I've had a lot of the same thoughts, but came to a different conclusion based on a few elements that struck me as significant: 1) The relic is damaged and there's lots of corrupted data...SoMi purges some of the data to make room for mods, by these details, we can understand that the version of Silverhand we encounter in the game itself an incomplete engram. The fact that he exists doesn't preclude the fact that he's incomplete, V's own psyche forms a structure that allows Johnny to emerge, just like the relic reboots V. The brain damage should have damaged parts of his mind no matter what...but in spite of this mutual damage they exist. 2) During the conversations with Hellman he mentions that they both exist simultaneously and that eventually the balance will shift from V to Johnny, but doesn't indicate that V will ever truly be gone. V and Johnny are a merging of two beings with the Relic's systems effectively choosing a winning side through the reconfiguration of the mind, but it can't stop the two personalities from influencing each other. 3) There are also indications that the engram is itself modified, with some of the memories we see and experience are not accurate based on the known Canon history. For example, some of the events we see Johnny accomplish, such as the fight with Smasher...Johnny mentions a few times about how they can edit engrams...likely having an idea that his memories were edited and that even before his emergence he was not quite himself. In terms of Yorinobu's goals having and "optimized" version of Johnny makes sense as building up his skills and suppressing the more problematic aspects of his personality would only serve to enhance his effectiveness. It's interesting that Johnny keeps talking about how he always had a smoke, but it was actually Morgan Blackhand who is most often pictured with a cigarette. There's a lot of people who claim that Johnny is not genuine in his dealings with V and that he's messing with the memories...but I think that the reality is that Johnny's personality was edited for Yorinobu's purpose...and that V's integration with Johnny further amplified this...but also brought balance to the damaged construct. Johnny isn't really Johnny, even Alt alludes to this...but certainly feels like he's close enough...or at least "a version of Johnny" that's close enough in her current state as an AI herself significantly different from her time as a human. Even with the "split" that occurs, the "cross contamination" is irreversible, this is especially apparent in the playthroughs where V remains at odds with Johnny where they feel the "infection" of Silverhand in their psyche. Although in the situations where V bonds with Silverhand, the evolution of Silverhand is much more apparent where V is more intrinsically "corrupting" Silverhand. Any version that "survives" remains a different person than the one they were previously. Looking at it phylosophically, they start on the same page as they're both dead and brought back to life, but are both damaged by the experience. The character that we play is as Hellman implies a hybrid personality where V's core personality is dominant, but will eventually become subsumed by Silverhand. The longer they stay together, the more the two personalities mesh together...even if two engrams are created, it's a picture of the personalities as they are rather than copies of the personalities as they were. There's no going back, but in terms of Night City...you never get out alive anyways. In the end, I don't think that one ending with V being "dead" was necessarily the goal...but rather that V is dead in all endings...that whoever continues whether that ends up being V or Johnny is only relevant in the way that they interact with those he leaves behind. Just like how in the ending where V is "healed" at the end of Phantom Liberty V remains fundamentally changed by the experience, no longer the person they used to be...dead again...in another way. There's a multiplicity of ways to bring V back in a sequel, although I don't think that's necessarily the goal here. V's story is complete, as is Smasher's and Johnny's...at least this version of him. They could all come back, or we could encounter a new set of legends. I think that would be more fitting as in my mind, Cyberpunk 2077 is a game about death...and how in this setting, death is the only thing you can expect. It comes for everyone in the end...to titans, to legends and to countless peons...it's the only way you matter in this world. V's dead even if he survives because that's the price of existing in this world. The religious symbolism you refer to very much points to this fact. It's not IMO insignificant that the place you're encouraged to revisit most often is the Columbarium. That it's really the only place in the world that takes accounting of your actions. The people who die either from your hand or through the series all get memorialized there. They're both dead...and they're also alive...a version of V survives in every ending where he doesn't outright die...the same can be said about Johnny as well. That IMO is where the religious imagery comes into play...they're not just dead, but reborn...and will die again. In one version V is reborn as an Aldecaldo, in another reborn as a normie, in another as a legendary Merc going after continuation...another as an AI or an engram, waiting to be reborn to serve Arasaka or to continue their own path, each time it's the ending of One V, one Johnny and the birth of another. There's not one true ending, and as long as V doesn't give up...they're all the same. Death and rebirth...what changes is the cost of continuing to exist. There may end up being a canon ending that we come across in the next game...but personally I prefer never really finding out...The afterlife remains the one mystery we can't solve.
Choom! Thank you for such a comprehensive and well thought comment, you raise some very interesting points and arguments that shed a whole new dimension on things. Love it!
In support of your theory may I offer that Misty opines that V and Johnny form "a harmonious whole, at the moment..." and although she seems to accept that V's (soul) will die, that this increasing disharmony and eventual dissolution of V as a separate entity may take some time and can be made as painless as possible. To me, this suggest more of a merger than a takeover, and though my V has only once given up the fight and let Johnny live on, I do like to think that he has been forever changed by his merger with V (and more than can be accounted for by watching V make honourable decisions and standing by his/her friends, and changing as a person because of that, but because maybe a few fragments of the code that was V remain, like a recessive gene in an organic body (( that's probably wrong, biologists forgive me. )) A sort of a "ghost in the machine" if I may be so shamelessly punny. I love your theory about Yorinobu, though have to disagree on two minor points. I posit that it would have been Saburo himself who ordered any edits to the engram, as wasn't Yorinobu still with the Steel Dragons until Kai commits ritual suicide a week or so after the tower falls? Also about the edits themselves, while Johnny and Alt both mention edits (with Alt alluding to the fact that these are the memories Johnny would have if the raid had gone a little better and mostly because he was just... so... damned... heroic ( I'm paraphrasing 😉). The only time editing an engram is mentioned by anyone connected to Arasaka is when Liam Northam's guest at the Riot club mentions them, but implies that the edits could not be very significant. I suggest that AI's can manipulate engrams, and engrams can ( in effect ) corrupt their own data, but that when humans try to replicate this editing process it's unpredictable at best ( they do a pretty poor job on Jackie's engram ).
The tragedy is that V goes through the whole story thinking it’s about survival. It’s not. It’s about having a second chance to face death with open eyes and choose what meaning to assign to your end. That’s why the worst endings are the ones where V clings blindly to survival and winds up empty in both body and soul. And the ones where V lets go of trying to go on living and uses what brief time they have left to do something meaningful are the ones that feel like V truly does ascend to legend.
Oddly enough my first playthrough I played nomad and came to the conclusion that I was dead already and let Johnny stay. Riding off on the bus was an odd thing to watch him ride off into the sunset in my body. But it felt like the best decision for us both.
I picked this too, it was so bittersweet. Even though V is just an idea we're spending time with in a game I felt so much anxiety at what was lying beyond the bridge. Excited to see the person Johnny was becoming with a new life. I love the concept of what it means to exist as an engram/beyond the blackwall. OG Johnny may be dead but he's the only version that exists at this time, doesn't that make him "the" Johnny? Same with V if he/she is beyond the Blackwall. The only copy but then also altered (as Alt was). What about when there are multiple copies of a person running around (like supposedly Alt is), that maybe have the same starting point/memories but are collecting different experiences and memories as they go? So much to think about!
I believe we, as players, weren't meant to get attached to V, but to NC. In the end, V was another cog in the machine. Yes, they did some good for some people and some bad, but the world keeps spinning. Also, we can't separate the fact that 2077 was supposed to have GTA style online play originally. We would have made our own characters to be attached to.
@@aolegion35 Edgerunners exemplifies this. David, like V has no chance of beating or conquering Night City, that is the point of NC. It's almost Lovecraft in nature, it's too vast and powerful to even have a real concerned to be altered in any meaningful way. The best anyone in NC can hope for is to leave on their own terms (usually by dying in infamy).
I don't think it's "usually" by death. Lots of world out there, I saw plenty of older people in NC. Just not a lot of old mercs. Eventually you become a corp or a fixer.
An interesting philosophical approach with points I have not thought about, and I agree. There are a couple more fitting things coming to my mind now: - The Pacifica Delamain says something like "You´re still shuffling around a little, but your dead" - Brendan, our beloved friendly S.C.S.M. mentions, when it comes to V, that he "can´t speak ill of the dead" and that you´re "a glitch in the system" With over 1k hours in Night City I´ve seen and played all endings in various combinations (m and f Vs, different partners, etc.) and must say, that giving your body to Johnny and going with Alt is the ending that FELT most "right".
Its funny how at my 1st playthrough by a netrunner my V left beyond the blackwall cause it seemed like the only logical choice for him to save both Johny and him since it seemed fine for him as a netrunner. The ending should suit the character. I would love to see V as an AI acting from beyond the blackwall in the Cyberpunk 2 since we already have so many references to rogue AIs influencing the real world.
I think there's different endings to show what you actually think about the character V ,in a way you are also Johnny by being the player, if V is a character you like, you try to choose the path that keeps him/her alive "DLC", ..or the character V doesn't really exist and its actually you choosing your own ending in a way
@@handsomeTez I really enjoyed you theory here it's fairly well thought out, and I certainly agree with you that journey is one of my favorite games.... And does a fairly good job of representing this cycle we call life and the fact that journey doesn't end just restarts... Supposes that we are a form of energy at the bare bones of it and that we just keep recycling.....
Consider the fact that if V's body was braindead, no amount of "rebooting" from the Engram can fix that. The only reason V was "ressurrected" is because he is not fully dead and his brain was still intact. The proof of this is his consciousness, which is very different from his spirit fighting to exist. If we assume that V's body is completely dead, then Johnny would be dead too. Throughout the game, Johnny made this one clear. So, great video but the premise is flawed.
the neurons in the brain are created and pathways weaved together. we are nothing more than our brains. if you break a computer it wont work. if you put all the atoms back where they were, it will.
Did not expect this today. If you follow the logic, the only "canon" ending is Don't Fear The Reaper and Temperance, since it's the one where nobody else dies so V can live-then chooses to give Johnny their body. I don't know. But I do know that you left me with a lot to think about, which was your purpose, so you succeeded
@@arthuralford This assumes a short life isn't worth living. Johnny already lived his life, and was a worse person than V. Johnny even feels guilty living as V and has to see his/her face every time he looks in the mirror, as a reminder of his only true friend who undeservingly gave their life for his. Johnny doesn't tie up V's loose ends. All V's friends still think V is alive, and only Rogue knows it's Johnny, and even Rogue is mad at Johnny for it and hates him for taking V's body.
I love stories that challenge our belief of what the "best" ending is. I always took Dex's question as setting the goal of the story. Quiet life or blaze of glory....either way though V's story comes to an end.
I have always thought that V was an engram and not the original V from the end of Act One. However engram V has just as much right to exist as engram Johnny.
Kudos for the clip of Holly from Red Dwarf. Also I'd say even if V was V after the landfill, they were dead after "Not Alt" using soulkiller on them in Arasaka Tower. The engram is just a copy of the person's mind. But, similarly, Johnny isn't really Johnny either. So V is hit with Soulkiller, wiping their mind and making a copy of it. Then that copy is downloaded back into V's brain. So the V that wakes up from that is a copy of a copy. Or, if V gives Johnny the body, it's a copy of a copy of Johnny. Theoretically that could be accomplished while keeping the copy in cyberspace "alive" as well.
@@handsomeTez Yeah, the whole scifi trope of uploading your brain to the internet or into a robot always has that one big problem. It's a copy, not a transfer. Similar problem also exists for Star Trek style transporters: You're being vaporized on one end then a clone of you is constructed on the other. The "you" on the origin end is dead. Kind of have to suspend disbelief on this kind of thing for the sake of the story, though.
I mean some of this is definitely thought provoking. But V and Johnny are fundamentally different. Johnny is a recording of a person from 50 years ago . V is not dead because Dex used a low caliber round. This has actually happened in real life where people have survived such assassination attempts with lowly 20th century medicine. The relic just repaired some of the damage. But the questions about existence and the spiritual side of things are definitely some of the more interesting aspects of the game.
Did you not see the size of the bullet that they pulled out of your head?? The necklace you get from misty is that bullet they dug out of your skull. That bullet isn’t tiny.
I never feel comfortable with deep analyses of what story-creators 'meant' unless it comes from their own mouths. My slight acquaintance with such people has shown me that often these apparently complex and involved themes are simply a pattern we impose on something that originated deep in the subconscious creative chaos...just as in our own lives, we create our own meaning of what life, and art, actually _is_. All that being said, this is a pretty fascinating analysis. One thing I'd point out is that people with severe brain injuries _can_ survive at a vegetative level for rather a long time, so to say that 'V was dead' seems more a figure of speech than a flat reality. But there are a lot of connections here that I never bothered to make... I never noticed the sticker on the Nomad car, and I never even realized that the Heavy Hearts Club [weird name when you think about it] pyramid echoed the appearance of Mikoshi [guess I'm just not a deep thinker...I never look for things like this]. The cat being a Sphinx does seem a pretty solid nod to Egyptian afterlife symbolism...but what about the other cats we find in downtown Night City and by the Pacifica rollercoaster? Maybe _this_ is overthinking... [What did the rollercoaster sequence, where V repairs the rollercoaster and rides it with Johnny in a moment of unforced, innocent enjoyment _really mean_? Does it mean anything...or was it just an amusing little surprise for us? Now that I think about it, was the Lizzy Wizzy performance at the Black Sapphire just a fun little gift for us, or did it have some far deeper, more profound meaning? And down the rabbithole we go again. Or is the symbolism there really obvious and I'm just dumb?] Is the meaning of life, and art, the impulse to _search_ for meaning? Ohh....time for coffee... Good chat as always, Tez...you are an inspiration!
Yes, she had angel's wings and rose up during the song! I'm glad you spotted that. As always u bring some of the most interesting and insightful perspectives to these discussions! Awesome to read as always thanks buddy.
Think of it like this the human brain is also just a piece of hardware as we're playing through the game V is perhaps the Ghost in the Shell. Because the chips protocol is to repair the brain in a manner that suits the new identity. Aka Johnny. Because in most cases at the end of the game it's lights out for V... V is the ghost in his own body, as the chip rewrites the brain to better suit Silverhand's personality... And turn silverhand is being reborn
Absolutely deep, insightful commentary. This game is brilliant and so re-playable. CDPR really cooked up a masterpiece; DLC included. And thanks for the tip about Journey. Never heard of it, but downloading now.
"The lane to the land of the dead. Where you are, my friend. Marie-France, my lady prepared this road but her lord choked her off before I could read the book of her days. Neuro from the nerves, the silver paths. Romancer. Neuromancer. I call up the dead. But no, my friend. " The boy avatar representation of the AI did a little dance, brown feet printing in the sand. " I am the dead and their land." -William Gibson's Neuromancer, the story which Cyberpunk and even Shadowrun are based upon. I hadn't realized how profoundly similar ideas in the main plot of Cyberpunk 2077 were to the book till this video. Marie Francie, creator of Neuromancer was choked to death. Soburo who created Mikoshi (meaning "divine palanquin", a transport for vessels for deities in Shinto culture) suffered the same fate. Both were like an AI based afterlife. The main characters had a degraded neurological condition that at a certain point in the story creates a ticking bomb that they have to race to break into the AI based afterlife. Both are stories about an oncoming synthesis of two different minds, one of those minds desperately trying to fight off the synthesis. And ultimately... the attacked mind only has one true option to save itself, offer a digital afterlife alternative. Neuromancer offered case a way out of his condition, a whole new life, whatever life he wanted within itself. V was offered an alternative that would actually preserve her existence by Alt Cunningham. Escape to the net under her guidance. Possibly to be "devoured" by her, to join her. ("I am the dead, and their land.") The difference is which minds were fusing. V and Johnny's. Johnny hating the process because it meant Arasaka made him into what he hated most, someone who devours another's individuality. He of course took half the plot of the story to realize this is always what he had done. It always was who he was and death did not change that. But Neuromancer the merging mind was an AI made just to do that. He did it, yearned for it because it was part of his purpose and was incomplete without Neuromancer's knowledge of humanity.
Gibson laid out some really solid foundations for the genre that fueled Pondsmith , really deep and philosophical stuff. Its on another level to general sci-fi because of this. I actually hadn't made all the connections until you oultined them It was about 30 years ago I read it. Fascinating, thanks for the thought provoking input choom!
@@handsomeTez One additional thought while pondering on this. Cyberpunk stories usually revolve around identity. I thought for years V was fighting for the right to choose who they are. If we look at Neuromancer (the inspiration for the TTRPG btw) the story is about a being, Wintermute who was struggling to become what they should be (and Case was doing the same thing thinking on it) vs Neuromancer resisting what they should not become. The ending feels so soft and weird because ultimately now that Wintermute has become who it's supposed to be it's struggling with what that even means. Wintermute is reaching out to other beings of it's type in the galaxy to understand who it is, what it's identity even is. Cyberpunk 2077 if you look at the endings this way has all equally solid endings. Take Jackie Wells example in the story to understand the V lives endings. Jackie learned of his own mortality, thereafter every job terrified him because he knew the bullet was coming one day. But he decided six months being who he wanted to be was better than a lifetime being someone he hated. If V chooses six months to live that's the choice they made. It's not a wasted choice, it's not a bad end for everyone. V chose to be who they wanted to be, even if that meant they only got six months to live doing it. Notice that V lives those six months as a legend? But if V gives over the body to Johnny? Johnny is forced to live a lifetime as the person he didn't want to be and working daily to forgive himself for it. That's why if V is in control to make the decision at the end Johnny gets so upset if V chooses to have him take the body. This is what it means. A lifetime being who he least wanted to be. V lives those six months is not necessarily the worst ending all things considered.
I’m at 9:25 right now and I am hoping you will be the first creator (to my knowledge, that comments on how inside Arasaka tower looks like Mikoshi. With a black wall representation and everything.
My first play through I chose my own choices, sans any guides, and wound up somehow fully becoming Johnny Silverhand, without even being given an option. It felt appropriate, seeing as how V always sort of felt like the ghost in the machine. I had legit died, and it was was only because of Johnny Silverhand’s engram that I returned to life.
Well, you can argue about V being dead or alive after he got shot by Dex. I would say V is a walking dead but not dead yet. V surely dies in a moment he connects himself to Mikoshi. I think it's not consistent to make V "die" twice. I'm glad my first playthrough was with Nomad giving up body to Johnny, It was really tough for me to make right decision while Johnny convincing you to stick to the plan.
Crazy theory! The more I play through the game & just take time to mess around & go off the beaten path I often wonder if the symbolism is intentional or just a by-product of the story changing so much in early development & those just being crumbs leftover from a part of the story they discarded. I really do think a ton of these questions were setup to be answered in a future dlc we'll never get. Like the answers were there but cut so they could plug in more ff06b5 style mysteries down the road. Cheers choombata!
The tower ending leaves new possibilities. Especially since we don't know exactly what happened when V was out for 2 years and what the neural matrix could possibly due to her body. V is still alive.
@@handsomeTez That is one of the existing theories. You can also theorize that the AI on the NEURAL MATRIX could secretly become a visitor in V's body, but without killing her. There are so many ways that CDPR could stem the a canon from the TOWER-ENDING to keep V fighting as the protagonist in the sequel.
At the end of my first playthrough of Cyberpunk all the way back a month after the game came out, I went for the raid of Arasaka Tower with Rogue and then gave V's body to Johnny, It felt right after doing the reunion concert and other Johnny centric quests. V could only get 6 months while Johnny, or rather this engram of Johnny, gets to live a whole new life after having Saburo rip his away while fighting for revenge, consumed by rage. You as V have to ability to help Johnny mend his wrongs and start anew or cling on to V's dying body trying again to do a crazy heist or roam the wastes. To me at least Johnny keeping V's body is the canon ending, by the end of the game V is the engram in a foreign body.
I dont think V died at the landfill or that'd defeat the purpose of that optional dialogue with Alt during V's first meeting with her in cyberspace, and would take away from the weight of getting killed by soulkiller later. Rather V died when they got fried at Mikoshi, and the V that came out of Arasaka after is no longer "alive" in a sense. Its just an Ai puppeted body much like if you let Johnny take it. So essentially no matter what choice was made whether V kept it or V lets Johnny take it, its all the same. The only outcome that would have let V "live" ironically was to let the relic do what it was supposed to do and let it change V's body and mind into Johnny's. Because although yes V would lose the core of what makes a person a person i.e their memories and self identity, it would've kept them "alive". Its pretty funny that V pre Phantom liberty was just fated to die no matter what they did and the whole game post waking up from the landfill was really just some sad attempt to reclaim something that fate dictated. Even in the face in the crowd ending V died as well, but in a more figurative sense. They lived, sure but who they were and who they were supposed to be died on that operating table.
I am willing to bet I am one of the few that chose my particular ending as their first ending, and even more, I bet most people never chose this option. This body may not be mine any longer, but it is not Johnny's AI body either, so believing that neither of us deserved the body, I committed suicide so I could go out on my own terms. I then replayed before I saw one of the "true endings" Also remember the meaning of life is 42 or a mistake!
after playing since launch, after tons of playthroughs, after ff06b5 brainroot and everything this game has to offer, I can say you made a great video about whole story and motives in the game
I think you have it right Tez. I think everything after the heist goes sideways is a the last bit of V's consciousness trying to come to terms with the end of not only their live but Jackie's life. It always struck me that if the Relic had the ability to do what it did for V, it should have done it for Jackie. It did not. So in my mind, as V lays on the floor of the No Tell Motel dying from being shot in the head, everything that comes afterwards is their life flashing before their eyes.
I guess Jackie took it out just before he died, he'd been in the same boat as V otherwise. His actions saved us from instant death and gave us a period of time to redeem ourselves.
I do believe handing over your body to Johnny is canon. V’s whole arc is coming to terms with the fact that he died and making use of his time prior to Mikoshi, and then moving on.
Great video! For me, the story of Cyberpunk wasn't about V surviving, but Johnny getting a chance to revisit this life, try to correct pass wrongs, come to terms with his death and finally move on; while V stay behind to continue fighting for his own life and hopefully make right his own wrongs.
Great point, and I agree, it had a lot to do with that. EDIT: By the way I like your MAX avatar. The original Sam & Max game was one of my favourite LucasArts games as a teenager. Right up there with Grim Fandango and Day of The Tentacle.
4:49 this theory hinges on the assumption that V did indeed suffer brain death,there is plenty of real world occurrences where people have survived such trauma,although V would of died eventually from blood lose & shock if they hadn't of been found,as proven shortly later whilst in the car. I still watched to the end though & it is an interesting theory. 👍
I actually thought that V was dead at the very beginning when they get shot, everything after that was a death moment dream as the chip overwrites her brain.
Interesting video. On the subject of the cats(or cat if it is indeed a bakeneko) I've made it a side mission to note as many as I've been able to find and think about what that could mean. It is of course possible it means nothing, but I personally think it's unlikely given not only what is said about the animals dying out and then to have one or more sphynxes appear before us at several points throughout our journey. Death walks in our wake after all. One bakeneko sighting I only recently noticed is during the first meeting with Oda, there in the background while talking to Takemura it sits in the shadows on top of a wrecked car if I remember it correctly. At that point I knew about the bakeneko conversation down the line, and thought; "huh, that could be a sign perhaps". If you then go to Misty to have her lay your tarot, and excuse me if part of this is difficult to replicate I simply do not know when the different triggers occur for the outcomes. If/when she draws the hierophant (which you find at the meeting place with Takemura and Oda) Misty will point out that this is a particularly dangerous card and caution us not to listen to it's human counterpart. And if Takemura is the hierophant, which I think is the likely symbolism then his promises are not to be trusted. The bakeneko could simply be there to warn us of the doom that awaits us if we put our trust in Takemura. If you want to look further still, in tarot apparently the sphinx represents duality and opposites and being pulled in different directions. Having to navigate that to find your own way or balance. This would potentially mean that Takemura might not be the focus here but rather just another pull for us to take into account when finding our way.
Given that AI Alt is likely the individual refered to as Lilith in the game, who is a Dark Goddess of the Underworld and Death, and has worshippers in her own name of a form in the VooDoo Boys, I think of AI Alt being the Dark Goddess of the Net. After all in the tabletop game, her human avatar/daughter is called Angel by Michael Pondsmith. Kind of telling by the IP creator.
Great existential video, excellent coverage on the various themes & I love the historical/mythos referenced. This is almost like M Night Shyamalan Cyberpunk... with a twist! V is dead to begin with. Love it! 😅 As Judy puts it, "walking talking corpses" aka "I see dead people" To answer the question 15:36 I believe V has as much right to their body as before the heist, if not for this J-O-B as Jackie says (essentially Relic Johnny), they'd both be alive still. Doing business with DexSUS Christ is a deal with the devil after all, as with the Voodoo Boys, you're more likely to end up dead as a matter of business practice. This brings up a thought I've had in the past, "who was Yorinobu intending on using this Relic on?" and "did he secretly plan the heist to get a pawn?" 🤔 Who's really to blame here? Johnny the nefarious engram, Yorinobu the secretive hero, DexSUS the greedy trigger finger who likely wouldn't have paid them expecting their demise. Or really is V to blame? Ambition, greed, hubris... are we truly in control of our lives? As the Oracle says in the Matrix, our path is predefined, we only see roadblocks, the choices we've already made, which strands we follow down the rabbit hole... are we defined by our nature? Cyberpunk was a very well written story, with few plot holes... either due to limitations from crunch time/changes in development, or they player choosing a path which is 'optional' yet not canon. You brought up a lot of interesting points, and raised some questions I'm sure many of us have thought or maybe never considered.
Yeah, the problem with that and the themes it touches on in the game is that they are based on thinking that precludes any relevance of biology - problem is that when discussing both the notion of death and the notion of a right to a physical body, biology is kinda important. Once you take biology into account, the question as to who has a right to the body is much less tricky. But that's the least of the problems. Once you take biology into account, the whole quandary comes apart at its seams. It's a typical propblem created by writers fascinated with electronics and mechanics, but without any understanding of physiology. The problem is, of course, that when discussing direct interfaces between our bodies, our minds and the digital world, understanding how our bodies work is kinda important. And phrases like "converting your grey matter to its own DNA" are symptomatic for that. I was hyped about the game since it was first announced. Alas, my professional background prevents me from wanting to engage with its main quest in any way.
I always thought Johnny taking the body is the most likely cannon with raid in the space station as the 2nd most likely until phantom liberty which I think is the cannon ending now with V losing his connection with cyberwear and militech taking over nightcity
Just like there are multiple deaths, multiple Vs male and female with different life paths, there are multiple ways V could return. From beyond the blackwall, or by surviving a bit longer than Alt expected, or by some new experimental tech that repairs the damage that keeps V from using cyberware. Johnny is still out there in some form as well. No telling how or if some or most of the principals could return, or if we'll start next game as "Z." But how is Johnny any different than V, who after Mikoshi is also an engram? You could say she's also reborn in her own body, and going back doesn't kill Johnny. He continues on with Alt. In that ending he doesn't take any sympathy from you, tells you to shut up and go back. I don't think he was exactly "born" in V's body, he's already in the relic, and says something like he's already been in cyberspace from before they met, so he can survive behind the blackwall better than V. Anyway, especially if you were a female V, would you really trust the guy having free run of your body? Kind of gross to think about. 😂 And I find his ending kind of lame anyway... not just because V goes away, his existence is kind of sad and boring, unlike the ones where V gets their second chance for a short time, to live out an existence with a new family, or go out in a blaze of glory.
It wouldn't be bad writing for V to get cured. The technomancers Panam wanted to go to for help are so good they even have Arasaka coming to them for help, so it's very believable they can cure V. You could argue it would take away from the themes, but actually it would just shoft to be more focused on hope and faith. V is running on faith the whole time. That final decision to go back to her body is just as much an act of faith as leaving with Alt. V is only 23. Johnny died at 34. Even Johnny gives props to V for being a much better person despite having 10 years less experience. Although it might not be the right ending, it is the more hopeful ending. V and Mr Blue Eyes stand more vhance of making the world a better place. Arasaka is left in shambles and the girl who did that to them is still alive and ready to tango. With the support of Mr Blue Eyes, V could potentially be a positive change for the entire world within those last 6 months. But since this is the cyberpunk genre, that's might actually be too happy and ending to be canon
Bad is possibly unfair. Lazy is more what I mean like the old Dallas trope of "It was all a dream". It's just a cop out to do that. It takes the weight and gravitas out of the original dilemma.
Don't fear the reaper allows you to chose new dawn fades. People think New Dawn fades is a separate ending but it's not, it's an ending. DFTR is a route to either Path of Glory or New Dawn Fades... Don't worry choom, you're not alone in making this mistake.
You missed a few things but your generally right however the ending you choose is open to interpretation. IE the the sticker on the back of the nomad car is the same sequences of colors in an in game Easter egg. There is also a reference to it in both the other beginnings but not as an image of a mountain, this also takes you back to the concept of the T if you didn't see it you may have missed it but in all honesty i hope you played the art of the game of the crucifix and that alone may have clued you in. and if your still wondering , Deus Ex Machina, via two nature paradox when considering Abrahamic religious. thus the reason why you see Monks who try to guide.
Reaching a bit for me. It is a role playing game, hence the multiple endings. If you want to believe you are dead from the beginning, go for it. The Relic is partly organic though and could have kept our brain functioning till Takemura finds us. Hellman also mentions that Johnny may be influencing our thinking and decisions, but this is moot since we are playing and can choose his way or our way. To many options to be specific about whats happening in the game. Alt would also know if we were already dead, yet she still makes the effort to split Johnny and V apart. Yes I'm babbling.....
I don't think we can be sure if there is a canon ending until the next game comes out. CDPR will have to at least strongly hint at one, or two, of the endings being canon in the next game, by the state Arasaka is in. Unless it is set before CP2077?
Misty reads V's tarot cards after going with Alt, and Misty says V's cards show he's had a fate WORSE than death. It's surprising you didn't mention that.
the game never really brings up how v is eeffectivl a zombie through out most of the game. it jjust treats it as a living on barroowed time/ living with a clinical sicknes scenerio.
It's only a game to me I don't give any of this a second thought. I just run around the map and complete the various tasks. I do try different builds and tactics, but no real thought is involved. I don't play all the way through anymore I stop and restart when I max out V, don't see the point of seeing the ending I've already seen. That said I enjoy your videos on the game.
Bottom line, CDPR writing staff is amazing and the team implementing the writing to gameplay and cutscenes is magic. Forget about visual fidelity, its the story and writing that this game shines in. Thats why people keep replaying it, it hits you in the feels when you play it, so rarely that happens with games nowadays.
Facts my choom, cold hard facts! AND now graphics across the board are so good is hands down the most important part of gaming now. Great story characters AND performance.
Defibrillators resurrect people in real life all the time. We lose consciousness every time we go to sleep. Just because we died doesn't mean there's an alive anymore.
Of course people get defibbed, it's why I talked about duration, there is a time-limit. You're quite incorrect about your understanding of brain anatomy. Loss of consciousness is not the same as brain death due to 6 minutes of oxygen deprivation. Jesus, if our hearts stopped and our brains stopped receiving oxygen every time we slept none of us would survive our first night outside of the womb. When someone is knocked out it is not the same as being shot in the head and our hearts stopping due to trauma. Although medical advancements have brought many miracles, generally severe head wounds - especially ones left untreated overnight - are "usually" no return, head straight to heaven, don't collect 200 as you pass the pearly gates.
You say the game is about death, but it's also about ressurection, or rather reincarnation. Another game that this reminds me of is NieR:Automata. Spoiler alert. The characters come back to life at the end, if the players chooses to sacrifice themselves for the in game characters by sacrificing their save data. That's akin to Johnny sacrificing himself for V. You could argue Johnny actually has a better redemption ark by sacrifing his life for V. Johnny was alive thanks to a soldier how sacrificed his life in the war. For Johnny to then do the same for V makes more narrative sense than for him to have his cake and eat it to. If Johnny keeps the body, that means he got to live for 34 years as a narcissist, using everybody, even originally threatening to kill V, killing his own output, but then he luckily wakes up in the most powerful being in Night City's head, gets to see revenge on Adam Smasher, and Arasaka tower gets taken over by his super hot and smart output, and ON TOP OF ALL THAT, Johnny gets to take V's younger fitter body with state of the art military grade cyberwear and live an even longer life starting from age 23. To me, that seems like everything just went too well for Johnny. The man literally just got to do whatever he wanted in life, then woke up in a benevolent altruistic super-cyborg's head, AND got a get iut of jail free card from her giving up her own body for him. Nah. The more I think about it, the more I think Johnny needed to give V the body back to truly prove himself. Obviously Johnny wasn't literally evil. He was trying to save the world from Arasaka, but he was still a massive narcissist, and I'm not sure how much his intentions were motivated by the validation he wanted from being a hero, and how much it was actually about helping the people. One last thing. Johnny is Guy Fawks, and V is V, as in the V from V for Vendetta (VFV). In VFV, Guy Fawks is in V's head as he is the inspiration for V, similarly to how Johnny is in Valerie's head and is her inspiration for attacking Arasaka. In the end of V for Vendetta, Guy Fawks and V are BOTH dead as V savrifices his life. If V gets the body, then V could die in 6 months, and Johnny is certainly dead and in the digital afterlife. The Cyberpunk 2077 story more faithfully mirrors V for Vendetta if V gets the body
Absolutely the relic is supposed to be for reincarnation, but on this one occasion it facilitates Resurrection i talk about this in the video, and ascension also. It's not all just about death, I'm not postulating that at all.
IMHO the best or most cannon ending depends on your life path. Corpo V works for Arasaka, it makes sense that they'd in the end side with Arasaka. Nomad V going to nomad ending street kid V storming the tower with Rougue. Corp V and Nomad going with NUSA Street kid siding with songbird. As for V being brain dead and all of that. Not really. Dex used a small caliber, V was just unconsciouss and the relics nanites gave some added resilience, repaired things.
Johnny getting Vs body is the only way both get to live. and Jonnys not done with Arasaka and hes gonna need help. getting V a new body only makes sence.
Seeing how he's possessed vessel beyond the blackwall...as well as in this world elons neuralink is already thing one that is known to make paralyzed people slowly become mobile again etc so something else to take in consideration that in the future it may somewhat keep your brain intact and Johns memories slowly override the shit that was lost in v memory bank I think there should've been a option to fuse together like Delamain...best we get is hangout here with alt johnny theres another mikoshi base on the moon if people forgot...so crystal palace anyone it's on the way there....
And the cat is a decandant of death wish it's name is nibbles which is Bartmoss cat so remember blue eyes/Bartmoss is always watching and what your path....and the pyramid in mikoshi/beyond the blackwall is for Alt there's about 40/50 years of backstory to go thru there choom....and not true some people wind up in Mikoshi when they die why do you think Silverhands biggest complaint is in this game your deprived death....they manipulate you're and squeeze you even in death ....and you see that symbol a few times besides the nomad life path just gotta be observant play the other walk throughs again...and Johnny's memories are combined between Morgan Blackhands....played this game way too long for someone just to say Vs dead the entire time makes no sense...
Ok, if you are dead after the landfill and you shouldn't be there, and the body should be Johnny's, where is the logic in here as Johnny is even "more" dead. He's been dead for 50 years.
The chip has Johnny on it, but I think everything after the headshot is the chip as it reads the host brain and prepares it for the reformat, so the time the player spends controlling is happening in seconds as the data of V is overwritten.
I want to replay but my ps4 keeps spitting out the disc after a few minutes. And only with Cyberpunk 2077… Pro Skater 1+2 remake, fine… Red Dead 2, fine… and so on. It just doesn’t like Cyberpunk 2077.
Time to think about snagging an oul upgrade, I wonder if there will be some good PS5 deals now that the PS5 pro is coming out. TBH, this looks and plays amazing on the PS5, you dont need the pro my choom.
Guys have you all not played SOMA? V is dead and so is Johnny so the whole struggle is meaningless. It doesn't matter which DIGITAL entity gets to pilot the walking corpse. Therefore all of the endings are basically cheap attempts by the writers to create an illusion of choice in their not-so-rpg-but-marketed-otherwise game. It's that simple.
the whole game is a Johnny's memory or thoughts, dreams, about V, kinda "WHAT IF". the canon ending is a new dawn fades (temperance), if you listen to what Silverhand says, he already knew everything when you talk to him. at Oil fields he already knew that he failed save Vs life the way how you skip dialogue is literally a hint and Johnny dont have access to all memories only most recent one - and this is a prologue, minimal information. JS is a second main character, if not a first. and he is a beloved character of Mike Podsmith, like his son, dude spend years to bring him back, even black dog mission, no way he dies after few weeks of cyberpunk 2077 game timeline because some kids want f**k Panam, at this rate 2077 wont be a canon with his writings
No one still really know whether V will appear in Orion or not. The only way to be sure is to play the game when it comes out. Human talk is always cheap. And if yes, then I do hope V becomes an antagonist so I can kill him/her. 😈
honestly it comes down to if you believe a terrorist character who lies to you all the way thew tge game jhonny main goal was to make the player let him take v body and I think tez for got about the new ending to cyberpunk waer v 100% alive now we the players do get lied to buy arasaka and alt what is the lie telling v has 6 moth to live is a lie and cyberpunk kinda lies to us about jhonny ability to live on in v boddy that's flase because sill the same damage brain so opinion that cyberpunk is lieing to the player or honestly half ass bad stroy telling buy the devs now cyberpunk 2 if it's going to be more American I dnt see them using jhonny again and the arasaka stroy honestly they nerd no biochip carp v needs to return not as main character as a fixer who player character works for
2:24 -considering that Johnny was originally meant to be a sidequest without major affect on the world, but they changed direction after Keanu entered the project, I feel you are full of shit.
@@handsomeTez statement of fact. It's inconsequential for me whether you feel offended by that. And @angel8fingers, crudeness exists for a reason. Some ideas require it to convey the meaning.
Party foul, dude. No more beer for you Yes, CDPR did make changes to the game to accommodate Keanu's desire to participate more in the game. But did it occur to you that, maybe, the devs decided to make some changes to the storyline that would make Johnny's role in the game more substantial? Last-minute changes to a story are not uncommon-even ones that fundamentally alter the ending.
