That oh-so-glorious feeling when Matt shares a story about a game that went through development hell (and in this case, wound up being moved to another console entirely), but which still ended up being generally praised by critics and audiences alike when all was said and done!
People are too mean to Emily. 😔 She is an absolutely perfect mean girl. "Understand the palm of my hand" is maybe the greatest line in the history of slasher media
She was absolutely right to do so, Ashley might have lost it by that point but she almost got her KILLED (and turning Mike into a murderer! Like girl do it yourself at least). Also I get why she's so mean, she's at the cabin where a prank gone wrong cost two lives and basically messed up their relationships (ie: Josh isolating himself) while being forced to be around her ex-best friend who is dating her ex (and being nasty too.. Jessica was the one who initiated the prank (even if it was for Emily's sake) and said her fair share of insults towards Em. Jessica is also a mean girl. No doubt they've been fighting for a long time anyhow so ofc there's gonna be a shit mood). She has a decent arc. Honestly the only problem is that they HAD to make her a cheater. I think Matt being a bit insecure was totally fine and added more to their relationship and his character. It also gives off the impression she cheated with Mike (iirc, maybe it was outright stated) who is shown as only having eyes for his current gf (although it fits with him being afraid of commitment). It makes Emily meaner than she needs to be. Also the hypocrisy of what they didn't like about Hannah was done with Jess (Hannah was willing to help Mike cheat and basically get with her friend's boyfriend, Jess then went on to actually do the latter (even worse when she's closer to Em)) Like the biggest flaw she had was that she wasn't all that nice to Matt but she learns to overcome it and she's shown to still love him despite her bitchy tendencies. Matt in return is less of a doormat (yay he got a little bit of a hint at development!). And hey at least she cannot indirectly cause TWO people's death by choice
Emily's a straight-up bitch (that's not even my interpretation, it's *in* the game). People are simply divided on whether she's a whiny bitch or a badass bitch. The fans are allowed to have strong feelings about these characters. Ashley for example is seen as either a sweet girl out of her depth or a bad friend. Some people even see Sam as the perfect heroine OR a boring character who sits out a third of the game, it all comes down to how you play and interpret them.
Okay, it's been a while since I've played this game, so details about each characters decisions may not be supremely fresh in my mind. Not to be a contrarian, but I think that on a moral level Emily was the most tolerable out of all the girls. She just had louder more superficial flaws that were easier to gravitate towards hating. Jessica was the one whose actions really made me pause from the gall of it all. *SPOILERS AHEAD.* How ANYONE thinks it's okay to lead a prank resulting in the death of two young girls, and then travel back to that very same location when invited by their grieving brother only to proceed to shack up in a cabin on what was, if I remember correctly, the VERY SAME FAMILY PROPERTY just to smang with the OTHER individual who took part in the very same prank that took two lives is one of the most tone deaf, brainless, and selfish things I've ever seen in a piece of media. It's one audacity short of Jess pulling down her pants and taking a giant shit on the very cliff the twins fell off of. Jessica packed a lot of despicable and blatant disregard into the game despite having some of the least screen time of any of the main characters, which is saying a hell of a lot.
@@cloudshines812 release titles never show the full capabilities of a console tho. it's mostly the titles that come in the last year before the next console
@@gottagofast9464 True… but Until Dawn did utilize some things that would later become staples for the PS4 system. For instance, use of Motion Capture for animations, the use of the controllers lights to indicate the situation of a sequence, the touchpad being a prominate feature and not a button… and lastly, the wireless sensitivity for the “don’t move” segments
I love how Super Massive Games started out making Little Big Planet levels and Walking with Dinosaurs, to making Until Dawn (Probably the funnest games to platinum), Dark Picture Anthologies and The Quarry, all with well known actors and faces who were big before and after this. One those underdog stories in gaming you love to see, but probably never knew about till now.
I'd actually also be interested in a What Happened about the entire "motion controlling 'revolution.'" I mean, I was there, I know most everything about it, I just think it'd be interesting to see the timeline laid out, and where it stands now. I certainly didn't want all of gaming to "evolve" in that direction, but I wish it would have broadened and survived as a "genre" perhaps of the industry.
Yeah, only Nintendo is still dabbling with motion, and even THAT is pretty lackluster and unfulfilling compared to some of the honestly really great stuff we got from the Wii.
@@video-luver769 That was actually the only reason I've been considering a Switch, so kind of disappointing to hear it's not doing well. I realize most of the motion controlling stuff was pretty uninspired and heavily slanted toward casual crap-- shooting, dancing, sports-- but the one game I've missed was a PS3 gladiator combat game: something you *really* couldn't do in real life, and that wouldn't have been nearly as interesting if it had just been pressing buttons. (Admittedly, an extremely narrow area of interest, but I'm not convinced the industry fully explored all of what motion gaming could've been. It was more about trying to cash in on the Wii hysteria. Hence the casual gaming focus.)
I mean, it still sort of exists through VR, and the Switch has motion controls built in, albeit very few games actually make use of it beyond gyro aiming (which is still a great feature, but regardless)
I believe even in the current advent of VR, traditional gaming will still live on. Heck, arcade/non-motion controlled fighting games still thrive even after the widespread success of Wii.
I’ve found myself on another Until Dawn kick for the past few days, so this video couldn’t have been better timed. Thanks, Matt, for all your hard work and for continuing to be shaped like a friend!
The re-direction of Until Dawn was a stroke of genius. This game was even underrated at first imo, it only ages better - its pretty much a perfect Horror experience. Has not been recreated ever since in this quality, atmosphere or storytelling. It is THE playable Movie.
Been covered a million times by other channels. Nearly all of whom play up it's significance. Only the US market crashed. It remained strong everywhere else (hence Nintendo and Sega were able to move into the void left by Atari). But whatever, I guess I'd still watch it.
@@tomthespaceknerd5396 I mean, it's significant enough that had it NOT happened there's a strong possibility we could be looking at a market where Atari sells Nintendo consoles in North America to this very day. The Atari AVS made by Nintendo was very nearly a done deal until the whole North American market bottomed out.
I remember this one scene where the characters are looking up inside a cave, and saying something like "Look at all those corpses on meat hooks!" But you can clearly see there's only one corpse on a meat hook. Time constraints or last time changes?
The bodies of all the characters who die end up there but they don't change the reaction. So whether all of their best friends severed heads are rolling towards them or just the creepy old dude they only knew for a couple of hours they still absolutely lose their minds and freak out :D
Yeah, it's one of the places where the dialogue fails to adjust for the 'butterfly effect.' Another obvious one is, if you don't kill Emily for being bitten by a wendigo, it's still 'bad' news that bites don't transmit the affliction.
@@boobah5643 tbf it is bad news when they were trying to kill her a few minutes ago. Kind of a "oh shit I was wrong and almost did something terrible" . Iirc the timing and who reads it contributes to make it worse and cause a negative reaction nonetheless
@boobah5643 Well it was bad news for Ashley she was pushing for Mike to kill Em. It less of an "Oh shit... Em died for no reason." And more of a "Oh shit... I almost killed Em for no reason."
I had so much fun with this game. It really draws you in. Feels like a Quantic Dream game but without the pretentiousness and more focus on actual enjoyment.
It's so refreshing when a complicated development manages to get out of the gate with such a well regarded game, specially if the studio is still alive and doing good work.
Since Halloween is near and this very episode talked about a horror game, I'd like to suggest a movie for the next "Wha Happun?" video: The Blair Witch: Book of Shadows. Back when I watched this movie, I was too hyped because of the first movie and when I watched the sequel, it was so friggin' disappointing. Later, I read some reviews backlashing it. So I guess it's a typical case for a "Wha Happun?" episode.
I can tell you "Wha Happun" with that pile of burning garbage: the director of "Book of Shadows" hated the original and wanted to show those "rank amateurs" how a "real" movie looks. Basically end of story.
@@screamingfalcon71 the director is actually a highly celebrated documentary director. I can see the logic in giving him the Blair witch sequel but yea…not the best narrative director, clearly.
I remember being absolutely blown away by the game's graphics back during the launch. I remember that It was the first time I thought that there was no way video game graphics would get better than that.
This was actually fun to play. Didn't know the concept was vastly different from the final product. Really nails the scream type parody aesthetic real well.
I actually really appreciate that they grounded the cast. It's usually a common trope in horror media to demonize mental disorders, and especially when it's just meant for a plot twist. I remember finding Until Dawn's characters a bit campy but someone I would ultimately know, not an archetype. I know it wasn't perfect but it's something I appreciate.
One big flaw I noticed with the characters in the final release is that all the girls at least, are too similar, like they may have started off completely different and unique but they got homogenized. In the early footage they had unique hair, some short ones, etc but in the final game they all have sort of generic long hair. Each one is a slightly different flavor of insecure bi*ch, even Ashley who seems like the most nice/down to earth in one moment can jump straight to trying to get Emily killed and locking Chris out in the cold. Sam feels like the only girl who isn't a bi*ch, but she has "final girl" written all over her.
i mean, by that logic all the guys can also be said to be pretty similar. they've all got short hair and are some variation of "dumb macho-tryhard meathead" (with the possible exception of josh, who is one of the villains in the story and whom you dont actually play as)
I've played plenty of horror games in my time, but Supermassive's stories are what stick with me the most, especially if you can find the elusive endings. Fun to find out their own story is as crazy as their games.
I remember Until Dawn being the sole reason for me buying a PS4. I also remember writing Supermassive games an email on how much I've enjoyed the Until Dawn experience and that the heads of the studio replied and shared the message with the rest of the team. This game is ultimately one of the best horror games out there that you and a group of friends can come together and make just as bad decisions as any group of teens in a horror scenario can make.
completely unrelated but I LOVE that you used the cave music from Digimon World 4 in this video!!! I love that song, used to listen to it on a loop to relax myself and help fall asleep. Kudoos to you Mr.Muscles
Oh God I completely forgot about the Playstation Move version of the game. Can you imagine how much of a pain the QTEs would've been with the Move controllers? EDIT: Aye, thanks for the credit (18:15)!
I came here to upvote this video for the use of Grandia 2 Dungeon music in the background. That made me extremely happy to hear that. Good video too Matt!
Until Dawn Rush of Blood is such an underrated vr game. The sheer brilliance of putting house of the dead on a roller-coaster with some genuinely disturbing visuals was apparantly too out there for every other crappy 'horror' vr game.
Now that you've covered this, there's likely a story behind The Quarry too right? I think I remember that The Quarry was slated for Stadia before streamling to consoles.
Honestly, never played the game, but as a spectator seeing how they reacted and getting through the game with the narrative and characters, it’s really fun and engaging, something I wonder if my brother would enjoy it seeing as he’s a horror fan. I do really appreciate their thinking of tackling horror in another way. Most go for action, but going to this direction for the horror did wonders and I think it paid off nicely! Also, with the decisions made by the audience, the teens can go from not the brightest like a few horror movies… or perhaps giving them the smarter route.
2:05 can’t believe this got referenced, I never see it anywhere in discussions. I was a Wii kid and Escape from bug island was my first Resi like survival horror game. Great memories
“Do you remember this guy?!” Yeah, and he got fired because he appeared in a Bridgestone ad playing a Wii. I wonder if the PS4 marketing would’ve been different if that didn’t happen. Not like they needed to advertise much after E3 2013.
Man, this game was fun. My wife got it for me, and we did a play through together where I had the controller and she would make some of the choices as we went. We had a great time. After that I went back and played through it until I got the Platinum.
Chilhood core memory unlocked that Escape from bug island on the wii existed and not just a blurry afternoon fever dream during a dreary hot summer as a teen
another interesting piece of info about supermassive games: it seems that they originally pitched ideas to konami for a new entry in the silent hill franchise - in episodic format, from the rumours we know - and, after konami rejected it, that went on to become the dark pictures anthology. it is believed that an episodic silent hill game is now in development at anapurna studios, along with a main entry title, developed by a “prominent japanese studio”. regardless, it would’ve been interesting to see what supermassive could’ve come up with silent hill, as they seem really passionate about horror :)
How I love this game... It's always entertaining to see a let's player pick this up and experience it for the first time. Everyone reacts a little bit differently and whether they adore or hate the story, characters, game mechanics, etc. it all makes for a fun ride.
I'll tell you what happened. Super Massive Games got lucky by subverting expectations and having fleshed out characters the players cared about. Then, their success turned to complacency as they chugged out mediocre, formulaic successors that seem to have been made in less than a year.
I love all your what happened vids, but I'm a big fan of the ones where you chat with those involved and get some fresh insider info. Really awesome stuff!
A what happened for The Quarry can be very interesting as it is rumored that it actually was a Stadia exc. but since the platform was going downhill it was possibly rushed to come out on all the other platforms.
Telltale Games was briefly mentioned in this video and they would make for a great What Happened episode. I know they are trying to make a comeback but their earlier decline was both swift and surprising.
This video actually got me to play it. Other than it being very obvious which two characters got plot armor I really enjoyed it. I just wish I hadn't accidentally killed three of my five remaining survivors in the very last sequence.
I remember doing some mocap clean up and animation on this game. We weren't credited in the end but I felt proud seeing the work I did when I played through it.
You forgot to mention that at the time SuperMassive Games were handed the reins to Until Dawn they were actually making a trilogy of Doctor Who games, with only one, The Eternity Clock, being released. (also would like you to do a video on The Eternity Clock)
I have a few game and movie suggestions for you, even though I don’t know if their whole stories qualify for an episode: Malice (2004) A Troll in Central Park (1993) Titan A.E. (2000) Galleon (2002)
I remember playing Until Dawn without even hearing anything about the game before buying it. I was a huge horror fan at the time, and the pictures from gameplay alone had me extremely curious. Was absolutely flabbergasted after a few playthroughs (getting every ending, even the secret one) at how little people were talking about it. Got several of my friends to play it. They loved it, too.
It is interesting that Until Dawn was in development so early. Unfortunately, presumably unbeknownst to them, TellTale's The Walking Dead was going to come out at the peak of the Walking Dead and zombies craze and take the exact same "playable movie" type thing, but be finished a lot earlier because it was less graphically intensive and less actual gameplay being simple point and click puzzles with button mashing rather than the complex hand movement motion controller physics puzzles PLUS the button mashing point and click of Until Dawn. Ironically beginning around the same time, Until Dawn would go through various different studios and designs, and the move controls that delayed development would ultimately mean that it came out SO MUCH LATER that everyone in the wider customer base (myself included) just saw it as a cheap TellTale rip off...
Thank you so much for covering Until Dawn! It's one of my favorite games and I had no idea so much early footage had leaked, it's really fascinating to see how many scenes managed to survive the transition from the PS3 to PS4. One game I would love to see covered is Baten Kaitos! I dunno how much there is to cover in the development of the actual game (although there might be some cool stories?) but the dub of that game is... Strange, from an awkward switch to a cast that seems to be based in Japan, to the audio being tinny even though the Japanese audio sounds fine. I've always wondered wha happun'd with that dub.
Hey Matt, during your conversations about the original version of the game, was it always intended to have a wendigo type twist in the story? I remember the original trailer made everything seem more like a saw film than what we ended up getting. So I had always wondered if the wendigo were part of it
Hello, I’m not Matt but I guess that I have enough knowledge about the development of this game to answer your question. So first of all, in London Studio’s version of Until Dawn (2008-2011) the wendigos weren’t a thing in the story. There was a quick reference to miners that got trapped in a mine and that had to commit cannibalism to survive around the year 1920. In Supermassive Games’ version though (2011-2015), the wendigos were in the pitch almost since the very beginning when it was re-written by Will Byles, the game director. Hope that answered your question as your expected to!
@@user_666_ So, that's a bit long to explain fully. But to make it simple, here's what happened: The prologue takes place at new year's eve and a group of college friends plan a wild party at the Colorado ski resort called "Gladview Lodge". They all stay up at night until midnight in an old miner chapel and then get back to the lodge to get some sleep. Hannah stays at the chapel because she wants to see dawn. Just a bit later John, a corrupted country ranger, pulls up outside the chapel. He's come to stash a case full of money in the crypt of the church. When heading inside, he finds Hannah crying. As he comforts her, a masked killer attacks him. The killer wounds Henderson, leaving him for dead in the chapel. Henderson is not dead, but to get out of troubles he fakes as if he really is. Hannah then runs, and gets purchased by the killer. During that time, Henderson manages to get out of the chapel and leave in his patrol car. At some point in the chase, Hannah runs out in front of the chapel and backs off towards the cliff edge. The killer approaches her slowly, and is not attacking. Hannah keeps edging back towards the rickety fence and the abyss behind. The final shot of the prologue is John hearing a big scream and seeing Hannah fall to her death from the cliff. Oh and Beth didn't exist in this version of the game. By the way, all my sources can be 100% believed if you have any doubt; I managed to get in touch with a member of the London studio team that developed the first version. :)
Love the video Matt! Watched a friend of mine stream the game and it was an awesome experience! Also, I didn't know Playstation Link existed until this video lol.
Didn't Detroit Become Human have a similar start of Until Dawn? Loved Until Dawn. I got it cuz it was on a sale rack at Walmart and I had very low expectations and was blown away.
I had a graphical glitch with Rami Malek's eyes and now I can never see him in anything without reliving that moment and not being able to take his performance seriously
Graham's comment of thousands of pages of "hot nonsense" made me laugh so much. I work in videogame translation, and that's pretty much what I feel I'm doing sometimes 😂
I think the choice to not to Until Dawn 2 was good. Granted the dark anthology arrow and the quarry weren't great, but I feel the quarry suffered from having to live up to until dawn
