Go to ground.news/plainlydifficult to give it a try. If you sign up through my link you’ll get 40% off the Vantage plan, which is what I use to get unlimited access to all features. I think Ground News is doing important work and I hope you’ll check them out. ►Thanks for watching, check out me other bits! ►My new EP: madebyjohn.bandcamp.com/album/retail-simulator ►Outro Song: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LJVNt_ruEJ0.htmlsi=KaHhrFbCex3kJBKk ►Instagram: instagram.com/plainly.john/ ►Patreon: www.patreon.com/Plainlydifficult ►Merch: plainly-difficult.creator-spring.com ►Twitter:twitter.com/Plainly_D ►Sources: www.legalscandal.info/ls_eng/tjorn_bridge_disaster.html www.legalscandal.info/ls_eng/Star_Clipper_Tjorn_1980.pdf www.bridgesofdublin.ie/bridge-building/disasters/tjoern-bridge-sweden-1980 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HCCI--2Dvow.html
you're so close to a million! fingers crossed by this time next week you'll be there! excellent video, tragic situation. I got no love for Iran but those people didn't need to die
@@skeetrix5577 the creator can’t be bothered to talk properly and it diminishes any points made during the content. It’s like Shakespeare read by Catherine Tate
Despite all the blacksmithing/metalworking shows and channels out there people still think steel isn't affected by temperature. It doesn't have to get that hot to reach the temp where internal stresses relax, not even to the point of changing color. Once you get there any structural strength it had is done. 1 floor buckling pulls a column out of plumb. Gravity takes care of the rest.
@@rcrawford42 hell yes, there are..... I vividly remember one blacksmith's "it's a frikking noodle" while bending a 3/4 inch steel bar at 700°C with his pinkie...
@@rcrawford42 Vacuous talk-show hosts are an example. Rosie O'Donnell once said on her show something along the lines of "Have you ever seen fire melt steel? I haven't" in relation to 9-11. Then their equally vacuous talk-show fans nod their heads without a thought, and there you are.
Yeah critical thinking is an endangered species. Why people think it has to be hot enough to melt for things to get to the point of collapse is beyond me. Just needs to get hot enough that weight and gravity overcome the weakened piece of metal.
I’m from Tehran and I still remember that sad day.😢 Not being concerned about buildings safety and cost cutting in choosing materials is common in Iran because of massive corruption in the system. RIP to all the firefighters that were trapped in the building. Thank you plainly difficult for making a video about Iran.
@@xxdesertstorm don’t you think that it’s because I’m not used to writing in English so I sound a little like robot when commenting something?😅 By the way why should someone use a robot to comment something like that😂
@@AnonymaxUK In Japan as well, It is pronounced "Shi" which is also the word for death. This is why they use the word "Yon" a lot of the time for the number 4.
I live in Canada, and in my condo they skipped the normal 13th floor, but also floors 4 and 14. My city has a large enough Chinese population that they didn't want to discourage them as potential buyers.
I always found this funny. It's like the gods of luck are so dumb they can't count? "Here, 4 is a bad number - let's call it a 5, and the "god of luck" will not take notice of this". So weird...
As an Iranian i still remember watching this and calling our relatives in the Capital and asking if anyone was around there, the loss of our bravest brothers, the firefighters, still pains our hearts to this day.
In a way it was his cosmic revenge/justice. What a disgusting thing to do to someone. They put him to death because of his religion. They should have let him leave. Truly disgusting people to do that. I hope someday the people of that country are liberated from their abusive government
@@Th3NoobSlay3r Indeed, he should have been allowed to leave. I will never understand people doing things like that regardless of what they rationalise it as.
I work in fire protection as a sprinkler fitter, seeing the change of fire protection over the years is very cool. It's a shame that so many people have lost their lives to get us to where we are. But recently people don't seem to appreciate or see the need for fire protection. Keep up the great work.
survivorsbias. Fires not that bad nowadays why invest in expensive intricate systems when a simple fire extinguisher can do the job //some lazy azz manager probably
Yea I was thinking its wild we had the audacity to build high rises without fire suppression systems and work in them with very flammable materials. I wish I could afford a fire suppression water line in my place but I do at least mount a fire extinguisher on my bedside.
You say “normally steel frame buildings are fairly resistant to fires”. As an architect/engineer, I would say the contrary. Steel is a bit of a headache when it comes to fire safety. It changes crystal structure around 400 degrees C, and this change produces deformation and significant loss of strength and stiffness. For that reason, structural steel cannot be used without additional fireproofing - and it’s always the additional fire-proofing which guarantees the 30mins, 60mins, 90mins of 2h of fire stability required. All structural steel is encapsulated one way or another if interior. In concrete, in plasterboard fireproofing, in thermal insulation, or in a neat little paint which foams up in case of fire, and transforms into an insulating layer. A side not to add: in Teheran, buildings are dimensioned for earthquake resistance. I’ve seen the quantity of steel used their construction, and it’s incomparable with the fairly minimalist structures you see in - for example - New York (purely dimensioned for load-bearing and wind). I’d expect steel structures dimensioned for severe earthquake resistance to be able to resist significant loss in strength without coming close to critical strength
I feel this needs more explanation. Those trusses (zig-zag bits) provide the same supportive strength as a heavier I-beam, meaning the cost is lower but also the weight of each floor is lower and can be supported with less vertical strength. Also, the ground can support a bigger building than might be possible. However, because the surface area to volume ratio is far greater, they are very prone to heat damage and begin to sag under the weight of the floor if there is an intense fire. Once one floor, or part of a floor collapses onto the one below, that floor has extra weight and if there is a fire below that, it too starts to sag then collapse. Once a enough floors have fallen those below will break even below the fire. This is what happened to the World Trade Centre building, although in that design the floors weren't as securely attached to the walls and pulled away from the walls, meaning the walls started bulging outwards increasing the strain on the join to the floor below. So that was a double affect. That meant each floor landing on the floor below which then fell and the walls effectively unzipped from the floors as that was happening. Also, the internal walls were sheet rock (plasterboard) so no other support right across the floor from one side to the other.
Really is amazing to think that most people believe that steel has to literally melt for a building to fail. It does pretty good early on, but once it gets above about 400-500 degrees C it goes down hill pretty fast. In that regard it’s amazing certain buildings that were the destination of a New York skyline one-way fare scenic tour so many years ago lasted as long as they did. Doesn’t matter what it’s made of, if it’s on fire, gtfo asap 🏃🔥
and yet many buildings in New york and else where have seen hot fires and didn't fail so aint that #COMMONSENSE a nice thing to use, its pretty moronic that you admit you were on a tour so really you only saw tourist bs 😂😂 go help Trump out as he needs that MAGA support 😂😂 #Biden2024
@@xxdesertstormI worked with structural steel. It does indeed fail long before it actually melts. BTW, politics has nothing to do with metallurgy and the OP's advice to gtfo if there is a fire, no matter how "fireproof" a building is touted to be, is very solid advice.
Hey look at that . A simple fire burned hot enough to weaken the steel which caused the top floors to collapse which resulted in the entire building collapsing and falling in on itself . Where have we seen that before ?
Yeah umm slowly and not in a complete straight line to the bottom at beeak neck speed while giving off sounds of explosions the entire time. 9/11 was an inside job and everyone knows it. Just ask the BBC anchors that day😅
All buildings have a limited lifespan, so they have to be designed to collapse in their own footprint with minimal use of explosives, rather than fall sideways, create a domino effect and bring half the city down. The WTC buildings presented a particular problem due to their close proximity with surrounding buildings. The system agreed was to blow the corners on the upper 2 floors. Since the concrete reinforced floors sat on welded fishplates, rather than run into the upright structure, the outer structure, along with the lift-shaft core would guide them down vertically. Halfway down the uprights at every floor level, an additional fishplate was added to fold the uprights inwards. The falling floors would act as a piledriver, so once triggered, no additional explosives would be required. On 9/11, everything worked perfectly, except the buildings were still full of people. The saddest part was that he emergency services had no idea what was about to happen. Like structural engineers sitting in offices all over the world watching this unfold, here in London their was nothing that we could do in time.
@@pjschmid2251 It's a bit like people in tower blocks with flammable cladding installed, the ultimate owner needs them to pay but they don't have the money and their homes are both a death trap and unsellable. UK Government was supposed to help but I wonder how many more Grenfell Towers are still out there
I believe there a saying in firefighter circles that goes "don't trust the trusses." They're extremely susceptible to warping and failure under high heat. It's what brought down the Twin Towers during 9/11. The floor trusses acted as bracing between the central core and the exterior shell of each building, giving the building the rigidity it needed to stay up. When enough floor trusses had failed during the fire, the building's structural rigidity had weakened to the point that the building could no longer support its own weight.
As a metallurgist and volunteer firefighter I could confirm that steel is extremely malleable. But what most folks don't know is so called "creeping". Metals can deform at only slightly elevated temperatures by only applying constant load, the higher the temp the faster it deform. And it doesn't even need to look like it have higher temp. It's actually used to deform some hard to deform metals like magnesium in production processes.
@@Christian-kl8dlor building 7 🤔... or the odd fact that hurricane was supposed to hit September 11.. how convenient for a cold front push out sea so New York had great visibility ..
@@Clearwater420 WTC 7 was built using the same engineering methods as the Twin Towers. The fire was started by flaming debris from the collapsing towers which also knocked out the water needed to put out the fire. The furnishings, carpeting, and anything else that could burn inside provided the truss-warping heat. Smaller scale, same outcome.
My father lives in Florida in a high-rise, senior living apartment building. I have sent him numerous links to your videos trying to get him to look in to his current building. He happens to be a building superintendent for that company. If anything goes wrong or if some inside info becomes available...I'll throw it your way Plainly D! You'll get the exclusive on that one
"Workers in the area attempted to put out the fire themselves, but it didn't work." Compare the fire on the liner "Morro Castle", in which exactly the same thing happened, and the ship ended up being burned out. Fortunately it happened close to the shore in mild weather, and many passengers just swam to land.
Morro Castle though had an advantage.... A ship's hull needs a hellacious blaze to get the hull hot enough to warp the hull seriously. This is because the water circulates to radiate heat away from the ship. Thus, the heat needs to be so hot it heats the metal faster than the water outside can circulate heat.
insufficient attention to older buildings is common across the world. One might believe that regulators/inspectors would pay close attention to buildings built in the 1950s and 1960s as they approach 5 or 6 decades in age, but sadly, no. Every safety regulation and standard is written in blood and even in societies that place a higher emphasis on safety are not immune to corporate negligence, government corruption, and general incompetence. In this case, it does not seem that the person who had it built was cutting corners--the building was very modern and well built for its time. But later "owners" simply did not care and there you are.
The owners wanted to bring it up to code ... it was the tenants who didn't want to be inconvenienced. Seems to be a general rule that no matter how worthy the project, there's always going to be somebody standing in the way. (See: Miami condo collapse.)
I was living in Philadelphia and working in Center City at the time of the One Meridian Plaza fire in 1991. The streets and surrounding buildings were closed for days afterward, because of visible structural damage on the fire-affected floors and fears of a collapse. Four firefighters died. And the only thing that stopped the fire were sprinklers installed by a tenant on one of the upper floors.
I parked my car in Finland's first fully steel framed parking garage (constructed circa 1980) for years. The process to get the thing up at all was an interesting one, of course with cars the potential fire heat loading is extraordinary. The construction company had to show in lab conditions that the coating on the beams would stand up to shocks, vibration, and of course heat. The stuff they chose was a mix of phenolic polymers and silica, which swells under heat loading and slowly ablates during a hot fire. I remember reading somewhere that the time to get to 600 degC had to be around one hour, plenty to get a good fire brigade response.
@@timhinchcliffe5372 Sprinklers would generally be optimal, but not for the specific parking garage I wrote about. The problem is that the structure wasn't heated at all, and southern Finnish winters have the temperature below freezing for close to 100 days every year, sometimes plunging to near -30 degC.
That's why insulation for the steelwork is absolutely mandatory, add to that the lack of fire suppression, and, well, that building was on borrowed time, steel softens when heated, hence why you can bend a steel rod easily when heated versus cold, so once fire breaks out, you may as well have used jelly as the framework...
yeah, the firefighters were all working the night shifts as firing squad.... as usual a bunch of innocent people die and the actual criminals got away..., karma doesn't work for shit
Steel skeleton structures are actually among the worst concerning fire resistance. Steel does not have to get very hot before losing most of its structural integrity; especially buckling resistance.
@@yodaslovetoy It won't. Especially the beams used in those towers - as they were specifically designed to withstand fire. -We will never let you get away with your lies. There is no running from the TRUTH, you Gooner.
Great video as always. It's always fascinating to see how advanced civilisations such as Iran and Iraq have fallen over the years. My parents went on their honeymoon there and said it was a beautiful place with beautiful people.
Your opening statement about steel buildings being fire resistant is incorrect. Steel is one of the least fire friendly structural materials. Wood and concrete are much better. Steel is resistant to burning, but not resistant to heat. Wood burns, but is actually very heat resistant as its char is a great insulator and the char on the outside protects the inside for quite a long time. Concrete tends to be quite good also. Steel needs extensive fire proofing coatings and such to be at all safe for any length of time in a fire.
The twin towers for example collapsed due to shoddy spray foam insulation of the steel frames which held the floors. The one world trade centre uses more concrete.
Steel is fire resistent because the temperatures have to get INSANELY hot to weaken the structure, far hotter than a wooden structure could ever withstand.
Sorry to break it to you, but if floor 4 was omitted, that would make floor 9 the 8th story, not the 10th. Note: In Iran, buildings sometimes omit the fourth floor due to cultural beliefs and superstitions surrounding the number four. The word for four in Persian, "چهار" (chahâr), sounds similar to the word for death in Persian, "چار" (châr). This phonetic similarity leads some people to avoid the number four in building floors, similar to the superstition around the number 13 in some Western cultures.
Same in Mandarin, which is why you almost never see a 4th floor in much of China. As a side note, I've lived in some very un-superstitious buildings; I spent my years in uni helping my notorious roomies give the 13th floor of the student co-op where we lived an even worse reputation than it already had, and I'm now living comfortably in Unit 13 of my current building. I also live with a black cat who enjoys breaking mirrors. ;)
Steel-framed buildings certainly do fail from fire. Any high-rise building with a hot fire involving more than two floors has failed, or needed to be razed. Steel doesn't just weaken in fire, it expands, distorting the frame
my thoughts exactly. And collapsed for the same reason: structural steel loses its integrity in severe heat even if it doesn't at first glance look affected.
WTC had steel and concrete on the outside, steel was thicker then the Iran building that collapsed had used, WTC Twin Towers was controlled demo'ed, people were reporting of explosions going down the tower even the Fire Rescue workers were reporting it too, also remember the Building 7 was brought down the same way several hours later.
I was told about this at the time by Iranian friends. You're right, from what I was told the country is beautiful, and depending on who you as, the people are friendly and they really, really, really make a big deal of their tea and the way I understand it having been told this by friends in Iran, your average Iranian on the street will invite you into their home, make you a cup of tea and treat you with kindness
The people are lovely. It isn't their fault that the USA destroyed their democracy just for the sake of Exxon and Shell... then replaced it with a murderous dictatorship which was subsequently overthrown by right-wing religious zealots who then built their own dictatorship because they had all the guns....
This is what I’ve heard as well. An acquaintance of mine did a charity project where he bicycled around the world, visiting nearly every country. He said the friendliest and kindest people he met were those of Iran. They welcomed him in their homes, fed him and made such a fuss being as hospitable as possible.
😂😂 yup RU-vid's failed to remove another Bot account, Iran is also a terrorist country who has more war crimes pending than RuZZia, Iran caused the war in Israel, Iran is nothing but bigots shall I go on, RU-vid keeps showing they fail to remove and block fake accounts
@@sarikagoode1505 no he didn't and using Chat-GPT needs to be a bannable thing WTF is wrong with RU-vid, Oh thats right its ran but the most useless people around now
BINGO CARD: I'd also add "Company Blames Victim" because of "...and although the owner, they claimed they weren't involved in the day-to-day running of the building, and thus the fire wasn't their fault."
I appreciate these ads for giving people a degree of hope and control during a time that probably felt wildly beyond all control for everybody held to the Whims of faceless governments who dgaf about actual people.
Gee, so many similarities to a couple of buildings in New York but I can’t remember which ones… and it’s crazy that this building didn’t even need to be taken down by planted explosives!
For centuries, blacksmiths have secretly been using oxyacetylene torches. They're part of a vast global conspiracy to conceal the truth about structural steel.
The World Trade Center collapsed for the same reason - the webbed joists the floor was supported by could not withstand heat or shockloading, resulting in the buildings coming down when floors collapsed.
@@thaismatsumoto Yes the flimsy spray on fire proofing was likely removed on the impacted areas by the planes ,the fire proofing was only designed to withstand a fire not impact by aircraft
About 20 ish years ago a company in Iran bought a kit car called Quantum H4 which was developed in the UK. It used all the grubby bits from a Ford mk3 fiesta and put it into a new fiberglass body. All the moulds, designs and paperwork records were sent to Iran. Everything. A new factory was set up and they started modifying the kit to accept the grubby bits from the Ford KA as they were more plentiful than the mk3 fiesta. Then the factory burnt down and collapsed. Everything was destroyed. Recently a H4 owner had several moulds made of his car so new panels could be made to repair the H4 cars that are still on the road in the UK.
From the title and thumbnail, I was sure this was going to be from Britain (and their Brutalist Soviet architecture) or Florida (and salty sea air causing corrosion). Never would have thought it would come from Iran, whose building inspectors' motto is "Inshallah."
Theres just something wrong when a country executes a builder then turns their building into a shopping mall. "Come to this dead guys, party every day!"
Yes. The floors were fastened to the inner and outer structural “tubes”, such that a failing floor pulled the outer walls inward, and the inner walls outward. Once the steel structure was pulled out of plumb it became incapable of supporting the massive weight of the building above.
Why are the weather reports from all over everywhere in these comments always a highlight of my week? Anyway, greetings from sunny, hot, and humid Toronto!
I was trying to imagine the thoughts of any fighters atop the water cannons as the collapse happened. (I believe a person or two are up there but do not know.) I seldom curse but that might get some words seeing it crash down as it could hit my crane and I would go down too.
Now I know why I never heard about this. We were "sitting shiva" (Jewish Mourning Practice) for our mom. She was almost 98 so it was more "natural" than bad, but she would definitely have called me to say it was G-d's punishment about the building. (I would disagree, because undoubtedly innocents unconnected with the IRGC would have died.)
I had a close friend in highschool whose family escaped from Iran before the Shah was overthrown. Her parents often spoke about how sad it made them to watch their country slip backwards. If you search pictures and articles about Iran pre-mid 70s, you'll see how beautiful the country actually is.
The lattices on the façade of the building are the summer heat protection system. It's called Pancara in some countries. It is very common not only in Iran but in Soviet Central Asia as well (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc etc). Winds circulating between and around bars of this external façade usually cool the building a bit in summer heat. However, sometimes it holds only purely decorative function.
PD, given how good you are at following interconnected types of disasters that share a common mode of failure, one that you should put on your list is "Steel Truss" construction. Or as you refer to them "open Web Joists". There have been a number of major incidents involving these, and how quickly they fail under fire load. With the most famous being the World Trade Center on 9/11. You actually make a common mistake in this piece where you claim that the fire was hot enough for the steel to soften. This is not what happened. This is not what ever happens. What happens is Horizontal Steel Trusses are by nature made out of disparate metals. Between the shape and construction of the trusses various parts of the truss will have different heat expansion characteristics. In a high heat fire environment this will be enough to cause the trusses to twist themselves into a helix shape, which then instantly fails at load bearing. They fail for the same reason your household thermostat works.But the key point is the heat does not need to be high enough to melt or soften steel. Just enough to trigger expansion of varying rates. Every warehouse fire, Big Box store, Auto Dealership, etc all uses these as a construction method. And they are among the greatest dangers to firefighters as they will fail suddenly with little warning. Steel Truss should never be used in a residential building. And as we saw with the WTC, building a skyscraper out of them was pure idiocy because of the risk under a fireload.
I love watching the thumbs up button on a new video. I tapped it at 840ish, half way through my watch its up past 1k. Every one earned. Keep up the good work!
Petersons Tower in SW Hampshire in England deserves to be more appreciated for being 150 years of age ,over 300ft in height ,still perpendicular & very stylish in design.
Anyone saying that misses several points, one being that the floors in the WTC were trusses (as shown in this video) not beams. See my other post for a more detailed explanation.
When you said "the tower lacked fire protection measures", I didn't expect that to extend to the complete absence of handheld fire extinguishers! That's what you meant at 8:01, right?
A garment factory, up some floors, workers try to put it out, lack of firefighting equipment. That part reminds me of the New York City Triangle Shirtwaist disaster, except that build held.
John, I adore your channel (and your music). Unfortunately for me, I think in ‘Murican and have to stop your video every single time you give a temperature in centigrade (or a measurement in meters) to look up the Imperial equivalent so I can gauge the scope of what you are describing. I wish I understood the metric system!!! If you think about it next time, perhaps you could flash the imperial measurement on the screen when you use the Metric System in your narration? I know it’s a lot of extra work but I figured it couldn’t hurt to ask you. Cheers! from a currently sunny, hot corner of Portland, Oregon in the USA
It's easy, 0 Celsius freezing point of water, 100 boiling point. I mile approx 1.6km, 3 is about 5km. People watching videos made by US creators don't generally find they change measurements for the majority of the world which uses metric and just roughly translate the measurements.
WOW, I don't comment on much, but I live in Texas, the most 'Murican state there is, so that's no excuse. Most people here, certainly any technical company uses the metric system. As the previous comment mentioned, the Metric system is EASY, everything (mass, length, temperature and volume) is based on water. Its a base 10 system so you may do an astonishing amount of math in your head just by slipping a few zeros, fractions make my brain bleed. 1 cubic centimeter of water weighs one gram, a Kilogram is 1000 of them and it takes up that much space and weighs that. A meter is 100 centimeters in length so a Kilometer is 1000 of those. A metric ton is 1000 kilograms...are you with the rest of the planet yet?
Contrary to your opening statement, steel buildings are not “fairly resistant to fire.” This has been demonstrated by numerous events including this one and the fire at the World Trade Centre. Just because steel doesn’t ignite during a fire does not mean it will not soften, buckle, lose its structural integrity or transfer heat.
So where's the conspiracy theorists, because "the fire wasn't hot enough to melt the steel!"?? RIP to all who perished, regardless of their politics or religion.
@@Thefox0922 and at that point the similarities end. This building collapses in the way you'd expect it to, a visible fire made everything get too hot for too long and the building lost the argument with gravity, slowly falling over with a twisting and buckling style of progress. In exactly the way that the WTCs didn't. You don't watch this building collapsing and think "that didn't look right at all!".
@@chrisdavidson911 you can see the twin towers begin to buckle as well. You “truthers” will refuse any evedence that challenges you because you have no comeback
So the authorities are blaming a company, who were probably given the building in the first place from the same authorities. But the authorities were not in anyway to blame for the inspections & recommendations towards safety that were not carrieed out.
It’s not too different from structural mullions.. but steel reaches the yield point and deforms. Concrete spalls at the circular rebar cage. It allows several hours before collapse.
I've always felt metal grating like that to be a bit grim as someone with a soft spot for 1960's architecture. I live near a building in Honolulu called queen emma gardens which used to be clad in that (and I've heard stories of structural cracks in) which preservationists were frustrated about them removing the metalwork from but frankly I think it improved the structure's aesthetics immeasurably.
Not only do some think steel can't melt but at about 2550 degrees Fahrenheit concrete fails but actually no fire usually gets that hot. If a steel structure is built by spraying concrete over the steel skeleton of the building it provides a great amount of strength and probably save the whole structure. Zinc is added over the steel before the concrete is put over it to keep the steel from degrading by corrosion Fire will not damage it's structural integrity if properly built and a fire suppression system built in the building. That was not the case here.
Concrete is not to be looked at as a fireproofing of the rebar, concrete crack and breaks when exposed to fire, there are reasons why you in some places are required to fireproof concrete structures and it is because fire and concrete is a bad mixture.
@@hestheMaster Could it be that you may not have been expressing your self very well in a manner so I was able to understand you? To have a fire suppression system in a concrete building is not the same as fireproofing a concrete building, when that said the two often go hand in hand. Fire suppression may can extinguish a fire, but does not on it's own protect the concrete from the heat that can arise in connection with a fire. In the ideal world, the fire is extinguished before the concrete get damage by the heat, but this is not always the case in the real world. Fireproofing is suppose to slow down the spreading of a fire by protecting the concrete from the heat from the fire. Concrete + save structure + fire, is just wrong.
