Why weren't torpedos shot out of the water with secondary guns? If a warplane can intercept one surely 6 inch and 3 inch gun shells would make short work of them?
@@canuckster24 Gato had a test depth of 300 ft, and the Balao had a test depth of 400 ft due to improvements in the steel and pressure hull construction. Nowhere near what the Germans could do but that was mostly due to the increase in quality of life features found on the both the Gato and the Balao class design, such as air-conditioning which required ventilation through sealed bulkheads that weakened the overall strength of the pressure hull. I wont say that they were thinking that they didn't need to get to those depths, but I will say that they were thinking that crisscrossing the Pacific Ocean in a bobbing tin can with little to no air flow made for a crappy tour of duty. The previous S class boats were nick named "pig boats" for a reason! The designers were just trying to get a realistic fleet boat delivered to the Navy. The boat had to have the range, the creature comforts, and speed that the Navy needed to fight in the pacific. The Gato was it.
"...sunk a train, and acquired a rocket launcher from somewhere in order to perform night time shore bombardments." Oh lord I lost it there lol. You should do a separate video on that particular sub, that sounds like a fun story.
It's a great story. Basically they got frustrated because Japanese stopped sailing anything but wooden boats towards the end of war, so they went in deeper and deeper in search of targets.
Fun note about the fish names: They built so many subs that they ran out of good names. So the USN employed a man to look at fish that only had scientific (Latin) names at the time, and give them common names, which could then in turn be applied to submarines.
Like many Cub scouts in Michigan I had the privilege to spend a night on the Silversides in Muskegon. Since my father was our Pack's leader, him and I got to spend the night in the Captain's quarters which was helpful with all of the snoring in the other sleeping areas. For an 8 year old who loved the film "Run Silent, Run Deep", this was an awesome experience.
The initial 3"/50 was also capable of antiaircraft fire, but it was a terrible gun for surface action, with a shell weight barely adequate to penetrate the hulls of larger merchantmen, let alone a warship. They were armed with this inadequate gun specifically to discourage surface action. The Pacific war changed from mostly using torpedoes to actually needing an effective deck gun by late 1943. The remaining Japanese shipping was mostly shallow draft sampans and coasters that couldn't be sunk with a torpedo. The 3"/50 was generally swapped out with a 4"/50, a very effective gun for surface action. Many skippers wanted to retain their 4"/50s when the official armament became the 5"/25. They avoided enough yard time to allow the gun to be changed and generally did whatever subterfuge they could to avoid losing the 4"/50. A few managed to retain the 4"/50 right up to the end of the war. Most skippers did come to recognize the hitting power of the 5"/25 gun, especially when a director was mounted in the last year of the war. The 5"/25 needed no preparation for diving, unlike the 4"/50, which needed a muzzle plug and the telescopic sight removed. Although the 5"/25 was theoretically capable of antiaircraft fire, the Mark 40 mount only allowed a maximum elevation of 40 degrees rather than the other marks of 5"/25 gun mounts that allowed an elevation of 85 degrees. This made the wet mount submarine gun a single purpose antiship piece. Even if it had been capable of antiaircraft fire, it's doubtful a submarine would have chosen to fight it out with an aircraft 10 miles away flying at 15,000 feet rather than diving to avoid the fight. The 40mm gun(s) was an effective antiaircraft weapon at the 3 to 5 miles range a sub might have to fight off an aircraft that jumped them at the surface. It was also found the gun did a good job of shooting up and sinking many of the lightly built Japanese merchant shipping remaining toward the end of the war.
Anti-airceaft armament became moot anyway because of operational doctrine of diving whenever a plane was spotted regardless of identification. The chances of shooting down an aircraft with a handful of guns, no matter how good they were, before the plane could inflict damage either from a depth charge, bomb or machine gun fire, or even radioing the sub's position was stacked too high against the submarine crew.
@@davidkaminski615 I was writing about the late war period in the Pacific. Submarines were spending the vast majority of their time hunting on the surface. The biggest danger was being jumped by a Japanese aircraft before they had the chance to dive. At that point, a pair of 40mm guns were pretty potent weapons against aircraft.
@@paulboy9101 Part of it was familiarity, part because it was the hardest hitting gun available in 1942, and part because the 4" round was considered the largest that could manhandled on a sub. Many sub commanders started out on destroyers, and the interwar period was primarily 4 pipers armed with the 4" guns. The round weighed about 63 pounds compared to 80 for the 5" gun. The 4" mount was relatively easily swung and trained for a manual gun. The accuracy of the 4" was well known and liked by skippers and crews alike. The downsides were a very long barrel that interfered with training abaft of the beam, having to be prepared for diving with a muzzle plug, and a recoil of about 28 inches, more than twice that of the 5"/25. Crewmen needed constant practice to avoid that recoil. If being hit by the recoiling gun didn't kill you, even a brush by would knock you overboard. The 5" gun had twice the rate of fire and considerably more penetrating power. Even though the rounds were heavier, it took less rounds in a shorter period of time to sink a target.
Sar Jim - thanks. That is a lot of recoil. There was a lot of other up-gunning during the war too. The poor performing 1.1in/75cal was replaced by the 40mm Bofors and the water cooled .50cal MG was replaced by the 20mm Orlikon on surface ships in 42/43. The 20mm Orlikon in turn began to be replaced by the 40mm Bofors on surface ships (last months of the war). What AAA guns were on our subs at first?
My dad was a sonarman in subs during WW II. His sub was on its way through the Canal to reach Pearl. They were recalled after the bombing of Hiroshima. Many years later, he took me to Cleveland and we went aboard USS Cod. I must have been about 7 y.o. and loved every minute.
The 'where' they got that rocket launcher is actually interesting in its own right. The Navy had been using them for shore bombardment for a while but when the Kamikaze attacks began they spent some time and effort into seeing if they could use those rocket launchers as an air defense system. It didn't go beyond tests (compared to the Japanese, British, and Germans who actually fielded rockets for shipboard defense... and didn't achieve much with them). The captain of the Barb heard they had the rocket launcher from the test laying around and borrowed it.
Muskegon is pronounced mus-KEY-gun. The Silversides is a favorite overnight experience for Michigan Cub Scouts. Besides the sub itself, the museum has a very nice collection.
For those who don't know, barbs train kill was by the crew going a shore and planting explosives on a bridge. go read up about this, the stuff that sub got up to is just madness.
After many weeks of breathing an air/diesel fume mix, submariners tended to get a bit balmy. The buzz they must of had to go ashore to do a Butch Cassidy on a Japanese train must have been enormous.
Mus Kee' gun, Michigan. Your understated delivery belies the fact that this was a very successful class of sub. Only surpassed during the war by Balao class, and understanding that the Balao class were simply an upgraded, slightly improved Gato. But a good overview, thanks
Great video! The scale models added a very helpful visual perspective. Going through the wartime modifications, with the bridge being progressively cut down and armament added would be a good side discussion, along with postwar GUPPY changes.
The only things "lake" about the Great Lakes is in their name and they have water. Anyone who has spent time boating on them or living next to them knows they are not mere lakes.
One of the reasons she still capable of getting underway is she's spent most of her life in freshwater on the Lake. The typical corrosion problems of saltwater have been avoided so the hull is in excellent shape.
"Acquired a rocket launcher from somewhere." From what I've heard the sub fleet of WW2 was a bit low on the logistics chain, and so they got creative. Knowing that and hearing that bit about the rocket launcher, I can't help but laugh and want to buy those brilliant, thieving jackasses a beer.
The US Army captured some Kraut Nebelwerfers and duplicated them, but decided not to deploy the rocket launchers in the ETO for fear of incurring friendly fire. So the Marines got some. They called them "Buck Rodgers Guns". They had them on Iwo and Oki. If an enterprising Sub Skipper offered a thirsty Marine Gunny a couple cases of whiskey for a launcher and ammo, the temptation might have been overwhelming, especially on a moonless night. I wasn't there, of course, but things worked that way in the Pacific back then. Just sayin'...
They obviously had a good supply officer, or more likely supply clerk. You could buy him a beer but you would likely be giving his mate your money to buy his supply of alcohol to give right back to him. when you got back to your truck it would be empty, the tires would be a lot more worn than you remember and the wheels would no longer match and the engine would be missing a few cylinders, if it was even the same truck. all these could be replaced or upgraded behind the warehouse for a bit of cash or other goods as available
Yup! 28 boats total. The first 10 were Gatos, the last 14 Balaos, and the 4 inbetween were technically "Galaos." They were built to Balao specs except for their pressure hulls, which were still only rated to 312' test depth.
@@MikeB3542 Just make sure to get the top bunk. The Scouts loved it, and the docents did a great job of running them around and telling a good story. They were all out by midnight. www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=10107266%40N03&view_all=1&text=cobia
@@MikeB3542 I actually slept like a log. Admittedly I was a bit large and almost didn't fit in the top bunk in the aft torpedo room. Was a great trip and the museum itself is amazing.
Great video but with one correction. George H Bush's Avenger didn't happen to crash in the ocean. His aircraft took a direct hit from a large caliber AA gun while attacking IJA positions on chichijima. " on August 1, 1944, and San Jacinto commenced operations against the Japanese in the Bonin Islands. He piloted one of the four Grumman TBM Avengers of VT-51 that attacked the Japanese installations on Chichijima[10] on September 2, 1944. His crew included Radioman Second Class John Delaney and Lt.(jg) William White.[4] His aircraft was hit by flak during the attack, but Bush successfully released bombs and scored several hits.[4] With his engine ablaze, he flew several miles from the island, where he and one other crew member bailed out;[11] the other man's parachute did not open.[4] Bush spent four hours in an inflated raft, protected by fighter aircraft circling above, until the submarine USS Finback came to his rescue." My Hat's off to the man.
Bush was lucky - 8 other US pilots that month were captured on Chichijima, the island he was bombing. All 8 were beheaded, and at least one cannibalized. The general in charge was hung after a war trial.
My dad served on the Ray USN-271. She was mothballed after the war and brought back and refitted as a radar picket sub serving in the Mediterranean in the 1950s and redesignated USN-271R. She was struck from the fleet in the early 1960s and sold as scrap. I have an insignia plate from the sub that Pop somehow obtained after she was scrapped.
It's pronounced Mus-kee-gun. It's a nice little lakeside town about an hour north west of Grand Rapids. But between the Dutch, Polish, and Native American names running around here in West Michigan, pronunciation is always a bit of a crap shoot. I'll leave it to you to figure out how to pronounce Hamtramck. Also, did you say that a submarine sunk a train? As in a locomotive? Being a land based vehicle, one would think they wouldn't be vulnerable to sinking.
Allen .Berge I concur. Yours is a better phoneticization. Like the winter biathlon competitor says when she's getting ready to go out on the course: "Where's muh ski gun?" Answer: "In Michigan" Athlete: "Oh, crap!"
"Converting the Japanese merchant marine into a wide variety of marine conservation projects. And who says war is entirely bad for the environment?". Of the many great lines on this channel, this is certainly a top 5!
I had heard the the Gato class had a new analog targeting computer which was a scaled down version of the targeting computer on a battleship. Once the torpedo problems were worked out this made them more effective hitting a ship with a torpedo.
@@ramal5708 Yes a torpedo circling back at the sub that fired it was a common problem well after WWII. The analog targeting computer was excellent for it's time. The problems that needed to be worked out were: 1) The firing pin was weak and deformed on impact and not detonating the warhead. 2) The magnetic detonator would also fail to sense the ship above it and fail to detonate the warhead. 3) Setting the running depth also did not work well. When set to pass under the ship it could go too deep or shallow and strike the hull where the weak firing pin failed to detonate the warhead. Or it ran too deep and passed harmlessly under the ship. The problems went into service because of inadequate testing. To test the firing pin three torpedoes were fired at a submerged cliff face. Two of them failed to detonate. There was no money in the budget for further testing so the torpedo went into service with a 60 percent failure rate.
There were 3 analog computers in widespread use. 1) the Norden bombsight 2) the fire control computer used for surface gunnery 3) the TDC torpedo data computer. In all the instances of heavy depth charging it never failed to work. About the size of a phone booth.
The Diesel engine that became the life saver of the Fleet submarine, was the Fairbanks-Morse. Admiral Richard O'Kane, XO USS Wahoo and Captain USS Tang called them rock crusher for their dependability. During the course of the war, the Navy tried a new engine, the HOR. This was a disaster. They were unreliable to the point of tear. Every sub equipped with the HOR engines went into major overhaul just to replace the engines with Fairbanks-Morse system. Post war the Navy again tried to install a different engine in new build subs. The engine was the GM Pancake engine. Once again an abject failure. Fairbanks-Morse to the rescue. This required lengthening the hulls of subs that had been built to accommodate the compact GM engine. Fairbanks-Morse provides diesel auxiliary engines for the Ohio-class and the Seawolf-class.
More than just the Ohio and Seawolf classes. Practically every nuclear submarine built by the USN since the Nautilus, has had an auxiliary diesel generator powered by some form of the Fairbanks-Morse 38 ND diesel engine, the same basic engine design used by the Gato class. The gentlemen that designed that engine truly deserve the title "engineer". Over 80 years on, and that same basic engine design is still in active service - quite the testament to how good it is. During my time in the USN, I went to 3 different schools on different forms of that engine, and on one occasion had the opportunity to work directly with a tech rep from Fairbanks-Morse troubleshooting the governor system on our boat's diesel generator. IMO, for the definition of the word "reliable, Webster's Dictionary should have a picture of the Fairbanks-Morse 38 ND engine.
If I'm not mistaken the Fairbanks-Morse diesels were off-the-shelf diesels for the Locomotive Diesel/Electric market. That's why they were already in production pre-War. Post war they were mounted in streamlined aluminum chassis "Car Bodies" and ran on the major railroads. Of course the same can be said for GM's ElectroMotive Division powerplants.
The opposed piston Fairbank-Morse engine was reliable because of its simplistic design. No "heads" no valves, the only reason that it had cams was to run the injector pumps. Two for each cylinder. It had fewer moving parts than most other engines.The woodward governors were simple design also. A little cranky till you mastered the "touch" of the comp adjustment. Great engines overall.
@@mitchelloates9406 Ironically, considering their success in marine applications, they didn't do well in what was to be their main market, diesel electric locomotives. Without the dedicated engineers of the Navy at hand to baby them, the OP engines gave no end of trouble. FM tried some fixes to make the engine more bulletproof, and some worked, but the engine had developed a bad enough reputation that sales went into a long decline after 1950, with the last American locomotive produced in 1958. EMD's introduction of 567 engine sealed their fate
Two significant advantages that accrued to USN fleet submarines were ULTRA intercepts and surface search radar. They frequently benefited from ULTRA intelligence on the movements of Japanese convoys. And from 1943 onward their SJ radar provided exact range and bearing, enabling them to detect targets at night or in rain or fog.
JN-25. On June 1, 1939, the Japanese introduced what American cryptanalysts called JN-25. JN means simply Japanese Navy, and JN-25, consisting eventually of about 33,000 words, phrases, and letters, was the primary code the Japanese used to send military, as opposed to diplomatic, messages. After Pearl Harbor, U.S. intelligence efforts focused on cracking JN-25. Leading the effort, code-named Magic, was the U.S. Navy's Combat Intelligence Unit, called OP-20-G and consisting of 738 naval personnel. The unit, housed in the basement of the 14th Naval District Administration at Pearl Harbor, was under the command of Commodore John Rochefort, who combined fluency in Japanese with single-minded dedication to the task. Using complex mathematical analysis, IBM punch-card tabulating machines, and a cipher machine, Friedman had developed the ECM Mark III, the unit was able to crack most of the code by January 1942. The blanket name given to any information gained by deciphering JN-25 was Ultra, a word borrowed from British codebreaking efforts and stamped at the top of all deciphered messages.
My Father-in -law worked at GE on sub radar. His draft number came up twice, and GE had him deferred because he had too much top secret knowledge. He still had wartime top secret clearance when he retired.
It's well worth the trip if you're anywhere close. They kept the sub in as close to its original condition as possible, meaning that you descend through the crew hatches rather than some stairs or doors cut through the hull. (Needless to say, the boat's not handicapped accessible.) I know an older gentleman at church who was a lifelong submariner, and actually served on some of these boats in different configurations (as well as Polaris and plankowner on the 637 Sturgeon). In the forward torpedo loading room, there's a fold-down cot hanging in an overhead space running down from the torpedo loading hatch. As I was showing him pictures of the Cod, he pointed to that cot and said "Oh, I remember that - it was mine."
I love how the sinking of a train was glossed over as if it was a normal thing for submarines to do. Never seen a Gato in person but I have seen a Balao-class, the USS Pampanito (SS-383) which is in San Francisco, California as a museum ship .
Having lived in Buffalo, i've been aboard the Croaker multiple times, the whole Military park is a great site to visit for any history buffs. That military park also has assorted helicopters, APC's, two airplanes and the last surviving Cleveland; USS Little Rock (ok... "technically" she's a Galveston class, after the cruise missle retrofit) They also have the USS The Sulivan, a Fletcher DD named after the 5 Sulivan brother killed during the sinking of the Juneau. Tours are always open (Maybe not now due to the winter months) but like I said, definitely worth a visit
28 or 29 Gato class submarines were constructed in the Great Lakes by manitouwac ship yards in Wisconsin. The Cobia is on display and can be toured there!
Woo! USS Silversides! Good to see you again! You did OK with Muskegon, but the emphasis is on the second syllable. Mu SKEE gon. :-) FYI, SIlversides can no longer submerge because of the tourist access hatches they've added, but she can sail and they do cruises on Lake Michigan for Boy Scout troops and other groups, where the kids learn about the history of the ship from guides as well as experience the joy of standing watch and eating in a very tiny mess hall. :-)
Soon to star in a "well there's your problem" podcast. Cutting extra holes in floaty things bad, they figured that out while Cowper Coles was still kicking around. Interestingly the word "cowp" is a dialect word to describe the process of a farm animal keeling over and dying unexpectedly (although the overarching ambition of the sheep is to be found upside down in a muddy hole, dead as a doornail). Apparently from the Scottish..
Back in 1980 a museum owned a Gato class sub in Los Angeles harbor. As they were not yet decided on what to do with it and needed someone to keep an eye on it, they took in volunteers each weekend to live on the sub. It was in WW2 condition and everything worked (minus the batteries which had been removed). There was generator and you have 4 hours or fuel to run the lights over two days. It was one of the ships used to film Operation Petticoat and when the paint chipped off you could see a layer of pink. I got to spend the weekend on that ship and it was really fun. The sub was USS Roncador.
Thanks for another great video on a very important class of boats. A small correction though. The correct pronunciation is GAH-toe. It comes from the Spanish name for a class of catsharks, with gato being Spanish for cat.
@@paulmanson253 I had a friend whose dad served on Bluefish so I was always used to hearing the Spanish pronunciation of Gato. I never really thought about it until I heard the alternate pronunciation last night, and then I wasn't sure which was right. The USN history site does say the correct pronunciation is the Spanish version of Gato.
Drachinifel - I love subs and you just too bad, man! Nobody covers naval history, vessels & technology like you, dog! Yours is one of my MOST favorite channels on YT. I suffer from depression...except when I see a new video out from you on my Rec list! Thanks for your time/research and may God bless!
I still have the book "Silversides" and it details a couple of the more interesting cruises she completed. American submarines did more then destroy the Japanese merchant fleet, they also accounted for more warships sunk then the US surface fleet, saved hundreds of downed airmen and carried out intelligence gathering missions during the war. Their actions are textbook examples on how best to use submarines in war!
The post war changes to the superstructure of these boats came in 2 phases, under the Greater Underwater Propulsion Program (called Guppy 1 and Guppy 2). Off went the guns, on went streamlined conning towers, or sails as we call them. When I joined the Navy in 1970, I went to basic training and Class A school in RTC/NTC San Diego. My sea dad was an old submariner who had just completed turning over one of these boats to a Turkish crew. On their initial dive without US sailors aboard, they dove the boat with the forward torpedo loading hatch open. Submarines are hard.
I admire and respect the hell out of these WWII submariners. I’m claustrophobic and never realized the condensation problem with moisture in the early subs and what these sailors endured. America was unbelievably fortunate to have men like these USN sailors
Thank you for covering the development of the USN fleet boats. While you did mention the V series of classes, there was no mention of the largest, 6" gunned: V-4 Argonaut, V-5 Narwhal and V-6 Nautilus. They did deviate from the conventional fleet boat design development. Argonaut was lost, yet all three had very active and unconventional careers. I am hoping you are saving them for a special episode. As always, an excellent episode.
Man oh man, while working on my undergrad I did a side project going over the logs of WW2 combat patrols of the pacific US sub fleet (they are all open source and online) and I have NEVER NEVER seen anything like these patrol logs. One I clearly remember was a submarine forced to surface in front of two patrol ships, in an act of desperation the Captain ordered full ahead between the two ships, deck crew firing away with small arms and AA gun, the two ships were either too shocked or afraid of crossfire they did not engage with heavy weapons and before they could turn around and engage the submarine it was able to disengaged and dive. Also several boats noted in the logs 'engaging enemey combatant personnel likely to be rescued' with small arms ie. gunning down uniformed sailors in the water. Crazy stuff.
Its honestly pretty great to see these subs recognized 28 of them where made a state over from me in wisconsin and the cobia was in beautiful shape when I saw her as a kid
I went to see the Cobia a loooong time ago back as a cub scouts trip. We got a full tour, including getting to play with the gun mounts for a mock target shooting exercise, and even to to spend the night onboard in the crew's quarters. I remember having a very hard time falling asleep.
Q&A. Can you talk about the Royal Navy campaingn in the Baltic in ww1 and later in 1918 and 1919? And can you do a guide video on Finnish armored ships/coastal defence ships/ 10" armed lighthouses?
God love the UK, very funny about the Japanese ships decorating the bottom of were ever it was. You guys are the best. I/ we love you guys. Kevin from sunny Mexico.
Mus-kee-gun. :-) P.S. Got to visit the Cod as a kid growing up in Cleveland. Glad to see it is still being maintained. I remember it being very, very...cramped!
The Cavalla in Galveston, TX has a reunion every two years. Been there many times with my dad who was served aboard her. At 94 he is one of the last WWII crew still alive. The boat was present at the surrender signing in Tokyo. It’s a great visit if you are near by.
Served onboard USS Tunny (SSN-682) namesake of the 282. At the last combined Tunny reunion, the 282 guys had some amazing stories about their time at sea.
The USS Silversides is available for groups to sleep overnight. The most unusual Boy Scout campouts I've ever been on, where there were no campfires and I slept in the aft torpedo room. Definitely fun, with the only sore spot being one of our members being caught whizzing off the side of the boat into the lake (the heads aboard are no longer functional, so one must go ashore). As I was the troop's Bugler, I got to wake everybody up in the morning by blowing the diving horn, which was certainly fun. Muskegon (Muss-key-gun, emphasis on the second syllable) also has an LST on display.
The USS Drum is the only submarine I have been on, and that was when I was a kid visiting the USS Alabama. I need to go back now that I know more about the ships and can appreciate them a little more.
USS Pampanito (SS-383/AGSS-383), is a Balao-class submarine now operated as a museum ship at Fishermans Wharf in San Francisco. Considerably worth the nominal price of admission.
According to my friend's grandfather, the AC did nothing for crew comfort, but a lot for the maintenance. Also, Wisconson and other upper midwestern states border the Great Lakes which are basically all fresh water seas (compare to the Black Sea). These are all connected to each other and the Atlantic by a series of canals through both Canada and the US. In theory, ships the size of Arleigh Burke class destroyers can be deployed as far inland as Deluth.
@@artmoss6889 No, the boats could not be taken through the St. Lawrence. It wasn't big enough for subs until 1958. The Manitowoc boats sailed to Chicago under their own power, then through the Chicago Sanitary Canal to Lockport, Ill. From there, they were placed on a specially-designed floating drydock and towed down the Illinois and Mississippi rivers to New Orleans.
A new memorial to the 28 Manitowoc boats was installed this summer on the Chicago River in Chicago. It includes the names of all the boats including the last to be lost the Lagarto
I'm reading "War In The Boats - My WWII Submarine Battles" by CAPT William J. Ruhe (USN). His early tours in the South Pacific aboard the non air-conditioned S-37 (S-class) sailing from Australia beggar belief. After one cruise, they fumigated the boat, did a statistical estimate, and figured they had killed 4 MILLION cockroaches right after completing the tour. Temperatures inside while submerged during the day regularly hit 97 F and the crew went about barely dressed, with sweat pouring off them, condensation from the inside of the hull, and roaches nearly everywhere. To run silent during daylight hours near Rabaul, all the controls like dive planes and key valves were operated by hand rather than using the noisier machinery - generating more sweat. Relief usually came about 1915 hours as they would surface soon after sunset and air out the boat while the diesels recharged the batteries. The old boats had parts failing every day, keeping the engineering crew very busy indeed. The only fire control was from a "Banjo" and an "Is-Was" as also described in Edward Beach's "Run Silent, Run Deep" historical novel. I'm pretty sure Beach went with "fiction" to get around some Navy secrecy restrictions. This book has been a real eye-opener for me, jaded to USN power by stories from 1943 - 1945 when they had things almost entirely their own way. Fortunately for S-37, she started the war with leftover Mk 10 torpedoes and their effective contact exploders. In retrospect, the Navy Bureau of Ordnance (BuOrd) had a natural experiment with both the Mk 10 and Mk 14 torpedoes being fired under combat conditions with drastically different results. Alas...
Fun facts for engineers. (Contradiction in terms, perhaps.) One reason it is theoretically possible to keep these submarines in seagoing conditions is that the engines are still in production. Also, a newer model is in use in modern fast attack submarines, probably as an emergency generator and for situations when the reactor is shut down. The Fairbanks-Morse 38D 8 1/8 opposed-piston engine. I served on two Coast Guard cutters with variations of this engine. One was a frigate-ish High Endurance Cutter that also had gas turbines for going a bit faster when we had the money for fuel, and the other was a 1946 vintage Navy surplus polar icebreaker. It is an antiquated and inefficient design. Lots of cylinders and even more pistons (two per cylinder), just a way to get more power when they did not have the metallurgy for the modern large- cylinder 4-stroke diesels. But they are tough as nails. About the only way to kill one is bad fuel or water in the fuel.
Bravo! .. Manitowoc an Muskegon are close to each other , and there's a car ferry in Manitowoc to get you across the water , about 5 hours at sea , it would make a nice weekend tour. C yA!
Just watched your lesson on Gato class subs - thanks, very interesting! You wondered about the pronunciation of Muskegon. You were close, just put the accent on the the 2nd syllable and you got it! On one of our visits to see my now late brothers in Muskegon, we visited Silverside. Very interesting tour, especially when they fire up the big diesel engine while tourists are aboard! Well worth going out of your way for that tour. Also in Muskegon is an LST you can visit, don't remember the name. Thanks again! Jim
The USS Cod is a museum and memorial sub up in Cleveland, Ohio in the USA. It is the only museum sub in the US that has not been converted to be easy to access. You’ll be going up and down hatches to get in and out of her.
I've built models from plastic kits, but sporadically, going back to the early high school years during the early1960s. My latest subject of interest to model are Submarines. Your program here, Drachinifil, is the cats pyjamas broadening my knowledge of the USN Gato Submarine class - the next kit on the slipway to build. I've noticed that in the scale I've chosen,1/144 and pre-nuclear boats, there seems to be a decent variety of German UBoat's, but with Submarines used by the Navy's of other countries are not well represented at all. Most markedly absent are plastic construction kits to build models of Submarines in Royal Navy service, other than the more modern Nuclear powered boats. To my eye, the earlier WW1 & WW2 era Submarines are both subjectively & visually more interesting with a lot of their bits and pieces out there to be seen. These are mostly painted grey and black up to the horizontal halfway point on the Hull. While the Nuke boats seem to have an all-over black paint job. Again, many thanks for the ongoing series of Naval topics, much appreciated. Many thanks for another excellent episode looking into the Worlds Naval history.
These are the most professional, impartial and entretaining war videos on youtube. I enjoy them very much. You ever heard the term "Running on the Kingstons?"... Cheers.
The Cod is a wonderful sub, and gets itself refurbished once every ten years, ever since it has been on display in Cleveland, and tours are available most of the year! If you're ever in the Cleveland area, an all access pass from the Great Lakes Science Center will give you access to the museum, the NASA Glenn Visitors museum (Inside the Science Museum), the William G. Mather, a Great Lakes Steam Freighter, and the USS Cod!
My father served on the third ship of the class, the U.S.S. Grouper, from 1950 - 54 as a sonar man/radioman. He had a lot of fun and heard lots of stories from the war veterans aboard.
Hey Drachinifel, solid attempt on the Muskegon pronunciation. It's phonetically Mus-kee-gun, for future reference. Huge fan, man. Keep up the good work.
My Dad trained on the Cod for UDT service, going out one of the torpedo tubes. On a tour of the boat, a former crewman remembered him and said he thought Dad was nuts for going out the tube. Dad thought he was nuts for staying on the boat. We lived between Akron and Cleveland and Cod is one of the more underappreciated features of the area. Who cares about the Rock Hall? By the way, the locals pronounce it "Muskeegun," but Ohioans call it "that other damn place up North."
You did good enough on that place in Michigan, much better than I do on pronouncing the name of your channel. And I really like what you're doing here.
I toured the Silversides when it was at Navy Pier in Chicago prior to it going to Mus Key gon, Mi. Really small compared to the SSBNs that I worked on at Rota, Spain in the 70s
You can still see the USS Cod in Cleveland, Ohio in amazing condition. Not to long ago they restored a couple of her General Electric motors and they run her every one in a while. The Cod also has a fully restored Mark IV torpedo data computer. SSN-224
Have visited USS cavalla several times as a quote-unquote luxury boat it does put the perspective of what the others were like. I am not exactly an average height at 6 ft 5 in I felt far taller than that while visiting USS cavalla. For those visiting Texas I highly recommend the gulf coastal naval trip. In a long weekend is it possible to see battleship Texas USS cavalla USS Stewart destroyer escort and then make the trek to corpus Christi and see the USS Lexington.
Although it may seem odd that at least two of the Gatos are now exhibits in Great Lake states, it is likely that they are there because that is where they were built. Built in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. and then navigated to the Atlantic via the Welland Canal and the St Lawrence river, then to the Pacific via the Panama Canal.
Manitowoc was the only builder on the great lakes (for subs), but they didn't take them out through the St. Lawrence. The St. Lawrence wasn't big enough at the time. The locks weren't expanded until '58. Any subs built on the great lakes made their way to Chicago under their own power, through the Chicago Sanitary Canal to Lockport, Ill, and then loaded on a specially-built floating drydock and towed down the Illinois and Mississippi rivers to New Orleans. From there they headed towards Panama.
@@alexkimmell7320 See? Even an old dog can learn something new. 28 Gato class boats floated down the Mississippi from Lake Michigan. Thanks for that, Alex.
I have been in the M class hanger...it's a big room with a pile of silt at one end....the whole sub seemed huge & more menacing than any other sub I ever went on or in.
Great video. I love hearing about these historic warships. There is one other Gato class sub on public display you didn’t mention. The USS Lionfish is located in Fall River, MA. USA. It is one of four museum ships at Battleship Cove. The other three ships are the battleship, USS Massachusetts, a destroyer, USS Joseph P. Kennedy (yes the older brother of John, Bobby and Ted) and a Russian guided missile patrol boat that’s name escapes me...it may not have one. There are also two PT Boats at the facility. It is quite the attraction for WW 2 and Cold War buffs or just history buffs in general. You can walk through most areas of the ships including the turrets, bridge, crew quarters and more.
The reason there is a boat in Wisconsin is a number of submarines were actually built in ship yards on Lake Michigan in Manitowoc Wisconsin during WW2 then sailed out of the great lakes for duty
