If I were to upgrade the M10, it would be moving it to the home office, gaming room, bedroom and add high efficient speakers to it. Fill the free space with the M33 and enjoy the real gem of that system which is BluOS multirompsboot streaming and that beautiful user interface throughout the house.
I´ve gone for a cheaper version, an M10 feeding the mid & treble, and an XTZ Edge A2-400 feeding the base, using the M10 pre-outs. The clarity and separation are even better, and the M10 doesn´t get so hot which was a bit of a worry previously.
Without any doubt the build and finish is superlative to say the least. I have the M50.2 connected up to Arcam FMJ separates and I’m very pleased with the sound quality that it produces. Well done NAD!
I do agree: with separates you can change whatever you want in the pursuit of your perfect sound. As with integrates, you’re not stuck at all! You can change them with better integrates. Because I understand money is not an issue.
yes you can change integrated and get different sound but its not the same as you dont choose the bits thats in them, you might really want the amp but not the DAC, not the streamer not the headphone amplifier not the phono stage but you have to pay for all these if you want the amplifier.
Hi Terry, great intro review and rather timely. I have Buchardts s400 mk2 with RelT 7 sub running off M10. I almost went in for a Willsenton R8 tube amp as I’d heard good things. If I wanted to upgrade M10 would a pair of Vincent mono blocks SP T700 fit the bill? Just want to see if I can integrate a hybrid tube sound?? Cheers, Stu
Great review as always, I have 33 and 23 in bridge mode driving kef reference 5meta .. also krell 400 evolution single ended .. from the 33 switch back and forth .. it's a process I love the transparent detailed sound of the nad but love the presence of the krell it's all good thank you sir for your insight and reviews
It's only natural to grow from an integrated amp or systems. Any all-in-one integrated amp/system will eventually find a bottle neck from a part the playback chain. Most of the time it is from the front end such as the streaming input module, the built-in DAC, or the preamp section. The better design ones will allow planned upgrades with power amp / preamp bypassing inputs and outputs. Allowing the user to grow in steps before going to a full separates system. Mixing and matching different components and learning how find synergy is all part of the joy. 😍😍😍
I anticipate the Bespoke audio Co. Pre amp to be a very special and transparent unit... 👌🏻 I wonder how the Nad Master series Pre/Dac/streamer would pair with that stereo power amp there? .... Oh and nice sweary intro.. Cables to you!
Always a joy to watch your videos. Well articulated speech and good presentation. I would also agree on the benefits of separates over integrated amps. There are exceptions to every rule but in my experience (about 30 years into this hobby) that is true in almost every case. But of course there are integrated amps that are better than some separates (from another company).
Thanks as always Terry. One thing that no one ever seems to discuss/explore is the M10's bridge mode capability. Unfortunately, NAD doesn't make a matching power amp-only M10 accompaniment. Ideally two identical amps when bridging is ideal. That being said. Do you think it would be possible/ideal/improvement to bi-amp the speakers by bridging the M10 and feeding the highs and bridging the M23 or, more cost effectively, a similar C298 to feed the lows? Perhaps with the lower gain setting on the M23? Would the disparity between the M10's 100WPC and the M23's 200WPC (C298 185WPC) be completely incompatible?
I've owned the NAD M23 for about 1 year now and using it with a PASS Labs XP-12 preamp. It's been a great match for me and I really like it. I am also using an AMR DP-777 SE DAC. I'll be satisfied for a very long time. I have considered purchasing another M23 and run them in Mono, but I really don't need any additional power. I'm curious if running these in Mono would change the sound.
Hi Terry, I have the opportunity of getting an m23 or a chord etude used for roughly about the same price. Would you recommend one over the other? I now you had them both in house at about the same time. Not too concerned with sound signature as I have a fully balanced tube preamp I really like and can alter its signature slightly by tube rolling, mainly concerned with which amp can take me further into the audiophile journey. Thanks for all you hard work, love your reviews, keep them coming!
I totally agree about separates… my DAC preamp and amp mix is WAY better at its price than what I could get in a comparable receiver. 150 at 8ohm 250 at 4ohm, Polish resister silver wire passive pre and an R2R DAC. No receiver offers that
I've witnessed how much a separate power amp can transform a system myself, but I think given you're running an M23, then the M10v2 is not really a cost-efficient option if you're only using the preamp section. A miniDSP SHD matches almost all of the M10 features including Dirac while adding some additional deep DSP options and costing around half the price. It also sounds and measures excellent.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Interesting - I bought one recently and I'm generally very happy apart from a few niggles (yes, I agree usability/UX could be better). Would be interesting to know what you dislike about it. Do you have an opinion on the NAD C658?
I didnt dislike it but the overall user experience is not nearly as polished as with the NAD, the chassis feels cheaply made and it feels made to a price just loaded with features. The NAD feels like a high end product thats not made to a price and BlueOS is a much better experience than volumio. I havent played with any of the C range of products from NAD
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Yes, I think that's fair. I'm a bit sad about how plain it looks in my hifi stack, but I see it much more as a power user/tinkerer-oriented product than the very polished NAD products. Someone like you would have to be very excited by the infinite possibilities afforded by the 2x4 matrix, level controls, parametric EQ, digital crossover etc, though. I run from the SHD into a PS Audio S300 and Mission 770s, so it's an extremely similar system to what you're showing in the video.
Yeah totally if you want all those features its great and they are quite advanced audiophiles tools and features and its still one of the only stand alone solutions that feature Dirac Live so its got its place in the market. But iso does the M10 V2 even as a dirac live enables streaming dac in a lovely case with BlueOS which is excellent.
Nice review, thanks. I have a NAD M33 paired with LS50 metas and a Ked subwoofer. What’s your opinion on bridging a M23 together with M33 for sound quality improvement?
Fully agree both on the benefit of separates but also the hidden capabilities of the NAD M23 which far outweigh the Dac and preamp capabilities of the M!0 V2. Pairing it with something like a Holo May Dac and Denafrips Athena preamp should really make it sing. Looking forward to the Bespoke preamp review!
The Denafrips preamps are Unity gain. The fact that Terry had to use the High sensitivity with the M10 makes me think the Denafrips may not be the best match. The Holospring Serene has +6dB so would be the better match.
Is a M33 not a better option? I think it is. M33 & M23 is the best value for money there is in my view. When having a an M10 the C298 looks a better upgrade.
The M 23 is a little expensive for me. Are there cheaper amps of quality that will boost the power of my original M10. Excellent video addressing just the solution I was considering. Thanks Terry.
NAD uses Eigentakt architecture but the are built and the tailored in-house, plus have bespoke swps. Nord uses mainly off the shelves parts. If that makes a sonic difference I cannot say though.
🤗👍😎 TERRY ,YOU ARE PROVING THAT THIS IS THE BEST TIME TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE 😁 AND YOU HAVE PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST JOBS 😁 testing all these products and we benefit from your experience 🤗💚💚💚
Hello! New to the channel. I wanted to say love the video's! I'm learning something everyday as I'm new to this. I did want to ask where can one buy the beautiful white sound proof panel/panels behind thr nad on the walll behind you. Thanks again!
Hello and very much welcome. All my acoustic treatment comes from GIK acoustics here is a link to their site gikacoustics.co.uk/ref/9/ The diffusion that are directly behind me are called Gotham and I painted them white to match the decor and look I wanted.
Hi Terry Great and interesting review as always. As you know I already own the M33, in your opinion do you think I would benefit from adding the M23 in bridge mode given the additional power output is greater than the recommended power of my Bowers and Wilkins 702 S2’s
Roger mate I really dont know, I dont know how much benefit it might bring against the cost. Your system was sounding pretty awesome to me with the REL's added but I suppose it depends on how greedy you want to be :). You know how fat I am and how greedy I must be haha but I really dont know.
It has been my experience that NAD Amps have a very similar sound throughout the range. I would definitely make the recommendation to change to a different sound before a dropping in $3000 for something that sounds the same but bigger. I have a NAD C388 that I barely use and my 10year-old Anthem 225 integrated obliterates it every time
@@rudolfappel7236 Yes and then immediately purchased a new power amp with twice the power for £ 900 new with the icepower as1200 boards. Nad is "nice" but they are doing what they are all doing. Fitting their innards with class D at a much reduced cost to them and charging you class A money. (I love class D sound by the way driven by an old school valve preamp )but I think it's ridiculous that the price is so high and all that crowing about power and you still only get a measly 200 wpc
Come on Terry, let’s have some more videos on this amp “in the wild”, I.e. what are it’s capabilities with regards other power amps when mixed and matched in various systems, not just when used in combination with the M33. On the end of my Chord TT2+Mscaler this might be an end-game amp for me. Limitless power and as close to neutral as it gets.
Ironically I just wired up a PS Audio S300 power amp with my M10v2, paired with some Maggie 1.7is. Difference is noticeable (better). Would agree with efficient speakers, you likely don’t need more power.
So if I don't listen at high volumes (99% of the times I listen to music I listen at lower to moderate volume), such an upgrade to the M23 (or the M33) would be a waste, there would be no noticeable difference?
What about just getting another m10v2 and bridging them so as to use them as mono blocks, would that not give you 200watts per channel as well as improved sound ?
I suppose you could go that route if you wanted to, I never thought of that one but again your still tied into the M10 as the source pre and dac and you cant then change the dac if you want to. That is the point of the video
I guess if you like the sound of these Nads, that's a reasonable upgrade path. Not personally into the NAD sound though myself, so I'd suggest a full move! I did something similar myself, being extremely happy with the Atom I was using, but switching to a Naim NAP 250DR power amp for further control. I switched the front end for a Auralic G1 as the amp in the Atom was no longer of use once I had the 250, so an upgraded streamer/dac helped. Its actually a really solid pre amp in the Auralic G1, but a different seperate pre amp is likely to help me in future too. Thanks for your video, always a good watch.
Thank you Terry for another interesting and frank discussion. I can imagine that the M23 would be well suited and compliment a valve preamp - like the LTA ZOTL. However, the sonic benefits would be at the cost -for you - of loss of Dirac processing. Dirac is something that I would love to experiment with if there were an 'outboard' Dirac separate unit. Maybe next year? Greetings to you and yours - Happy Christmas!
Hi, Terry. Love your reviews. I'm no expert, far from it. So could you answer this question for me, if I was to buy a Hegel amp for power, but say an NAD M10 for it's bits, which would be the sound I hear from the speakers? I know it probably sounds stupid, but I don't know which would be the over riding sound. Thanks for any help.
Hi Adam hard to say mate, you will likely hear some of both as they are different. I would say though it probably makes no sense to buy the M10 if your not planning to use its built in amplifier. Maybe one of NAD streaming pre amp dacs would suit you better.
Regarding any type of power amplifier, always stick to the 10% rule to avoid clipping on transients. Never drive the amplifier beyond 10% of it's maximum output power rating.
I fully understand all of the arguments you make for separates. But.. someone that bought an NAD M-10 V2 probably was attracted to the all-in-one functionality and would be better-served to sell it / trade it in for a NAD M33.
There are distinct pros and cons to all in ones so it just depends. You cannot underestimate the importance of the source the dac and preamplifier for sound quality and separates allows greater exploration so it just depends on what you want
The fact that you have the sensitivity set to High when being driven from the active M10 v2, makes me think a passive preamp won't be a good match for the M23. I think a good preamp with an available 12db or so of gain will be a much better match.
Isn't the difference between the 100 watts of the M10 and M23 just 3db? Maybe the 770s need 400wpc or more? Might as well have Magnepans... I own the v2 and rarely go beyond 50% on the volume. That's pretty loud on a pair of Buchardt S300s. I might suggest a different class of amplifier - maybe A/B?
Well, NAD’s products are known for dynamic headroom and it’s still only 3dB more on the M23 (and M33). I think it’s “power bias” (my quotes 😉). We all want more, yes? Thing is, few recordings have the kind of dynamic range that justifies such expenditures. Or, maybe it’s the size of your listening room. Mine is decidedly medium. The v2 did have a change in that gain was increased somewhat. I doubt that it was more than 3dB because it’s still not impressive. I narrowed its range in Bluesound settings to -60 to 0dB and find that to be better in “feel”. Don’t get me wrong. I’d love more power, but would instead like to try an AB, class A or tube amp (even less power) just to see how much that the preamp in the M10 determines the character of the sound. The trouble is that AB and A amps are huge and I can’t really accommodate them in my furniture. I did consider trying other NAD amplifiers, but they are all larger than necessary considering that they are class D. There must be a lot of air inside them. ☺️
The DAC pre and streamer determines a lot but that is also very good and very nice sounding. If your not hitting the power ceiling limit you probably dont need more. I hit the 72 mark easy and thats about max really before you hear it lose it sometimes. Thats the whole point of more power it can go bigger without stress to the sound
Terry, correct me if I am wrong but the M10 w/ DIRAC implemented reduces it's power output to a degree. My speakers have 83 imp so I am considering an upgrade to my system now. Going to start with the room reflections first, but adding an amp is on the list. Thanks for the video.
10:34 "With this particular set up you would think..." Well, no one should think this, as 200 continuous isn't twice as loud, as 100W continuous. Its only 3dB louder. A 1000W amp is needed, to get twice the SPL at same distance.
Not trying to convince the separates enthousiasts, but you are doing the M33 wrong. The connection from pre to power amp is so much better than a separates connection. It’s balanced, it’s short, it’s screened by the enclosure, it does not pitch up noise like a 1 m long RCA cable. The impedance between pre out and power amp input is perfectly matched. I have not seen you do a side by side comparison to the M33. The M33 offers separates solutions: balanced analog inputs for upgraded phono stage or a high end CD player, AES EBU balanced digital input for high end CD Transport, Module expansion for multiple HDMI inputs to enjoy TV and gaming through the wonderful system and an additional plethora of unbalanced and optical inputs. The M33 has MC + MM phono input which is ver valuable. For confined space and versatility the M33 is a exceptionally high quality device.
Yes the M33 is a very nice all in one, but its still an all in one and that. might not be the route someone wants to go as there is a big hifi world out there outside NAD to explore
what is your main reason for "needing a bigger amplifier"? is it you want to play louder? I find the m10 v2 is very very capable at reasonable sound levels. Am i wrong?
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I told her that two weeks ago:) But, if I said something like, “those albums will sound bigger, more headroom, etc.” would I be lying? I want to add a 130W power amp and use my Rotel a11 as pre-amp.
It might be easier to just buy it, install it when she goes out and then convince her its always been there of course, as the system would not work without it
It seems to me kind of a forced upgrade path. If one loves the M10 sound, features and the all in one concept, why shouldn't he sell the M10 and buy a M33?
That is one route but then your still into the all one which is fine but negates all the benefits of a separates system. I did explain this and was the whole point of the video
I guess it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison to really test Terry’s hypothesis. Also, I would be personally interested to hear whether upgrading to a tube power amp (e.g. Primaluna Evo 400) would provide a substantially different sound characteristic…
