any reason to not do steel path conjunction survival at this point? the enemy density there seems even higher, starts at lvl 200 basically, there's shielded and armored enemies so it's more of a balanced demonstration, and also how much nullifiers affect said warframe, Tav just seems too limited, just feels like the same enemy type with the odd eximus or heavy gunner in the crowd Or persto steel path since albrecht laboratory will be relevant content for a good while, if a warframe performs good there against the variety of enemies they'll perform good in netracells and deep archimedea too
Important to note, Valence formation does also buffs the damage of DoT's procced by his abilities, meaning besides making infusing heat on his 4 a huge damage increase to it, but also makes it the only way we can buff gas procs through an elemental buff.
DE should do a QoL on his passive so that if a status combo is made, then it stays for all ability use until another combo is selected, not have him static during ability casts, and lower his base cooldowns some.
My usual test is 5-10min SP Circulus. It's the hardest "normal" content, so anything that can do it can automatically do the rest of the game, and the Lua Thrax enemies do a good job distinguishing which builds are "just barely good enough" versus "can also handle tough eximus and other minibosses." I think that sticking with Tav might be good for now, since it allows people to go back through your older guides and compare performance. It keeps the same benchmark when comparing videos.
keyword being benchmark. I use Circulus for testing now as well, but redoing older videos just to get a better frame of reference seems like a huge pain in the ass.
It's the highest level normal content, not the hardest. Survival is generally a really easy game mode that benefits damage-dealing Warframes more than anything else. Game modes like Excavation or Interception, even if they're at a slightly lower level, are much more difficult to do well in. I think it being a sandbox is more what makes it appealing for testing, though it does put less damage-oriented frames at a disadvantage to test purely in survival. I agree that Circulus would be a better overall testing ground though.
Circulus has great diversity, and if a frame can go 30 minutes at ~100 kpm there, it's a good to *great* DPS frame. Thankfully most of the cast has builds that can do this
Lavos is fun, just needs a few QOL additions. Like making Swift Bite a passive, making Vial Rush wider, and adding more natural range to Catalyze. All in all he's a lot better than people say he is, though.
Lvl 200 took in conjunction survival is being recommended a lot and I totally agree. Content just isn’t hard until you start running into 3 nullifiers and thrax.
I main lavos and love his how his abilities Work. But his fourth needs to be 20 seconds instead of 30 and gives us a augment that gives cooldown everytime we use a ability
I generally use lavos as a caster frame and i havent had much trouble keeping him alive. Then again i generally use his other augment so i can bounce back and forth between his 1 and 3 to reset all their cooldowns. I think the biggest thing about playing him that way is making use of his 2 while mixing a bunch of different statuses. Its not as effective as a primer weapon, but it doubles as a movement tool. All that being said id still be ok with a buff. It can only help
His 2 is fantastic as a primer and his kit just doesn't work properly without it. That bro keeps subsuming it off speaks to how little he cares for lavos. That being said, lavos does take more effort to use than most frames but also can easily compete with the top tiers if you know how to use em.
I've been having a huge amount of fun using Lavos as a gun platform with this Augment. It gives him the start of a really cool playstyle. He just needs a little more oomph to push him into solid territory.
The thing I like about Valence Formation is that you can adapt the elements you are using on the fly. Running a lich and it's immune to corrosive? No problem, switch to heat. Need some CC? Switch to cold or radiation. Lots of flexibility and ability to adapt quickly.
I honestly think hed be a great early frame because he helps fight the early energy economy issues while having good survivability while making players start to think about status effects
I think it's just better using his abilities as "tools" and use your weapons for killing. Lavos has good HPs and armor and can easily be tanky enough for base SP. I've been playing him with the augments and the Praedos and his abilities were just here for the comfort.
I agree. I think a lot of his clunkiness comes from the fact that Lavos needs to stand still to cast 3 of his 4 abilities. If you think about most modern Warframes then they have been moving away from static casting in favor of cast-on-move.
@@Jenkkimie Also just holding the keys for his passive. If you want to use him as a caster the same way as Dante, you have to hold twice in order to get a combined element and then press the ability. Just for one. Meanwhile if you cast his abilities from time to time and mainly use your weapons then he actually feels nice to play. However I'm not sure that's how DE wanted him to be played.
@@Bampaloudu64 Yeah this is why I've opted to invert the press/hold. That being said I don't know how else they could've done that mechanic. It's just that the payout for it is not exactly there if you expect his abilities to function like most other Warframes do, rather than as tools as you so eloquently put.
A cool thing you can do with Cedo because of the Augment is use either Primary Frostbite or Primary Blight. Begin by imbuing Cold or Toxin onto your Cedo. It means the Arcanes pretty much guarantee to build stacks on hits from Cedo's alt fire. You will max your stacks out in seconds by just launching a few disks at enemies.
I feel like if Lavos’s 3 was changed so that it gives cooldown by killing enemies hit with it, and maybe given a little more cooldown, and probably even changed so it’s range is changed from a cone to a ring, then it would be *much* less punishing to use his 4, considering you can’t cool it down if everyone is dead. And if it worked on kill, then you could probably even throw several of them out and chain his 3 and his 4 one after the other
Cool they finally added the mod we've been heavily suggesting they add for 4 plus years now. How about we do the other things we've suggested like having his element combination persist upon using his abilities
this game is the oposite of destiny 2. Warframe is 11 years of complex systems built ontop of one another unhinged by the constraints of balancing for PVP. I love this game tho, Just made my first ZAW and are starting to embrace the more complicated systems of warframe. Havent killed my kuva yet but im working towards it. Lavos is rad-folks that play lavos are rad-life is rad
Destiny isn't just balanced because they have PvP (which largely has its own sandbox, effects and damage values are toned down for PvP). Destiny 2 has a goal of keeping the combat from becoming trivial, which it is in Warframe. Destiny 2 also has difficult content with the aim of challenging the players and rewarding communication like Raids and Dungeons. Destiny 2 is made to be challenging, Warframe is more of a casual, horde shooter experience.
@@arsarma1808this.... All of this. Destiny is also MUCH MORE about the guns balanced with abilities. Some Warframe don't even need guns to be great, you NEED guns to be strong in destiny
Its so good but its hard for me to survive as lavos since shield gating doesn't work, and his heal has a cooldown significant enough that he almost acts like a nidus or inaros where youll just get one shot eventually since you are always taking health damage. He can last a little longer with gloom over his first or third ability but then you lose access to viral and corrosive respectively.
Use blue shards, arcane reaper, grace, operator arcanes... I am sure there are other things. Maybe if you are killing too slow. I personally never had issues with survivability on lavos (base SP). Also maybe try stacking shield rechage like Fast deflection + Vigilante vigor if you really want to shieldgate for levelcap or whatever.
Primed redirection, Fast deflection, Vigilante vigor. If shit hits the fan Guardian and Manifold bond from the sentinel can help. Copium? Yes. Clutch? Yes. But works. Somehow ...
@@Darthmufin I think it depends on how good your weapons are. I take him to solo netracells and Lua all the time no problem but idk maybe I never got hit by the thrax. He is so easy to build I bet you could even run mods like fortitude on him if you are doing levelcap.
I ain't a Lavos player by any means, the only time I ever used him was for leveling up, but I feel like those changes would do great for him considering his current state. My only _legitimacy_ on this matter would be my ~5k hours. There is a TL;DR at the end. *AS* , *AR* , *AE* and *AD* stand for *Ability Strength* , *Range* , *Efficiency* and *Duration* . On a general note, Lavos should be able to move while casting any of his abilities and they should apply more status per cast ; each ability adds 3 stacks of its respective element and elemental imbuement. Also, someone suggested that his elemental imbuement should be kept until manually changed, instead of being used on ability cast. Now, for each ability. - *Ophidian Bite* 's base cooldown should be reduced to 4s (half of current) and have it reduce his others cooldowns by 0.5s for each enemy hit (AE). These changes would require a rework of its Swift Bite augment ; keep its bonus range while also increasing casting speed by 50% ("swift"). There could be another effect to add, like adding a random status or increasing already applied status stack by +1. - *Vial Rush* 's residues should at least last 50% to 100% longer (8s → 12s or 16s) and their radius should also be affected by AR. Enemies standing on a residue receive 30% status chance vulnerability (AS) that lasts 10s (AD) after leaving it. - *Transmutation Probe* should keep its cooldown reducing effect (still only once per enemy) and gain 2 new effects. Firstly make it so that the probe taunts enemies (see Wisp's 2) for its duration and secondly, each enemy hit have all of their elemental status effects current duration increased by 33% of their max. Eg: an enemy has 5 stacks of Corrosion (corrosive damage status effect) that have a remaining time of 5s, cast *TP* at 100% AD and it increases to ~8s (5s + 8s × 33% = 7.64s), at 200% it increases to ~10s and at 300% it increases to ~13s. This also applies once per enemy hit. Keep in mind that Lavos' AD also affects Status Duration. - My change for *Catalyze* may be a 50:50 case. I would suggest reducing its damage by half (still increased by the CO effect) but enemies hit now take 100% (AS) increased status damage for 10s (AD). I tried to only expand on his existing kit, there could be more synergies to be had, like his 1 adding a new "special" status effect that stacks with CO and does something "special" when affected by another ability, idk. *TL;DR* : 1 has a lower cooldown and also reduces others cooldowns. Augment changed to be "swift". 2's residues last longer, have a larger AOE and apply status chance vulnerability. 3 still reduces cooldowns, but now taunts and kinda refreshes status effect duration. 4 deals less damage but amplifies status effect damage.
Of note: His 4 has a built in Condition Overload effect. By not priming with the Cedo/Nukor/Epitaph before throwing it out, you are losing a LOT of damage. Also, the only elements to ever infuse for DPS with Catalyze is Heat or Gas, especially with how those elements interact with Valence Formation. I use him as a weapons platform though, personally. I don't like how long I have to wait when enemies aren't dense enough for his 3 (or augmented 1) to recover his cooldowns enough.
“Lavos’s underwhelming kit” Sorry but just no. He can heal, he can have added mobility, he can CC, and he can absolutely nuke rooms with his 4. Not to mention spreading status procs left and right. I don’t see how his kit is anywhere close to underwhelming.
A great buff for him would be that his 1 can be cast while moving. It is just basically an upper body animation and slight invul for his heal and ult. i dont see why he has to stand still. Also his cooldowns should be reduced to like ½ to ⅔ of its original values. I still would run him on most content tho.
@@jessierocket8227 oh i never noticed, whenever I do use his 1 for movement its to ground slam while using an archgun. Lavos makes archguns feel like an actual heavy weapon and I love it
Learning the Kuva Nukor is not meta anymore is insane! I used it a lot, I still use it a lot, and it's crazy to me! I still like that funny 10.5x Critical Multiplier, though! We don't talk about its replacement...
as much as i agree that lavos could use some touch ups (since not much is needed) i still think he is way better than he is made out to be here. 1. lavos' other abilities are still good outside of his 4, though in weird ways. vial rush with enough range can do a lot of damage since each vial is it's own damage instance and range increases the amount of them, so with exodia hunt or another grouping tool, you can do pretty good trash clearing with it. his 3 allows you to cast multiple vial rushes back to back, making it stack up even more. 2. i feel like his 4 is being downplayed, you aren't using it for the heat proc, you're using it for the exponential damage, and it's more effective to infuse the damage type the enemy is weak too as the procs from it gets put on AFTER the damage check, thus making it not matter. also archon continuity gives him a free damage boost to his 4 by giving an extra proc for free. this isn't too say that the heat infused variant is bad (it's good 80% of the time) but it can be optimised. 3. the thing that makes the augment good to me, is that it gives lavos something to do while waiting for his 4 cooldown and gives him away to use niche damage types in the situations where they're useful. like it can make gas and electricty a nuts damage type because he isn't bound too whatever weapon mods he's using. also the augment breaks the fuck out of shotguns which is funny. potential buffs that i would personally enjoy (not that it matters): make his 1 and 3 cast while moving. make his 4's cooldown slightly shorter. (kinda shaky on this one. maybe give his 1 damage scaling so he has a damaging ability while waiting for his 4 (maybe this is too busted idk) shorter base cast time on his 4. ability too store elements and swap them out (this is a common suggestion and i'm only worried that the implementation will make it harder to do status rotations for his 4 which is pretty relevant) his 1 cooldown could be a bit shorter so it's just a sustain tool. these buffs are taken from all over the place (including the comments here) and i think all of them are needed (i would personally just take cast while moving and 1 scaling and that would already make him really good). i don't know how to credit who came up with what, so i'm sorry about that. also typing an essay like this makes me look a bit crazy. i think the video is fine, i disagree a bit with the justifications behind the build and subsuming out vial rush (because it's my favorite ability in his kit), but i get where it's coming from because lavos is conceptually cool but clunky.
@@RapTapTap69 he is, but he got some VERY noticeable flaws that are just annoying to play around. like enemies instantly dying when they enter you belly because they had a status proc on them. or the fact that you needs enemies in your belly for nourish. unlike the helminth version
@@xDidddle 1: I've never ran into issues where I can't keep enemies in my stomach or where I'm struggling to have enemies for 2 or 4. You should always be casting 1 when an enemy expires or is used for 4 for the armor and feast is cheap AF and you have nourish buff. 2: The enemy HP cost means that your energy boosting ability is still online even when you have no energy which is when it really matters.
@@xDidddle I just wish Regurgitate left an armor stripping area instead of proccing on solely the projectile. Enemies get scarce later on when everyone's an Eximus immune to 1, and you do too much damage/kill too quickly for enemies to regularly stockpile in your belly.
I feel like this is a little harsh tbh. Lavos is perfectly solid. If you go into it expecting him to be able to Nuke the map, he's going to seem underwhelming. But if you don't mind slowing down a little to enjoy the game, he's perfectly fine
@@amaterasu3325 the end goal of the game should not be to play less of it. I'm not saying slog through everything, but they don't have to be the absolute fastest to be "good"
The point of playing the game is to have fun with it. Seems a lot of players care more about maximising KPM than finding different stuff that feels good even if it's not "optimal".
@@Alivair Then what do you rate as bad? For example, I enjoy playing qorvex, but im not delusional enough to say he's even remotely good when he requires much more effort to do half the work of other frames, slower than other frames, less survivable than other frames, etc. What's harsh about labeling characters in tiers? There would be no point in tier lists if you looked at it and every frame was A or B tier.
I tried to make Lavos work for such a long time..... The biggest issue I continue to have is the button presses to make full use of his abilities.... If elements would stay infused until I want to infuse a different one I'd be happy. He still wouldn't be good in a lot of ways, but I'd be happy... As it is Citrine exists with her status crystal of doom. So I just play Citrine xD
I tried too i got 9% playtime on Lavos, my issues with Lavos : - His 4 has 0 vertical range just goes straight, if anyone is 1cm above it doesnt hit - His 4 as said in video is just ONE heat proc lol - 1 is boring, 3 is not very effective nobody needs uni orbs or archungun ammo - His 2 though clunky as is i think is nice mobility, i wish it would handle better though - Hes ugly and has 0 skins that matter - Has low dmg, i need to prime entire rooms to press 4 while other frames nuke in 1 second
i got max armor shards and grace over blessing i rarly ever die still use x1 green tau and 1 cast speed with changes coming to corrosive in june maybe +4 corro wont be needed. even at its current stat i dont struggle anywhere with my lavos.
So could you build an Influence melee for pure Toxin and then Valence Formation on Electric for pure Corrosive damage with 100% Electric status? Throw on two green shards and Nourish and that seems pretty great.
Same for building a weapon for pure Electric then Valencing on Toxin for Corrosive's status and damage spread, with Toxin status when they're stripped or against shields.
I just build him for lots of survivability with umbral mods and adaptation. Some strength to heal with 1 and just use either cedo or some other weapons. I replace his 2 with elemental ward for that armor increase.
Caliban needs a better passive, a new 1st ability, a buff to his minions and _maybe_ better energy economy (i.e. make his 3rd cheaper). That's really all; he has good survivability (mod for shield gate + adaptation and keep his 3 up) and his 2 and 4 let you melt enemies with almost any weapon.
@@noahedenborg4221"when you don't have to mod for it" slowing entire groups of strong enemies increases your chances of survibility. Lavos vial rush can simply slow anyone in his path and has 4 sec cooldown, use it again and enemies will take 3 business days to aim. Also it works well with demo units and accolytes.
The augment is awesome, but I would highly recommend full umbra set with adaptation, rolling guard, 2 green shards and pillage on his 2. This is how I do lvl cap with Lavos
Actually, i would take any warframe with energy nexus, dreamers bond, and nourish, over lavos as a rj pilot... and for some weird reason, many of my frames now have a build involving all 3 of those things, no idea how that could have happened, weird isnt it? c:
I mean If you forget about what his abilites do and just think of him as a weapons platorm he is one of the strongest frames in the game. Man, heavy slam builds specifically are insane with lavos rn, like a tier below Saryn level. Im convinced Roar Lavos + well build Magistar or Sampotes will beat any other weapon/buffs combination in the game at any levels up to lvl1000. I mean its just straight up 20-40 meter nuke with no downside, no downtime, no combo buildup, just RAW damage.
An Energized Munitions AOE spam weapons platform build with Gauss easily beats out both this setup and Saryn in terms of raw kill speed while conveniently being effectively invincible again everything that isn't a nullifier or toxin proc and scaling all the way to level cap. It turns out being able to dash around a map like a maniac while deleting rooms full of enemies with homing rockets from 100m away is pretty hard for anything else to beat.
@@GameMiestro It MAY beat Lavos but not saryn, nothing beats saryn. Saryn kills enemies as fast as they spawn and GAuss needs to be aware of enemies before he gets to kill them. Gauss invincibility does not scale into levelcap. Aventually at high enough levels your redline will go from 100 to 0 from 1 shot and then your like any other frame. And for any non levelcap mission Lavos is tanky enough. So in my eyes they are basically the same exept gauss is more obnoxious. Lavos isitnt that slow, you still get dispach overdrive and incarnon perks. Lavos hits harder, has up to 14x the radius on its AOES and does not rely on slash, Gauss shoots much faster and has ranged attacks. They seem close to eachother in KPM exept Lavos is feels more comortable to me. but thats just me.
I really love that all the frames and weapons I like using most are the ones that no one likes. Never have to worry about nerfs and get huge riven stats
yes but unlike other frames he rrequires set up and he has to hit enemys to do it again ehile other frames like kullervo or nezha is jsut 2 buttons bassicly
I use it, albeit with a different setup and it works great. The cold proc can provide a small amount of cc and heat sunder is a great "get off of me "tool
To say im a Lavos enjoyer is putting it mildly. You only need one Tauforged green shard, to raise your armor strip to 98%. TRUST ME IT IS BETTER. Lavos can always use the correct damage type. And now so can his weapons. Use the extra shard slot to get +15% to corroded targets. Refer to the importance of using the correct damage types, it does more than you think
Go to the "Damage" page on warframe wiki and see the Armored Enemies section. You REALLY dont need Augur Reach. Archon Continuity, infuse Toxin, Vial rush. Any enemy that touches the pools takes damage, slows down, gets armor stripped, get primed, AND are grouped up when you head back that way. I run mecha mods instead of Eclipse, it helps prime, gives me a LOT of armor, and I get to keep Vial Rush. Between Vial rish and Mecha set priming is coming from mods and I can use any weapon I want. Enjoy
If his elemental mix remained until you changed it, that would go a long way towards making him fun. I like proccing gas because it's fun. So if I could bring a weapon that stripped armor and then just be proccing gas, that sounds fun. But to mix that every few seconds? Ugh. Just not worth it.
PSA: you don’t have to like EVERY frame in the game. If you don’t like all Lavos’ button presses, then play one of the other 55(!) frames in the game. I absolutely do not want him reworked. I would take slight buffs but I really don’t think he needs it.
yea every time i want to go back and play this game i am reminded, yea this game does not know how to balance itself, and everything is worthless as soon as the new thing comes out, or not because the new thing releases with no power at all. Lastly their idea of an endgame now, is just make the game more frustrating and annoying to play, by taking away all the tools they have given us so far, which further exacerbates the balance problem by shining a light on what is useful, and what is not. (deep arcamedia weights warframes and weapons so that some show up more than others because some are obviously more powerful than others, and you cant have nice things in warframe.)
In all seriousness I really hope he gets a rework soon I love his theme but his cooldowns feel so awkward when there arent enough enemies to tag with his stuff to lower them
Pillage on his 4 is a nice build Pillage on 4. Edit CorrosiveProjection..TransientFortitude..PrimedRedirection..Overextended..PrimedContinuity..BlindRage..PrecisionIntensify..ValenceFormation..NarrowMinded......ArcaneGrace..ArcaneAegis +3 TauforgedCrimson Shards with Ability Strength Pillage has 10sec Cooldown
