Van's Aircraft Engineering Summary Presentation - Laser Cut Parts Acceptability and Testing 

They could tell me where my engine deposit went. That would be nice.

@@Pilotpailie I feel bad for all the builders effected. I am no expert. Have all my Van kits long ago and pre laser cut.... I hope you get your engine or deposit back... I think it will work out, but will take time, a year or two is my wild guess.

@@gmcjetpilot Here’s to hope 🥂. If the deposit funding was truly mixed into general revenue, could be an issue.

@@Pilotpailie I agree. No expert in Chapter 11 Re-Organization but I take it you are an unsecured creditor with everyone else.. The courts will dictate how to pay you off and everyone. The questions is when, how, how much. For people with kit deposits they will get the credit and the kit. The bad news is cost went up from what they expected to pay. Refunds? Don't know. . So in a word you and everyone is mixed together, along with vendors. As far as engine deposit, I imagine it will be homered but engine cost may go up? Refund? Sure why not. When? Who knows at this point. Who is prioritized in settling is or will be public at that court website. I don't think they are that far. Right now they are trying as Richard said, to keep operations going so they have a business to save....They need to pay the light bill, payroll and parts, from vendors so that is where money is going. Chap 11 just allows a business to hold off paying debts in the short term. They will settle with people such as yourself, with engine deposits, by filling engine orders/ I can sympathize that is not a pleasant place to be. Full Refund? That is a reasonable expectation if you opt for that, but will be down the priority list... meaning longer wait..... The question is WHEN? They will pay vendors first so they have parts, kits to sell and make revenue. Refunds will be last. If you still want engine and willing to pay increased shipping or any Lycoming price increase you will likely get there sooner. Again I am guessing. Van's will not and can not talk to you, since the courts are controlling all this. I don't think it will be soon for anyone, but a year or two is my guess.... Ethically I think Van intends to make it right while saving the business. The saving business is key and patience by builders.. I wish you luck with a good and swift resolution to your satisfaction. Right now it sucks I know....

@@gmcjetpilot well said. Thank you!

I suspect quality control. if the vendors keep screwing it up, then best to stop using the method to avoid the quality control issues resulting from vendors deviating and not telling anyone. Van's issues resulted from vendors doing improper work. Using a corrosive coating, and not cutting holes using the correct specified method. We'd had similar issues where I work, and so we change designs to prevent vendors from screwing it up again. These mistakes cost companies money, as they have to be addressed/fixed. Avoiding such mistakes from happening again prevents future loss of money.

@SoloRenegade In that case, there is a glaring hole in Van's quality too. Where I work, every batch from a supplier has a couple of items taken from it and tested for dimension, quality and finish BEFORE that batch ever sees production or parts shipping. Quality is a continuous process throughout product manufacturing, not just something you push onto your supplier and 'hope' they deliver what you asked them to ... because give a supplier any opportunity and they WILL change/adapt their process to make it cheaper and quicker for them!

@@simonbaxter8001 yes, but Asian vendors have a nasty habit of swapping out materials Afterwards without telling anyone. You can do all the pre-production inspections you want, and someone will still try to change to something cheaper on you Later, despite you explicitly defining what they were required to use.

In fact theres no other answer that would keep the company afloat so the stuff theyre saying has a conflict of interest. I do not beleive anyone who says manufactiring cracks have no effect on service life. Look up crack length vs cycles. Theyve just removed the long long cycle region where the crack is extremely short. There are numerous sbs that show cracks in aircraft and that directly contradicts the graph they put up

@SoloRenegade I don't mean a one off forst article inspection of an out sourced part, I mean a sample inspection of each and EVERY batch you receive from that supplier. We all know suppliers never deliver the same part as the one that they put 110% into to secure the contract and we all know ow that they will change their process or deviate from the manufacturing intent at some point due to material shortages, machinery changes, personal changes, cost cutting, etc. Van's 'goods received' QA should have caught this much earlier. After watching the full video, I also can't believe that in an aircraft structure, they are saying that manufactured cracks are acceptable ... sounds like something Boeing would say!

^ Thank You for Your summery.

I agree with you 100%

Or if you do LCP have quality be so bad. I'm not sure LCP's are bad, but their approach was terrible. It's so out of character for vans, that's what I don't get. Some of the LCP parts had totally obvious flaws. Did they not have their own QC at the factory prior to shipment or pull samples from batches?

You can Finance kits, engines, avionics. And this is almost entirely because of Vans aircraft. They normalized experiential/homebuilt aircraft. And now the banks recognize them for what they are. Modern E/AB aircraft are not Your granddaddy's airplane. If you want economical, you can still build a sonnex, peitenpol, or even a pitts. Aircraft cost is directly related to weight, which is related to size. And capability, which is related to power, and avionics. If you reduce size and capability from that of an RV-8 or -10, down to a Sonex with a basic panel, the cost is the same or less than a new Harley Davidson, or a couple of Jetskis.

Cracks are all over your part 23 aircraft, and the standard “repair” is to drill the tip - often multiple times. If the stresses are low enough, which most sheet metal on small aircraft is (it’s often driven by minimum gauge) - cracks will not grow to any critical length. They will be below the stress intensity threshold. They are speaking the truth. I’m a fatigue and damage tolerance engineer (aka - crack engineer) who works on Part 25 aircraft (jets). I don’t have a Van’s kit, but there is no cover up here. They are being very forthcoming and their presentation is a great engineering summary. As an aerospace engineer- this presentation gives me HUGE confidence in Van’s engineering. They are ticking the right boxes. I’m absolutely a buyer when they get out of bankruptcy and get the RV-15 design perfected.

And this is ignorance after experts explained everything thoroughly

Laser cut was never the issue. It was where the laser cuts started and stopped that was the issue. The usual process is to start the cut off the intended like... so for the cracking holes, you'd instead start inside the hole and spiral out to the final cut line. They cracked because the point where the laser started resulted in a slightly larger cut than the rest of the line, resulting in a stress concentration.

Actually, go look at 3:47 on the long-form video. They have the actual toolpaths shown.

Vans will con as many as possible to get their now inferior products oit the door!🤮

It does sound like a lot of lawyer speak. I know folks are passionate about Vans aircraft and its owner, but I agree the 180 pivot from one of the major problems that caused need to declare bankruptcy is no longer an issue?