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Emissions is nonsense. Motorcycles represent such a small part of the problem they are arguably irrelevant. So many sexy engines no longer on the market. So much horsepower left on the drawing board. Very sad
I wish they would treat motorcycles as the low emission and non congestion causing vehicles that they are. Should give tax benefits, low tolls and all that.
@@rientsdijkstra4266 within reason. It’s like blaming global warming on the FACT that you chose to comment instead of planting a tree. You must not care.
The Honda VFC is also one of my favorites. I learned to ride on a Honda Magna V30 (500cc), moved up to a 3rd gen 750 Magna and it's still my daily rider. It just goes and goes!
GSX-RR was crossplane design... And ducati "superior v4" is dominating WSBK with rules that allows it 16100 RPM while kawasakis inline 4 is limited by regulations to 15100 RPM to level the playing field.... and that is for 2024 season, in 2022 ducati was allowed 16100 while kawasaki was limited by rules to 14100... So V4 is "dominating WSBK" when you put on it 60kg rider and put 2000RPM penalty to competitor....
👍 Good point for Suzuki motogp engine. V4 doesn't help Honda apparently. 🤔 Ducati is winning. I guess it is related with having 6 or 8 bikes on the track (with satellite teams) and with that huge amount of precious data. Huge amounts of money were and are needed for that I guess.
@@lillaspaden WSBK organisers are doing that to make races interesting by keeping bike performances more or less equal, the thing is most people dont know that, they see "X" bike winning and assume that is becouse of its "superior engine configuration"
I went from a lifetime (20+ years) of only inline 4 sport bikes. They were good. Last year I got Tuono, and honestly I’d never go back to an I4. The bottom end and midrange aren’t even close and the sound of that engine with SC project “exhaust” (it’s an open pipe with no cat), is absolute heaven. I’m biased but I bought that bike over Ducati because the sound is my favorite.
It was the cruise control that sold it for me. I got the Tuono V4 too last year. Although I will say its engine note is extremely satisfying. It’s just icing on the proverbial cake.
have a 2014 vfr 800. I've sat on literally 100 newer bikes since then and never purchased one.. My V4 honda is just so damn well made.... my only dream is they make a new Honda VFR 1000 or something with a new V4 engine.
Probably not the sort of bike that fits with the channels target audience. However I own one and currently own or have had bikes of every engine configuration, single, v2, inline 2, inline 4, flat 6, triple. Bottom line, the V4 in the magna is the sweetest of them all, I like it even more than the Goldwing 6. There’s just something really special about the balance, sound, feel and power delivery. Oh and it is incredibly reliable too.
@@ultimateiphonedng8756 i Like the looks of Norton V4CR but its priced on the higher side & not available in my country. how do you like the inline-6 engine of BMW K1600GT in case you have tried it ? . . . smoother than Boxer/Flat-6 of Goldwing ? and, 90° V4 of Ducati versus 65° V4 of Aprilia ? thanks
My 1994 Magna is still my daily ride! It just goes and goes! Just yesterday, while riding 2 up, I had no issue flicking the throttle and passing while changing elevation and road camber in these hills. 85 mph and it had plenty more room to zoom.
I read somewhere on the internet that part of the reason V4’s dominate in MotoGP is because part of the crankshaft is external, allowing manufacturers to add weights, which change the characteristics of the power delivery, depending on the track
This changes all the time, Kawasaki won superbike 6 years in a row with a inline 4 from 2015, remember when cars started using much v4's, the inline 4 where much better
Winning 6 years in a row is a reason kawasaki now have lowest rpm limit on the grid set by rules, and people think ducati is winning because its "superior v4"
Great vid dude. I've a 25 Yr old VFR, although has only 14k miles on it. I live deep in the countryside on a twisty+bumpy road and can only ride cautiously as many blind corners. Find just cruise it and actually behaves pretty much like a big old single with tons of bottom end torque, V4's all the way!
Totally agree with other comments. Honda had it right with the VFR. I actually owned a Honda NR750 is ‘93 when I was stationed in Japan, it was ferocious.
I keep a 5th gen VFR800. The sound, performance and reliability of that V4 are great. As I am not getting any younger, I wish the bike was lighter and lower though. 🙂
I had a Honda V-65 Sabre for 20 years. That V-4 was a beast and extremely dependable. I put a few batteries, tires and replaced the rear wheel bearings in all those years. The thing I remember most was the beautiful sound it made. That is what I really miss about that bike. Nope, I left the exhaust stock, it was awesome!
I'm not a racer or a connoiseur of modern superbikes, but I found the science interesting. I've only owned four bikes in my lifetime, the current one being the Kawasake Vulcan S 650, but I did have one of the early CB750s when I was stationed in Japan. Awesome bike; I wish I had it back.
A lot of what's "Winning" on the track has a little bit to do w/ the weather, the tires, & like the rider who harnessing all that as he hangs on for dear life? Who knows which motor is the absolute best & why does it really matter as long as you can get up to 180+MPH when the cops flip on the lights? Besides, I'd bet a champ racer w/ a much smaller bike could wax Yammie on his 1000RR..... so it really doesn't matter to the squid. peace & be safe
Have owned and run the following formats - parallel twin, in-line 4, OHC driven v4, desmo driven v4, gear driven v4, inline triple. The Duke V4S was not just hot on your thighs and legs, it was bloody painful at anything less than 75mph when the air flow removed the heat. As a road bike, it was a joke. But as a race/track bike it was supreme. The ‘Prilia Tuono Factory was a mighty fine engine, but 32mpg even when riding like your gran is not acceptable. The 675R was a peach, and matched the chassis perfectly. God I miss that bike. The inline 4s (FireBlade RRV, GSX-R K5 & L7, BMW S1000RR) are all efficient, effective, reliable, and intuitive - and buzzy. The VFR was, well, VFRy - the feel is like a long elastic catapult when you wind on the power, and the gear whine sound remains iconic. So, horses for courses, but, be very careful with those high end Dukes, and test ride the roads on a hot sunny day before you even think about buying one.
VERY WELL DONE video!!!! I love and have loved learning about motorcycles all my life and have been stuck on " screamers" for most of that time because, well . . . I LOVE going FAST, but you've educated me to think about the V4 potential. My dad bike (Yamaha FJR 1300) suit my needs for touring AND RIPPING it up but I rode my friend's Super Duke in sport mode on a twisty Colorado mountain road and was thoroughly impressed with it. Now I understand a little more as to why. Hate that you said E Bikes are coming for us all but maybe I croak before they MAKE ME switch over. THANKS AGAIN Noob!! Keep 'em coming and stay safe out there.
I can't decide what I like there both sick I've had both before and loved both but I have to say the symphony of that inline 4 screaming under your butt..but the rumble of the v4 is sick to.love them both.😊
I love my KTM V-twin, but I do love me a good V4. If Ducati's weren't so much more expensive, I may have just bought a Multistrada over my Super Adventure, but the Multistrada was an extra $10k. I love me a V4, but not $10k more. It's ok anyway, the extra torque on the V-twin is more useful anyway. =)
I have a hard time believing the 'uneven' power output to the rear tire amounts to anything. Crankshafts have counterweights so it evens out the power delivery and your engine is revving regardless of speed approx 20 times per wheel revolution. Feels insignificant, are there any sources to back this up?
To you and me it amounts to nothing more than a feeling of character. If you're a professional racer, it matters. Back in the 00's when I followed this stuff, Honda had a V5 in MotoGP and this difference was basically all they talked about for a time.
Two out of the last three MotoGP winners (Quartararo and Mir) had inline fours. In the last 10 years, seven World SBK champtionships (Rea x 6 and Razgatlıoglu x 1) were won on an inline four. I'm not sure I can agree that V4's are unbeatable. And this coming from someone that used to own one.
If you're going for ten years in WSBK, then it should be the same benchmark for MotoGP. Only 2 inline fours in the last decade have won MotoGP. Yamaha won twice, and Suzuki once. That's seven out of the last ten MotoGP Champions on a V4. It should also be noted, in WSBK, Ducati still used V twin engines until 2018, when Aprilia left. So for that decade you refer to, with the exception of one year, there was only one V4, Aprilia until 2018, and Ducati from 2018 to present. The grid was overwhelmingly Inline 4 for those ten years. Jonathan Rea winning six of the last ten years in WSBK, is arguably more about him as a rider, than it is about Kawasaki. Had to add 2 cents, because to make your point, you left out any information that might go against your narrative, or as they say, "cherry picking".
I love your work even from the early days. I enjoy your explanations also. I am an older biker, some 52 years worth. BTW I like your tattoo on your L upper arm, very nice. Please carry on Sir. Australian here
I am going to have to call this one out.... OK SO lets start with racing and the WSBK series in particular. The Ducati has a much shorter stroke than the other bikes at 48.4mm stroke and the Yamaha is 50.9mm stroke and the Kawasaki is 55mm stroke . The BMW is 49.7mm stroke and we know it is not slow through the speed traps but the bike is not the best chassis for racing and Toprak must have an idea that something new is happening with the chassis for him to leave a race winning team to go to BMW. Kawasaki can build a powerful motor but with who dominant they had been they were given RPM caps to try to level the playing field. But the key thing is ALL the bikes baseline rev limits are based on the standard bikes rev limit out of the factory and the Ducati simply has the highest one out of the crate so will have the advantage. Moto GP..... V4's are the engine of choice because Honda were dominant with their V engines from the V5 Moto GP then the V4 and Ducati has a history of building V engines so its a known to them and their chassis development team. But remember when Rossi went to Ducati and couldn't win on the bike? The Ducati was very different and only Stoner could make it work and even now the KTM and Aprilia its not one that seems to work naturally for anyone who came from an inline 4 engine. The Yamaha had never been the fastest bike in a straight line and if you listen to what Fabio had been saying the issue is more with aero and chassis than power. Yes more power would be good but also remember Yamaha had an issue when they were found to be using another supplier for engine valves and not the ones which were homologated after the original supplier's valves had issues and would break so Yamaha had to revert back to that bad batch of valves and this put them behind on engine development for a year which is a LONG time in racing. Crankshaft design and configuration... OK so crank weight is not really an issue as the inline 4 only has to have counterweights for each rod and piston on each journal so the counterweight can be surprisingly narrow if it has some small densamet plugs added at 180 degrees to the crank pin. This reduces the rotational mass overall and make a lightweight crank. The old F1 V10 cranks weighed less than a typical 1000cc road bike crank. ( I know because I have made Cosworth, Yamaha and Ilmor (Mercedes) V10 cranks and I designed the works Yamaha R7 world superbike crank which was almost 2kg (4.4lbs) less than the stock OEM crank. The V4 has a pair of rods and pistons on each journal so needs to have larger journals for strength as you have double the loading on each journal and the counterweight needs to be larger to balance all of this weight. You also have to have a balance factor as it is effectively a V twin crank design with 4 pistons and the balance factor adds weight.. So the V4 needs to run a shorter stroke to make it work as well as an inline 4 of the same capacity. It does narrow the engine so will help package the bikes aero better but the issue is even most 4 cylinder engines are no wider than the riders shoulders and the riders legs which he it riding and you have the width of the fuel tank and airbox which is much larger on a Moto GP bike than a road bike would use. so ultimately the bike is going to have to be as wide as it needs with a rider seated on the bike. So the frontal area is not as significantly smaller for a V4 as many would think. Kawasaki has to try to get a rev limit higher than would be normally used, for a bike with a 55mm stroke, fitted Titanium Pankl rods to reduce the mass of the piston and rod so the crank can also be made lighter with less counterweight needed. It would be pushing the limit of what the piston rings can cope with but this is what Kawasaki needed to do to get a higher rev limit on the ZX10RR version to go racing. As a note now Round 1 of the WSBK at Philip Island has finished the Kawasaki has won a couple of races and the rev limit is back at 15,100rpm when it had been dropped to 14,600rpm at one point. Also Ducati had a 250rpm reduction in its rev limit at the end of 2023 which is where they had to start 2024. So Kawasaki got back 500rpm and Ducati lost 250rpm. SO it is not as simple as being a V4 which is going to be the best engine and the power pulse thing is not as much of an issue with modern ECU's as 220BHP+ (Superbike) and 270BHP+ (Moto GP) from an engine is always more than enough to give tyres a hard time out of corners.
As a tour operator that does a lot of track time I'll say the V4 not only represents the best on the track but also the best for sport touring in big machines like the MTSV4, which is a honking big motorcycle. We use most S1000RR on track but also use Panigale V4 and V2 as well as R1. The S1000RR is easiest to ride, and makes it easy to work on your riding rather than futzing with the bike. The R1 has character and might be more fun but isn't as smooth so it comes down to rider ability mostly. The Panigale V4 is an absolute beast that will shred the lap times of the other two but it's not very forgiving.
You say the v4 un even firing order helps give the tire more rest. However, doesn't it also counter that by also putting more power into a smaller portion of the tire, which could cause the tire to break loose?
Ahhh... No, I think the lower center of gravity is why they're better on the track. An even "power pulse" is theoretically superior as it's spread out more and less likely to begin slipping, meaning you have a larger margin
I was thinking the same thing. The way he explained it didnt sound like a benefit at all. more of trading off less slip in one patch for more slip in another.
Bought myself a Ducati SFV4s grey Nero. Wanted something I could track but would suit the 6+ hour weekend days in the saddle. I can do sports bikes ergos, for an hour without being too uncomfortable. They’re made for a track after all! I’ve mostly have i4s down through the years. Love them too but I crave more low down grunt. The v4 is the most insane platform I’ve sat on. Huge torque , down low pull but still has that 15500 rpm available. Nuts . They also sound better in real life, like a deep rumble lion growl, speakers don’t pick it up.
Why does everyone say the Japanese made the inline 4 cylinder popular, the first mass produced inline 4 was the Americans ........ Never forget the Indian, I think it was way to expensive but there you go they were first to make em many 😮 ok thanks
Own a 1985 Honda VF 500F Interceptor, love it to bits, literally, it doesnt run thanks to being left abandoned for 13+ years, but it shall be resurrected! If i can fix the fueling and idling issue....
Seems to me the missing component is the rules-imposed rev-limits, which overwhelmingly slant towards Ducati that gets fully 1000RPM advantage over Kawasaki and even 500RPM over Honda -- it's just artificial handicapping, not superior configurations or engineering... Kawasaki: 15100; Ducati: 16100; Yamaha: 15200; BMW: 15500; Honda: 15600. This is all done with a stroke of a pen, not AI, computer or slide-rule...
Seems to me the missing component is the rules-imposed rev-limits, which overwhelmingly slant towards Ducati that gets fully 1000RPM advantage over Kawasaki and even 500RPM over Honda -- it's just artificial handicapping, not superior configurations or engineering... Kawasaki: 15100; Ducati: 16100; Yamaha: 15200; BMW: 15500; Honda: 15600. This is all done with a stroke of a pen, not AI, computer or slide-rule...
Whichever configuration dominates currently THAT is what gets eventually adopted whether or not the config itself was ever REALLY the key or not...just how our pea brains work....I mean who even really KNOWS what else COULD win given the money determination and just the right key players...AND that the GP RULES allow to even TRY. Technically the rules (IMHO) SHOULD reflect what will be best for the CONSUMERS including environmental....EVEN if V4s have lets say a .01% advantage over inline seriously WHO CARES if it costs consumers more and wastes more resources?? IMHO the rules committee needs to take EVERYTHING into consideration...Id even say make ALL the manufactures use the identical basic platform that could save a ton of money and allow more teams into the game....then even production motorcycles could use that same BASE....never happen though because manufacturers love to make old stuff obsolete so no one hardly wants to keep the same bike for decades....which is just a wasteful SHAME IMHO! What if INSTEAD they all continuously made upgrade kits? So instead of buying a whole new bike you buy the latest kit which adds electronics one year, suspension another, brakes another....the old bike stays current if you like and factoried can focus on total quality! Bikes becoming absolute gems! Rather than obsolete funny looking junk ....which is what manufactures manipulate the market into believing
Fortnine and now you have clarified for me why Kawasaki and Yamaha seem to have abandoned the Concourse and FJR respectively. I ride a BMW R1250RT, and sadly there aren't many alternatives now in the shaft-driven sporty-tourer market. It looks as though the emissions challenge has done for these four-cylinder rivals. In terms of the V-4 versus inline-4 debate, my vote would be for the V-4. I prefer its engine growl and I like the sophistication of the design. While I smile when I hear the howl of an inline-4 heading for its redline, I've no wish to be producing that noise myself - apart from anything else it's alerting every cop in the county! Good film. Thanks.
Wouldn't mind bringing back those clapped out 20k rpm monsters from the past that used 250cc engines, 50 hp and 3 ballancing crank shafts......... And see my mechanic wither away when opening the engine and realizing what he's going into ........
Roadbikes have their own reasons for choosing one packaging over another, but in MotoGP the arrangement of the cylinders is not the determining factor for success. Engines are air-pumps, and the arrangement of cylinders makes no difference to potential power. Packaging decisions are made for other reasons, and it's the ability to make the combination work that is the win/lose result. Honda's v4 had a miserable 2023 because they could not get the rest of the combination to work. Yamaha was the only i4 engine in 2023, and was woefully under developed, so could not apply the same level of downforce as competitors. The year before, Suzuki's i4 was competitive.
Just because a single company is dominating and they happe to use V4 fails to prove it is THE key difference Before Suzuki pulled out of MotoGP their inline 4 suddenly was WINNING against V4s The firing order can be dupociated with an inline ala Tamaha CP4
One key thing that you surprisingly missed here is that the Ducati v4 engine runs backwards, I.e counter clockwise to the direction of the wheels. The gyroscopic effect of this has been amazing in helping turn the bike quicker and recover it making it much more nimble in handling. This has had a tremendous result in moto gp!
84 vf1100s here. there is no sound better for a four. rock solid over time. stable(well taken care of) and will still do a 10+ second 1/4 mile. eats tyres and clutches are every fourth oil change (mountain riding). in my experience the newer the bike the more likely it will be a brick because of an electronic component being N.L.A. biased? yup. do i own a cruiser? nope. 48 years and counting behind the handlebars.
Yammie here’s a video idea. Take the bmw and a v4 bike like a ducati or Aprilia to the track. I’ve seen a lot of videos of sportbike competitions on the track and the bmw tends to always win. Would be nice to see how you do with an inline 4 vs v4. I personally think you’d do better with the bmw
If you want to go fast on a motorcycle, you’ll need to learn how to ride fast. Fast guy on a slow bike beats slow guy on a fast bike every single time.
V=More space available More space = more displacement. More displacement = MO POWA BAYYY BEEEE! Basically you can get more displacement out of the limited space available on motorcycles frame with the V configuration vs inline configuration. The reason it’s not used on cars is simply because it cost more to manufacture V style engines and when you have a whole engine bay of a car, you can pretty much fit four cylinders no problem and easily turbo charge for supercharge and in line on a car, so there’s no point in spending the extra money for V configuration, but on a motorcycle, it is worth spending the extra money to manufacture a V style engine, because that little bit more you gain goes long ways on a bike.
Note that a huge part of motor conguration is due to GP RULES to keep manufacutres from getting carried away....Honda if unshckaled might be using V12s or who knows what? But the rules reigned em in
Realistically we can only say anything about the advantages of V4 is when all the electronic and aero aids are taken out. True motorcycle racing is 80% rider and 20% motorcycle - "Jeremy Burgess".
Aerodynamics is one thing but weight bias is another I would not surprise me to at some point see inlines back on top...I think a turbo 3 cyclinder could be a real sweet spot! ....would require rule changes but who knows? 2030 motogp? 500cc turbo triples?
Good video but... There is no reference at all to the primary and secondary balance issues with certain configurations of engines. The inline-4 is the worst in this area as although the power pulses can feel smooth, the actual engine is not in perfect balance because of that firing order. A 6-cylinder inline wipes the floor with a 4-cylinder inline in terms of engine balance as the power pulses cancel out the balance issues caused by the pistons going up, stopping, and then coming back down. The V4 is better in this respect than the inline-4. Primary and secondary balance forces are important when it comes to high revs as basically a 4-cylinder engine is trying to shake itself to bits at higher RPM and often requires a balancer shaft to compensate etc. And the main reason why inline-4 is so popular in motorcycle racing is that with the exception of MotoGP, the bikes are based on road bikes and the superbikes are mostly made with 4-cylinder engines as they are the cheapest, simplest and easiest to produce. For MotoGP of course, these are prototype engines so don't need to be based on production engines which are mostly inline-4 engines. Ride an inline-6 or flat-6 horizontally opposed engined motorcycle such as BMW K1600 or Honda Goldwing and you realise that 4-cylinder engines are not that smooth and are actually a triumph of modern electronics and production tolerances over engine architecture
I’m convinced the fairings on the Panagale shove alll the heat at the pilot. The SFV4 even in hot weather has never got too hot for me 🤷♂️ a lot more area exposed I suppose.
I too miss the suzuki team in motogp and it was such a pity that they pulled out as they were really starting to get somewhere in its development but, to my knowledge, they ran crossplane crank just like the Yamaha's. They weren't a screamer. Screamer engines haven't been in motogp since those cringy days of CRT bikes using production engines.
