Using Undead in DnD 

I think the undead should be terrifying and I think it's unfortunate that modernity has made the undead mundane. I think level drain is good for that, but I don't care to use level drain b/c of the time it takes to recalculate a character sheet.

You enter the burial chamber and come across a stone coffin, bound in chains. You send your henchman, who you've trained as an apprentice for just this sort of task, and he picks the locks on the chains. He pushes the stone slab forward to open the coffin, but just as he creates a gap, a ghastly hand rises up and grasps his arm. He turns pale, then grey, then a necrotic black as his flesh dessicates before your eyes. He crumples to the floor, and the thing in the coffin begins to slowly push the slab away. Simultaneously much more terrifying than "you walk into a room and there are some skeletons hanging out" while subtly nerfing the wight (still in the coffin and has to get out to properly fight) as well as telegraphing to players what the creature is capable of. Undead are honestly my favorite type of monster, they're simple (one might even say, bare bones), but you can also touch them up if you like, for example by giving your skeletons bows, maybe this mummy really is like a low-level lich and has several spells prepared, etc.They're also possibly the most just plainly evil monster, only short of actual demons, so they fit very cleanly into that heroic evil-fighting fantasy. Fighting orcs is more or less just warfare, but cleansing an ancient tomb of undead, that just has a different feel to it and I like it.

One of the greatest things to consider when trying to instill horror at a D&D table, I read in a comment feed on a Runehammer video. "Horror is about disempowerment, D&D (heroic fantasy) is about empowerment. This is the dichotomy which needs to be considered when running horror at your table.

Eon had a lengthy discussion in a module about undead. Both for player character necro-wizards who want to build their own and what a necro-cult, independent NPC necro-mage or a secular coven of death-wizards could do. They suggested using the other features of skeletons. A group of skeletons can sit underwater in a river for a long time, put a group of them inside pond under some vegetation. They are fearless, skeletons will never roll morale no matter the odds. A skeleton never gets bored, two of them can stand inside a closet with orders to attack anyone who isn't x who enters the room and be left there for centuries. One of the nastier undead in that book was an extra desicated mummy-thing. They have so much mass removed that they're not a huge threat in a stand-up fight, but they are small enough that they can fit into weird containers. And people don't use them in stand-up fights, these are things who can sit inside a keg of brandy with orders to push the lid open and start knifing lone guards and sleeping people at night. Sometimes skeletons have a menial use. They have a basic order to defend themselves or what to do if their work is interrupted but their main job is something mundane like sweeping the floor. I've had dungeon-cleaners show up behind the party to wipe off their chalk marks on the walls.

I once used a banshee in a first level adventure, the players had to locate "ear-muffs of silencing", but only one of them could wear it. The banshee wasn't to be destroyed - only spoken to. The players spent a lot of time in the city library learning about banshees before they set-off to find the ear-muffs. Then when they got to the blighted land - the center of which had a blackened old gnarled dead tree where the elven-maiden had met her tragic demise, the players really fretted, they first cruelly sent in a low int ape-like creature I made up, and they watched it keel over and die some few feet into the blight. Then when the ear-muffed character went in, they couldn't tell if the banshee had screamed or not, and obviously wouldn't be able to hear the banshee in order to talk to it - so they waited for sometime and then just couraged up and went into the blighted land...

This is a great point on *how they are presented*. I think it’s best to present every skeleton and zombie in a weird way. It shouldn’t be easy to say “oh, that’s a zombie.” Uncertainty and powerlessness are the root of fear. Saying: “A shambling assembly of bones, stuck together with dried, rotten flesh and tattered fabric and chain drags a massive, rusted blade across the ground toward you, ethereal fire green in its eye sockets, it’s head stuck to its shoulders, dragging and shuddering.” Is it a zombie? A ghoul? A skeleton? Who knows??

Full disclosure: I've only used undead a few times. That being said, I believe we are giving zombies and skeletons too little credit by ignoring some of their qualities. The starting adventure from the 3rd edition boxed set had some great undead encounters. The skeletons do not move until the players enter a specific area. This, together with the fact that in older editions undead were undetectable with infravision, made them perfect ambushers. Zombies I usually have do a revolving door type of "death": unless they are sprinkled with holy water or reduced to -10 hp, representing dismemberment, they will stand back up after 1d4 rounds. Another quality of the undead that often gets ignored is that they are a logistics-free creature. No need for food/water/sleep equals being able to be actively moving 24/7. This means that the party trying to outrun an undead adversary could actually be an incredibly scary situation. That very powerful magic item that the players got from the tomb? The specter that was guarding it is now trying to get it back... and neither walls nor distance are going to stop it.

I've found that having undead be naturally very uncommon and used specifically to start telegraphing that either a problem is coming towards the players (necromancer, death knight armies, etc) or the players are starting to go towards a Serious Problem. Undead as something that must be made/empowered, and come from specific sources instead of just rising randomly in dungeons really helps with mood setting. You can easily drip feed this information to the players as well by either having the cleric/paladin be aware of this general setup, or having a local cleric get VERY worried when the adventures come back in and mention they had to put down some skeletons.

I have been working on a campaign idea that I plan on running soon, which involves undead. The primary antagonistic is a Lich with his two companions, from his living days, a Death Kinght and Greater Mummy. I call them the Dread Lords. Through their agents, they have convinced the Orc tribes to band together and attack all of the cities around them. The Dread Lords agents "support " the orcs by animating all of the Orcs' enemies to help in further attacks. This is just a ploy to get the Orcs to help them create more bodies for the undead army. The campaign is basically in two parts. The first part is the growing threat of the Orcs armies, and the second part is the undead assault with all the fresh bodies the Orc wars created.

So if ghouls create ghouls, where did the first ghoul come from? Sounds like an adventure.

Love to see your skill system from the turn undead table. I worked out a similar table for Druids interacting with wild animals. On the base DR they would turn the animals , on a higher DR they could speak to the animals , and on the highest DR they could command (an) animal(s).

Skeletons and zombies can be upgraded easily. If they are animated while still wearing their armor then they get to be a little tougher to kill.

I absolutely love using undead! They offer so many options and help with the realism of a dungeon as I don’t have to worry about how do they eat, what do they drink, and how are they not bored just hanging out down here?

I enjoyed this very much. l DM a session of basic fantasy rpg a couple of weeks ago. One Ghoul paralysed three of the five party members and severely wounded the other two party members before its defeat. Who would have thought a simple encounter with a couple of skeletons and ghoul would almost turn into a TPK.

crypt idea: the party is searching a crypt, looking for an old relic. The final room has one sacophgus inside, with a slightely skewed ratteling lid. When the party investigates, the lid falls to the floor, revealing a big undead carrion crawler, that has eaten the (un)dead body inside, and gotten too big to exit the sacophagus. reward: a magic ruby ring, the animal swallowed.

When my OSE campaign started I dropped the players in front of an entrance to a undead themed dungeon. None of them played cleric so I ruled that since the source of the undead was a curse they retained a basic intelligence and didn't realize they were dead. It was pretty fun to run and the players enjoyed it as well.

My first experience with level draining undead was with a Wight. I lost 1 level and spent all the gold we got in the adventure to get a high level cleric to restore his level. We also got Quested to go find some "treasure" for him. The DM was just loving that situation I had gotten everyone in.

I did this Old Trapped tome of your Kin. Someone had opened it for loot.. so you go to take a look, and find a lot of set off traps with piles of old bones and newly killed bodies in them... when you get to the end chamber you look up and hear a sound... someone throws a glass jar on the floor... It breaks open spreading this green gas that reanimated the dead...your move.

Another scary part of undead is their high morale - lesser undead DO NOT run and CANNOT surrender. This makes the horde of zombies that much more dangerous. If you mentioned this, I missed it. Apologies. Great video, nonetheless!

So many good points in this video. Undead are one of my favorite monster choices. You pointed out one of the big reasons undead are more frightening in previous editions: energy drain or level drain. That frightens all of my players. You also pointed to the special defenses of the undead, and I would just add that I like the idea that only bludgeoning weapons do full damage to skeletons. I like when the players get creative to overcome the defenses. Description is important. I love "telegraphing" as you say because not only does it warn the party about a deadly encounter, it's also a good way to set the mood through description. I'd love to see your skill system.

Ah mummies. Where they come from would depend on how egyptian your setting is. If very then mummes are everywhere the question is why are they moving? Did they "volunteer" to protect the tomb? Get cursed by a priest of Anubis? Flee the feather test? You enter the pharohs tomb. He rests in his golden sarchopas on top of a dias. Before him are four mummy warriors set to gaurd him in the underworld. scattered about the chamber between you and the dias are 12 not so mummified mummys. Apparently the low level workers who were to serve him in the afterlife. As you enter the room you hear movement. If there is no egypt equivalant then it would first be a question of how their made.

On treasure, you can take treasure from other encounters and mass it together into the main monster's horde to make it larger.

I’m running a game where a town’s doctors has become a necromancy but the PCs don’t know yet the doctor is even assigning them missions to get rid of his rivals!

Man, being a long time follower I have to say your channel is getting better and better. While I am now day primarily a solo player, I still follow your channel, because, though heavily hacked, I still play BX or variations there of. I always get excellent insights from your work. In then next pay cycle I will happily contribute to your patreon, if that is still a thing.

Great timing. I will testify that you are correct. Playing 2E with a group of new players and they went to an area that they weren't supposed to go. I not only telegraphed, I had an NPC flat out tell them there was a spectre. The tank lost levels and they ran. They were able to quest to get restoration scrolls, but on the next adventure, there was a ghost. (Converted "The Mysterious Tower" to 2E) They didn't know the difference and didn't want to do the mission because they were genuinely afraid of level drains. Great times.

Perfect timing. I just got my party to the Temple of Evil Chaos in Caves of Chaos. You just gave me the idea when the party returns to the temple from town to find a ghoul feasting on one of the zombies that they (the party) recently killed. As an aside, I am teaching my nephew how to play DnD on Roll20 and find that he treats my maps like a video game. I am not sure how to fix that other than playing pen and paper when we are next out visiting.

Damn great video! Greater restoration can bring levels back. So can quests to retrieve levels. It doesn't have to be permanent. I make vamps and others perform typical monster attacks to drian levels. For example, a vampire must feed, not hit the character to drain levels. Things like that.

Dude I don't understand why you don't have more followers your content is top tier. And your sound has gotten a lot better in later videos.

Halloween specials!!! I love a old school horror adventure. Great video! Blessings

I always have a Zombie Master who makes the zombies and directs them around.

This past weekend my level 3 party of 3 players decided to go back and kill the mummy they ran from the week before. 5e They beat it but two of the three PCs have Mummy Rot. This next session should be interesting. Edit: Your title cards fly past really quickly. I wouldn’t be opposed if you tacked on another second or two per card. The last one still said “Your Title Here” 😊

I don't always look at the screen while I'm absorbing your videos. Just realized you've upgraded your studio! Nice. Great place to record a new theme song for Down in a Heap 😉

Undead are one of my favorite monster types to use. No moral quandary about whether or not they should be forcibly returned to the earth.

Starting with Ghouls and Wights, I start telling my players exactly the mechanical aspects of some of the monsters. New players to BX/OSE can be really surprised by how deadly they are. I find that "giving away" the stats and abilities still causes a great deal of fear in the players - more so than any amount of narrative flair or verbal description.

Daniel - another great topic. Undead feature prominently in my campaign with a Greater Mummy as one of the BBEGs. I’m an ADnD / 1/2e guy but have revamped Turning to be more like Pathfinder/3.5 with Clerics able to use Turning to turn or destroy undead or heal by laying on of hands. I also tweaked the Turning Table to give clerics (and Paladins) a bump as there is a stretch of 9-13 where they enjoy no advancement in Turning so I split the difference between 14th+ to give them a bit more. For higher powered undead (Spectres, Groaning Spirits, Ghosts, Vamps and Liches) I have taken the tack of requiring special methods to kill / vanquish. Sure you can hack your way to a temporary win, but to permanently destroy you’ll need to meet some special condition and/or method. For my Greater Mummy, it must be physically defeated then have it’s preserved heart and brain (in specially protected canopic jars) stabbed through with a magical weapon of +3 or greater bonus, then have a high priest perform a ritual (including a Turn, Exorcism, and Dispel Evil) to destroy its essence.

4k crisp quality. i can every hair in your beard, love it

Awesome video my friend, I would totally love to see a video of how to turn a cleric’s turn undead in to a skill system

Bloody marvelous thumbnail, boss.

As far as 'where do mummies come from' I think you're pretty close on the 'Lich' thing. But rather than being a Magic-User/Wizard, I imagine it as Cleric. When people think Mummy they think Ancient Egypt for the most part (and since D&D pull from pulp, we'll go with the same, as it's the source inspiration.) Well, the Mummies of Ancient Egypt were Pharaohs (King/Priest combination roles, basically) and High-Ranking Priests. You can play around and interpret however you want, but the idea that certain religious orders would undergo rights to turn their High Priests into Mummies feels thematically on point, and allows something that works as an explanation in B/X and doesn't step on the toes of the Lich in later games, rulesets and bestiaries. I remember reading an article describing specific Lich-Like creatures for different classes. Druids binding themselves into groves as like a fungal undead, using spores to feed on the lifeforce of creatures that enter. Undead Bards with their souls bound to Concert Halls/Auditoriums, etc. Undead Rogues merging with Shadow to become Shades. All sorts of neat concepts there to play with beyond just "Lich" and "Death Knight" style stuff, but all serving a similar purpose.

Of all the monsters in dnd I think they really did a good job in the creation of their undead monsters. I must admit I used an alternative to level drain because, although it was terribly effective in scaring players, when it happened it really, REALLY pissed the PC's off and put a complete downer on the whole session. Eventually I decided to have those specific undead drain strength instead, or sometimes I would make a random roll to determine which trait was drained.

A few OSR games have changed Turn Undead/Unholy into a spell. Sometimes it was rewritten with a broader range of targets. They let you Turn Unholy against a demon for example. The definition can be left loose like "unnatural evil", and let you define what that means in your campaign as long as you're not turning bears and evil peasants.

This really made me want to run some undead monsters, great ideas!

Skeletons are what killed my very first character. This is when I realized that a Thief didn't make a very good fighter.

This is a little bit nasty but since its that time of the year, I once was applying for a job of picking up the deceased and visited a mortuary in the process. We looked at a lot of dead bodies there to see if I was accustomed to the job. Although some people deal with dead bodies every day casually, I did not want the job anymore after that first encounter with them. Although I wasn't fidgety at the place and at some level enjoyed the visit out of pure morbid curiosity, I was happy to walk out of there and not return until its by being carried feet first. Seeing the especially badly decaying dead is existential terror to all human senses. The smell is unspeakable, you literally can't describe it. The sight is nothing you want imprinted to your memory. And normally they don't even walk about the place. The clerics are the fantasy culmination of exactly those people who take it as a profession to deal with the deceased. Normally its the dead that turn YOU.

Although I am playing a hybrid game here is what has developed in my campaign. Vampires galore. A blood plaque infected a large port city and the kingdom quarantined it, forcing it to become a city state. That’s one snippet. We know vaguely what caused vampires to exist. Now… Distant stellar travel, equated to a form of bodily Astral Travel, takes longer than a living being could accomplish. Not so for a cognitive undead. Ships not requiring life support systems, being able to survive a hull breach in the darkness of cold airless void of space and having super human strength and other features makes being a vampire appealing and necessary for the long distance space traveler. Those choosing to be vampires are of a cult of doomsday believers. This belief began after the Dark Astral incursion when the Mirror of Mental Prowess was fractured. I left that last part to entice… 😆

Permanent stat/hp drain is something I've seen as alternatives to level drain. It still makes players think twice, the idea of getting drained down to Con 7 or 4 is scary. We found that it equalizes how characters of different class reacts. High-level characters can still die instantly if they're drained to Con 0 or become greatly weakened with a -1 lower Con adjustment. A level 0 commoner can still lose a lot of Con without instantly dying.

Undead creatures in my homebrew system are more powerful than the "average" undead in D&D, because they are essentially indestructible by nonmagical means. You can batter a skeleton or a zombie down, but if you don't beat them with spells, magical or blessed weapons or pour holy water on their remains, they will get back up at full health in a few rounds.

Thanks for this useful video. 🤗

Geezer here.... I rule it a feat, turning undead that is. Gaming on.

Gonna be a fun month of videos! I'm definitely curious about the skill system you mentioned. I've always just used d20 roll under ability and added penalties as appropriate

Late to the party but thanks for the video. I decided to retrofit Curse of Strahd to OSE and run it for a new campaign, so I'll be having more than enough undead to put all of this into practice.

Great video, Daniel (as usual), really got me thinking about Undead and how better to utilize them during the game -- Also, I'd like to hear about the skill system you mentioned.

Great video. Ocotober/horror themes - great! Can't wait for the next one!

In regards to players should be terrified, I think you said, of undead. IM not a D&D player table top role player but have started playing some old GoldBox D&D games after Baldurs Gate 3 came out and it perked my interest. Played one as a teenager, I think it was called Champions of Krynn maybe. The first I played recently is called Pools of Radiance and yes I was terrified of the level draining undead. So much so that I was very tempted to use the more modern game addon which would have repaired the level drain. In the end I chose not to utilize that function as I noticed that every quality of life function I used, for me, seemed to diminish the experience. Definitly added to the game the undead did. In the end I just accepted that my party may very well come out of clearing the undead zone without having gained any experience. However they would gain gear which would help them advance and make them more capable. It was quite painful seeing a level disappear and to have the temple priest only able to restore the missing level, but not the xp I had had over and above that even if it was only one less xp point than required to advance to the next level. Very painfull. Yes. Undead scared me. I like that you add real emotion to the game. Im just in the process of completing the fourth game in that series, Pools of Darkness, and I have found that maybe I have put a bit too much effort into making my characters much stonger than an average person. What is the point of finding a set of Gauntlents of Ogre Strength when my fighter already has 18(95) strength? Im finding that takes the fun out of it a bit. In the next game Im planning on dropping the game addon that automaps ans such, and not clicking the reroll character button so many times. Interesting vids.

Great video as always brother. I like using Undead, paralysis and level drain in my 2nd Ed based game. Will be using it in my upcoming BECMI game. For ghoul paralysis we use an old table from a Dragazine, roll D6 1-2 off hand, 3- weapon arm, 4- left leg, 5 right leg, 6 whole body. When one leg is paralyzed you have to roll under your Dex on D20 or fall. Edit: Forgot to say I would be very interested to hear your version of the Turn ability as a skill system. 2nd Edit: Husking the retainer or npc is another one I use often. It really helps with the atmosphere and letting pc's know it just got real.

i'm looking forward to the october content. i like the idea of using undead as "hey, this is important" markers. that's genius. i've basically only ever seen them used as scenery/filler encounters.

Changing the turn undead chart into a skill system?! Well, that’s brilliant! Thank you for your work, Daniel

As for using undead. I definitely prefer a slow build up; “Don’t let this get outta hand,” style. Though that isn’t the case with my Halloween game. I run a Ravenloft campaign, and its gotten very wild/bombastic use of the undead out of me. Particularly with Flesh Golems as they’re my second favorite monster. Its also led to domain spanning metaplots involving the Vampire Strahd. Point is, less is more when it comes to undead. Use full on invasions carefully and sparringly oh and A supplement im trying to write is going to be a take on a Manual of Fleshgolems and playing in Lamordia.

It doesn't sound like you use morale in your games cuz if you did you woulda brought up how turn undead is the only way to make them flee. Morale rules make it immediately clear why undead should be scary. Even 6 skeletons or zombies is a risk to a party if they relentlessly pursue, don't eat or negotiate, and fight to the death. Charm doesn't work. Negotiating doesn't work. Dropping rations doesn't work. And every fight is a fight to the last. That's not even getting to ghouls and wights and stuff! Heed boromirs words "there's an evil there that does not sleep."

I love undead and want them to be terrifying! I want them to be feared by players and characters. With that said, I do not level drain because players complain… INSTEAD UNDEAD GIVE EXHAUSTION! (The players complained more, but I was happy)

Great video and very informative. Love undead in games.

Definitely interested in a video on using the turn undead roll as a skill system, that sounds really interesting and useful!

Necromancers are so very good at... making friends... 🖤

Great video Daniel, thanks!

I love the concept of level drain with undead. It's so much scarier.

AD&D2ndE had Dragon magazines which cover monster ecology, which despite having the Complete Guide to Humanoids they had no source book on playing undead and you had those Gate Keepers. But there was those Ravenloft Van Richten guide books written in the first person account on hunting vampires, werebeasts, mummy/ancient dead, ghost, lich, .. etc. These books were in part put out by TSR to counter Whitewolf/World of Darkness (WoD) vampire and werewolf. But do to the political/social climate TSR put in their books it was still not encourage to role play vampires or werewolves in D&D. Also Ravenloft monstrous compendiums had single monsters such as a N/PC cleric becoming a ghast as a unique undead with greater cunning. Samuria vampire and a lonely medusa. 2.) To make an " Official " guide book campaign setting to shut up the Gate Keepers at local game shops, TSR AD&D2ndE came out with " Reverse Dungeon," where it is the players PC goblins, hobgoblins, other monsters and undead defending their lair from normal " PC adventures." So twist a stand alone double adventure site, start the players' PCs out as a rogue bandit camp in a set of caves or ruin keep dungeon. Have them run a few games and turn them into Ghouls to defend their .. crypt .. from living adventures. After that send normal PCs run by the players to clear out the ghouls. Since they know first hand how under handed they can run ghouls they be more nervus in combating ghouls themselves. b.) Then WotC 3rdE came out and they gave everything ability stats, and ghouls had a high enough Charisma to cast spells like a sorcerer. So I up the ghoul CR xp award and gave each ghoul a couple one time use spell like effect combat enchantment to add flavor for encounters. Such as one hit use single attack Invisibility, double running speed for charging and run down effects. Mage Armor or anything that would mess with the PCs' heads, such as Mimic Sound/ Ghost Sound to do a baby crying sound to bait PCs. As for mummy, keep the Dread Glaze effect, and make them all 3rd-level clerics or soldiers, slow mental up take but high cunning. c.) Other monster videos on youtube suggested that all undead skeletons and zombies are animated by Negative plane energy beings. PCs make a wisdom check roll or Spot check at a given DC to notice a very alien evil intelligence within a zombie eyes that is trying to figure things out. The longer you fight a given group of zombies, the smarter they get. d.) Shadows, they slowly stalk the PC, and the stress of waiting for the next bugbear or ogre to attack they roll the PC to take wisdom/moral 1d2 temporary dmg each hour and str/con 1d4dmg per hr from carrying their gear into combat. After a few failed saves they are near panic and have to Quickly retreat/ flee the dungeon. Start this off as a stander effect of exploring any New given location to cover up any future Shadow strength drain effect dmg. Till the PC get lost in the dark. Did a couple of games where a bandit party set themselves up in some ruins and other than Shadows being low int, we rolled the Shadows slowly feed from the bandits/Players' PCs over a couple of weeks till they start to mentally break from bad dreams from getting their str drained in their sleep. Stress Gothic horror. e.) Due to the quicker level gain from WotC 3rdE, and how the classes of cleric, wizards, and sorcerer worked. Along with PC gaining xp from killing large/giant rats : rabbits, and ravens/chickens with a sling. We created more than a few 3rd-level cleric as folk magic users learning Speak with Undead to talk with Shadows and using Summon Monsters. Our playing group from my last gaming shop 15 years ago, was big into Ravenloft and Call of Cthulhu Lovecraft horror. With 3rdE monster templates, we just treated Shadows as being lesser versions variants of ghosts.

Great vid, very interested to see that pseudo skill system.

during halloween sessions, i have a playlist of ~mostly~ instrumental music on shuffle. occasionally, the music will be a halloween classic like Monster Mash, Ghostbusters, etc. if the playlist hits Spooky Scary Skeletons, skeletons attack the party. {*,;;,*}

As kids, we hated the level drain with powerful undead. We were more apt to accept character death, if that makes any sense. You make a great case for it though, and I'm far more apt to use that in the old school games I run going forward. Level drain seems to make those undead more than just another bag of hitpoints.

I think undead are more ubiquitous than mundane. They fit almost anywhere and can be pumped up to an actually scary creature. As for level drain, I definitely prefer draining a creature’s stats or ability scores. In 5e if a stat hits 0 that kills the character. I believe this applies to almost any stat down the line

Excellent stuff

I love undead, and they are good foes for playgroups including younger players. They are clearly evil and there are no moral dilemmas when facing and killing them (contrary to brigands, bandits, etc.)

Intelligent undead the have a loot should use all the magic items available to them. Zombies with tot grubs in them is my favorite

I love this video!

I recommend to see the Barrowmaze mega-dungeon, and use as a great references for a lair of undead monsters.

Love the channel! I use STAT drain instead of level drain. So it drains d4 STRENGTH or something. Or even just one point of it. This is terrifying enough abd you don't need to recalculate a lot of stuff

Because level-drain is so demoralizing , even for grownup players, I think I’ll use the monsters that cause that either for a grand finale or for the start of a campaign where the PCs get slaughtered early by Undead and then play AS Undead PCs.

Great channel!!!

I don't like level draining. I understand the importance of risk in roleplay games, but the treasure next room rarely is valuable enough to make for the loss. When it comes to wights, spectres and shadows I prefer to drain hit points permanently (The more powerful the undead, higher the dice rolled). I also prefer the 5e rules for vampires when it comes to blood drinking, mainly because they actually drink blood instead of just draining levels with a touch.

I like the fear factor that level drain provides, but the practicalities of it are quite negative in terms of gameplay. First, the devastating reality a player feels when confronted with losing levels. It’s all fun and games until a hit actually lands, but when two levels of memorised spells immediately evaporate from the character’s mind, along with a bunch of hit points, that is one depressed player right there, and watching your spell save numbers go up instead of down is pretty demoralising. Secondly, the administration required to rewind a character a couple of levels. How many HP did they roll for each level? Do they suddenly lose all their followers if below level 9? Working this out is just not fun. Thirdly, level damage is pretty abstract. I mean, what is the context of level damage in real world terms? It is used to strike fear, but it doesn’t actually make sense. Finally, having what was a 10th level party of five adventurers suddenly made up of two 10th levels, one 8th, and two 4th levels can just break a campaign. What the solution is I don’t know. What I do know is losing levels is scary as hell and that’s what undead should be.

great video!!!

Undeads should be scary, grotesque and off-putting. Which is a fertile ground for contrast. Adding another theme like romantic or tragic might serve the adventure. With magic items on brand with its angst, telling part of the story of course. Optionally make it seem to be a douchey kind of undead and just after players put it to rest they start to uncover the second bottom which might or might not include honor, betrayal, love or famly.

Great cover! Are you quoting iron maiden? XD

Possibly best video yet.

Daniel, great stuff as always. I have a question as a new DM for my 4 sons, how do you go about the information discovery about a new type of monster? how much is ingame learning and how much is "hey guys, you might lose a level if this monster hits you?"

I think undead and constructs lose some of their punch if you don't use morale rules. Enemies that always keep advancing are only scary if others will flee.

Most players I know would rather have their characters die than suffer level drain.

Great video as usual!!! I haven’t used level draining in my DND game yet as my group members are all under 13. However, I’m wondering if you have seen DMs use the undead to permanently age your character. Especially if you are maintaining a calendar for your game getting 5-10 years older for every hit could basically kill your character. I can’t imagine too many 70-80 year old adventurers…Any thoughts?

Odd that there are not different levels of undead. Like Dracula and his harem of vampires. They are clearly different levels. (I'll have to add my own variants). Also, I am not going to call monsters by name until the players figure out what they are. To aid in this I'll create greater and lesser Books of the Dead with descriptions and names. A cleric who us properly trained receives the lesser. A cleric from a zero level campaign like N4 Treasure Hunt will need to find one. Greater books can be found, studied, ir quested for.

Great video! I'm not a fan of permanent level drain monsters. It's just tooooo harsh. Many a time playing 2e in the old days the party would face down giants and drow and other dangerous things ... but a single spectre or wraith or wight - RRUuNNN!!! Paralysis, mummy rot, etc all fine. But level drain, either give it a save or give it a duration (even a very long one, like weeks/months or until the end of the adventure, etc).

I've never understood how OSR players can be okay with the conceit that character death is not uncommon but at the same time they hate the idea of level drain. Is dying really better than losing a level or two?

Sorry this is unrelated to the undead video, I just thought this might get a faster response. But I am experimenting with combining b/x d&d with 5e and was wondering why they created the b/x fighter with no abilities. I believe its for an easy to use class but I wanted to know if anyone else had any ideas to share. Again sorry for the unrelated post.

Don't like the fact you can't turn again. I see it the way in exorcism movies the priest keeps praying and praying till the demon goes away. Or the rolling chance may be seen as the power that build up by the minute and the effort.

Wow. First ?

Undead make up almost half of the monsters in the first two decades of the game. May as well "git gud" at dealing with them.

Zombies and skeletons have treasure class "nil" which makes me a little sad 😢 but come up with a story and give them some loot haha Oh good, you covered that