Problem wasn't that the Ordnance Corps provided the Star the wrong cartridge, the problem was that the Star was chambered to the wrong cartridge. -t. Ordnance Corps
Hey! Rhode Islander here.. Yeah.. That tiny state. I just realized the Burnside Carbine was designed by the same ambrose Burnside that was the 30th governor of Rhode Island. He died here in 1881 and is buried less than 5 miles from me at the Swan Point Cemetery in Providence RI. I'm a huge fan karl, and if you ever find yourself wanting to visit the resting place of burnside, I would gladly show you around Rhode Island and bring you to his resting place.
@@MountaintravelerEddie somewhat truth. I lived in Dallas for a year. City is size of my state. Lots of history here though and a truly beautiful state. Come visit us
A Big problem for the US military during the Civil war was the Ordinance department's desire to Not supply any ammunition of 'non-standard' design. They only wanted to issue the standard paper cartridges and caps for a Springfield rifle. This was a problem for the Calvary throughout the war. Great video and Take Care, John
One of the rarest early War breach loading carbines was the Cosmopolitan carbine. My great-great-grandfather carried one in the fifth Illinois Volunteer Calvary. I think there was only around 2,600 of them made.
The Maynard was also made in .35 before the war as sporting carbines and again in 1865 in .40 as sporters. Most of what the state of FL bought before the war were .35 sporters I believe.
Hey Karl, are we still goin to see this series any time soon? I know I love your gun comparison videos and seeing more about these fascinating arms would be a real boon!
Ebenezer T. Starr was my 5th cousin, 6X removed, on my mother's father's side of my family. My wife is into genealogy...she also says I'm related to Johnathan Browning, and his famous son John Moses Browning, but she's still trying to find the exact connection...
The cartridge he displayed was a modern equivalent. The original was a rubber tube with a bullet at one end and a cardboard disc with a center perforation at the other. They are very rare and collectible today. My great great grandfather purchased one of these carbines when he was discharged from the Union army. The price was eight dollars and it is still in he family.
Although I do like the vid i have to point out that the term side burn comes from the use of Flint loc rifles by the English infantry..... The men would grow " side burns " to prevent powder burns on the side of their face ... So i was told.... I could be wrong it ...
I wonder if private purchases count toward "issued." Does this also include Spencer Rifles or just Spencer Carbines? I have a relative that served in the 98th Illinois Infantry Later turned into Mounted Infantry they had Spencer Rifles, not Carbines. From what I heard they were purchased by a number of local donors to the unit, and it was the fact that this infantry unit had spencer rifles which is why they were later turned into Mounted Infantry as well, supposedly. I say supposedly as that's what I've heard. Issue is would this qualify as "issued?"
So the Starr carbine was not a technically flawed design, but developed a reputation for poor reliability due to it being issued the wrong ammunition... Now where have I heard that before, or should I say where have I heard that 100 years later.
@@johnpredmore8753 that would be a lot of extra weight to carry around. Plus it probably wouldn't stop a bullet unless it was fired from some distance. With my Kentucky long rifle I could put holes through a quarter inch steel plate at 50 yards. There's no way you would be packing around a quarter inch steel breast plate, that would be way to heavy. There's a reason armor had all been pretty much written off by the 1800's. There were still some armies that used what was called a cuirass which was a steel breast and back plate, but i believe it was only cavalry that used them. They were called cuirassiers.
Forces mounted on horse, in force, on course, from unknown source, of course. What I'm curious, were these forces all cavalry, or did either side deploy dragoons?
A slightly unhinged looking Karl is sitting across a gun-laden table from me and discussing Civil War firearms. This is either a dream or a very threatening nightmare.
US Army ordance core issued the wrong type of ammo that caused reliability problems that would lead to the gun being labeled as useless. Good thing they got mistake out of the way in the 1860s I'm sure they'll never do that again
Don't jinx it. The last thing you'd want to happen is that the US would fail so miserably that they'd lose a war to a vastly technologically and economically inferior opposition. Ehem. Weird cough
@@quangduongang6230 the officers who deliberately screwed up the cartridge and it's powder should have been put in a punishment battalion for risking American service men!
I'm at work waiting for a "important meeting about our Covid response ". It's been 2 hours and the meeting hasn't started. Thank you for providing entertainment and education while I wait. I'm a proud patron and love the work you guys do. Stay safe, stay healthy.
Conclusion- Been in 3 meetings over 3 days totaling 9 hours awaiting our department's response, procedures and reaction to Covid 19. Their final decision- Go back to work as if nothing is happening.
@cas curse Thank you. My crew and I have procedures that predates the current crisis. We are habitual hand washers, didn't hangout with others outside of unit, maintained distance due to our job and environment and used hand wipes and hand disinfectant. We were hoping for another level of safety but we didn't have much faith and that was proven well founded.
@@stonehaven That would have been a great April Fool's video. Starts out showing a Sharps. "this was the Union's preferred carbine. However, the Confederacy made great use of this" *pulls out AK-47.* "The AK-47 turned the war and secured victory, but not peace, for the South."
When will we get an episode focusing on the history of Civil War-era tables? I think people would really enjoy hearing about the Nelson Model 2 'Logtop' you have there. It's an interesting example of the high quality equipment that the Confederacy was able to produce, despite a lack of manufacturing capacity.
I’m so exited for this series. As a History lover and a civil war buff. I can not wait to hear about these guns history and their advantages and disadvantages from a tactical perspective like in range does!!!
I still do not understand why Ian hates the Spencer so much. A lot of soldiers in the union army bought them with their own pay. It's a simple rugged repeating rifle. The Henry rifle was really expensive and complex with a nice open feeding system that could easily find filth.
I'm well aware that Ian isn't in the video I'm just saying I have no clue why he has disdain for the rifle. I appreciate your response. I look forward to your video on the Spencer. Actually I look forward to all of your videos.
I called the Sharps before he picked it up. Then I was SO proud of myself. Then I was VERY sad. I learn so much from Ian and Karl, but not how to let people love me... never that. Good series 10/10 will recommend.
Cant wait to see the more detailed video on each weapon! Thank you! I was always fascinated by the civil war era, but living on the west coast most of my life I had never been back East to see any of the battlefields until I was 50ish. My wifes famy lived in Frederick Maryland and when we visited numerous times I had to make the rounds of Antietam & Gettysburg which were both amazing! Even walking in the woods in the area had a special feel about it, like I was walking through hallowed ground and the losses that occurred there could still be felt.
I've also been to both and they're worth the trip. I really like what they've done with Gettysburg. The first time I went, everything was overgrown. However the last time, they'd cut back Little Round Top so that it looked like it did at the battle.
The number of Spencer's received is incorrect. Only 45,733 Spencer carbines were manufactured under the wartime contracts (excluding the Burnside contract, as none were received before the end of the war), which ran into 1866. By 1st August 1864 the army had received 20,182 Spencer carbines. They probably didn't receive much more than 30,000 before the war ended.
Yes the Henry 1860 was issued. Most notably it was issued to the 1st DC cavalry that was one of the units that helped defend the nation's capital. Book "Symbol sword and sheild"
Reminds me of some of the specialty pellet gun ammo out there, where you have a sub-caliber tin and iron (not lead) pellet and a plastic casing to engage the rifling.
@@Warriorcat49 They are not sabots as they don't separate, it's just a plastic coating over the skirt of the pellet to protect the rifling when using a tougher metal than lead since air rifle barrels tend to be made of fairly soft steel.
@@devincook2736 Airguns will have 1020 or 1117 steel for rifle barrels while centerfire rifles will have 4130 or 4140 steel. Companies like Crosman and Daisy use low carbon 1020 in their barrels, higher quality air guns will have 1117 which is equal to the steel in .22 rimfire barrels. Benjamin uses or used brass barrels at one time (many older guns will have brass barrels). You'll find warnings online about not using steel or copper-coated steel BBs in rifled airgun barrels because it can damage the rifling.
I saw the video about the model 2 Maynard with it's reusable brass cartridges- I'm rather confused about why it's only the sixth most issued when it makes much more sense than several of these other breechloaders. I can understand that the Sharp's was the first widespread one, and I definitely understand why the Spencer would be so popular, but these other designs don't have any advantages I can see over the model 2 Maynard.
This looks like it's going to be a fun series. Also, it's nice to know that even in these times of crisis, civil aviation is alive and well in Arizona. I had to cut my Patreon pledge from $5 down to $1, so the thank-you at the end made me feel kind of guilty, but hey, if there ever is such a thing as money in Maine ever again, you'll be the second to know after the people who hold the mortgage on my house. :)
4:52 THAT'S MY FAMILIES RIFLE LOL No seriously I'm a distant relative of General Ambrose Burnside. Would love to have one if these as a family heirloom.
The Hall "breech-loading muzzle loader that you didn't load from the muzzle" (mentioned about 1m 20s into the video) must have been either a very confusing or very convenient firearm to operate. Clever, subtle April Fool's Day joke Karl. ;^)
I am always excited about these series on specific topics. But that also makes me wonder: What about your WWSD 2020 series? You announced that big and only made a few videos ... months ago.
The Prussians had breach loaded guns with cartridges were the primer was inside the round since 1840. Wonder why it took so long this made it's way to the staates?
One wonders why it took so long for Great war generals to understand the ramifications of machine guns, when Gatling guns were demonstrated on civil war battlefields.
I'm a cavalry reenactor and I use the Smith carbine. This is for in range and any reenactors out there. the biggest problem with the cartridges back in the day and modern ones was how difficult they were to remove from the chamber after they were fired. they're also difficult to put in the chamber with an actual bullet in place. All because of the rubber. What the rubber did was it sealed the chamber so there was no leakage and higher pressure resulting in better ballistics with the bullet. But both in combat and and reenacting these became very difficult to work with. Sometimes I actually found myself spending too much time trying to remove a spent rubber cartridge from the chamber then actually participating in the reenactment. The solution that I found was using red plastic plumbing hose from any hardware store which is used in conjunction with blue plastic hose for hot and cold water in showers. Cutting them down to the same length as the rubber cartridges and using masking tape on one end that is easily burnt through not requiring any kind of hole and after the powder is poured in, poor boiling candle wax onto the top so that it forms around the granules of powder. If the candle wax is too cool then it will form a solid Mass on top of the powder creating a projectile which in my experience and experiments can sometimes result in a tracer. But all in all it is a projectile and you don't want to use those on the reenacting field. Will they kill? At close range they could possibly kill and cause serious damage. They put pretty solid dents in pinewood. So long as the wax forms around the granules of powder to the point where the powder is all you see then it will disintegrate and burn upon ignition meaning no projectile whatsoever. So because the plastic hose is a smaller diameter than the rubber they are extremely easy to pull out of the chamber and extremely cheap so not much to worry about if you drop some on the field. Glad to share my experiences
Amazing info - I had never seen some of those cartridges before (wow...rubber?!). Please don't take this as a negative...former OCD teacher here.🙂 The caValry was on hoseback. The place called CaLvary is where Christ was crucified.
There are also many unique breech loading carbines issued only to State regiments that are well engineered and using the most advanced technology. e.g. the Triplett and Scott Repeater, Sharps and Hankins, and Frank Wesson. So much advancement in a short period of time
I'm always amazed by ya'll's ability to just rattle off numbers without a paper in front of them. You listed 5 separate cartridges, bullet weights, powder counts, and velocities without a hitch!
I ran across a Maynard at a pawn shop, had 3 barrels and some cartridges with it. Must have been a later model, as the primers went on the cartridge. There was even a tool for setting the primers
Oh how I've been looking forward to this series, it'll keep me entertained for the lock down here in the UK. How much were you able to get filmed before all this started happening?
The Spencer Carbine remained the Standard Issue Carbine to mounted Troopers posted West of the Mississippi. At Ft Sill the Spencer was finally recalled in the winter of 1873/74. I wonder how many seasoned Troopers bought their's Surplus for $10 and carried it as " Back up? The cartridge was pretty similar energy wise; the 45-70 Carbine load was 45 grains of powder and a 405gr bullet. Spencer used a 350gr bullet and 45gr black powder.
Thankfully the Ordinance Corps learned from their lesson with Star ammunition and never, ever changed ammunition technical details on a new firearm ever again. April Fool's!
The Spencer also had a cartridge box with a number of tubular "speed loaders" that could be emptied into the buttstock magazine. That's a lot of fire power for the time. I have a repro in 45LC-what a great gun.
I would really enjoy a video about the battle of chickamauga! They have a super collection of ~4 to 500 rifles of the civil war on display at the visitor’s center and I’ve really enjoyed your vignettes on the Wild West! Great Job!!
I applaud your narrative, daunting though it may be to regurgitate that much information in one take. A couple of Spencer/Sharps mismatches but overall a well put together video. I’ve owned an original Spencer rifle, I own a repro 1863 Sharps and have fired a Maynard.
A bit off topic, but I am researching the weaponry of the 8th U.S. Cavalry Troop E formed August 1866 and deployed to Ft. Lapwai (later Idaho). As a newly stood up Troop the reading I have found is unclear whether or not they would have had hand-me-down Civil War, remanufactured Civil War or newly purchased "state of the art" firearms for a post Civil War cavalry. My great grandfather on my dad's side served with them in Idaho. I also have a Maynard carbine, similar to the one you showed, but our family lore is that belonged to my mom's great uncle, who served in the U.S. Army in the Philippine Campaign, around 1899. Thank you for any leads you might think of. Also, thanks for a well done video!
Nice. This is going to be a great series. A brass case with a flash hole. I am surprised that it took several more years to make the mental leap of putting the primer at the flash hole. Rimfire cartridges existed, so having priming in thd case was not an off the wall idea. I have long thought about getting a repro Spencer. Starline has been making the centerfire brass for awhile, so it is a feasible proposition. I imagine dies are probably expensive and special order, but they are a 1-time expense. Same for the bullet mould. Don't get me thinking- that is always dangerous😃
You are confusing the word "Calvary", the name of a hill just outside Jerusalem where the Romans crucified people, with "Cavalry", the mounted arm of civil war armies.
I can see what is being done - ie comparing breech loading carbines, but what about Winchester lever actions ie Henry 1860. A much better rifle, albeit a bit longer coz of a 24" barrel and 15 rds in the mag.
These vids are great and all but... ... To be honest with you - the little kid in me is like "So if i was the rich guy, who gets a gun made custom from esteemed gunsmith XYZ (kind of like korth or something)" I'd love to see a "money is no object"- I want the best gun for my horse, what could the technology of the time do?
@0:25 "A Springfield muzzleloader .. . was not viable to be used by horses who are mounted on horse". Indeed. I'm not sure if any of these are viable for that purpose.
