US Gyms are INSANELY Soft 

what's wrong with that moonboard look soft. v1 in my gym

Important to remember that the moonboard is only one style of climbing.

I climb around v6-7 in my gym and v4-5 on moonboard. US gyms are just soft at lower grades because they want people to see improvement fast and get hooked. It starts to normalize a bit the higher you go.

I think the moon board is really good at teaching a climber to keep tension through their feet... its quite frustrating, but when your foot keeps popping on a move, it forces your to focus on your foot throughout the move rather than just aiming for the next handhold. I also love the moonboard for building strength.

You're absolutely right - good choice to use the Moonboard - I watch a lot of US based climbers and compared to here in the UK the grading is crazy soft. Nice to see that shown in this way.

Doesn’t matter how soft or hard your gym is as long as you are pushing your limits that’s what matters

great video as always, moon board is so tough, so getting a 5 and 6 for your first time is insane! I used to climb at a momentum gym, and it felt soft but as long as its consistent with its grading then that's all that matters. My favorite board is definitely kilter because I like the big, powerful moves off of relatively good holds and adjustable angles (and soft climbs for the ego boost). Keep up the good content!

nice climbing man, looking forward to more content

And also... you mentioned this - for overhangs, your footwork is definitely killing you. There was a moment where you moved out left to that circular hold, you would cross through and flag with a leg to take all the effort out of it - rather than frogging your way up.

Man that was such a great video - the quality and climbing was great, I wish you best of luck with your channel and hope the algorithm is kind to you.

Good vids Zach! Keep up the quality uploads and I'm sure the algorithm will favour you soon :)

Pretty interesting video as I often see videos of boulders in the US and they seem kinda soft from watching but I know that it's impossible to really tell from a video. The moonboard is definitely sandbagged (for reference I have climbed multiple 7C+/V10 outside but have only done up to 7B+/hard V8 on the moonboard)but at the same time it has a pretty distinct style that you can improve at quite quickly when you first start regularly climbing on it. From my experience the Kilterboard, even though it's maybe generally a bit soft is actually closer to outdoor boulders at my local crag gradewise than the moonboard benchmarks. It seems quite rare for gyms in Switzerland(where I live) to use Font or V-grades. I still have yet to visit a bouldering gym that doesn't use it's own grading system.

That first gym v4 you showed I was as like “ah y’know maybe those pinches are bad, depending on the top I could see like v3, maybe v4 if it gets harder” and then it just ended with that jug and I did a spit take lmao

the fact that you climb at Momentum is worthy of my subscription. My local gym is a momentum, so that makes me happy :D

Yeah man in I've climbed some 7c indoor in Berlin, outdoor 7b, but on the Moonboard could barely manage a 6c+. Moonboard is also just pure 40 degrees and hard af. I've heard that some people can do higher benchmarks but find some of the lower ones harder on a Moonboard. Nice vid though, enjoy your journey!

nice work dude. on the 2016 set I did all the v4 and v5 benchmarks and I swear there were some v5 benchmarks that were significantly harder for me than some of the v8 benchmarks

Best tip i recieved for system board climbing is to think of pulling with your feet like a claw rather than pushing. Also recommended doing some Romanian deadlifts for feet contact strength.

most underrated climbing RU-vidr. ( praying for the day when he can get a V0 at my gym)

2 tips to instantly improve moonboarding. 1: Brush thy board. 2: Weigh your feet as much as you possibly can, lower graded power board climbs can be techniqued through good tension.

So I find this kinda interesting to see, because I'm pretty consistently a V4 boulderer here in the UK, only climbed my first couple of V5s here in the last month or so. But I was out in Montreal for work late last year and decided to hit a couple of bouldering gyms while I was there. At one of them I flashed every V4 in the gym, climbed most of the V5s and two of the V6 (this is all before ever climbing my first V5 in the UK remember). Both gyms I went to felt about the same. So I feel like based on my limited experience in Montreal the gyms there were 1-1.5 V grades softer than the gyms I go to here in Scotland.

I almost think it’s because the moonboard puts a lot of emphasis on finger strength, and it’s overhang so you really can’t escape it. Other climbs as they get harder can push a lot of different parts of your muscles, so it can almost make it easier (unless you need to work on that muscle group). But I also climb mainly V4-V5 in a US gym, which although harder than other many other US gyms is still probably easier than many countries.

Jesus that spray wall in the background looks absolutely nuts. It's like two already generous ones side by side.

10:31 looks like you might have been able to get a cheeky hand jam in that hold

I personally loved the dab counter 👌

Don't worry man, my local gym in Italy is mostly inclined walls and roofs, is known for IDGAF stiff grading and I still struggle on the board. My consistent gym and occasional outside V5 becomes a sad V4 on the good days on the right problem. Harsh as it is, it still helps a lot with footwork, core/body tension, contact strenght and finger strenght. Also mental fortitude and perseverance in taking the painful fails

The Moonboard is known to be sandbagged, I reckon often by a couple of font grades, so 6b+ on the MB feels more like 6c+, 6c feels like 7a etc.

great video, my gym sets harder grades than moonboard so im jealous of your grading system🤣A V9 on moonboard feels easier that the V8s in my gym

one major issue with the moon board is even though it is standardized the size of the holds can vary a lot from board to board based on how the holds were sanded in the factory. So some moon boards are easier/harder than others

I hate inclined walls!! I also avoid them like the plague. Nice video!

Sorry to spam, I think you're a natural at this filmed climbing malarkey - nice one!

You should try momentum millcreek. I have heard it is on the harder side compared to Lehi.

I've noticed when you climb in different gyms the setters will have different flows and movement in mind and that can drastically change how you feel on the boulder. For example the v5 in the video looked pretty square on and didn't massively challenge you on body position but the holds looked about as shitty as v5s that exist outside of your gym. Moonboard will challenge you very specifically on strength which you don't need heaps of to climb up to and around v7, it's actually very common to feel sandbagged if you don't board climb bc your regular climbing will allow you to compensate strength in other ways but moonboard definitely will not.

My moonboard climbing is actually fairly consistant with my outdoor climbing. On Moonboard the hardest I've climbed was 7a/V6 (this year) and outdoors it was 7a+/V7 (last year). Though it's overhang there is some variety with pinches, jugs, crimps and small crimps, shoulder/dyno/static moves. Only critique point is that moonboards aren't very high.

worth noting that you'll see huge improvement once you start raining on the steeper walls, especially if you can already climb harder on less power reliant walls

i’ve climbed up to v7 indoors and tried moonboard for the first time recently. Was only able to send a v4 benchmark 😭

I have tried the kilter at 45 and tension 2 at 40, pb V8. Would love to give a go to the moon board, 40 degrees, bad holds and sandbagged grades it's all I live for.

Board climbing is a quite specific style of climbing, not some universal grading system. It doesn't always translate perfectly to other climbs indoor or out. I also tend to disagree with this very common saying that "gyms are soft" when it comes to the higher grades. You constantly see online "oh now way that is V10 looks like V6 in my gym" which to me is likely always wrong. I have climbed in gyms all around the country and tend to cap out at around V8-9, which is the same as my Kilter board benchmark range, and slightly above my moonboard benchmarks and tension board 2 benchmarks. Yet I can reasonably consistently climb V10 outside in a variety of styles and within a few sessions. Ultimately the point im trying to get across is that people get very practiced in a certain style (for my that would be outdoor climbs on granite/gneiss, for others that is indoor climbing). Then people assume that since it felt easy to them that it is "soft". I wouldn't beat yourself up over not climbing what you expected on the moonboard, you have to look at it in context. You may be skilled at other things instead!

Board climbing, especially the moonboard, is a nuanced technique in and of itself.

Im a stickler to correct moonboarding so i will mention couple things, using the side(arete?) of the board to smear or any sort of pressure is considered a dab. Also, each start should be a sit start. There may be gyms where the kick board is extra high which makes it impossible or way too hard but the kick board at your gym looks like the correct height. Also 6C V5 is different from 6C+ V5. It should be considered a grade of its own but you can simplify 6C as a softer V5 or V5- haha. Regardless I’m glad you climbed on mb!! It’s my favorite way to train. Followed to see your journey!!

Just sent my second v7 outside and at this moment my American New York gym v7s are harder. They have been changing grades slowly to better mimic outdoor grades and I feel like I’m stuck in v7s now lol but I can see improvements when I’m out so I’m ok with it all

UK is the same. Also keep in mind it not the same kind of climbing. I too avoided overhangs and roofs and struggle to keep tension compared to vertical or slabs. It’s just hard for beginners

In the US it depends where you are. The gym he normally climbs at does look soft, but I still go to a gym where sandbagging is the problem 🤷🏼‍♀️ I've climbed in different parts if the country and in France and found my gym to be one of the hardest I've gone to. I can go to nyc gyms out of shape and flash everything up to a v6. At some level between that and v9 there's a usually a huge jump in difficulty. Just depends where you are. I've also climbed for 12 years and climbing gyms changed in the US in that time, and part of that change of them on average getting softer.

I think the Kilter board is fairly true to outdoor grades (i.e. hard) at 50 degrees.

Be careful to not crimp every hole on the moon board, I injured myself doing that. Get used to grabbing them half crimp or in extension, that will force you to use more technique and take care of your fingers.

that black v5 looks super easy

Fellow Lehi momentum climber here, this gym is absurdly soft. For proof, look at the blue v3 on the back slab wall. That is a v1 if sandbagged. (I'm a v3-4 climber for reference) it kinda sucks, because every time I send a new grade I have to wonder if it is just misgraded, and I end up writing off major improvement as "just a fluke"

Kind've depends where you go. I got to two gyms and one of them a V5 is really V3 maybe V4 at most, but the other gym a V5 is like a v9 at the other gym and there scale only goes up to like 7 or 8. I wouldn't know because a V3 is a project grade there for me but the easy gym I can do V5 depending on the style. I will say grades tend to be soft at most gyms in the V1 to V4 range

A bit weird given that my friends couldn't even do a v2 at my gym; a v2 softly similar to that v4. Honestly not all climbing is raw strength, and often my hands get way torn up quicker on moonboard than a funky V8 that requires strength in very specific areas.

You’re right, but it’s the same for most gyms around the world. The reason is they label the easiest problem in the gym, which is basically a ladder, a v0 but it isn’t one. The next few grades are labeled v1 and so on to avoid confusion but everything is out of whack from the start. Minus about 2 or 3 grades and it should be right.

This video is very cute, haha! This is the 2019 set, BTW. I think it has a larger amount of accessible problems around v5-v8 range and nicer on your skin wooden holds. It is representatively difficult. The one thing I am seeing in your climbing of these steeper problems is disengaging your scapular retraction (letting your shoulder sag up) a lot. This is a mix of hand/finger strength and stability through the movement. Also, I would say you should aim to do say 15~ of a certain "Grade" problems on the MB to be able to say you're an "X" grade MB climber :) US Gyms often put very juggy holds in the middle of climbs, and this builds bad habits for climbers, imo.

The same goes for a lot of european gyms aswell, benchmarks are usually 1-2 gardes harder than gym grades

Keep in mind the Moonboard grades are sandbagged, so while gym grades may be soft, Moonboard grades are stiff

Might be a hot take but as long as grading in the gym is similar to that for outside grading in the area I have no problem with grades being soft or hard

I think it could be interesting to go have a try at the original problems that John Sherman was doing when he came up with the V system. They are the real benchmark. The Moonboard could be way off.

in my gym i can do v9 and have been projecting v10 and i was pretty confident in my ability for how little ive been climbing, but then i tried some moonboard climbs and on the 2016 i could barely do v7

I wouldn't think too much about moon board grading, especially on the wooden holds. Just climbing on the moon board is enough to maintain progress.

Even Ben Moon says that the moonboard is sandbagged, so maybe the gyms might be soft but still the moonboard grades are insane and hard to compare

It’s a different style of climbing man. It also depends on the year of the set too. Furthermore, it’s more finger and power focused. Gyms in NYC are super bagged. I climb harder grades in the Gunks compared to what I can climb outside. It also depends on the setting culture. In short, so many things.

Great case in point as to why grades are subjective. Find the climbs that inspire you, train the moves that you enjoy and work on weaknesses if you feel like getting better. That's it, honestly. Who cares about some random number slapped onto a climb... the holds are the same holds, the moves are the same moves regardless of what other people call it. It's essentially like chasing social currency to validate the effort you put into the climb, rather than appreciating the climb itself.

Dude, love the videos. Grades are fun, because grades are kind of stupid. I climb for a long time and I think board climbing is really cool. Kilter is the most fun, but doesn't do so much to get good skin or finger strength. And I think it is the most fun, because the grades are soft. For me the moon board is so much harder. But I am also tall and heavy. I believe that's not so beneficial for moon boarding. And comparing gym grades and board grades only makes sense to a certain degree. It's nearly two different categories. Like you would compare freestyle skiing with slalom or something. Anyway, just enjoy it and don't care to much about the grades. And honestly, I can do harder Boulders outdoors than on the moon board benchmarks, so maybe the moonboard is not "the real" grade. Truth is somewhere in the middle. Keep up the good work and don't do to much board climbing. I believe 60 to 90 minutes on a board are already a real good workout. Longer and the quality of my sessions suffer...

Also on moonboard the benchmark are given quite randomly... there are 7a harder than some 7c... and 7a extremly softer than some 6c 🤷🏼‍♂️ for a correct reference you should not try the most and least repeted ones

What kind of mad man set two pinks and a purple all on top of each other?!

U think kilter its more soft in grading compared to the moonboard?

Moonboard grades are insanely hard!

Gyms are climbing and outside is ROCK climbing. V grade was invented from rock and from my experience climbing 4 star classics in world class climbing destinations will tell you what grades mean by region. (Depending on beta and style of course)

I climb every bit as hard on the moonboard as I do on set boulders and on rock. I am weak but well rounded topping out at v8 on all 3

I'm pretty sure most people not from the US knows the US grades are soft yet people defend it like it's life and death

Ive climbed gyms all over the world and done my share of board climbing. I can tell you there's always an adjustment period when switching between gyms. You can get trained on the incline and holds and the grades start to feel softer. That said, this set at Lehi is a bit soft except that damn black V8 slab. The Millcreek boulders are a bit more inline with outdoor grades I've been told.

My fingers hurt with him full crimping EVERY hold

Tangent warning! Alright your video title sucked me in, and I just need to point out some things. So first, grades in general are all over the place, it doesn’t matter where you go, every outdoor area and gym and board is going to feel different, sometimes vastly so. I’m not hundred percent certain all the boards are this way, but I know for a fact that the hold pours for the moonboard are inconsistent as well, this means the same hold on a different board can feel better or worse. Benchmarks on the Moonboard are also generally considered stout difficulty wise comparing them to anything else is kind of a wild thing to do. Saying US gyms specifically is also an odd comparison as a lot of those stout benchmarks are from people here as well. Also to touch on the topic of gym vs outdoor grading, yes generally boulder grades in gyms trend towards easy until you start to hit V6/7 or 7a/7a+ this because outdoor grading can be utterly nonsensical sometimes. For instance you’ll often find V2’s in an outdoor area that feel the same as the V6’s in that same area. There’s almost no consistency in those grade ranges. Tangent over! Nice video.

I understand what you're getting at by comparing the Moonboard to a gym but I don't think it is the best way to compare. Moonboard is almost all power whereas climbs in a gym might be rated a certain difficulty because of very intricate techniques or body positions. While the Moonboard still requires good technique and body positioning, I think they don't relate enough to be able to compare. I do agree that compared to gyms in other continents US is rated easier, I don't know if you can test your gym's difficulty based solely on the Moonboard. I promise I'm not trying to hate because I actually loved this video I just wanted to throw this out there and see what everyone thinks.

definitely pretty sad how much traffic commercial gyms get for being soft. the gym in my town (being the only one in a really small town in europe) is sometimes honestly harder than some 2016 moonboard benchmarks... probably pretty accurate even compared to outdoors...

Im in the us and we have a board as well, our low grades are soft compared to the board (0-4), but after that the grades are similar and sometimes harder. so I believe that US gyms are not soft but this is just a poorly gauged gym

Moon board it is only about crimpy overhang climbing. It mostly benchmarked your finger and core strength.

Honestly I’m so lucky I live by a gym in the US that actually grades hard. When I climb on their moon board I can climb the same grades as they set. I guess that’s the benefit of going to an older gym.

I'd say for my gym its more of a difference in style than difficulty. My gym is more compy and moon-board and tension board are more traditional climbing. I'd say the difference in difficulty isn't that big if you account for the stylistic difference.

moonboard grades are all over the place alot of them are very sandbagged. I would compare outside grades to the moonboard since theyre usually more accurately graded then gyms

i climb pretty much only on moonboard and spray and i can climb better on the board than most commercial gyms

I know exactly what gym you're in because I visited SLC on a roadtrip last year, and out of every gym I've been to Momentum Lehi might have been the softest

My home gym doesn't have traditional grades and uses colors instead. My only source of comparison when it comes to grades is from my trip to fontainebleau last year. Because of this, almost every climb in american gyms look soft to me lmao

love your vids, buttttttttttt the moonboard like v 3 in my gym icl

My understanding is most gyms are soft until they get up into the v8 grades and above. Then they seem to be consistent with outdoor grades. Not sure why that is. Some folks even say once you hit v8 and above at a number of gyms it translates to harder grades outside. I never climb outside so I'm not too sure.

my moonboared grade is a grade lower than my gym grade (across 3 gyms) gym climbs are just really different. Moonboard 6b gym 6C. also importand; never look at toplogger, people vote way too high of grades

My gym is very similar too, it's most prevalent in chain gyms because they are told to set softer to attract the much more recreational crowd and there isn't anything wrong with that. From my experience it does get way way steeper at the top of the range though. Also BRO STOP FULL CRIMPING EVERYTHING 🤣

You shouldn't compare regular setting grades with MoonBoard grades.

I personally think gym shouldn't grade problems if they are just going to lowball all the climbs. Much better to use levels or colour tags instead i that case. Some gym owners told me their customers prefer gyms with soft grading, I find this hard to believe.

Dang I'm sad now because that's my gym

I feel like commercial gyms have softer grades and more locally owned gyms are definitely more accurate but it is what it is

I absolutely hate those V2 in my gym comments. Honestly, nobody cares about the gym of the guy in the comment section. If that guy want to show off, he's free to start a youtube channel.

my gym is graded harder than other uk gyms every time I go to another gym im like damn Im a v5 climber and then get smacked by a v3 when I get back lmao

Board climbing is it's own discipline, of course you suck at it the first time you do it. I started 2-3 grades lower on the board, but now all my hardest boulders are on a board.

ZP Climbs misses the point. US gyms are soft because the gym is a business and it's better for business when the customers feel good about themselves while there. Soft grades inflate ego and the customer is happy.

“Inclined walls” = slab. Overhang is the correct term. I hate myself for being like this but I cringe at hearing people say inclined walls.

nahh moonboard isnt true as well. its in between somewhere. i did a handful 7a's outside. moonboard 7a would be impossible

The us is just so big.

gg the moonboard 2019 set is (subjectively) soft ... try the 2016 set for more ego takedown. JK. Honestly, the climbs in your gym looked fine for grade ... ? I do think it's just different styles of climbing demanding for different strengths and skillsets.

Brother D12 is a pinch you’re gonna full crimp you’re way into a torn pulley

moonboard is insanely sandbagged tho so you're comparing two things which are completely out of whack with reality (outdoor grades)

as a routesetter i always cringe at idea of giving actuall grades to boulders at the gym. This grades arent well thought out and obviously will be soft as fuck. You cant even grade it properly after whole day of setting

if you want better finger gains stop full crimping everything and start half crimping, even on the gym sets. you'll climb a lower grade prob but it's better long term, and it's safer for your pulleys. you can also use that opportunity to practice technique and loading your feet up to offload the fingers. moonboard holds are v pinchy and you're full crimping a bunch of pinches