yaaaa that's usualy the case. you see the #1 parse has a 2nd lock, I would have bet $1000000 on that before I clicked the parse...sure enough there it was lol. how did I know? our lock complains ALL THE TIME about how good he'd be if he didn't have to be support lock
I honestly like the rotation for ranged hunter in sod since phase 3 (with trap launcher/lock n load). If they really want to change the spec away from traps. buff arcane shot and serpent sting to sale with ap at the cost of the TnT rune and swap lock n load with expose weakness runes. give hunters a reason to pick up steady shot/melee spec over expose weakness.
rotation in p3 was a blast..loved chimera, loved serpent sting. don't like how the traps became the star. i like the idea of moving runes around and nerfing traps slightly. hopefully they don't gut the class and make them irrelevant though. next to warriors the face of classic is hunters imo
Feel like the hunter needs more attention. There's 4 hunter builds right now. Mm, Surv, 2h melee and DW melee.. like saying nerf hunter with no nuance is a big oversight
yeah...i'm with you. if they are going to nerf the traps for the #1 spec they need to make up for it with increased viability for other specs at the very least. they have abandoned melee hunter
@@NOHITJEROME Yeah, it’s pretty cool. I’d never done it before at least while the content was current (p1 Classic I mean) and it was pretty damn hard. Probably much easier than Classic considering I have trap launcher with 9 second CDs lol
@@CatDad09 oh yeah i didn't consider that the quest would be easier. i had to try for multiple days especially on the part with shadow damage. needed gspps for that. kiting the demon around the ungoro lake was griefer central too lol
At the very least, even the bottom tier dps are more than enough to clear the raid. Of course it helps, but we cleared Heat 3 without a mage at all, 3 rets, 2moonkins and probably below A average classes.
it's true, you can do it. in a way the utility of boomkins/rets can carry the raid too. none of the fights are dps checks. but people will only ever care about damage
Hunters do not need to be nerfed. Sims are complete bait and not realistic to what Hunters are doing in raid. Hand of Injustice is also sim bait, most Hunters don’t even know it’s bad. Traps are a large % of damage yet they don’t hit on Rag half the time and you need pixel perfect precision on others. We have to stand max range distance on some fights and we can’t always throw traps, without standing in danger of boss mechanics. Tanks moving bosses kills our DPS too, we have to stand still for our crit buff.
fair point on rag the positioning is a nightmare. i'd say the argument against hunter right now is even if they get nerfed then they'll just start melee weaving and outputting even MORE damage. maybe hunters aren't broken, but the avg hunter is ahead of pretty much all casters and everyone really
@@NOHITJEROME No offense, but I think that would be the worst argument for nerfing hunters because melee weaving in raids is about as clunky and ineffective against bosses, ones that are larger scale. If you really want to move MM Hunters away from Traps, they need to rework the spec and talent tree all together because the MM tree is quite useless, we need Traps to do any amount of damage period. Perhaps giving us Lock/Load proc chance on crit every 8 seconds would be a fair trade off. What they can do to appease everyone is rework the hit-boxes of world/raid bosses to compensate for poor activation range of traps. Then reduce the initial hit damage of Explosive Trap and move 100% of the damage removed to the DoT debuff. They already fixed entrapment and that appeased 50% of the complaints from AV. The vast majority complaining about Hunters frankly don’t understand that Hunter is a glass-cannon class with no defense, mitigation or sustain. If you close the gap or LoS us, we will always lose. We don’t even have the skill that lets us jump backwards like in Wrath. I’ve said this before but balancing classes and specs around PvP in SoD will only ever appease 10% and frustrate the 90% because at the end of the day SoD is a PvE focused game.
@@NOHITJEROME We are miles ahead of some classes on the sims. Hunter has been a sim cheese spec since P4. What you see in your raids isn’t anywhere near 4K with near BiS gear and world buffs either due to mechanical problems with melee weave and traps on bosses + some bosses that require us to move out of Sniper Training. Yeah, if we stand completely still and are fighting a target dummy where our traps hit 10/10 times, sure. But we still can’t melee weave and play Ranged optimally due to Sniper Training. Even THEN in perfect scenarios, Ferals and Rogues can still easily beat us in most single target fights where they aren’t getting feared, they just have better damage uptime during movement.
@@CatDad09 Reworking boss hitboxes makes sense, nerf trap damage a bit? I fully agree I HATE Classic melee weaving, it's clunky and miserable. At best it should reward you with 200-300 more dps but it should NEVER be required at all. I think they will need to move hunters away from traps though and more towards shots again similar to P3. That was a fun gameplay loop for me at least, haven't hit 60 on my Hunter since P4 though. Full agreement that Hunter is a glass cannon and as the only class without a tank/heal spec they do deserve to blast. But nerfs are probably coming
@@CatDad09 I played hunter in p3 and I know what you mean about unrealistic sims. Still there is probably a location on every fight where you can basically never move if planned in advance. I agree ferals/rogues will beat you consistently though. On the PTR hunter was never #1 consistently. Not sure exactly why they are overperforming so hard
@@NOHITJEROMEAnd who cares about healing parses. It's not like HPal is OP anyway so, just because they overheal a lot the MT's and so can do high HxS doesn't make other healers complain, because it would be stupid to do so. We all know they are powerful and needed too.
Leave hunters alone, buff the other classes to be not so far behind the hunter. Being the only class without an alternative role should have some benefit on the damage meters
agreed that hunters deserve to do top 3 damage because they bring nothing else to the table. but right now they are annoying in pvp and topping the meters in pve. likely going to see at least some small nerfs
no doubt they are great, and they are getting the better end of the deal than rets. also great tanks. not complaining over here, just noting they are no longer top 3 and breaking the game like p3 :D
it's a good point, we are locked in right now. when will the catchup mechanics come? the rune vendor? i'd love to be able to buy some runes with all the blackrock currency we are getting but that's probably optimistic
do you think that's what they should do john? i don't mind some outliers honestly. as long as next phase we get some slight shifts so it's not the same meta for 1 year
@@swiishtvYea there's already too little raid spots for all the rogues, imagine having less reason to take them or taking less in quantity. Would be silly to make people have to stop playing their class.
How are you putting ele shaman and shadow priest in the same tier? You just showed that ele shamans do around -600dps compared to spriests. Spriest also gives a ton of utility to the raid (insane healing with vamp embrace and they can dispell). Same could be said vs ret paladin (simming 3.5k) vs balance druid (2.6k) but still being in the same dps tier? I am also not sure about the warrior spot. Sure, with all the buffs, bis gear, worldbuffs, debuffs, perfect raid composition etc, they do damage. Without it? They suck. How many % of the player base do we think fulfill these above conditions?
hi blondiwithstyle, this tier list was pure dps, the utility / aoe was not really factored in so much. mostly current dps took priority, some of the differences in terms of sim numbers come from who made the rotations for the sims and how they are coded. ie spriest is lower now than it was because they stealth nerfed the tier set. i do agree that warrior avg will be lower, top end warriors will reach full potential though
stupid point, when you play a holy paladin ur stick with it, you cannot wake up one morning and say fuck to ur guild i'm rerolling tank. All the gear that you've got, tokens that have one spec is kinda lost
@@franck7912 For my guild, we have had priests druids and paladins flex between different roles and we never had trouble. And with dual spec being put into the game as well has extra heat levels to get more loot, the classes can roll more OS than ever before. We already have some of our tier going to OS if we're not pugging. In classic classic, when there was less loot and no dual spec, I think youre "sticking with it" is more true
20k dps in mc kinda feel lol, come to Deviate Delight.... we'll see how the meta shifts once TWW drops. We need a real classic plus to drop. Too bad there is no Blizz Con this year, likely international.
@@maxpowers5055 i came back for 2019 classic, played that, tbc, wotlk, now back to sod. i do like the deviate delight project, its just mannn you start doing 2-3 servers at the same time it all becomes too much lol. it's why i had to take a cata break. have you found the deviate delight project to be taking up a ton of time?
@NOHITJEROME I played beta 04' in college was hooked, fell off of SOD, Cata kinda burnt out but still fun, but DD having a blast. Last retail I played was MoP came back for HC September of last year. Being a HC Diablo 2 gigaChad. Love how interactive you are with your fans. Keep up the good work!
@@maxpowers5055 thanks max powers, im in a similar place, didn't play the beta but i did a lot of tbc back in 2007-2008, came back in 2019. came back for classic/hc and everything similar to you. i want to play everything i just find it hard to keep up with all the game modes at this point lol
@@NOHITJEROME yes it was very powerful when paired with the despair rune. I was melting people in PvP. Charging head first into the horde Zerg no fear.
yeah for example you can't buff boomkin in raids because then you break them in pvp. that's why i think a hit buff to boomkin is the most logical since it doesn't move the needle much in pvp
Hunters are just one big design flaw at this point. Explosive trap should not be doing the damage it does, it should do the damage of a concecration or magma totem, thier go to aoe ability should be volley and on single target imolation trap should be outperforming. Freezing trap and frost trap should not trigger lock and load, all bosses and most mobs are immume to both all they do is clutter the entire battlefield with an ice plate that does not add a single thing.
yeah i agree they are messed up at this point. i kind of liked p3 hunter with lock n load and the traps but it didn't feel broken at that point. getting back to incentivizing immo trap instead and making hunters have to choose between single target vs aoe makes a lot of sense
not wrong..www.wowhead.com/classic/news/itemization-updates-to-zulgurub-class-sets-on-the-season-of-discovery-phase-5-346293 seems like your set is very holy shockadin based too. my favorite but probably not yours lol
pure dps classes should blast. i would agree on all except that mages are not really healers..i don't think any mages heal now. maybe like 3 of them (no disrespect..just everyone wants to blast fire)
all with the wow sims wowsims.github.io/sod/ using recommended sim from each discord, the jacket is gone but we could try something new. full body gnome suit?
@@NOHITJEROME Ele doesn't have any good caster totems. Could start with that. Here's a few ideas; Flametongue Totem - Provides 120 Spell Power Grace of Air Totem - Also Provides 5% Spell Haste Eye of the Storm Talent - Changed to always provide 70% Spell Pushback reduction. Storm Reach - Changed to also increase the range of shock spells to 36yd. Lightning Mastery - Changed to further reduce the cast time of lightning bolt to 1.5 seconds. Improved Fire Totems - Changed to also increase the effect of Flame Tongue Totem by 15%. I think the biggest buff they could provide ele is to make the T1 6 set bonus baseline to Lava Burst. This change would not break pvp. Make the new 6 set 5% crit or Elemental Mastery have a 10 second duration, idk.
@@NOHITJEROME Make the lightningbolt RAMP up. 2-3-4 in a row will make them hit harder. IN pvp you can never stand still and shot that long casts. So it would only boost us in PVE.
The sad part is im usually top damage as an ele sham! Any mechanics i stay at the top and the moment they get to stand still is when they start catching up. Made me realize i was just playing with sub par players who had more time then skills lol.
Did my Rok Delar quest , everything is fine so far. Why would it be nerfed ? There is always one class doing more dps and it being the class with 0 heal and no tanking , while having very hard time with position , having to put aoe each 4 gcd (I don't know any class with that) and having to stay still or not being able to use one of your main damage ability , it all seems pretty fair that in optimal situation it deals more. Because in worse situations it is just not doing anything. Try to find good positions on Onyxia for exemple with that freaking hitbox. It's not because people have always been crying about hunters since 2004 that it is a legitimate complain. Sure , pets 1hko people in p1 was bad , and it got rightfully nerf. It was due to the fact on how scalling for pets is done. Now pets are just unusable. P2 melee was strong but no true hunter likes melee , range was just trash , sub tank level of dps. P3 was okay. And now p4 , people complained about trap launcher which I understand. But the nerf was done very poorly. They put DR on snare which is okay , and took ice trap out of trap laucher which is also okay , but they should have done one or the other , not both. Hunter PVP is a joke if the oponent get on melee range. If you manage to reach it , you win , simple. I also play rogue so I can tell you , there is nothing easier to kill than a hunter on melee. Sure on range , we rock. But we need that with all the gap closers other class got and that deadzone which is impossible to get out from with the burst nature of pvp in SOD. People should stop crying. They want the cheese , the milk , the money for the milk and the ass of the lady selling the milk. If you listen to people , hunter should not be able to do damage on range , not be able to use traps in fight , not be able to get out of melee and of course not be able to do decent damage in PVE ...
First of all huge grats on Rhok delar, one of my favorite questlines ever and a big acccomplishment P2 was the main dark time, melee being that strong was a big problem IMO. Most frustration right now comes from the PvP aspect - the traps are clearly not fair in AV right now even post-nerf, and hunters are always still getting highest HKs in every AV. I empathize with the frustration on fights like ony with positioning, and I agree that if they are going to nerf ie trap damage then they need to make your gameplay less punishing if you move 3 inches during the fight
been trying to get an answer on this question i have for a couple days but nobody seems to know anything... is the PVP gear for priest gonna get spellpower or is it just going to stay a healer set and be pointless to go after for spriest? i wanna pvp but it seems like for my class, there is zero incentive
There is 2 sets but the shadow priest set is not worth getting. Low on spell damage and no crit. They have mp5 on the strong pieces which is a dead stat
Been playing boomkin since phase 2. Still holding on to hope that they’ll get enough love to compete with other dps classes. Been super disappointing. If mages and hunters get instant fire blast and aim shot, why can’t boomie gets instant starfire?
i believe you will get buffs. so your dream buff if they do change it is instant starfire? issue is wpvp and pvp in general - they have to factor in the r14 grind coming up and people hate long range instant death lol
@NOHITJEROME Even just a bit more dmg on dots, starfire, or wrath would do is well I think. Don't need an instant starfire as that would be too OP in pvp.
@@NOHITJEROME not really what I meant. But having something similar, maybe a trigger of some sort. Like hunters need to place trap and set it before they can instant aim shot. I don’t know what they can do, I just know at the current state, boomie dps is no where near other classes. And our 3% crit aura for casters is so meh at this point.
elemental shamans need to be nerfed somehow where it only effects them in pvp, but a buff that effects them in pve. Paladin rets need massive buffs as usual, they suck. and hunters dont need nerfs. they are a pure dps class.
Yo thanks a lot amazing fro boy, I am glad the editing made it more enjoyable. Do you not really like the idea of ranking classes based purely on dps or is it even deeper than that?
@@NOHITJEROME Pretty much that. I think DPS is certainly important but things like utility matter so much more IMO. For instance, Shadow Priest may not do great damage without help but the two Vampiric spells are so huge. Infinite mana for raid is so good and having them in the Tank group passively out healing actual healers is so strong for a 20 man composition. To a lesser extent, Elemental Shaman don't have great damage but having Tranquil Air totem in for your Fire Mages & Destro Warlocks or Tremor totem for a healer group on Ony is worth more then any amount of damage they may be lacking in.
@@theamazingfroboy SPriest utility is so strong that they could do 1000 DPS and I'd still want to stack four of them in the raid so I 100% get your point. The problem is..99% of this playerbase only cares about doing damage. Utility is something for raid leaders to worry about lol. Everyone wants to be the hero, support is just not rewarded. IE with farming - you get rewarded for doing more damage and killing mobs faster..really applies to all aspects of the game
3 hunters in the top 200 in ST, 6 in the top 200 for gnomer, and ONE hunter in the top 200 in blackfathom. this is the first phase they have top representation and everyone wants to nerf them? we still have yet to see warriors and rogues and ferals with full bis/world buffs.. They already nerfed trap launch in pvp. Also, they are getting boosted because of a couple aoe fights. Let them be.
fair points but hunteres were topping in those phases pre-nerf, they got nerfed and ENDED UP there. remember how busted melee hunter was? i agree they are unfairly boosted by aoe fights and aren't as good as they look. but i'm not sure the rest of the population will be happy until they get some small nerfs
to be fair kivrus you played one of the 3-4 strongest spec/classes the whole expansion. the dark period in p2 where melee was op was rough and it's admirable you kept with it. but imagine being like..idk a boomkin this whole time lol
Balance Druids are in a wierd spot, very underwhelming in terms of single target DPS, yet every squad wants 1 or 2 for MOTW, CB res, decoursing, AOE etc. The Cenarion rainment is built around the Starfall ability which is too situational making the set basically useless. 300% dmg increase to Thorns!? Comon Blizzard…Seriously?
balance druids need hit..it's the best change to not break them in pvp but buff them in pve. really hate that they are forced to be decurse bots though lol
Did ret dirty tbh, I checked out the sim myself and used the rotation thing, and with FR gear, we're looking at 3900 dps. Where did this 3400 come from?
it's from the discord, maybe I didn't pull the newest one. whether 3400 or 3900 i don't see it getting reached though. rets are definitely on the underpowered side at least looking at them from over here (horde biased)
fair point these sims are all basically only as good as the person editing/fixing the rotations and fixing the bugs. rets have very good people on that compared to some classes
@@NOHITJEROME I agree but there is a very easy solution. Make lava burst return mana and deal 50% less dmg in pvp. Blizzard already has the ability to make abilities less powerful in pvp and why they are not implementing that tech is beyond me.
i have yet to see a melee hunter so i didnt include them. feels like blizz just wants to merge that into a melee/ranged weave build, not a fan of melee weave/shooting so not a huge fan of that. how have you been performing in raids so far? i'd like to see a log if you have one
Was von vacation for 3 weeks. Yesterday i try tonfind a dungeongrp. Playing ahaman is still meh.so many... Im ele hoping finding some grps bec. Enhancer is soooo much. Wondering if i try a other class. My shadow or trInf hunter. Dont know.xD
shaman is still incredibly desirable my friend. i would keep that shaman going and let the groups roll in. i hope your vacation was fantastic, where did you go my friend?
@@NOHITJEROME Diving from top of Germany to Italien. It was hot. But Kids Loved IT. So WE love IT.... My Druid is now.lvl 50 doing some runes and then i think i Go full feral Main!:D
hmm..id love to but not sure yet. currently hpal king because it's a raid of tank healing. disc 2nd shaman 3rd (tank heals) rdruid last. funny part is druid outputs the most heals in perfect scenarios, but ther'es no raid damage. buit decurse is so op so you probably always bring one. as for healing mage, i saw a high performing one but idk how many we'll see
@@garrettsondgerath9877 yeah you are set up to tank heal better than priests. so maybe the real order is ret -> sham -> disc -> druid (mage can be top or last but i'll never see any lol) - reality is priest steals a lot of the healing with shields, but you only need tank healing for 90% of the raid. i do wish shamans were on hpal level. would make my healing on disc so chill but hpal is just BUSTED For this raid and tank healing
@@NOHITJEROME Since a lot of runes look to retails previous abilities I was thinking either when you thunder clap/whirlwind to spread rend to targets hit or maybe if whirlwind were to hit 3+ targets it reduces it's cool down by 6 seconds?
hmm..good question. not viable in pve right now. hunters carrying in pvp. we'll see arms back in the discussion soon when r14 grind starts up and everyone starts looking for frontliners
it's 2019 MC but with a few small extra mechanics and required fire resistance for every raider. There's almost zero raid damage going out, it's pretty much purely tank healing needed. That means you can even 2 heal if you really want to, but it's risky due to world buffs.
i'd love to, will see if there's time but for now #1 hpal #2 discpriest #3 restosham #4 restodruid #5 mage (mage has some insane parses so might secretly be sleeper good) - hpal insane tank heals, priest steals all heals with shield, rsham is best horde tankheal and the meta is 90% tank healing so they might actually be better than disc honestly. rdruid is bis output healer but nobody cares because the raid is all tank heals. though decursing is a rare art and always will be in demand
tier lists are totally useless. boss are melted so fast that even a full raid of C tier dps is more than enough lol. people should disregard today tier lists in this version of the game
@NOHITJEROME ele boomie and priest rank f tier, even f is viable its just that they are so dogshit atm that st 100% parse other classes deal allmost triple the damage, that's what you call F tier
it does seem like horde just argue about dual wield vs 2h and meanwhile some allies are lobbying for nerfs to ensure they are ahead. but i think it's mostly because i follow the speedrunning scene. not really happening in the actual game itself
Placing warrior Way too High. Completely shit aoe and also lacking in single target dps. Yes in a perfect scenario with full bis they are decent but this is not applicable for the average player
you are the only warlock i know othjer than the guy i raid with lol. he HATES being the only lock, has to do so much buffing..summoning..nobody appreciates any of it either
Warrior wirhout buffs is a piece of shir that is awful when you are just doing dungeon, dps aoe of warrior is the worst, i am warrior, and my best spot there is always tanking, even 2 tanks is better than a warrior dps spot, thats a problem
