For anyone wondeing, this looks like "slow motion" that's actually stroboscopic effect. With light flashing 0.25Hz slower than this spring is moving, you get effect like that.
@@russellsullivan8947 Yes it does. It’s like watching a helicopter rotor seeming to be stopped. It’s all about camera scanning rate being not quite evenly divisible into the 4250 frequency of the valve assembly, which runs at half the crank rpm
@@russellsullivan8947 It does, actually. The valve opens once per engine cycle, and if you had the strobe only light up once per cycle, you would see the exact same point in time for that given engine cycle through one revolution. If you make the strobe go slightly slower/faster, then the strobe will slowly 'scan' through different points of time during the cycle. The spring spinning is just a thing that the spring is doing.
F1 engines are essentially rebuilt after 2 or 3 races. Dragsters are rebuilt in-between races. Most motorsports replace engine parts or fully rebuild the engine after a couple of races, too. If everyone on the street was constantly redlining it all the time, we'd be changing valve springs with every oil change, too.
@@darkySp You can't really compare a shit box to an F1 car or top fuel dragster. F1 cars idle at 5,000rpm, that's not far off what your average shit box grocery getter red lines at... I've driven the shit out of my cars both on track and off for years on end and have never had to replace valve springs....
@@81937mm it actually isn't slowed down, it's like watching a helicopter rotor that seems to be stopped in camera edit: and if it actually was, it would be 7 revolutions, and if you have 8500rpm then you have 140 revolutions per second, so 7 revolutions of that would be around 1/20 of a second, or 0.05 seconds
@@svetko05 This will give up my age but the 90s Kawasaki ZXR 250 R Sport and the 92 Honda NR750 Gran Prix used to reach these speeds. Also, dont fall for the desmodronic thing. That is more propaganda than actually needed.
@@GoldSrc_ But he's an engineer. I wonder what the curve would look like, plotting the percentage of comments made indicating that one's an engineer vs. the length of time since they'd acquired their degree. As some person, of no particular importance, I also find interest in the elucidatation of mechanics provided by slow motion and stroboscopic effects.
@@GT-43 it is slow motion, the title clearly says 8500 rpm. That's revolutions per minute, that valve spring in 32 seconds would have cycled around 2100 times.
This is why it's so important to keep the lifter, push rod, rocker arm, and valve assembly together and not mix up when tearing down and engine: everything wears on its own movement.
@@killer1963daddy theres a rotator on the bottom of the spring that allows the spring to rotate the valve so that hot sopts don't caues the valve to overheat and crack from being in one spot
Actually it’s the whole valve that rotates. Some engines have special valve spring caps that have a bearing in them to allow the valve to rotate without moving the spring. You typically won’t find them in high performance applications because of the extra weight. But you will find them in some stock engines.
@@tennicktenstyl not sure exactly what your asking, but I’ll try to answer anyway. If your talking about valve caps that have bearings in them, they are primarily for exhaust valves, they rotate to eliminate hot spots and burning on the valve edge. So yes in a way it evens out valve wear. As for the valve and spring spinning in the vid, that’s actually not a good thing. That rotation is due to the rpm, and not enough spring pressure. The spring should not rotate, it will destroy the spring seat, and eventually will either grind a hole into the intake/exhaust port, or the spring will loosen up and drop a valve. Which is bad news. Hope this helps
@@taraobrien171 I gotta be honest I have no idea what your trying to say. The only thing I could understand is that you think a rocker arm is a support for the valve. That is 100% wrong. Depending on the engine, some rocker arms are gapped to make sure when the valve is closed that the rocker arm doesn’t touch the valve. On most it simply lays on top of the valve, when the valve is closed. Not sure who gave you that info but they are dead wrong
It's just a test of the valve spring, not a running engine. They are spinning the camshaft and possibly the crankshaft too with an electric motor. This isn't new, it how they used to spin balance engines as far back as the 1940's and '50's before they had actual fixtures to put the crankshaft in without having to install it in the block. There are a couple of RU-vid vintage videos showing this. You should check them out.
I think the spring motion we see is actually combined from thousands of up-down motions. A frame is taken from each motion, and the timing of the strobe light is such that it will flash when the spring is positioned where it needs to be, so that the sum of all shots appears fluent. This is because with electricity, which is at the speed of light, we have such great control over when the light flashes - no moving parts. Whereas there is no camera which can move its physical shutter as fast as this valve. Тhe camera shutter stays open for much longer, but it is completely dark except for that tiny fraction of a second when the strobe light fires, so that's the only image that gets printed on the camera sensor.
this is called stroboscopic effect: Definition: In movement perception: Stroboscopic effect. When a rotating electric fan is illuminated by a flashing light source (called a stroboscope) so that a flash arrives whenever a fan blade passes a fixed position, the blades will seem to stand still.
this rotation is not exactly the reality (in the time domain) : with the strobe we have the impressions it occurs over one cycle, in reality it occurs over 16K cycles or a little more.
Hairpin valve springs were featured on some motorcycle engines, popular in the '50s and into the '60s. They required more space but, from what I remember, didn't have the dynamic vibration as do coils.
Lol that's awesome! The inertial loads moving that spring are wild. You can see the spring stabilizing under compression but it's still moving, then it restarts as the spring extends. Anyone notice the lift on that thing? Almost no space between the coils, at least that's how it looks. Very cool to watch!
Amazing how somthing so relatively strong and stiff wobbles like Jello!!! Never expected the center portion to be bouncing back and forth between the seat and retainer. Crazy what slo-mo can show you!!!
The jelly affect could actually also be the strobing speed and camera speed slightly out of sync which could make it look this wobbly when it might not wobble much at all during operation. but it could also be true the wobble exist anyway but I am pretty sure it won’t be this much anyway. I made a similar video but on a subwoofer and it bends and leans all over the place making it look like a flappy piece of rubber on the recording but that cone is stiff for real so the video is likely messing with us so to speak no matter how cool it actually looks
@@FelonyVideos I didn’t say it does not wobble though, but that it likely is a visual affect adding to that. If the slowmo guys had their high speed cameras it would very likely look different when you can actually capture the whole action and not only the strobe and camera matching frames which makes the recording skew. But I would like to see that in case I am wrong if possible
@@Pulverrostmannen I understand what you are saying, and you could be right, the valve oscillation could be multiples of time faster. But it would just be the same video but the valve spring vibrates faster. What I am saying is, it looks about right. Like there doesn't seem to be aliasing.
Ducati doesn’t have to worry about that. The Desmodromic valves use the cam to both open and close eliminating valve spring problems and freeing up the horsepower needed to turn the valve train for the rear wheel.
I was literally coming to the comment section to bring up the other springs are not moving so it’s broke or a scam lol, this is cool thanks for sharing!
Cam-lobes, springs, timing belts and chains will be a thing of the past in years to come with new continuously variable electronic valve timing just coming out now. We can expect to see more compact engines producing significantly more power with less fuel.
Free Valve technology is what you're referring to. Electronically and independently operated valves. No camshaft or timing chain/belt. This will be the final form of the ICE.
If the harmonic gets bad enough for cyclic coil binding, that's exactly what breaks valve springs. The cycling from the normal movement from the cam shaft will never exceed the elastic limit of the spring, and springs can last the life of the engine, unless resonance causes repetitive impact between the coils. This is an awesome video, and clearly shows the phenomenon.
ordinarily what you said true,but when manufacturers build in obsolenscence into their engines like what happening today,it will break and ruin an engine,so the owner has to use the advice of someone who has torn apart over 6000 engines ,me,i'm an old senior ase master tech of 47 years, the timing components and the valve springs of a car is the weak links in any vehicle,i change the valve springs and timing chains or belts at the 125,000 mile mark,regardless of how good they look,i toss them and put new ones in service,seen to many engines go out WITH THAT'LL BE ALRIGHT,NO it won't,these components are the extend parts of an engine,i'm talking only of normal service vehicles,in town or hiway mileage,racing is another topic,and a stupid one,if you don't do this,you will experience a variety of problems and none of them are good,i've two vehicles with over 400000 miles on each,many oil changes and starters and altenators,oil changes are the life blood of a car or any machine
@@strattuner I agree 100%. especially, keeping the oil clean and maintaining the timing chain/belts. If you own a Honda or a Volkswagen, CHANGE THE TIMING BELT!!! There is so little clearance between the piston heads and valve faces, that you only need to skip a couple of teeth on the timing belt, for the camshaft to be far enough out of phase, for a valve to contact a piston. These engines use overhead cams, so there are no pushrods to bend. As such, you pretty much destroy the cylinder head, and could even seriously damage the pistons. (I speak from experience, volkswagon diesel)
I've spent time on the spintron, evaluating valvetrain kinematics. This is about as good as it gets for a heavy OHV arrangement @ 8500rpm. The valvespring is maintaining control of the valve quite well.
@@DrDeuteron coil bind is when the spring is compressed to the point where the coils collide with each other and effectively become solid until they open back up. Usually they cause significant damage to things when this happens. The spring oscillates with the sudden stops and starts and can have a frequency where the engine speed and spring amplify each other and can cause the spring to bounce and damage the components it's connected to by smashing into things on both ends like a hammer
They are it's just that the light isn't timed with them so it appears like they aren't moving. It's the same thing as you watch a helicopter or prop plane, the blades sometimes seem to not be moving. It's just the timing that's all
the engine rotated 14 times at 8500rpm - 141rps (second) that makes this video 9.93% of a second, you just watched a 0.09 second video..... Might have been a Dodge (Ik you only saw it move 7 times but remember that in a 4 stroke a valve moves once for every 2 rotations)
Direct acting double overhead camshafts help at those rpm. Cosworth tuning likened ohv to lying on your back and trying to play piano with your feet. Yet my Honda CX500 was ohv and it was one of my favourite motorcycles, I loved its old fashioned engine. It needed to be ohv as the cylinder heads are twisted 22 degrees and ohc would have been very complicated.
Highlighting the importance of good quality components and regularly changed lubricants if you want reliability-one of a thousand moving parts, which is why modern internal combustion engines are engineering masterpieces.
Most of the commenters missed this entirely. what is crucial here is the oscillation of the inside and outside springs. 8500 is up there for that kind of setup.
That noise is the actual engine valvetrain at speed on a Spintron valvetrain dynamometer. I took some similar video footage where you offset the strobe frequency vs. RPM / 2 and you can dial in the effect. This was on a prostock racing head, it was crazy two of us smaller guys on a cheater bar to change out the springs in the head without dying.
