Greeting! I would like to refer you to one of the most beautiful Orthodox works in my opinion, namely the book "Prayers by the Lake" by Bishop Nikolaj Velimirovic. I hope that the translator managed to express the Orthodox symbols expressed in the Serbian language in which the book was originally written. It is my great desire to present to the Western world Bishop Nikolai as one of the greatest clergymen of my people and of general Christianity. Since the channel itself is related to symbolism, I think that the works of Bishop Nikolaj are a great addition to the Symbol of Life, and also to this channel. I wish you the Love of God and the Blessing of God in the hope that you will not ignore my proposal. Peace to all!
in my humble opinion the most beautiful music for the introduction was from the early clips :). i miss that sound! but these are less important things. I would like to thank Jonathan for his dedicated work and wish you much of God's wisdom and God's Blessing in the future. Thank you for sharing knowledge and effort. May God keep your heart and eyes clean so that you do not sin, but teach in the light those who ask you to do so!
Thank you gentlemen, I was just baptized this Palm Sunday, and this is my first Holy Week where I can fully attend every service, so this is very timely! God is with us! By the way, I wouldn't have been baptized without Johnathans work, truly he is calling many of us to the church with a clear voice. Thank you! God is with us!
Romam Catholic Churches still do the veiling of all the statues and the slow unveiling of the Cross on Good Friday, with that exact hymn you mentioned. We kiss the crucifix at the end, too. The veiling in our diocese actually began on Passion Sunday (Palm Sunday) and ended @ Easter Vigil. ETA: The Medieval custom about building a "tomb" for Jesus might be also the origin of the Catholic custom of carrying the Blessed Sacrament in a solemn procession to the "Place of Repose" (sometimes called "Monument"), which is a place especially built for it, similar to a Tabernacle, but portable, and located outside of the church. The Tabernacle at the church remains empty until Easter Vigil.
@Vince Perri Yeah that's a real problem how they just refer to the West, but their "West" is pretty much just North America (Americentrism much?) and so they talk like it's all protestantism, forgetting the other half of the West that is in Europe and is mostly Catholic and so, liturgical.
@Vince Perri interesting, intellectually I haven't come across any Catholics in the anglosphere that could compare to what's coming out of these Orthobros, besides Bishop Baron I guess, would you include him in that liturgical resurgence?
@@AugustasKunc Dr Brant Pitre would be a good guest to discuss (not debate) liturgy and symbolism in the Bible from the Catholic side. The Meaning of Catholic channel is interesting too
In keeping with the marriage theme of this video, the newly baptized/chrismated are processed in a circle. If I understand correctly, only at this sacrament and at weddings and ordination does this circle procession occur. This is very timely for me, because this Holy Saturday is my day to process in a circle and it all started with my first Pageau video a little over a year ago.
I used to love your videos, Bob! 4 years ago I, my husband and our sons were Chrismated. It has been the greatest blessing of our lives. God's blessings to you!
In regards to the napkin being folded. There is a story that, traditionally, when the master of the house was finished with his meal, he would crumple his napkin when he left. This would signify the end of the meal to the servants. If he left it folded, it meant he would return.
I read that another aspect of the cursing of the fig tree has to do with the fruiting habits of the fig trees of that area. The text states that the fig tree had leaves, but no fruit; according to what I read, this is abnormal, as the fig tree should have begun producing fruit at the same time it started leafing. So for it to have leaves but no fruit was akin to the fig tree putting on a show but having nothing to offer, a lie of outward appearances covering up an inward lacking.
I have read a wonderful explanation for the folded "napkin" that was placed over Christ's face in the tomb. It comes from Jewish table manners 1st century AD. If the person eating had finished, he would throw away the napkin scrunched up as a signal to the servers to clear his plate. If however he intended to return to the meal, he folded it. Anyone from this culture would have instantly understood Christ's message "I'm not done here, I'll be back. "
My lifelong protestant father, who became a pastor a few years back, mentioned this in his Easter sermon. I had never heard it before and am always impressed at the depth of layers of Christ's symbolism in Jewish culture & law.
"Thy Bridal chamber I see adorned, O my Savior, And I have no wedding garment that I may enter, O Giver of light, enlighten The vesture of my soul, and save me." Have a blessed Holy Week everyone!
Around 37:45 "If there is a true pattern you will find it in the story of Christ... there is no pattern that is true that will not be in His story" That is very useful in understanding the correspondences that one may find between Christianity and other religions.
To answer what you were saying around 51:20 with regards to veiling in the Catholic Church, we continue to veil statuary and icons, especially the crucifix behind the altar. We do it at the novus ordo parish we usually go to.
Also yeah we still do adoration of the cross on Good Friday where the priest says exactly what you described and the cross is unveiled after which we kiss it. I'll stop posting as I'm watching now lol
Actually, in traditional Catholicism (pre-Vatican II) we move the Blessed Sacrament to a side altar on Holy Thursday. On Good Friday we celebrate the Adoration of the Cross (unveiling and kissing it, just as Richard described), and at Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday all icons are unveiled for the first time in Lent.
I thank the both of you wise men deeply. I was just catechized three weeks ago into a Russian Parish and attended my first Resurrection Liturgy Saturday Night. It was an astonishing and beautiful, transformative service. It was truly beyond words. Thank you for pulling me in gentlemen.
As someone who can't attend Orthodox services but wants to, I find these episodes on the liturgy to be really wonderful and wholesome Also, one of my favourite renditions of the intro music so far
That very thing is discussed in The Lord of Spirits podcast, episode "The Gods of the Nations". It sounds to me like Richard was referencing that episode. It is a good listen!
I loved this discussion! Jonathan and Richard, the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem and part of the Patriarchate of Antioch still have the foot-washing ceremony on a parish level.
51:40 we still unveil the cross with this exact invocation in the Roman Catholic rite. Most of the practices you describe as being in Late Mideval England are still practiced today.
What an eye opener. Thank you guys.. awesome! The two of you have helped greatly to ,yes Johnathan, to hold it in your mind long enough to really look at it Thank you
Girard, jung, Weinstein etc and a lot of modern thinkers give us real insight into the world view of fallen humanity and not humanity meant for glory. Marriage over murder
Greeting! I would like to refer you to one of the most beautiful Orthodox works in my opinion, namely the book "Prayers by the Lake" by Bishop Nikolaj Velimirovic. I hope that the translator managed to express the Orthodox symbols expressed in the Serbian language in which the book was originally written. It is my great desire to present to the Western world Bishop Nikolai as one of the greatest clergymen of my people and of general Christianity. Since the channel itself is related to symbolism, I think that the works of Bishop Nikolaj are a great addition to the Symbol of Life, and also to this channel. I wish you the Love of God and the Blessing of God in the hope that you will not ignore my proposal. Peace to all!
Merci Jonathan and Richard. J'ai participé à la liturgie du Jeudi Saint a comme 'apotre" pour le rituel du lavement des pieds par le prêtre. Cette un honneur énorme. Le vendredi Saint pour la procession et l'adoration de la croix il y a un rituel selon le quelle le prêtre doit enlevez ces chaussures avant embrasser la croix, très intéressant !!
I am unconvinced that Girard is wrong and I think it’s really important and helpful to gain the insight the pattern he identifies offers. Girard’s scapegoat theory is not about the reasons a group comes together in the first place … its about the founding myths and sacrifice that enable a primitive group to hold together and grow beyond a certain size after the mimetic desire and conflict has threatened to tear it apart. Your guest also doesn’t explain why human sacrifice was so central and common which is where Girard started. It offers an alternative interpretation of the myths but not the necessity of violent rites that are within them. I really find your thoughts on technology and civilization so fascinating and relevant. I would like to hear you talk to someone who applies Girard rather than argues against it. The patterns he pulls out of the bible and new testament really deepened my faith and helped me so much in identifying how mimetic desire affects me and leads me to sin.
Jonathan and Richard start to tie the whole thing together by the end, though I'm not sure that Richard recognized the full implications when he said, "Self-sacrifice is the kind of sacrifice that is the basis of marriage." What I'd argue is that marriage, /in its fullest Christian context/, is the answer to the problem the scapegoat was intended to solve, while ancient marriage was often simply one more expression of the scapegoat principle. At its heart, the scapegoat principle is based in the intuition that it's possible to derive group unity from the sacrifice of a single individual. Tribal concepts of marriage still sort of did that -- one family would effectively sacrifice their daughter to another to unite the two families together, and the ceremony in which that was done would have almost certainly involved some sort of sacrifice to bring about the formation of a covenant relationship. The Roman concept of the king consummating a relationship to the city, as represented by a Vestal virgin -- a woman who was supposed to be killed if she lost her virginity -- suggests a scapegoating influence to that, too. And it would make perfect sense if the prevalence of rape in the ancient myths of city formation reflected the intuition that marriage was, in a sense, the sacrifice of a virgin. Christianity, in its ancient context, /rewrote marriage/. Christ as Bridegroom sacrifices himself to call forth a dynamic of mutual self-sacrifice, where unity is derived not from the sacrifice of the physical life of one for the group, but rather from the sacrifice of the whole self of each for the other. Marriage was reconfigured from a sacrifice where two /groups/ sacrifice one (regardless of how she felt about the matter) to produce unity into a sacrifice where two /individuals/ willingly sacrifice /themselves/ to become one. And in that sense, the pattern and counter-pattern discussed by Girard seems to hold perfectly.
The bit about unveiling and kissing the feet of Christ on the cross made me think of the story of Ruth and Boaz! She uncovers his feet at after a harvest dinner, but the marriage can’t be consummated until he has redeemed her from the one who has a close claim.
My parish (Catholic) does some similar things as in your Orthodox Churches (foot washing, cross veneration (kissing of the cross, watching over the tomb). I think some the readings may be different but we go through the same moments of the Passion. The opening chant on Holy Saturday in my parish was amazing as if it we were walking into the tomb with Christ. Thank you for this video, Jonathan. Holy Week and Eastern Octave is beautiful time. I believe there is another vigil for our parish this Saturday. Also, we renewed our vows (Baptismal and Confirmation) which was beautiful furthering adding to symbolism of Christ wedding the Church.
The Lenten veiling of the Church crucifix with purple cloth is standard in Portugal. Even outside the church, some people veil the images. They also 'buried' the Eucharist for 3 days in the Cathedral of my city.
45:50 Another interesting layer of that story is that the person who strips naked and runs away is called a “young man,” and the only other time that Greek word for “young man” is used in St. Mark’s gospel is when a “young man dressed in a white robe” proclaims that Jesus has risen. It’s a powerful connection if you ponder it.
I'm Roman Catholic ('novus ordo') and we have always veiled the holy images with purple cloth (the penitential colour used in Lent and Advent). On Good Friday the priest processes with a cross and intones that hymn three times, consecutively at higher pitches. After the service (Mass of the pre-Sanctified), there is adoration of the cross where you venerate the cross with a kiss or some other suitable way. The veiling of the images generally begins on the fifth Sunday of Lent which starts off 'Passiontide,' the last two weeks of Lent.
When y’all talked about the removal of garments and the symbolism in it, it immediately reminded me of the stoning of St. Stephen where Saul is holding the garments of the Jews who stoned Stephen. The stoning of Stephen is meant to mirror the murder of Christ. He is the first martyr and he sets the standard for the Christian life moving forward. It struck me because it was an odd detail. It fits though.
Wow wow!!! Excellent insight. I knew it meant something; but was not sure. I think you hit the nail on the head with this observation. Thanks for taking the time to share it. !!
@@jeremybridges6015 Christ says to Saul, “Saul, why do you persecute me?” I think the fact that Our dear Paul is the man standing red handed with the garments is relevant to his chief of sinners title.
In Jewish culture it meant that the person holding the garment was actively participating in the stoning, not just a bystander. Paul was authorizing the stoning of Stephen by holding his garments.
Dear Richard , you don't need to be flamboyant or controversial to create and impact fo good. Jesus being meek and mild has changed us for good. Thank You both for all this wonderful talks, God bless
Thanks for your wisdom and insights Jonathan. Would love to hear you speak of the story of Judges 11, the idea of sacrifice and what the story tells about the daughter of Jephthah.
About 51:15, I'm a Catholic who attend Novus Ordo and, at least in my country, it's a common practice to cover images at beginning of lent and uncovering the cross just as you described.
Fr. Thomas Hopko’s teaching that Christ, like Moses, Isaac & Jacob, found His bride (as in Hosea, a woman of reputation) as a well has helped to deepen this bridegroom theme. Thanks for this. You might find an exploration of the theme of Christ the Bridegroom in Lutheran hymnody an interesting research.
the folding of the shroud is a symbol of coming back for more. i've heard it said that when i am in the middle of feasting and have to leave i will fold my napkin to symbolize that "i will be coming back for more." when i was finished, the napkin would be bundle up on the empty plate. what do you think ?
26:36 there is a beautiful line in the Dao te ching where it says something like: if an inferior man encounters the Dao he will surely mock it. If he hadn't it wouldn't have been the Dao.
As to the "napkin" across Christ's face as he lay in the tomb, I was told that in Jewish culture you would do one of two things with a napkin when you left the table: 1) if you were not returning, you would just wad it up and leave it on the table, but 2) if you were coming back, you would fold the napkin neatly. Thus, Christ is signaling that He will be back.
Roman Catholic, Poland: we still build in a church a Christ's tomb - whe don't have an icon but there is a figure of Christ in the tomb, veiled and lots of decoration like flowers, rocks, sometimes it is beautiful sometimes a bit too much. At the end of Good Friday there is a procession which carry Blessed Sacrament to the tomb and it stays there veiled until Sunday early morning. We even have something like roman guardians of the tomb - local firefighters :) Also during Holy Thursday there is a moment when the music in the church stops - no organs, no bells, only wooden clappers, singing a cappella. It is like this up to Saturday night - Gloria if I remember correctly. And we have something like a dungeon - after Holy Thursday evening liturgy there is a procession which carry Blessed Sacrament from the Tabercle to a special place that symbolize Prison - there is an image of Christ but covered with bars. Unveiling of the Cross - that hymn is repeated three times. Then people go to adorate the Cross - they kiss pierced legs. Saturday morning - we bless our Easter breakfast - we bring baskets with food to the church. And we start celebrating ressurection during Saturday Evening and this is my favorite part of Triduum because it is so mystical and joyful at the same time. Hearing "Exultet"... I love Easter. It is so rich in symbolism and meaning. There is a lot of singing for a choir member but at least the songs are beautiful.
Very clever! When reading Girard, I had the sense that his argumentation was incomplete. Although, he made a very good work developing his view on Christianity from an anthropological perspective.
@50:56 for us Western Rite Orthodox, we continue the veiling of icons and the cross. Some parishes do all their icons, others may just only cover the cross and crucifixes and other symbols, especially ones on the altar.
The folded linen napkin left in the Christ’s tomb was interpreted as he’s coming back. Also, our Catholic Church has a night watch on Good Friday after our service at a portable altar in the rear of the church.
Hi Jonathan, Just noticed the second talk about the Quest of the Holy Grail is missing from the "Universal History" Playlist, the video named "The Search for the Holy Grail | pt.2 | with Richard Rohlin" Could you also include it later on the playlist?
In our Ruthenian Catholic Church our catechumens get baptized during Saturday Vespers Liturgy. We welcomed one in last Saturday, the evening before Pascha. She wore traditional brown as a catechumen, brown cloak just before baptism and white right after.
Excellent discussion! Thank you! I would like to suggest that the top of the hierarchy isn't self-sacrifice, but is actually submission to the Father. Which is often expressed as self sacrifice. Because God is the very top, but in relation to him, the perfect peak of the hierarchy is a posture (humility/submission) rather than a tool (self sacrifice).
😂🤣Potiphar was the captain of Pharaoh’s guard… off protecting the King, which makes his wife’s creeping behind his back all the more hilarious in a “did the Bible just throw shade?” Kinda way.
In the West, we do the washing of the feet on Thursday. I'm Roman Catholic and my parish veils all the crucifixes during Lent. On Good Friday we sing a hymn about beholding the wood of the cross on which hung our salvation, then we take a very large cross and place it in front of the altar where we kneel before it, touch it, and kiss it.
Richard Rohlin about the folded napkin, in jewish tradition this way the servants would understood that The master is not finished with his meal (his business), he will be comming back to continue (the second comming). I heard this from "One for israel" channel.
Excellent discussion. Very insightful. Particularly the tomb also being the bridle chamber. Which I had heard before now. But never really got the fuller significance of. Also the thought of it all coalescing around the ‘Passion’. The ‘removal of garments’. For both thoughts can of course be linked to mere sex. Rather than a holy relationship higher purpose joining. As if the whole thing hinges on the ultimate transmutation of an otherwise typical ‘sexual impulse’ expressed to bring about a ‘lower order of reality’. Aka ‘mis-creation’, aka through a physical woman. A Mrs the ‘Mark’ of Perfect Spiritual Creation of God’s One Son Pattern. To ‘Drag-On’ time & delay of The Groom some more. In continuing debasement of what it was all ultimately for. To something better. A more controlled, aware & transformed. To a higher ‘miracle impulse’. A miracle mirror mind & HeArt call to His Bride to bring about a manifested from within Herself of a ‘higher order of reality’ from Christ. Namely God’s One Pattern of A Son. Now to rule as also King. Really enjoyed the conversation guys. Many thanks. Paul
@3:50 I got it. It's a positive perspective on life, not a negative one, which is the most beneficial definitor of the aspects of life. "not those" isn't the best social structure... "These" is. because it is both *choice* AND it is OF something good.
Hi Jonathan, I love your videos. I am wondering if you could do a video suggesting what it means to rebuild the Garden, or God's Kingdom in 2022? How can we act in the world to bring about God's heaven? I understand this should be a prayer rather than a question but I'd love to hear your outlook on this! God Bless you, Jonathan All Praise to the Most High
i’m still at the start, but what about the nuance that murder is the Fallen cultural basis and marriage is the Kingdom/intended cultural basis? both seem to exist in juxtaposition.
The face cloth in which he had been buried was “folded up in a place by itself.” Could this be a symbol of how Jesus was often not recognized *by his face but by other means* in his post-Resurrection appearances?
Thank you both for sharing these marvellous observations. I’m really blown away and will re-watch this several times I think. Around 8mins in Richard references a historian on sacred kingship and the link between founding the hearth and Kingship. Who is he referencing here? I don’t think the name is mentioned.
About Joseph, and parallels, even though the brothers sold Joseph into Egypt, when the Jewish people leave Egypt they take his remains with them. They take him out of Egypt to the promise land with them.
Maybe this question has been asked before; if so, my apologies for the redundancy. I've watched all the "Universal History" videos, but I certainly haven't looked at all the comments. For some reason this one especially has me wondering: how do ancient Far Eastern nations/people groups, such as those in India, China, Japan, etc., fit into the U.H. story? Is it just that, given enough time and saturation in the arc of Christendom, they would create/discover their own place in that story, and the narrative details thereof? Maybe that last question opens up a difficult subset of questions, regarding whether the "writing" of U.H. continues to the present day. For instance, is it yet to be seen what place, if any, contemporary cultures in the Americas have in the story? What about pre-Columbian cultures? Perhaps I'm trying to bring too many disparate things in relation to one another...Perhaps I'm missing the point of U. H. entirely. Any thoughts from anyone would be appreciated.
