensive units wouldn't be put on front lines but on the flanks or the back of medium tier troops that absorbs the shock of Archer fire and engaging the enemy lines.
I hear you, but they are still a one-shot unit - if you fail to make effective use of it the first time, you don't get another chance like you would with other undead (in which case you can either cast Invocation on them or let them regenerate through other means and send them back into the fray): they are just fine when they work properly, but when they don't you are just throwing a unit away - a unit on the roster that could be filled with something better-suited to dealing with armor from a distance perhaps (*looks at the Necrofex Colossus*).
I would say that bloated corpses are worth raising from the dead, but not actually investing the effort to recruit properly. You usually dont need more than the couple you pick up from roaming.
Hard agree. I can't tell you how many battles I've been surprised by an army of super heavily armored foes and had my butt saved by a couple of those thicc bois. It's just so satisfying to see a corpse waddle into a group of very concerning infantry, or for the AI to go full dummy and send several units to attack the corpse, only to have all those units melt and immediately retreat, for very little cost.
Slayers always overperform in my campaigns, I have had a a few fights where I was counting on losing the infantry fight but for some reason slayers always do better than I expect them to in wrong match ups.
It interesting to see how some of the units on this list Legend now loves. The Hawk Riders got buffs and are now great and Legend now likes using the Bloated Corpse. It's great early game and in an emergency through Raise dead. With the new Dwarf Grudge mechanic giving you a reserve of Slayers they are used as an emergency army along with the RoRs.
Bloateds were always good. But pointless and of an ugly design. They are ultra binary, either they blow up 100+ units with them or 0. That's some shit design! And you can't even train them mid battle like you can Infested Terrans in Starcraft! Tbh, they should be a summon, perhaps akin to Skaven Summon mechanic.
I agree that I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t give war wagons more missile damage... have them be using larger muskets that could only be used effectively due to their weight by leaning them on the wall of the war wagon or something.
The bloated corpse gets such great value in the early game though. They literally delete the most dangerous unit the AI tosses at you, and can basically keep it from flanking. If you use it right, it can delete two whole units. Now I don't play legendary difficulty, so maybe the AI runs away from them there, but damn, I giggle to myself over deleting higher value troops that could have wrecked me otherwise.
Although I understand, why you wouldn't want to recruit bloated corpses, I find them to be quite useful as a garrison unit: Since the AI likes to blob a lot, you can get >100 kills with them regularly and as opposed to basically every other unit in the game it doesn't matter that they spawn with low health right after taking a settlement.
Bloated corpses are better on the enemy team. Just charge your leader into a crowd as long as you're confident he'll survive and watch the bloated corpses jump into the middle of their own troops and absolutely destroy them. Works well at the start of Harkon's campaign in the first battles.
@@SmashingSnow Best place to get a feel for it is the first fight where the enemy gets two of the corpses on Harkon's start. It's either the very first or second fight you'll have with Harkon. If it's the same map as normal there's a small patch of forest just in front of the enemy on their right. You can put the mornghauls there in vanguard, run Harkon and your own bloated corpse up to the top of the woods remembering to switch fire at will off so Harkon isn't spotted, then charge him out into the nearest group of handgunners. The enemy is on defensive this battle so they will always form up in the same spots. With a bit of luck they'll charge the two nearest zombie mobs in before the first corpse gets there and you'll devastate all three groups. If you're luckier you can then go for the other handgunners, rinse and repeat and most of their stuffs dead if it goes perfect. even if it only works with the first you get a major advantage. Just shuffle your other troops as far up to them as you can without getting into the handgunners range so they can back Harkon up sooner. The mornghauls can help here too if you positioned them in the woods once the corpses are gone but keep em clear of the enemy leader as he'll trash em.
@@SmashingSnow Oh and be sure it's not gonna cost your leader because if it screws up you'll obviously understand the consequences of losing the leader early in a fight.
@@SmashingSnow Hope the minor walkthrough given works for a good tester as it's never let me down on that particular fight and it leaves you that starter bloated corpse spare for another fight which is always handy as you can also use the trick with your own corpses, added bonus being you control it. The AI is a bit dumb like that though it doesn't work on larger stuff same as corpses are crap against your own single entity units.
Legend: You don't ever need to recruit this unit... Quest: Recruit this shit unit and waste 2-4 turns for it if you want this super glorious awesomesauce item Me: F-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-....
Canalp Daşer Yeah those quests really have to go. Maintain 20 units or go to province or defeat so and so, those are all fine. Recruit 2-3 white lions? Ugh fuck I have to build a fucking GROVE?! Uggggh
@@JB-xl2jc personally I think the defeat X enemy factions one is just as bad You want gahl maraz? Well take Karl off the frontline and send him rummaging through the badlands for several orc stacks to fight. It got a bit better with the forest orcs and crooked moon, but if they get wiped out early Franz is fucked.
I disagree, all these units are bad on normal and hard as well. For all units he did mention other better alternatives including the melee ones, such as shaggoths/mammoths beating giants and 2 alternatives to slayers that much better support the usual dwarf core. Stegadons being more effective despite being mostly melee(they have the greatbow but it's minor in usage usually) while costing more. I don't think any of his arguments boil down to "legendary difficulty". Even the white lions are still not really worth it, despite having been buffed and their building chain being merged with the sisters/handmaiden building. For any decent missile core(which is the predominant high elf core) you will want something that can last or deal enough damage to be worth it. They struggle to output damage and both silverin guard(same tier) and swordsmasters(same job more or less) do much better, with silverin guards actually being able to also slaughter most large enemies. The only time you should think about getting white lions is for the alastair memestack or if you need to global recruit some armorpiercing really fast, since swordsmasters and sisters still take a bit longer on global.
@@Swodah well, while I mostly agree that most of his picks are for all levels, the dwarf slayers are pretty damn good for the first half of the game if you play slayer king. For him, the slayers are decently priced for dwarfs. Plus while even with his bonus to their survivability they take more losses than warriors or longbeards, they rarely get wiped on normal and hard. And with the verious boni to their refill rate, they'll actually be ready for battle faster/mode in general than the other two.
@@reappermen The Eagle Archers changed a bit now, and are actually quite worth it with the sisters of twilight (it obviously wasn’t a thing, when Legend made this video)
@@robinekhoodekful true, but I choose not to mention them because of the video and dlc release dates. Can't critizie legends for that after all, but the OP's point about the video name was really valid imo.
I actually do play trolls in Throgg's army because with his bonuses they get quite strong. It's still worse than mammoths but it's viable even on high difficulty. A giant-only campaign would be almost impossible because you have to wait to get a settlement to tier 5 before you can recruit anything. Maybe with Norsca where you can use confederation easily.
@@Prushinthespirit throgg makes good trolls though. Ice trolls really pull it. Especially when you can so easily wreck the other norscans with them. Try a all dryad playthrough of the wood elves. Thats a true challenge.
The biggest problem I have with giants (besides their lack of splash damage) is that they constantly exit melee and just stand there staring off into the distance. They never move with the battle line or pursue enemy units, and seem to get stuck on friendly units. For some reason it's extremely hard to get them to engage enemy units. It's why they are greatly outperformed by regular savage orcs.
I love the bloated corpses you can hide them and trick the ai into following you up a hill or around the trees and then bam you got 3 shots of them coming in diffrent directions the ai groups up. It's a trade unit for sure but saves me sometime
I only agree on kegend with this giants are absolute fucking ass their better used like a gorebeast charriot or as a kamikaze bomber since upon its death it deals damage
The use I found for the slayer units is that they are good for protecting your back line from flying units or spawned units. And situationally they can also be useful if they remain hidden until the last moment and charge the enemy infantry on the flank. Or even keeping them in reserves until melee is met, and then flanking the enemy. Or they keep a large unit that would otherwise tear through your main line busy. There are a few good uses for them actually, I initially had thought of only one.
I love the bloated, against mass infantry, and with skillful dodgeing with a leader ahead of them, they can even take out bunches of both :)(inf and arc). But yes, they suck ,but the comic value is awesome,,,, :),
They are good at exactly one thing which is blow up enemy heavy infantry. They do that better than any other unit but outside of that they have no utility. Its so hard to get them close enough against most factions to get them to do damage. It is awesome when you pull it off though.
Bloated is honestly not that bad on very hard/ legendary. The fleet has no answer to heavy infantry early on and one bloaty boi can easily take one out. Their raising cost is not that bad either, so is their upkeep
Always 1 in the army, they are one of the best units for vampirate imo. your lord is gonna be tanking in front of ranged units and attract alot of attention and BOOM!
I always have one in my army. I hide it in the wood at the start if possible and sneak it in a big melee blob. Most of the time it's my unit with the most kills.
17:40 Agreed that Trolls do not fit well into your "typical Greenskin" roster. - They rather self-evidently become far more of an option when playing Goblins with Skarsnik, though.
The main reason I am looking foward to the The Paunch DLC is because you get the new trolls. It will make Skarsnik's campaign much, much more fun and easy to play, and will encourage you to not rush straight for Karak Eight Peaks unless on Legendary. With the trolls on Very Hard you can get by with gobbos, although obviously Legendary requires your army on the top of its game.
Lmao I can't with the cold Knights one. I've downloaded a mod that changes the name of cold ones into clever girls and it's never been the same. Lmao clever girl Knights
Mostly agree, but two disputes: - I actually got a lot of use out of bloaties early in my Noctilus campaign, because Lothern got to elite tier units ridiculously fast at VH difficulty. Raise 'em, run 'em out of the forest, and blow up a unit of Swordmasters of Hoeth. But yeah, once you're on your feet and have a good gun line they are garbage. - A single unit of carrion is nice to take down siege engines. Carrion *do* defeat low tier archers and siege crews on VH battle difficulty in my experience.
@@detorrV2 Agree, same can be said about bats. It's a small niche but a niche that can be pretty crucial going up against artillery since they rek skellies
I was coming here to post just that about bloats, never played vampire coast before, but its a good unit for raising 3 of them and can kill wayyy more than their value if you use them right. I disagree with just asscharging into a single unit, wait till the enemy is entangled with a few of your meat shields and run the corpse in there, you can take out 3-5 enemy units will a well placed bloat and you only lose a bloated corpse and a deckhand mob which you can raise again after the battle. Most of my bloats have 250+ kills at the end of a battle.
"it's a unit that would be useful in the late game, and not useful in the early game, but you wouldn't ever recruit it in the late game... because it's so shit!" Favorite quote on youtube 2020.
@@scout360pyroz I once made a back-up army with nothing but Bloated corpses as a meme and had them run into the back of the enemy line while they were tied up with my dudes was hilarious to watch
The splash damage and burst potential of the Solar Engine Bastilodon makes including a few of them in to a Stegadon doomstack somewhat worth it. They can melt the most dangerous or most densely packed groups of enemies (like the anti large or monstrous units) while your stegadons meet the enemies charge. They're definitely worse in melee, but they're still better in melee than most artillery in the game.
15th *Mounted Yeomen* I always saw the Mounted Yeomen as a dedicated "anti-artillery" unit : they're cheap, they're fast and, above all, they have _"vanguard deployment."_ And, believe it or not, when i played Bretonnia in warhammer 1, i had some of them in my late game armies sorely in order to both deal with the Hellcannons (which they proved to be surprisingly efficient at killing in melee.) Better yet, since they are shit units, they reduce the threat level of your army and makes for perfect material to bait the A.I. into attacking your army outright (whereas with better unit it could've avoided you.) 14th *Clanrats* Not gonna argue with the cost efficiency comparison with the Skavenslaves. It's self-explanatory. But i'm going to point out that, over time with researches and skills, both units gets a significant improvment to their respective role : Skavenslaves can replenish extraordinarily fast while costing absolutely nothing in terms of upkeep, while Clanrats end up gaining the _"Expendable"_ trait and become more reliable in melee - not simply stalling anymore but actually scoring hits on the ennemy. It ultimately comes down to _"what kind of meatshield you want to field"_ and constructing your army around that choice (which is very Skaven like and i'm fine with that.) 13th *Corpse Cart* I am in total agreement. No argument there. 12th *Bloated Corpse* Big disagreement. Bloated Corpses are like mini-doom rockets : it kills everything in a radius around it. With proper placement and planning, it is possible to lure multiple ennemy infantry units into blobbing against one of your -inexpensive- zombie mob and then having it rush there, murdering everything in a blast. If anything, it's the one unit that encourages you the most to use your zombies as bait against elite infantry units, only to have a whole chunk of them getting blasted into oblivion by the warhammer version of the Left 4 Dead "Boomer." Additionnaly, though it is a minor point, the Vampire Coast do have a retainer obtained through research that gives the _"Stalk"_ trait to an unit equipped with it. I leave the rest to your imagination. 11th *Cold One Knights and Dreadknights* Total agreement there too. 10th *Bastiladon* I wouldn't exactly say that the Bastiladons aren't useful. While it is true that Stegadon are factually stronger than Bastiladons, it's true purpose consist in facing off the strongest units of the ennemy armies - ergo, being an anti-elite unit. So when your Stegadon end up being charged and/or bogged down by low-tiers units, even when winning you actually end up losing the exhange because the A.I. makes you waste a good unit against bad ones. The Bastiladon on the other hand is still a monstruous unit, causing _"Fear"_ and _"Terror"_ with insane amount of armor, a small missile resistance and a dedicated armor-piercing anti-infantry melee, all at a cheaper price. In short : it's a perfect anti-low tiers unit. The "Ark of Sotek" variant screams "anti-Expendable" to me ; the "Solar Engine" variant can actually out-perform the Stegadon when it comes to dealing with units that have very high physical save and/or are vulnerable to fire, on top of debuffing their melee for a while ; Finally, the _"Revivification Crystal"_ still do give you multiple equivalent uses of _"Invocation of Nehek"_ for no winds of magic cost, AT ALL (and you can combine it with a Slann of Life to make it even more powerful.) Honestly, give them a try. With research and skills, you will be surprised at how good they can perform for their cost. 9th *Hawk Riders* I haven't played enough with those units to give a proper answer. So i'll pass. 8th *Slayers* I completely disagree. Your argument consist in considering ALL Dwarven infantry unit as tanking units - units that takes a beating more than they give - and never diverging from that assumption. Slayers are infantry unit that discard defense (and as such tanking) completely in favor of overwhelming offence : they strike fast (for a dwarf) and strike hard. They're not made to wait for the ennemy and hold the line : they wait for the monsters, cavalry, chariots and ennemy Lords on mount to come close and massacre them. In fact, you won't find any other unit as punishing to ennemy flying unit than Slayers when it comes to attacking the dwarven artillery and missile units from above. So much so that i find myself recruiting Slayers more often than i recruit Irondrakes with Troll torpedoes. 7th *Carrion* Anti-artillery. And that's litteraly it because the Tomb Kings are overall slow as fuck - only the Carrions have the speed and melee demage to reliably destroy ennemy artillery (apart from your own artillery.) 6th *Trolls* Not gonna argue there. 5th, 4th and 3rd *Giants* And here we have it : the one unit pretty much everyone agree on saying that it's universally crap. (Which is kind of an accomplishment in and of itself, come to think of it...) 2nd *White Lions of Chrace* Again, i am in full agreement. 1st *War Wagon* Amen to that. Worst part is, if at least kitting was working properly and you could order your unit to target and keep on shooting at one specific unit, instead of having your unit change targets to the closer one to itself as soon as you order it to move, it would be bearable. Not good but bearable. But the skirmish system is so shit in this game and the damage output of the war wagon so ridiculously low, that it's just not worth it. Period.
"order your unit to target and keep on shooting at one specific unit" My skirmishers tend to keep the target they were ordered before they got move order.
I agree with the anti-artillery for mounted yeoman, but, as legend said they are made a bit redundant by the archer version which will probably do just as good a job against artillery...
@@rorynell4962 The archer version isn't actually better in that scenario. True they do shoot from a distance but, one, the damage output is very low so it takes a lot of shots to be effective and, two, it doesn't prevent the artillery crew from firing while being peppered with arrows. Meaning that you need to physicaly engage the artillery crew in melee to obtain the desired result (stopping artillery) and the basic melee variant is simply better suited to that end that the archer version.
This is why unit caps for all is the only unit cap mod that works and the only way to play the game for me. If the correct play is to not use a unit, to not experience a piece of content designed by the devs, then something has gone wrong. That's just my personal preference and I can well see how other players enjoy the feeling of understanding the game well enough to know which units to avoid, but that isn't for me - I want every single unit in my faction's roster playing a significant role in my armies. I want to feel grateful when I find that I still have capacity to recruit more Bastiladons when I hit my limit for Stegadons. I want to have to use mounted yeomen cav to fill out my bretonnian armies with cav while I try to increase my caps for knights.
Update on the War Wagons: They got a buff and their ranged damage went from 33 to 55, which is a big increase...but it's still nowhere near enough. 1 unit of Outriders have a total of 1980 missile damage (per 10 seconds), 1 unit of war wagons have 220 missile damage, meaning that it would take exactly 9 units of war wagons (36 wagons total) to match the missile damage of ONE unit of Outriders. They are also MORE expensive. Compare that with Scourgerunner Chariots, that cost only 100 more (850 vs 950) that have more range, more damage, a huge bonus vs large and can actually be used as real chariots. It has 90-ish missile damage with a whooping +40 anti large, meaning that it has 2.5 times the ranged damage when shooting at large AND better melee stats. Yes, they are 100 more expensive, but they are also twice as valuable.
Hope they make white lions useful in the high elf dlc we ought to be getting. One of my favorite looking units, been disappointed with their performance since I first used them on release.
Tbh all I hear is "legendary sucks". Simple reason: there are units that have a specific task that they do well. But on legendary, only ranged and cav and chariots and monsters do anything. Even the best in-game melee melt against worse units. Fuck legendary battle difficulty. I refuse to cheese.
@@helikos1 Yeah, like for example the btas from VC, trash unit, generally speaking. No armor, melts under arrow, or gun, fire. But it has 55 melee defense. Almost no archer unit in the game can shake them off, once they're in melee, you need a second unit to get them off. But on legendary? might as well have 25 melee defense, because they melt. Same thing for carrion, 46 melee defense. Ain't no early game archer unit that can shake 'em off.
@@totally_not_a_troll I wonder what the optimal difficulty is. You know how in Halo Heroic difficulty is considered the 'canon' difficulty. I doubt CA make the game with legendary difficulty in mind, if you know what I mean.
@@helikos1 Can't say I could care less about "cannon difficulty". I like balance first and foremost. That is why dark souls is great, and most souls-like games are horrible. I would rather the AI be smarter, or if lacking that, simply have more units than me, and more upgraded units. But making the stats of my units useless is horrible. The enemy having inferior units, that completely mow down my objectively superior units - is not fun. Having melee units be almost useless - is not fun. Having ranged, artillery and _SOME_ monster units be the only consistent and reliable units - is not fun. Having units that, without modifying stats, are useful and have a purpose (carion, bats) ... turn into absolute trash junk - is not fun. Imho I'd rather have the campaign AI just have even more bonuses and keep battles on normal difficulty. I do play on legendary campaign because I'm a compulsive save scummer and I need to remove that possibility. But even that is full of bullshitterry. AKA the "everyone will declare war on you, for no good reason" mechanic.
I wouldn't mind it if they buffed Bloated Corpses so that they just annihilate basically anything. I want to feel real fear when I see one coming towards my army.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 If it's going to take a spot on the roster, from a gameplay perspective it shouldn't be useless. Besides, it's not just a bloated corpse, it's a magically animated bloated corpse with some kind of magical explosion effect.
I'd argue against Bloated corpses, so long as the enemy is blobing up (which, it's AI, they always do) then one corpse can get around 120-140 kills and inflict around 6-10k damage. That is FAR more effectiveness than Vampire Coast's typical frontline units and they are both cheap to recruit and upkeep. You may have lost a unit but when you paid pennies for it and have raise dead to fill the hole it left in your army, I don't see what's wrong with them over a unit like Deck Droppers with Pistols, a unit that deals embarrassingly low damage and kills in general thanks to MP nerfs. And they can't even lord snipe.
I'm with you on this, especially early on in the campaign. The thing can wipe out 2-3 full units if it's well-placed. I always get more than 100 kills with a bloated corpse against the AI and, as long as it gets that many kills, it doesn't matter that it's gone because you can immediately raise a new one after the battle. Deck Droppers though... never found a use for them.
I've only started playing Warhammer 2 (having lots of hours into Shogun 2 though). Bloated corpse seems like it could be valuable as you say, especially if the terrain causes enemies to run around an obstacle and usually results in them bunching up. That's very situational though, often tend to forget I have these things in my team and I'll be watching my frontline charge into theirs along with the bloated corpses and having them blow up my frontline... Sad times
@@snazwonk2066 the problem is it still does not do enough damage to equal its value, unless it hits elite infantry. I say the blast radius should go up a bit. At the very least it makes it scary and a good "distraction carnifex".
There is one good use for Carrion. Against Dark Elves they can be used to neutralise Reaper Bolt Throwers which can be pretty deadly. Also against Beastmen they are surprisingly good at tying down Cygors - not good at killing them, mind you, but they are able to keep them from attacking your army for long enough for you to finish off the rest of the Beastmen. So yes they are terrible, but against Beastmen and Daek Elves it can be worth it to have one unit in your army just in case.
Slayers are amazing when you don't attack the enemy. Once the enemy army breaks you chase them down with fast forwarded jiggling death machines. That boosts my morale.
I think that isn't the point. On legendary, you want armies that can perform their worth for multiple battles and if you use a bloated corpse it has 0 value for battle number 2. There are some circumstances where bloated corpses can definitely get their worth *for that battle* but you want armies that have staying power.
Or you could use a spell to do the same thing at no cost. Another weakness of the bloated corpse is the off chance that as it is charging the enemy lines, it gets nicked by a few pointy sticks and blows up closer to your line, basically opening up the chokepoint for the enemy.
Having played every faction on TW, i have to agree with everything here, except bloated corpses. Not only those dudes rock damage-wise, they are also hilarious to include in the army, can be recruited everywhere, and are vital in surviving the first couple dozen turns as a pirate faction - comp tends to declare war on you with much stronger units, like lizardmen or HE stuff that makes your zombie mobs just melt. Given many water/swamp maps have a bottleneck in the middle (that also slows units down), you can easily take out 2+ high tier units with one bloaded corpse if you sneak it behind a tarpit zombie mob. Also..they belly flop in the enemy in true rockstar fashion. 'Nuff said.
Absolutely agree with this comment, i usually keep 2 bloaters in my armies and re-recruit them after each battle. There have been many times when I cheesed the AI into blobing up their high tier melee into one of my heroes and then one corpse would do absolutely stupid amount of damage outpaying most everything I could have thrown at the enemy in early-midgame.
Bloated Corpses are quite useful as a surgical strike. The Vampire Coast armies suffer from a few weaknesses, primarily being a lack of strong front-line melee units (that come at a decent cost), so being able to cripple one or two of the enemy's front-line melee troops before they clash, can turn the tide (pun intended) of a battle in your favour, even from some rather painful odds otherwise. Primarily, they're very useful if you're already not doing super well compared to your opponents, tech wise.
LoTW: Clanrats are the worst, worse than skavenslaves and there is no reason to EVER recruit them. Also LoTW: Welcome to the first 20 turns of legendary skaven, so first off we wanna move Queek and start recruiting clanrats.
Hey Legend, i kinda like Mounted Yeoman in the early game tho. I use them as Carcassonne vs Skaven because they have vanguard deployment and they can keep the artillery busy pretty good. They are also good at sniping archers in the back and since they are really fast you can also use them to bait out AI units (allthought the archer variant is better at it).
Just starting my first ever play through in this game as High Elves, and I can say this: White Lions are horrendous, and I’m infuriated the Vortex campaign requires you to recruit them for a quest. Regarding Great Eagles, I love using them to flank opposing artillery. Gives me time at the start of battles to advance my infantry safer, and sometimes draw opposing forces back giving me a better chance to secure high ground locations.
eh probably not when it comes to all the giants since they still suffer from being such easy slow targets. they just have no real value when just about any kind of artillery will always out preform them
I've found the bloated corpse to be pretty good actually in battles with large amounts of trees in protecting Artillery lines keep him far enough away that if he keeps focused down by skirmisher cav he doesnt kill your own but close enough that he takes care of any flankers
The upkeep of Slayers can be halved with a follower. They are extremely strong against enemy lords and so are very effective against vampire counts. You can send 3 or 4 slayers against Manfred, and he will die in about 20 seconds they will also push trough most of the enemies easily.
Used to go with Bastilodon Solar engines as my go-to choice for Lizard artillery. After switching to Stegadons, have to admit, it really is the better choice. The amount of friendly fire incidents has dropped dramatically, which all my Carnosaur-mounted heroes and lords were grateful for, and even when the enemy made it into melee, the Stegadons have held the line far more reliably too.
