Vampire The Requiem vs. Vampire The Masquerade | The Debate is Settled 

Love that people are revisiting this video, yall have gone a long way! Also shows people are quite hungry for content on this game.

Being able to recognize fellow vampires on sight was a good idea, but making it provoke a Frenzy check every time you meet a new vampire was troublesome. Imagine you're attending the Prince's Elysium one night and this happens: "Welcome to tonight's events kin-YOU'RE NEW! RAAAARGH!"

Agree and werewolf forsaken 2nd is the same a total crusher on apocalypse

Yup. I have VtR 2nd Ed and it is very sad that VtM players care so little about mechanics, because VtR 2nd has show us how amazing VtM could have been!

Loved both. Same boat as forever storyteller.

I agree that Requiem is the better game, especially with the crap that is going on in V5 now. Which is why I'm disappointed that they seem to have abandoned Chronicles in order to focus more on reviving World 20 friggin years after it reached its narrative conclusion.

Glad to see someone comparing and contrasting VtM and VtR. Long shot but, any opinion on V5?

Mechanically speaking, its mostly an overall improvement especially factoring in player and GM creative freedom and crossplay compatability with other gamelines, even more so after 2nd edition. 5th edition took notes from these editions of the game lines which is why it runs quite smoothly mechanically. Lore wise your mileage may vary, I personally love deep lore and will happily change things as a GM as needed, but others find the insanely deep lore potentially restrictive. What my table does if we feel like we need more lore, we just steal from old world for more flavor without having to do more work ourselves.

This video pretty much matches my own views. I very much agree with the improvement on predator's taint, it sometimes felt that an elder walking into a room used to induce mass hysteria in Requiem 1E. Also I rather that lower humanity is not about becoming an immoral monster, but about becoming an amoral animal. As you said losing touch with being human rather than being "evil". A huge improvement in this edition is the merits and the covenants. The covenants fell more alive, dynamic and at each other's throats in this edition and the merits really back up your membership of the covenant at the mechanical level (the merits also allow much stronger character diversification in general). Anyway, you pretty much echo exactly what I thought reading Blood and Smoke/Requiem 2E.

personally i really like having many different clan's though i hear even with requiem you can still do it via the splatbooks if you feel the need even with the new edition so yea nothing wrong with it. i admit requiem does do personal horror better.

Both had their merits, but the way I've always felt about it is this. Old WOrld had better theater, better themes, more customization, just was a cooler setting. New WOrld/Chronicles was much much much much much (a million more muches) mechanically smoother but was much more introspective. Honestly, always loved Chronicles/New World more, but the old world had its benefits and I enjoy playing some of the games like Werewolf and Wraith in old world, but largely New World I think is just better to play.

"Ambiguity is great", again, 100% disagree. Ambiguity means lack of identity. You don't want too much ambiguity.

Sorry I'm 9 years late to coment, lol. Is this Chronicles of Darkness setting still a thing? I liked the Forsaken book a lot, although I've never played. It seems currently that they just care for the "old" World of Darkness.

No beard; no trust

I'd enjoy another video comparing all the options of playing Vampire. There's a lot to choose from, and they all put a different skew on it. v20, V5, Requiem (1st vs 2nd?), am I missing any?

I keep finding old world people just done like new world because they don't want to read the new books or they fear having to build everything them self

The Blade Runner game has a Touchstone kind of thing if I recall. Something you start with during your chargen.

Adding miniatures to the game is a great idea regardless. I was opposed for idea of them, even argued a little with Sandy Peteresen about them on one of conventions in Poland. But years after I must confess that he was right. I just don't use them as much (but bought handful of multicolored game pawns cheap dirt from China) for two reasons. First, I simply don't have place to store them in my european medium sized apartment. Second, I got crippling addiction of buying RPGs, guns and ammo, and I'm afraid that wife would kick me out if miniature collecting would crawl back in from the past. Got cool noise marine custom mini made for Black Crusade campagin though. Only problem with Requiem minis would be that, good looking quality minis for modern settings are really hard to come by, even with 3d printer. One day I will get some cool set of Traveller ships. It would be massive help during sessions of that game.

I'm sold, i will get this game tomorrow, i just picked up a used copy of masquerade today for nostalgic purposes and thumbing through it i had to admit to myself that I will likely never play it. I didn't even realize they had a second edition to Requiem, now all I have to do is find someone to play it, just like high school all over.

I use requeim when story telling but use the hunger system from v5, the chronicle tennants from v5. And allow characters to pick up v5 abilities as devotions. So far the simplification of the clans and the thematic separation of fear and love and giving fear to nosferatu is a big deal.

Good video; I've had VtM on PDF for while with no chance to play it. Now I think I will.

I'm guessing that 2nd edition had much better rules than 1st edition. As for myself, I only played 1st Ed. Vampire, and after about 3 years of playing in that setting my entire group suddenly got so very sick of all the doom and gloom of the setting, and switched to Champions (super-hero rpg), where we could just dress in bright colors and beat the crap out of the villains without causing any real damage ^_^

I will have to check out Blood and Smoke. Thanks for the reasons why I should do that.

Is that a stripper pole in the background ?

It's been a long 8 years for our friend at BLG.

Where are people getting the hardcover editions of this book? I can't find it anywhere

Didn't you become ripped of your flesh when you reach zero humanity and the only thing remaining is a monster in shape of an owl shaped cloud of smoke?

Would you ever think about running a game of blood and smoke and recording it on Google+?

Question: What's better, Requiem or Masquerade? Answer: Within the Ring of Fire, play as the Knights of Death's Blood. Heh, for me this is an insanely hard choice too. I can see you've wrestled with this for a while. Now as much time has passed between the release of both, I'd say a Requiem chronicle with heavy Masquerade influence is what I'd do. It's the more open and sandbox setting I prefer for Requiem too.

Apples are better than oranges XD Yepp, I feel the same way you do

Some good points in there. Having played both Revised and Blood&Smoke, I have to say B&S handles the Beast in a very interesting, perhaps even better way. Humanity, Banes, that's all done really well. Don't know why they took the fog of eternity out, that was one of the better ideas of Requiem(I hope I didn't just miss it). Where the NWod goes wrong, I think, is in the need to make everything mechanical. I get it that it's supposed to encourage roleplay, but what it does for me is bog down the game with unnecesary niggles that are more annoying than immersive. In this aspect, the game is perhaps better suited for newer players, but for experienced WoD enthusiasts, I think Masquerade still holds up more. Also, needless messing with attributes: don't fix what isn't broken! Appearance is a great stat. Combat is stickier too, I've felt this with the new Hunter also. I was actually introduced to Requiem before Masquerade, so there really was no bias, but it didn't click for me as much as masquerade did. B&S has definitely improved upon Requiem though, no doubt. As for the subplots, they have different feels to them, so comparing the two seems a tad trivial.

Also the social combat, the beat down, chases…. All good stuff

You look a little like a young Herrick from Being Human (UK). Herrick: Evil With A Smile - Being Human Series 1 Behind the Scenes It was extra cool to see Blood and Smoke being endorsed by a young Herrick. :)

One way to deal with the hate the nWoD Vampires got would just be to change the Names. When people hear Nosferatu they think about the cWoD Clan not the new one... and they compare... and People DO not like Changes.... well most do. I think they underestimated the nostalgic factor. If the clans would just have other names and the Powers just had new names... there would be less hate about the game i think. It would be easyer to accept that this is a complete new game.

I cannot personally support this view point. I hear people bitch often how "hard" it was dealing with VtM's "end of day's" meta-plot. Why? Who the hell forced anyone to run it? It was a useful tool as far as potentially dictating certain character paths be it pc or npc. However it wasn't a mandate. They couldn't have made it any more clear in the front of the books. White Wolf's biggest problem was "mixing" other games. I feel as if most people who go on about Requiem never actually read more than the core book.

OMG, You look so young. And you are correct.

Hum...maybe I'll check it out. I do a lot of solo play. It shouldn't be to hard to convert

Omg this is when Ginger Fraiser had hair

i saw this and thought, 9 years ago, a video from the late 2000s for sure. But no, it was 2015. fuck.

So is this Blood & Smoke a.. supplement, or a core book? I've actually just watched this video twice, back to back, and I'm still somewhat confused on what you're talking about.

The Strix are often used as patsy’s in my game

Welp, I am buying Blood and Smoke and the Cards, if I can find them

18:00 I'm shocked to hear such a statement from someone who takes an interest in WoD / CofD. I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly, though I had thought I was completely alone in that regard. I'm accustomed to being surrounded by devout leftists in the traditional gaming community, but far leftists are omnipresent within WoD circles.

I was wondering, I should buy Blood and Smoke or just 2nd Core Rulebook for VtR? I have 1st edition. Unfortunately reading pdf isn't for me ;/

If only Requiem's lore wasn't some asenine. And it's just beyond immersion breaking for me to get a chart of creatures I have to drink from because blood potency is just a cool parlor trick every kid can increase. But uh oh now yer on a Werewolf diet sport hahaha! No. He's the best Vampire game - the Original good ones.

Not anymore. Now you have the God Machine.

I like both for different reasons. :)

I know that feel. *forever GM*

Totally agree

"Every additional supplement for the old world of darkness assumed that you had digested and incorporated meta-plot advancements from previous releases." This is false. Every supplement for VtM reminded you about The Golden Rule. Narrator had full right to disallow any mechanical/story change or additions. The fact that many people did accept it was only because they allowed themselves to be slaves of Rules As Written and Metaplot As Written. White Wolf only followed what was selling at the days. First - 90% of changes in Blood & Smoke are nothing, NOTHING more than returning to the feel of and solutions from Vampire The Masquerade 1st and 2nd editions (core books only). Look closer - Nature & Demeanor, clanless vampires, Cacophony and slightly easier communications ov vampires around the world, ancients bloodsucking monsters, personal focus over globespanning wars etc. They're just taking Masquerade elements and changing them a little. I expected new things, all I've got is what I already have in my Masquerade cores. More local, social and intimate problems B&S supposedly focuses on are also base idea in VtM 1st and 2nd - all i have to do is ignore many supplements (which i do ignore very often) and B&S isn't any novum with microscopic concentration on one town and one vampire community. It was the end of the 2nd AND whole Revised edition that escalated things into global conspiraces and metaplot. Thank you, Justin Achilli! >:( Now, about B&S alone. I don't like it. And i jumped to the Requiem the night I purchased 1st ed corebook (and we use it even now as our primary Vampire book, rules and setting). After looking on B&S i cannot feel anything else than pure aversion and repugnance. First the Strix - I don't feel it at all, they're out of the book for me, totally unrelated and nonimportant as vampire nemesis. It seems we have similar thoughts about that topic. It just aren't catching me. I disliked them in Requiem for Rome and when I learned they will be incorporated in B&S i was massively dissapointed. De gustibus, it seems. Clans? Five clans, thirteen clans, gazillion clans - who cares? In the end Requiem was so flooded with different bloodlines (each more strange than the others), that primary clans just diluted themselves in them. Absolutely no difference by now, if you ask me. You say new clan flaws are so cool? I don't think so. Daeva are completely broken. Not mechanic-wise, but story-wise. In 1st Requiem I had Succubi struggling with their Vices, that means at least seven possibilities. Now each of my Serpents will be always social slaves of their own lustful nature. I'm fine with that, but in Requiem i had six more Vices to indulge in with my Daeva. The newest views of B&S developers aren't in my tastes. Rest of them... well, they are indeed not so bad, but clan Daeva was IMO greatly cut in coolnes. XP computations? Well, we're all mature people - I really don't see any problem in current/new rating x 4/5/whateva. They are not integrals, derivatives or differentials. This is simple multiplication, so new system of buying traits didn't buy me. Don't fix something that isn't broken. Awarding XP is another matter of taste - B&S way of doing it is FAR too little to judge this game as better and above Masquerade. You forgot to give XP from previous session? "Fuck, sorry guys. Can we do it after today? I really had nightmarish week." Humanity? Damn, you did have lower Humanity shown as detachment from... well, Humanity. Your social dice pools were capped by your Humanity rating, remember? Again - nihil novi sub sole in B&S. One interesting thing new Humanity introduces is shift from "how evil, monstrous and cruel I am" to "how cold inside, alien and far from understanding simple human I am". But it's just colour, not substance. Touchstones and mechanics? Again - big dislike, but allow me to explain this bullshit. We really play Vampire (each edition) as really simple game. Attribute + Skill or Attribute + Skill + Discipline (compare the results with NPC blah, blah, blah) and that's just it. We never bogged ourselves with more rules, because we never needed them at all. With B&S introducing many new rules, rulings and mechanics I feel... well, detached. What for is it? Is it necessary? Required? And I must honestly answer myself - no, it is not necessary, it is not nedeed, it doesn't deliver any valuable experience to the game. It doesn't improve situation at the table. All it is doing is distracting attention from the game itself, from the story and events in fiction to cards, Touchstones and other worthless bullshit. We aren't players that need such things to have fun. For you and your group all of these things meet the task, but not for us - they just don't work that way. Touchstones aren't that bad TBH. But we don't need them to have any mechanical rulebase (as majority of B&S things, merits, conditions and all that crap), especially we don't need them to be so much important as in B&S. Why buy B&S when you know you'll never use majority of useless mechanics in it? The last thing and nail in the coffin are Disciplines. Yes, the are good, they are finely designed. But what the fuck are those doing in this book? Sorry - they're totally unrelated with the game itself!!! At all! Social focus, microcosm, concentration on social problems of single vampire with his ex-girlfriend and in the next chapter I have powers that make Masquerade vampires silly and almost frienldy. Naaaaaaaah, this shit doesn't fit the mood of Blood & Smoke. If I remember right, at the beginning we have listed inspirations. Night Junkies? Only Lovers Left Alive? Sorry, inspirations are very good in showing your feeling of this game, but it all falls apart when I started to read Disciplines. It's a disaster and no Disciplines at all would serve B&S far more than those depicted in this game. At the end, three things in Blood & Smoke did indeed enriched me: 1. I accepted slightly different interpretation of Humanity. 2. I took new Disciplines as default into my Vampire games. 3. After reading Blood & Smoke - as a big, faithful and undisputed fan of Vampire the Requiem 1st edition - I wholeheartedly returned to Vampire the Masquerade as my main Vampire game and bought V20 PoD on DriveThru (after extraction of my old VtM 2nd edition corebook). It seems that reading this book aroused in me completely opposite thoughts and feelings to your own conclusions. Damn! After reading this book I will probably return to Masquerade! This game acted on me completely contrary to the intentions of Russell Bailey. And, in this comical paradox, I also need to say - thank you, Russell. Thank you too for your time, t3hsauce RPG. I'm glad to see you've found your perfect Vampire game. Cheers! =D

Dude you look like the fuckin Ventrue Leader from the Masquerade game lol

Facts

Blood & Smoke is just jamming a ton of Vampire the Masquerade mechanics into Requiem. So, the only way Requiem can be good, is if it's exactly like Vampire the Masquerade. Nice try, though.

lol.. no

Vampire the Masquerade by a huge amount. The early editions conveyed a passion for role-playing that changed the hobby. Nwod is nearly as bad a Pathfinder a corporate shill written to steal your loot.

The xp-system sucks, as your quieter friends are punished by it! Over time the charckters diverge wider and wider in power level. Making it harder to come up with stories suited for all of them.

Hey how goes it? I started a Facebook group for people to share White Wolf RPG game play and subject matter content and I think it would be awesome if you could stop by and share your material!facebook.com/groups/862703457198327/

I think he is trying too hard to dislike Masquerade, like "i NEEEEEED a reason to leave masquerade behind, so i MUST like this very much!" If you stop to think about it, the only thing Requiem has for it is the absence of Metaplot. Thats it. Everything else is very similar to Masquerade. Oh and the rules are indeed more organized, but at the same time, more complicated. Good luck tracking conditions if you didn't order the cards, and bookeeping all the situations that you gain beats. Too much work, the old system was flawed, but was more intuitive. They are just different products. And, honestly, Requiem is being SMASHED by Masquerade by a large margin in sales.... not saying this is the reason that one is better than the other, but you are in the minority group.

I disagreed, but you lost me at communists evil by default