I’m just an old lady with lots of lived experience and no training. What I see here is Charlie doing what I used to do with my kids or husband, or friends or…. I would accept the way they were feeling BUT I still needed them to feel what I was feeling and why. That never went well. When someone is hurting let them hurt and give them validation and trust them to figure it out. Let them hurt without trying to make your point. Sorry Charlie. I love both of you and have never commented but felt very compelled to comment this time. I’m looking forward to the resolution. And I really do love you both.
"It wasn't some stranger, it was an apostle" Wow that hit home for me. I wish you the absolute best in your journey wherever you may go Ben. This was a very eye opening conversation. Thank you as well for asking the tough questions and really reflecting. This was a really great episode.
Ben, I feel like since you have felt led to start dating, you are going through all sorts of emotional and spiritual challenges that are stretching you and that is painful and confusing. I really appreciate you being so vulnerable and allowing us to walk with you on this journey. Remember we are out here cheering you on as you become even more refined and glorious through this process. And Charlie, I thought several times during this, in a world that doesn’t allow men to express emotions, how beautiful it is to see two men supporting the emotions of one another with so much tenderness. You both are doing so much good. Sending you both love from Australia.
You both are wonderful. Such an excellent example of conversations that need to take place. I find validation feels the most genuine when it is centered around the person who is struggling and what they feel they can do to better handle the struggle. Turning the conversation to focus on someone else’s feeling and handling of the same situation can often feel more like advice and less like validation. Both advice and validation can be helpful and have their own place at the right time. ❤
Wow, I really like the authenticity here, and the fact that you guys are holding each other accountable a little bit. Really awesome format, very vulnerable, thank you for sharing. Ben, I really could feel your struggles.
I suspect there is some overthinking here in terms of the differences in your reactions to conference. The most fundamental difference, I think, is largely subconscious. Charlie has a full-time, supportive, and intimate partner while Ben does not have that kind of safety. Ben, your brain knows that you are vulnerable. Your psyche depends on more shallow, less permanent relationships for support. There is more risk for you. Just a suspicion.
I came here to say that and you already said it 😂. I think Charlie is more at peace with people rejecting him because he has a partner who knows him better than anyone else and fully loves and accepts him. If you have someone like that in your life, it's a lot easier to come to terms with rejection from others.
Thank you for bravely posting these discussion here where the rest of us can view them. It's very helpful hearing you discuss this things together in a loving and sometimes dissonant space. I'll make sure to tune in next week also :).
I think everything Charlie said is on point. As someone who has also had so much pain the past few conferences, this one felt like joy and hope. And I think the more you’re content with where you are, you’re not internalizing as much and filtering through every message to see something bad. I think there’s a lot of projection because they are both in different places. I don’t think anything he has said is bad. Or wrong. Charlie is finally in a good place and that’s okay!
I think the struggle for Ben is that he’s already feeling rejected and so he’s going to be on edge with this conversation and anything that doesn’t feel completely validating is going to hurt. We’ve all been there
As a completely deconstructed post LDS member I super appreciated your conversation, Ben I feel you and understand you and Charlie I love what you were trying to do, where you were missing the point is that I feel that you were apologizing on behalf of the leaders of the church and that is where things went wrong. Listening and reflecting back and validating pain and trauma can all be done without running defense for leaders that are not even running defense themselves. The leaders need to come to the table themselves and own the pain they are causing, no one can do it for them.
I agree. It seemed the most healing when Charlie simply validated the pain, without trying to help Ben understand or move through the pain. This part specifically 45:36 -46:12
Is there a possibility that Charlie’s view is different now because he is in love and married? When I got married, a lot of years ago, without even trying, my husband and I became one, I learned a lot about him and he learned a lot about me. My emotional pains became more bearable because of the immense love we have for each other. The love of others helps, however, the personal love, the love that is for me only, is that one changed me. Ben may be able to experience the switch in what is the most important thing in life, besides the love of Christ, when loving and being loved one on one, in a partnership. That is the main difference I see in you guys now. I hope I am clear on my idea.
I will be be so interested to hear what Charlie sees when he watches this back. As an outside observer it doesn't feel like there was validation. It seems like Charlie is being very defensive of the church. To say things like, it wasn't what was said at conference, it is how you perceived it is making it feel like the church us always right and if you dont perceive it that way then you need to reflect and fix yourself, not that the church needs to change or adjust what it is doing and saying. But we know from history that the church does get it wrong and does change. So to be so defensive of the church and the leaders at the expense of the heart of someone you know so deeply is very hurtful.
Your both at different points but I think that is a human experience. All of us don’t see things eye to eye and I think you’re showing everyone that it’s something all humans feel.
Is there a possibility that Charlie’s view is different now because he is in love and married? When I got married, a lot of years ago, without even trying, my husband and I became one, I learned a lot about him and he learned a lot about me. My emotional pains became more bearable because of the immense love we have for each other. The love of others helps, however, the personal love, the love that is for me only, is that one changed me. Ben may be able to experience the switch in what is the most important thing in life, besides the love of Christ, when loving and being loved one on one, in a partnership. That is the main difference I see in you guys now. I hope I am clear on my idea.
