V-MAX BALLISTIC GEL TEST ~ .22 WMR vs .17 HMR 

Or they could buy him one and send it to him...

LOL I know what you mean. I love a brand new fresh gel block!

Very 'mice' 👌😂

Jesus Christ loves you and everyone

@@greggriffin3882 Jesus Christ loves you and everyone

I think they are two different blocks. The clear on is silicone based and the brown ones are animal/bone/soup or some such?

Agreed. Thanks!

Ya, the HK 4.6x30mm would be awesome, if it gains any steam. A hand gun in it would be just as nice as the 5.7x28mm.

I like the 17 HMR, but it blows up rabbits and squirrels if I mess up on a head shot. The 22 mag at least leaves the hind quarters if the shot isn't perfect at 50 to 75 yards. I love the 17 HMR for Whistle Pigs (Groundhogs) and similar size pest on the farm. They both are great rounds and have their place in my collection. Since it is all but impossible, to find 25 Stevens now I use the HMR in its place. When I got the Stevens Favorite I had 1500 rounds that I inherited also and now I only have 2 unopened boxes in my collection. I'm hoping on of the companies will do a run of them again as they have done every 20 or 30 years.

very exspensive too

@@barbarafike4487 way less expensive than 22 mag here

Don’t forget the long rifle there’s some hot shells that fly very fast for what it is 1500 - 1640 out of stingers which is impressive I’m glad Ive read your comment because I’m caught in between getting a wmr or 17 and now I’m pretty dead set on the wmr

I believe if you use a semiautomatic in any gel testing you will lose velocity.

Somethings very wrong with his testing. I've been a big fan of the CCI Stinger since it was introduced in 1975. Whether fired in 6" revolvers or 4" auto pistol, the Stinger has been devastating. Far more devastating than a .22 LR traditional HP from a rifle. The traditional .22LR HP from a rifle was unreliable on 8 pound jackrabbits running. But a Stinger from a pistol drops them. Stingers are also very accurate. I think the problem lies in the "ballistic gel" he's using. It's not going to trump 49 years of experience of great performance on live critters.

​@@LuvBorderColliesStingers are slower from a pistol than any HP from a rifle and they are lighter to boot. They're also absolute bottom of the barrel accuracy wise. This "devastating" performance might be the result of confirmation bias.

I bet the CCI Maxi Mag TNT would expand well in this test.

Depends on what you're hunting. So far I haven't come across any animal that I would shoot with a 22wmr that I wouldn't shoot with a 17hmr. There aren't any animals made of jello....ok really thick jello. A 17hmr will go through a treated 4X4 but a 22wmr will not.(using fmj in both). So are you convinced that 17hmr is better now? I'm not because I don't know of any animal that's wood either. Also, the few animals that I have shot and cleaned, that the 22wmr didn't blow through, the bullets expanded. The animals I've cleaned after shooting them with the 17hmr have had more than adequate penetration and lost a lot more blood. The downside of the 17hmr is, unless you get a head shot, you're going to lose meat. So it really is, what are you hunting?

indeed ! and the wound hole is quite the same as a expanded 17HMR but longer ! Now imagine a bone is in between....no chance for the 17HMR but the 22Mag has a good chance to splitt it and expand itself !

@APEX PREDATOR that's fine, it's a 40gr 100 yards away.

22 hornet

@@kubanskiloewe Actually the .17hmr tends to blow right through bone. It's the preferred MS poacher round because a head shot on a whitetail just drops it instantly. A .22lr still needs shot placement even in the brain cavity to drop the animal. Also I've seen it shot at ballistic glass and it penetrates.

That's 15" with no bones and consistent density throughout.

Can you imagine the energy dump from the 17 hmr at 25 yards 😳😂

@@henriknielsen9674 "dump" is the new word for "transfer." I'm just gonna dump this wheelbarrow of energy over here someplace, if you don't mind.

22 mag all day.

@@meme8315 , yep.......

I came to say same thing, I bet at 50 yds or less very different results

One more question, there are differences between round point and rifle point like .22 and .17hmr?

If penitration is what you want the 17 has full metal jackets that will out do the 22wmr

I appreciate ya!

this !

I've shot armadillos with that round, it'll open the shell up to where it looks like you used a manual can opener. He needs to set some kind of barrier in front of the gel block.

.17 will kill small game reliably at 200 yds. Proven

@@roydunn4649 define "small game" and ethical kills. I heard people talking about taking groundhogs at 200 yards+ with the 17HMR and I have to laugh. Those little bullets run out of steam past 150. There's plenty of videos on RU-vid showing what happens in soft targets at that distance. The velocity drops below expansion threshold. I enjoy the 17 a lot, but at that distance atleast with the 22wmr you have a bigger hole being punched in game.

@@prowler10393 Small game is edible small animals. I consider large squirrels, racoons, possums etc to be small game. SO I am not looking for a larger hole. I am looking at accuracy for my purposes. I am also not taking into account wind etc. With accurate shot placement looking for the most ethical kill with the most edible meat left, I choose the .17 hmr. I have seen people in real life, not RU-vid, hit and kill small game at 150+ yards with my exact same rifle. Just a Savage .17 from BiMart with a decent 4-12 scope. Myself, living in western Oregon, I really do not shoot at that distance as my shooting is in the woods. My longer shots are on Deer or elk with either my .308 or 6.5 Creedmore. Although within 100 yds, in a SURVIVAL situation, I am confident that I could take down a deer with the .17. For the average shooter I would not recommend it. The .17 needs accurate shot placement if used for edible game. Most averaged shooters do not know their firearm well enough to confidently go after ground squirrels with a headshot except at very close range. I am confident enough out to around 75 yds, BUT I shoot quite a bit and knowmy setup extremely well. Remember .22 is not advised for anything above small game, but more deer have been shot out of season with .22's than most country people willl admit to. Shot placement is key with any firearm when hunting things to eat, a second shot is never ever guaranteed.

I shoot varmints with 22 mag vmax and it always expands. Flesh and gel are very different. It levels anything at 100yds with no pass through. I dropped about a 75lb coyote at 40ish yards. It expanded perfectly and almost passed through.

@@mdnghtrdr79 75 pounds 🙄 you'd have a world record if you got anywhere close to that. I'd believe 40 pounds

@@jordanhicks5131 you should see the ones on camp Pendleton CA that eat the Marines MREs with 4,000 calories in them out of the dumpsters, we used to watch them come in at night and then leave in the morning using our taps and revelle announcements daily, this was back in 2008 before I got out in 2010 after my third and final deployment in Helmand Afghanistan.

That particular Hornady bullet didn't expand. A copper clad, led hollow point would do better, but the ballistics wouldn't be as good as that particular hornady bullet. And the .17 only expanded to the same diameter of the .22 mag. Good observation, though!

​​@jordanhicks5131 eastern coyotes average around 40 pounds

But with in 100 yards the 17 hmr vmax ballistic tip really does massive damage, I've looked inside the hogs I've killed and it's beyond reason how much explosive energy that little bullet has. Past say 120yards I don't think I would even pull the trigger on a 100 lb er.

I had a bad hit on a large coyote and smacked him in the spine just in front of his hips. Almost put him in half, unfortunately he lived for way too long afterwards and crawled away down a cut. 2 1/2 minutes of pure agony and horror before I managed to get a second shot, this time on target. (CCI solid 20gr pill at 60 or so yards, down angle).

@@john-paulsilke893 Jesus if you’re taking shots at distances that make it that unreliable, it’s time to go up on caliber. That sucks, sounds brutal. 😕

@@williamray5467 I was able to see one expand in a groundhog with the xsight the other day. It’s FAR more crazy than any ballistics gel vid I’ve ever seen. It literally looked like an internal explosion. When I got to him, tiny entry wound, a drop of blood - that was it.

I'm a mag man myself

I'm with you. Like that wound channel. I always used the CCI in my 22mag. Bought 1 bx of these 30gr. vmax and never even tried them yet. That's why I tuned in just to see what to expect. Probably won't shoot them until I run out of CCI but still look better than 17

@@johnpoole8321 I have used 22 WMR for back yard varmints for decades. I find Winchester Super X or CCI Maxi mags, in 40 grain HPs work best on small game. I use it for hard-to-kill snapping turtles, beavers, coyotes, etc. The lighter rounds will do it, but on a beaver or Snapper, penetration is more important.

@@nathanlambshead4778 Yes, i'm a CCI guy as well.

The 17 hmr has a better wound channel. It dumps its energy in a small animal much faster and would be a more devastating hit.

I’ve popped a couple coyotes around the 120 yard mark and none of them went anywhere. 22 mag is awesome

Sold an hmr and built a wmr just based on terminal performance. Hmr is fun for blowing up rodents.

@@realblakrawb On edible rodents, ground squirrells etc, .17 Hmr is excellent for headshots and not wasting meat. I cant imagine shooting an animal just to 'blow' them up. the only reason to use a firearm- practice, self defense, hunting animals to actually eat.

@@roydunn4649 Unless, of course, you have an infestation and have to destroy a lot of them

@@roninkraut6873 unless it's edible or a target I don't shoot it. What you do is up to you

I can remember years back a manufacturer came out with .25 caliber handgun rounds that would expand . The had a steel pellet in front of a cavity in the nose of the bullet . Don't recall if they were any good , but tests showed that expansion was satisfactory even down to 700 fps

I sometimes ponder the kings cavity of the 220 swift versus the 17wsm inadvertent strike force of the 308 magnum incendiary congruency to the obtuseness of the ever flatness of the .204 out to about 350 meters.

@@vinceoleyar9411 Oh shut uppppppppp lmao

@@vinceoleyar9411 I had a 243 mith 55grain sierra bobtail hollow points it was 200 feet slower than 220 swift

Same, that was a much larger wound cavity on the first 22 mag shot.

The .22 bullet never expanded. The channel is from the bullet tumbling. That's why the bullet is still completely intact in the back of the gel

@@teddibiase5332 I agree with you million dollar man lol what I meant to say is that it still had a decent size channel. I've never seen any 22s really expand so to speak

@@akatripclaymore.9679 really?!?...22WMR on bear?

@@akatripclaymore.9679 lol...love that Golden Gate Park story.

@@akatripclaymore.9679 😄😄😄 That's a great story. I wonder if the blood from the butchering was ever discovered.

@@maverickpaladin4155 I'm sure he used Tarps..he was a hunter since he was 12 so was I. He hung them for a few day's too, he said he had to tie both ends up because there were rat's & shot quite a few with a Steven's Crack shot in the basement then you could get" BB cap's" that is what he used. You think I'm BS ing you huh? "Whatever it really doesn't bother me", it is something not many people would believe today! How old are you, I'm 58 my mom & dad got me out of California in 67 Thank God! We moved to Coulee City Washington as he had a job waiting at Grand Coulee Dam. Where are you from & how old are you? I see you like Pink Floyd 😉 I remember when Dark Side of the moon came out it was EVERYWHERE. The Wall was Awesome, I've seen that movie tons of time's! Just Waiting for the Worm's now. Waiting to cut out the Deadwood, & Clean up the city! 😆

PALADIN PALADIN..Where do you roam?

Can’t beat a 22 mag in my opinion

@@Florida239 especially when I buy the same ammo for my pistol, it’s definitely a kick ass little round ✌️🇺🇸

For getting meat i would say 22 mag. But for pest, I would go with the 17.

CCI STINGER...

Aguila Interceptors. CCI Velocitors. Federal Punch. Winchester Silvertip. Winchester Super-X Hypervelocity.

Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed it! That rooster is a menace!

#4 Buck on that silly Rooster ! There will be a puff of feathers and... no more Rooster !

Mine too. It is my go-to for chucks and beavers.

Believe it or not but at 100 yards with the winchester superx, far superior on wood chucks

TNT bombs in .22 mag are my favorite, 30 grain speer bullet with a large hollow point, these outperformed the hornady in my testing.

I've tried the Hornady 30g in my magnum and don't like it due to lack of expansion. I use it on rabbits and they are quite often sitting on their Warren so u want a fast kill. The Winchester power point and cci cause way more damage.... speaks for its self and for some reason the Winchester ammo groups best through my mag

@@michaelware7294 just curious what the rifle is that likes Winnie’s better? Twist rate maybe? Thanks

I’ve shot 700+ gophers with my 22 mag this summer. Browning 40gr sp CCI 40gr maxi mag and Winchester HV 30gr. The 30 gr chrony at 2308fps. devastating at all ranges.(out to 120)Close up they blow up gophers and toss them a foot sometimes 2.

Those v-Max’s don’t expand unless they hit something kind of hard, throw a maxi mag wmr in it and watch the magic happen

Yes they expand well on cotton tails kind too much if keeping for me very messy

Thats true .....Liberal Fact check said it was

Thanks for watching Terry!

Me too. And as a .22 Magnum fan I'm a little disappointed to be honest. Thanks for watching

@@buffalosoutdoors I bet the 22 WMR explodes at 50 yards.

The V-Max'es are not made to expand, they fly apart! They are made for very small critters!

@@hiccup4668 that's good to know

Greetings from Australia We use the 22WMR 30gn Vmax for foxes and feral dogs, please don't use a gel test as a real life experience, when use on these animals and there is varying medium in hair, skin, bone and different muscles in real animals, they expand pretty violently and usually don't exit. I don't understand the gel tests as real world example of performance, merely a comparison for a use that unfortunately isn't related to living creatures. In comparison, the 17gn Vmax in the HMR for us, is very disappointing and doesn't penetrate enough to stop these animals either running off or needing a follow up shot. So we use it only for pest birds.

Thanks for watching!

Thanks. I really like TGD. He does a great job. Thanks for throwing him some recognition!

Valid point for sure but I find the 17hmr is so accurate that head shots are easy peasy.

Not sure about that... is 22 or 22 magnum really meant to consistently kill and expand at 100 yards ? I can assure you that they do expand at closer range because I’ve shot similar rounds into melons lined up at 20 yards and got nearly double expansion.

@@MrProfchaos71 than they should put that info on the label. I get that its out of speed by 100 yds to expand but manufacturers have to learn it’s okay to describe expected bullet performance to help the consumer get the right round for their needs.

@@adamarens3520 They probably figure people will use the right gun for the job and keep themselves informed. I’m no ballistic expert but I wasn’t at all surprised by no expansion at 100 yards and in a way they do put that on the box .....because they typically have the velocity at 50 and 100 yards on the box.

@@adamarens3520 Also remember that this is not calibrated Gel. It’s just used to visualize and it’s not the same stuff that the FBI uses to determine penetration and expansion. Do you really think that any 22 mag round being produced today is going to get 16 inches of penetration on an animal 100 yards away ?

@@MrProfchaos71 I don’t really figure or assume any of this stuff. I get surprised by new designs all the time. But I’m so glad you know all about .22 mag ballistics and are such an expert to explain it to me. I’m so lucky to be graced by your replies and knowledge sir. See us little folk watch test videos to learn about stuff, which is a waste of time for you obviously since you already know all there is to know 🤷‍♂️. I still want more ballistic information printed, get this, right on the box! And people deserve to know about things more easily. I know it’s tough because you don’t need that. You help teach people about their misthinking and it’s so wonderful. I know it’s hard being surrounded by people who think differently but stick it out, be brave 👍.

Cut apart a wound in actual flesh and see what a 20 grain .17 hmr does. In flesh it basically disintegrates and causes 1 wound channel smaller than the .22, bit it causes a larger wound with all the fragments.. Though I would never use my .17 on anything larger than a coyote unless it was in a starvation situation, I am highly confident that my 17 would take down a deer with proper shot placement within 75yds.

I would suggest coq au vin. Great recipe for tough chicken meat. Or Brunswick stew: one chicken, one squirrel, and one rabbit with the vegies of your choice, cooked low and slow. (That's what the old black man in rural Georgia told me, and I have no reason to doubt him. Man, could his wife cook!)

I had a talk with him after the video! I told him about how much I love chicken and dumplings. He mumbled something about his union steward as he walked away....

@@buffalosoutdoors Well struck, Buff!

@@buffalosoutdoors thats funny

My friend had a monster of a rooster. He attacked her one too many times. She shot him in the chest with a 22. He came back to life. She gave him a week. He attacked her again. She upgraded to buckshot.

Now that would be some fun shooting! Thanks for watching!

Great explanation my friend possible the best I've ever had! Thanks you very much!

Headshots when it's for food 👍

@@SR-wz2iv Yes sir! It is very accurate too!

A very little bit more penetration than the.22 LR. For my money the Stinger is the more effective round coming in at 1/2 the price of the other 2.

Muy buena explicación, excelente video, felicitaciones, me quedo con el 22 Magnum

Agree, great video.

Man I think I am going to get me one of my own as well. I've got a review of that .17 rifle coming up soon. I know what you mean about the wife! LOL Mine looks at me with murder in her eyes sometimes! LOL

TOFD G. You do need a .17 HMR. And I need a .22 Mag. If need, I'll stand with you while you ask your wife.

Buffalo's videos can sometimes strain a marriage. .. 😂

@@buffalosoutdoors mine looks at me the same way every time I buy more silver...

Problem is you definitely want a bolt action .17 HMR, but that Savage A17 looks like a lot of fun too!

My pleasure Steve!

I imagine they would not, velocity typically results in expansion. Those would be moving slower. I don’t think the clear gel is a realistic example of real world performance on an animal though

@@doyouhavegainsonyourphone4507 the bullet is a totally different design. I shot both into water and the 30 grain had no expansion whereas the 45 grain totally fragmented

LOL! It don't take much for me to fall asleep these days! I might accidently film a nap! Thanks!

@@buffalosoutdoors I’m serious I have mine in my work truck.😂😂😂

I also on mine, take it under the azalea bushes, to hide from wifey-poo

I also would enjoy a review of that round

Yeah I'd like to see that also.

LOL They sure are! Thanks buddy!

Also potentially delishious

They're the ones who brought me here. And yes, I subscribed. 😁👍

@@BigDave423 me too!

You won't regret it gents, I can assure you if that!

probably not at 100 yards. Smaller rimfire bullets tend to lose a lot of energy downrange since they typically shed velocity pretty quickly, even when fired from a full rifle length barrel. Now if the target was closer i think you'd have better performance, but at 100 yards i'd be surprised to see a rimfire bullet expand unless it was entirely softer lead.

The Stingers were a real shocker. That test totally wipes out my 49 years of experience with Stingers. Stingers in a 4" auto pistol outperform .22LR HP from a rifle. From a pistol it'll stop or shred gophers, crows, rats, prairie dogs and 8 pound jackrabbits. I strongly suspect a problem with that "ballistic gel". I don't think CCI forgot how to make Stingers all of a sudden. Stingers are also very accurate...AND...Stingers are FAR more reliable if you have a .22 auto that's finicky about ammo.

Yes. That's what a V-MAX bullet is designed to do. It failed to do it's job with the .22 Mag.

@@buffalosoutdoors try the CCI Maxi-Mags for the 22 mag

Yes that little .177 going at speeds of 2550fps cause massive explosion that one really needs to see to realise, all I use are the ballistic tips on everything including wild hogs. Actually for me it's at that point where I don't care what folks think the better gun or round is because this 17hmr does what I want, take game without tracking. And to those that day it damages too much meat don't shoot em there, this 17hmr is accurate enough to do that just practice holding steady and be comfortable with the gun.

@@williamray5467 I just came back to this video and saw your response lol… so the other day I got a groundhog with one. I went frame-by-frame on the X-Sight 4K and the frame after impact showed it’s body literally exploding internally, then going back to normal. I didn’t notice it at all till I reviewed the video, but it’s just catastrophic. It literally ballooned. Even with a groundhog I don’t think there was any exit wound. Just immediate dump of energy and “expansion” is more of “explosion” honestly. Not sure which round I used, but nearly all of the 17gr stuff performs identically in my experience.

I can tell you the Speer 30gr is devastating

I agree James. That bullet is designed to expand but at 100 yards it just doesn't.

You are on the right track. The 17hmr bullets are designed to fragment like that. Since these are used for varmint control around farms frangible bullets keep ricochets from causing a problem. Most 22 bullets are not designed like that.

LOL I hear ya man. I love those fresh country eggs but they sure are noisy rascals!

It might or might not be popular but I can tell you this. I agree 100%

I agree as well. 40 grain vs 32 grain and only 200 ft/sec slower. I keep Velocitors loaded in my .22 pistols.

Thanks Paul!

Just curious have you ever eaten groundhog

Ammo makes a difference..22 is better overall round because I like the different variety and yes, you can put it in pistols.

Thank you. Just subscribed to your channel. I thought I already was but just just checked and I wasn't. Keep up the good work.

@@buffalosoutdoors Thanks. I appreciate your subscribing. I have fun shooting, but don't necessarily put out amazing videos. So thanks much and keep up the good work!

I love Jeff's gel. His best recipe is for his Russian ballistics gel. :)

@@lowtdave 😂 or the Australian lol

I think the recipe is not shooting the ever-loving hell out of the same gel after it's fallen in the dirt a hundred or so times. :)

use the 20grain without tip is way better

HAHA! They can get mean!

@@buffalosoutdoors Ha!!! He was a ornery little thing.