Vanguard Outfitters Black Fang 5.7 x 28mm / 34 gr - 3x LOT comparison: Ruger LC & 57 - 7/18/23 

working on GPM video, and realizing the BF 3/4/23 LOT was the pre-order from 12/22...and arrived with GPM I received as part of same order. Another GPM order I then did AFTER receiving on 3/4/23, was different (charge went from 6.3 -> 7.1). In other words, I think it's possible, or maybe probable that the BF could have also been changed after the late '22 pre-orders went out in early '23. I guess I might have to buy another box of BF to find out. After I saw they my '22 pre-order GPM rounds were ~100 fps faster than my July '22 order (along with one of your videos + the very good gel test results I saw), I right away placed another GPM order. They were roughly the same velocity, so at the time I thought they were same workup. But then when I started test shooting more of them last month, those pre-order late '22 rounds were having all kinds of blown primers & my Ruger LC (ejector) jammed up while firing them. So.......no way for me to know right now if the LOT #3 Black Fang I shot in this video is the "latest". This is some tricky stuff.

Do you happen to know how many different LOTs of BF and/or GPM you have, or did have? And do you have GPM rounds you bought at different times? Curious when & what the charge weights are - especially in those ones you were having cycling issues (in ROCK?) or the case-gauge squeeze.

@@ShastaBean I don’t have boxes left of the monumentals so I don’t have the lot number. I still have a round and could pull it but it wasn’t the bdf, it was the hollow points that were bad for the me. The bdf’s all ran great.

the 2nd batch that was in 1900s was at least near 2000 fps...but yeah, I'm with you. At least when I reached out to them, they were not abrasive or arrogant and were in a supply constraint and switched powder. Sux for us buyers, but I guess things do happen. And they did improve it after that. Elite advertises 2500 & 3400 fps for the S4 and when I shot it I got 2250 & 2750 fps...when I reached out to him, I got told it was my chronograph. Nice.

​@@ShastaBeanHe is kind of a douche from what I've heard. At least Vanguard had always been cool with me.

@pewpew9193 (edit) thought this was from other video...I see who you mean. Yeah, he's been pretty helpful in some things, for sure. But admitting to any fault is not a strong-point, for sure!!

The video shows pretty clear consistency issues and yes, sad groups. The potential is there, and especially if a person wants something penetrate plates, this is near the top for that. I keep wanting to buy another box or two to see if they have things ironed out, but I'm set on loading my own rounds for now. Several of the projectiles I've already loaded will penetrate most of the same as these, although the fang may edge out that capability. That really isn't my primary desire, though. I want something that will penetrate decently but also some expansion or the right fragmenting. I personally like their GPM better than these, but those also lack consistency.

Thanks for the info. Ill pass on these.

Vanguard has a website, but I haven't seen anything available from them for many, many weeks. Thought about emailing them to see if something wrong, or what's up. Zero products show available, not just ammo.

Buffman would be best source to really find out. Especially regarding armor & gel. As seen here, the BF has been inconsistent in terms of velocity, probably due to sourcing components, and accuracy not great. I've seen the same problems with their 36 gr GPM, and those were purchased mostly at different times. I have only shot a few (4) T6B and one keyholed and also had another FTFeed with Ruger 57. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3ehOPOMxYIA.html I'm working on loads to best fill a carry magazine, and who knows...I could see putting 1 or 2 of either at the end of the magazine.

definitely isn't precision shooting ammo

👌

haha, sure could. These wouldn't be my 1st choice for defensive use, but might be useful for "specific purpose-driven functionality"...if you know what I mean.

@@ShastaBean Good for you I'm glad you posted that "forever Comment" on the internet 😵‍💫.. You know what I mean. But then again With that post, i'm pretty sure you're not smart enough to know what I mean. 🤔 😊🇺🇸🇺🇸

@@ShastaBean Maybe this will help🤪....Headlines!!! Press release From The office of the state prosecutor... Small high velocity bullet goes through bad guy and kills Innocent child. State seeking charges.... You know what I Mean?

so you don't realize that bear defense requires deeper penetration? How about defending against the brick-like sloped-skull portion of javelina(s) attacking you? What about people that drive armored trucks? Might they not need penetration & barrier-blind properties?? Not sure what purposes you are trying to get tossed about, but try harder. You got this! A threat is a threat is a threat. Be if 1 legged, 2-legged or 4-legged...foreign or domestic. Is it not? And just because it might not be FIRST choice, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a spot in a magazine. You do know magazines hold more rounds than the 1 round in a chamber, right? So that's the 1st choice. Rounds deeper in the magazine are (by definition) "not the 1st choice". I definitely await your emoji-filled reply. It really says a lot when you do that.

@@republicansthatdidntvotefo1605 but for people living in Mom's basement (not mentioning any names / hint-hint...) or living in an apartment complex, or have others very close...and a round passes through an attacker, and into those other undesired areas...and someone dumb enough to load up Black Fang rounds (not mentioning any names / hint-hint) who have those factors...yes, you bet...a Pesky Prosecutor could certainly be trouble for you.