In the fifties, the Salem Starred as the German ship in a Movie. The USS Salem is now a Museum Ship at Quincy, Mass. She also hosts a Museum for her Sister Ship, the USS Newport News, CA148.
Do it, its a very open ship, some of the volunteers even showed me some of the spaces not normally open when I asked about the analog targeting computers which was super cool, it has the option to fire anti-aircraft shells out of the main guns, I'd imagine a kamikaze wouldn't do well up against an 8" shell with a proximity fuse.
The producers did well to use the British ships that were as close to the originals, and I believe 2 even were. Since the Germans did try to make the Graf Spee look like a US cruiser in silhouette one can accept the use of the USS Salem. They probably should not have shown as much of the stern and tried to make turret B look false. When the "Spee's" guns were fired in the film only turret A should have been shown firing. And a flip of the film could have been used to simulate the rear turret firing. You have to use what you got. There were WW2 British cruisers available when the film was made, but there were no WW2 Panzerschiffe around.
Well done my friend. I walked the dex, I mean decks of the USS Salem with my grandson in April of 2006. We were on board for a USS Newport News Work Party. It was great to watch your video and see all of the places my grandson and I stood on or walked over. Seeing the Salem in that new condition was great. Anyone who gets the chance should visit that great ship and also check out the USS Newport News Mueseum that is on board. Both are great ships that should never be forgotton. Gary Palmer
My son and I slept on-board overnight in the aft birthing area when he was a scout. The next morning we split from the group and climbed up the outer later to the bridge even through it was off-limits. Found an old radar manual but left it in place the ship was great to explore located in Quincy Harbor MA. Models of it are now available which some of the $$ keeps the restoration going.
I guess the producers needed a ship to step in for Graf Spee, but the Salem wasn't even close. She had three triple 8-inch turrets to Graf Spee's two triple 11-inch turrets. She had twin 5-inch secondary mounts, compared to Graf Spee's six single 6-inch guns. Graf Spee did not have the twin 20-mm pom-pom AA turrets either. Alas, very little film footage exists of the real Graf Spee.
Is there any archive footage of the Lutzow or the Admiral Scheer, Graf Spee's 2 identical sister ships both survived until the last year of the war 1945?
And in an interview a few years ago, Lee said he had no idea what his role was. To me, he looks confused. No relation to Bernard Lee also in the film. They were both in the same James Bond movie" The Man With the Golden Gun".
@@rutabagasteu I mean rotoscope existed back then, might have been expensive and not worth it though to change the number in post. Salem is a good looking ship though anyways, its like casting an actor that looked better that the person they are portraying, and then not having them work with an accent coach at all so they don't sound right, or look right, but they look good.
@@starshipmechanic I know rotoscoping was used in Betty Boop cartoons. Saw the explanation on Fleischer studios in the 1990s. These cartoons are from the 1930s and 1940s. But the director may not have wanted to use that method on this movie.
@@rutabagasteu Admiral Graf Spee didn't have a hull number to paint on. She did have a coat of arms, however...that could be what the USN refused to paint on. However, it would've been painted over upon the start of hostilities to prevent identification.
Abensberg actually, if you read articles from Wikipedia or external articles such as books, in ww2, they actually made the Graf Spee look like a US cruiser, so they would paint it haze gray and put a large hull number on the bow. And in a 1960s movie budget for a commissioned US naval ship, the cost to paint her would have been outstanding, and the navy wouldn't have allowed it.
Well to their credid they were filming on an active US warship so i dont think the naivy would be that permissive. Besides, they goot HMS Aquilles and HMS Cumberland to play themselfs, that pretty impresive
Dont forget...no computer graphics, thus they either had to use models or similar looking ships. At least I know now why a far away shot I saw on youtube had 2 turrets front (thought they accidently filmed the wrong ship there :D )
The US Navy did not allow German paraphernalia on board the Salem. American helmets etc take away from the movie realism. Not a problem today as US has now adopted for its use-the very helmet that was despised then--the Nazi helmet. The picture on the wall of Langdorff's office in the movie sports the real Graf Spee and in the background 2 other ships--one of those being the HMS Hood. Bernard Lee who plays Captain Bell----was also "M" in the James Bond movies the early years.
DOLRED I'd like to enquire about your statement about the Nazi helmet... I suppose you mean the Mich type helmet? There's a reason for that. It covers your ears and a big part of the soldier's head. You know, the survival of people is a lot more important than comparisons to something else, however bad that might be. By that logic, we also shouldnt use jet aircraft (although, yes, Soviets made the first one, it was the Nazis that researched it further) or rockets for the satellites etc. Besides, a side by side comparison shows the two helmets are QUITE different
The movies is "Battle of River Plate," and it can be found on RU-vid. You would think they would have painted over the giant "139" on the bow of the ship. The whole movies makes you keep wondering "why are they on an American ship?" It just doesn't work as the Graf Spee.
The US Navy refused to allow any modifications to the USS Salem, as it was an active serving warship in the US Navy at the time this movie was made. The US Navy also refused to allow a Nazi flag to be flown on the ship during any of the filming. The Navy furthermore refused to allow the filmmakers to dress the crew of the Salem in German Navy uniforms, or for the AA gunners to wear German style helmets. So all the crew of the Graf Spee in the movie are wearing US Navy uniforms and helmets. So the US Navy turned down a number of requests made by the film company, to make the film more authentic.
Lance Jacobs Has anyone been on the USS Salem I have my Grandpa was on it and he died of cancer even though you can't go on now they are fixing the dock. Once it's fixed could you say a prayer to him.
I am just a history buff, and enjoy learning historical details. I am not involved with the USS Salem museum. I'm 65 and crippled, and live on the west coast. I don't travel anywhere anymore. I can barely walk.
The script 'explained" this by having the German captain claim that the Graf Spee was being disguised as an American cruiser. Of course, no US ship with that bow number then existed. Lame!
Wow. Interesting comparison. Graf Spee was more heavily armored than SALEM is, but not nearly as fast. Graf Spee had bigger guns, but SALEM's were auto-firing 8 inchers. SALEM also has much better fire control and damage control. Graf Spee would have done well to avoid SALEM, that's for sure.
_Salem_ and her sisters had a 6" (152.4mm.) armor belt that thinned out to 3-½" (88.9mm.). _Graf Spee_ had a 3-15⁄16" (100mm.) belt that thinned out to about ~1-15⁄16" (~50mm.) from what I can gauge. This had a secondary plate of near uniform 1-9⁄16" (40mm.) thickness about 1m. behind it. I cannot find consistent number for the thickness of _Salem's_ deck armor, but it's approximately 3-½" (88.9mm.). The _Graf Spee_ had armor two decks down of 2-¾" (70mm.) thickness. This would thin down to 1-3⁄16" (30mm.) towards the fore end and stern. Turrets, conning tower, secondaries, spall protection and so forth same story.
@@peterson7082 Yeah, the Salem weighs 2,000 tons more unloaded, and over 5,000 tons more fully loaded. It's 5 knots faster, and 90 feet longer. It has 2 inch thicker belt armor. Basically, the Salem was armored to protect against its own sized guns, which means that 11" guns would penetrate and badly damage her. But in the meantime, Graf Spee would be penetrated by Salem's 8" guns. It's hard to say how a battle would turn out between these 2 ships.
@@HighlanderNorth1 It actually isn’t that hard to determine. Salem’s absurd fire rate means that Graf Spee takes severe damage before being able to do a lot to Salem. Graf Spee’s 11 inch guns can achieve a fire rate of 2.5 rounds per gun per minute while Salem’s guns achieve a fire rate of about 10 rounds per gun per minute. Unless the pocket battleship gets very lucky on the first or maybe second broadside that 8 inch rain will wreak havoc
@@hresvelgr7193 I was also factoring in range, which I'd assume would benefit the Graf Spee's 11" guns. That could be a problem if the Graf Spee could accurately fire and get hits from outside of Salem's firing range. Salem would have to close the distance to get within her gun's effective range, while avoiding being hit in important areas in the meantime.
yeah, and the guys on the raft in the beginning have Thompsons for crap's sake. I remember seeing that and the helmets when I was about 11 yrs old and saw this on TV the first time. My mother told me to stop cussing so much. At the end of the movie on of the Brit cruisers that show up is in the process of being scrapped, and has lost all her main turrets. Kinda ruined it for me. They coulda at least dug up a few more fritz helmets and some MP-40s. Sheeesh.
Interesting catching the Thompsons. I see lots and lots of armory issues in moves and on some of the History Channel stuff. Drives me nuts :) Great catch.
David Currie bruh don’t be bitching about the uss salem as the graf spee, they did the best they could with what they had, and tbh they did a pretty good job at it
Aww come on!! At least TRY to make this realistic by maybe painting or hiding the big white “139” over from the ships bow. My 6 year old pointed that out as well!! 6.......years old. Why in the hell use an obvious United States Navy ship the USS SALEM heavy cruiser as the Nazi Graf Spee?? Why not use modern footage from an Iowa Class Battleship while you’re at it.
probably the most inaccurate film in history - I don't know what drugs the casting and ship selector were on to pick a ship that looked nothing like (really not even a good second guess) the Graf Spee and a bearded actor who looked absolutely nothing like Langsdorff. Tragic !
