More weight, more top speed. Less weight, better acceleration. Or...? Support me on Patreon! / 2strokestuffing Instagram / 2strokestuffing twitter / 2stuffing facebook / 2strokestuffing
So basically, the rollers perform the same function in a cvt that sprockets perform on a chain-driven bike. Lowering or raising the tooth count of the sprockets on the bike won't give you "more" top speed or acceleration, it will simply work differently with the engine/rpm band and you'll trade one for the other, depending on gearing. Different weight rollers will keep you in a certain 'gear' longer or shorter as your engine revs. Which is 'better' is dependent on how you ride the bike and where your engine likes to operate.
Incredibly well stated. That is exactly what the variator does. If it's viewed as this analogy it should be thought of as a person with the ability to exert X amount of force to the bicycle crank at a range of rpm. The same work being done viewed as calories expended and muscle worked\torn. Hypothetically a person can pedal faster with less force to get to and maintain 20mph or pedal slower with more force to achieve the same result. Operating in a reasonable range of the ability of the person\powerplant\ engine, it will end up at the same top speed eventually as long as the parameters are within a good range of specification.
15,000rpm if your turning those kind of numbers your not gonna watch this for advise you are spot on as to light weights shift at high rpm and heavy shift quicker what makes the decision is how much weight are you hauling off the line
A light rider, say 110 lbs.. heavy or light weights? I actually wanna make my 150cc scooter Slower Less Powerful to learn on. Perhaps I should have started with a 50cc but I didn't have that option.
thank you so much i was gonna buy lighter weights (im actually a biker never ridden a scooter) but i just wanted to check if you had any videos and you did and i figured out i need heavier weights
the roller weights that are put in as stock are a compromise , you don't necessarily want a scoot that instantly shoots up to 8k rpm ( peak power) as soon as you fart on the throttle when trying to cruise along At 50 mph an a straight road or through town on a slightly open throttle lol.Its fine if you want that sort of performance ( I know some will)but most that think they do probably don't when they are trying to commute into work in the rain !. Not meaning to be a killjoy just saying think about what you want to achieve before you go fiddling and end up with undoubtedly a faster scoot but maybe one thats crap for day to day use. I can never understand why people think putting heavier weights in the variator gives better top speed it can only ever close up so far and unless you put stupidity low weights in it or you fit a spring that is way too strong it will always close up as far as it will go giving the same top speed.
actually there is another factor (RPM) regardless of pulley belt travel, as the belt reach the top of the pulley the bike will now accelerate as the engine RPM increases lets say if you put heavy roller and your belt tops out at 7000rpm and it cannot go anymore faster but when you put lighter rollers your belt tops at 8000rpm and the engine produces a bit more power at such rpm the top speed will slowly creep up together with the rpm a 500 rpm increase at top belt travel could mean 10-20km/h more speed
i have pcx 160cc engine. peak at 15.8HP at 8500rpm. it has bigger engine but also heavier bike. at 131kg. with fuel 8.1liter. and oil etc. it will be closer to 140kg. make power to weight ratio even worst. it has 19gr roller. i think it pretty much self explanatory. very smooth acceleration but also quite a heavy drag. ill try 17gr roller soon.
I got a rebuild kit w little bit heavier weights & I put them in. The engine was constantly winding out, too high rpm before catching, not using ANY of the lower rpms, very annoying. I put the stock lighter weights in & it was much better use of low & high rpms. So the heavy weights made it rev all the time. Yerf dog 150cc
My bike is really slow to pick up revs up to around 15-20mph, and then it pulls ok revs fine, is this weights/drivetrain servicing related? Thanks in advance
Hey there, I am new to most of this. How do you approach figuring out what your machines peak RPM is, and then further matching the weights to achieve that?
A good day sir, can you help or what will you recomend weight of the ball for may honda adv150? I use 1200rpm center spring and 1000rpm for clutch spring, my weight is 58kilos!!! Thanks in advanve for your help
So basically lighter weight make ur bike launch faster and heavy weight give top speed. He said that isnt how it works but he explained it that way? So im confused.
I don't remember if my scooter had light or heavy rollers put in. But 2 months ago I had my 49cc scooter upgraded to a 110cc, but before I was able to reach 50+mph going downhill but only 35 on flat ground. Now with this engine I can only go 45mph on flat ground and downhill, and just over 30 uphill. Do I have light or heavy rollers?
You have heavier rollers that do not accommodate your engine upgrade. Experiment with lighter rollers to boost your engine RPM and keep the engine within desired power-band. Thanks.
My experience regarding upgrading scooters the bigger the engine upgrade the lighter the rollers and stiffer the contra spring, it just produces so much power and so fast that the roller weight shift up the variator too soon actually making the bike slower than stock
All a variator does is keep the rate of rpm stable at the rpm you desire. The lower the weight, the less centrifugal force, the higher the rpm. If you don't understand the principal of a CVT transmission you will never understand this. Search CVT transmission explained on RU-vid.
my bike "is stuck" sometimes on 50km/H it will have to go over 55km/h and aftger 55 it accelerate like a madman to 70-75km/h .. im throwing my 17,5mm carb on i just have the 12mm original now on my 70cc cylinder... tried heavy rollers and it did 80km/h but way to slow acceleration. i had 7gram when it did 80, and now i have 6.5 i think
I changed 5,5g rollers for my chinese 50cc (gy6 engine) and now from standing start the engine revs quite high before the transmission "catches" and then the rpm gets lower and rises gradually as speed increases. This revving didn't happen with the old rollers but the RPM just increased logically from standing start. Now my question is: could this revving start cause damage to the belt/clutch or the cones so should I get slightly heavier rollers?
my 100cc scooter max speed is 100km/h accelerates fast until 80-90km/h and then doesnt pull hard. I use 7.5g roller weights ,but i want better top speed , i will try to change my belt, stock exhaust, use 9.3g roller weights and red clutch springs will it help ?
If you want a higher top speed, the only one of the changes listed that will affect it is changing the stock exhaust to a performance exhaust, and even that will only have an effect on the top speed if you don't have an RPM limiter and a better exhaust allows your engine to reach higher RPMs. Do the RPMs start to rise when you are nearing the top speed? If yes, it means that you'll have to get a new variator that allows a lower gear ratio, basically it will give you an extra gear or you'll have to raise the max RPMs. If not, it means that you'll have to increase the engine power at the RPMs it's running. This can be achieved by checking whether it is running at it's peak power and if not, adjusting the roller weights to fix it. If it is running in it's peak power, you're going to have to do something to your engine to make it produce more power.
Problem is i dont have rpm gauge so i dont know if my weights are good or not, or where my engine power îs the highest, for exemple at a carburetor engine, does it have like a cutfuel at certain rpm or it just keeps reving untill it destroy itself?
Please elaborate on what you mean at 1:10 when you say 'keep the rpm at peak power while the bike is variating". In your example, you use 15,000 rpm so does that mean the bike shifts when that rpm is reached? How can you identify when the bike shifts with a CVT transmission? Thanks
im probably a little bit too late and you know this stuff already. But what i have learned the variator starts to change the gear ratio for example at 15,000rpm (which isnt quite realistic) or where ever your bike makes the most power and it keeps the RPM constant through the range until it hits the maxium "gear ratio" where the belt is in its outer edge at primary variator and at inner edge in the secondary variator. Cvt doesnt shift like a regular transmission so it doesnt have those noticeable rpm drops when it "shifts" but it changes gear ratio when the rpm in trying to get over the limit set by the rollers and contra spring. You cant really tell when the variator "shifts" because it has an infinite amount of possible gear ratios and its so smooth because of that. Its possible that i got something wrong.
The shift point is controlled by the contra spring and clutch springs . The contra spring is what set the rpms for engagement. I run a 1500 contra and 2000 clutch with 10 gram sliders . I take off like I shit lighting . Top speed is 70 plus 171 cc gy6
2STROKE STUFFING oh ya, one thing I'm still confused, is it true if we replace the stock clutch spring with the softer spring, will result in the clutch being slip in high RPM??
2STROKE STUFFING if I install new CVT Spring that harder than stock, and roller is standard/stock as well. What will happen with the Top Speed? Whether it'll decrease?
I have a Vario scooter ( 150cc ) Maximum capacity 9.7kW at 8500rpm Maximum torque 13.4Nm at 5000rpm According to your instructions, if you want the scooter to accelerate quickly, you have to put the roller (lightly) to increase the engine rpm, right? Then the amount of RPM allowed to increase ranges from 5000-8500RPM so can i use the roller (light) to increase the rpm to 7500RPM Pls help me
yoir scooter have 13,0 hp at 8500 rpm and 9,4 hp at 5000 rpm so the best acceleration be at 8500 rpm if belt will not slide what can happen if ypu setup only lighter rollers if not than ok but if yes than better way be change central spring this big one 👌🏻 on stiffer results be the same. but probability of belt slide lower or basically imposiible 👌🏻 but if you setup rpm at 8500 rpm be rolerr spring whatever how and what than your scooter can lost its stock topspeed especiallly assuming manufactpry setup cvt on 5000 rpm and belt go fast to its highest point at font disc and lowerest at rear= highest gear posible cos with such low rpm at which is max torq assuming manufactory setup acceleration before belt achieve higjest gear at max torque rpm so 5000 rpm to let say 60 km/h what for 13 ,0 hp be good setup cos than at 8500 rpm speed be 102 kmbh they could in fact setup it even to 50 km/h 🤐 than 8500 = 85 km/h than if it have anarrow peak power so it egzist very short from 8500 and power drop rapidly than if ypu setup 8500 rpm level be rollers or spring up to 50 km/h than yea 🤭 it probabaly hit in rev limiter at like 60-70 km/h and the end of acceleration and engine scream max what be catastrofcallly bad setup for feg highway cruising 🤭 🤷🏻♂️ in such situation you will need to change primary shaft drive 👌🏻 for catch belt on highspest point at like 80-90 km/h + change rollers spring asf 👌🏻 than be ok if it have wide peak than no trouble 👌🏻it will have better acceleration and not lower top speed 👌🏻 alot depend how you use scooter in what road condition uphill head wind highway whatever so the outcome can satisfy you or not 🤷🏻♂️ perfect cvt work with hydraulic electeic etc engine/arm which force disc to change posiition on perfect one depend on road condition and what driver expect at specified point in time so max acceleration at each speed so driver open throtle to max ? and cvt setup rpm imdiatllelya t peak power rpm 😎🌪️ so strongest rpm ever 👌🏻 for lowering fuel cosnumption asf on lower rpm asf …. but none scooter have such stuff with typical cvt you need change alot stuff often for make cvt work perfect for your needs some have such setup stock cos peak power is wide and they have already in stock form basically max posibble acceleration thrpugh whole range speed and top speed limited be all outside resist 👍🏻 in such egzample if you change something you can screw its performance 👌🏻 but most scooters dont have this setup cos its power graph dont have very wide peak power than manufactory go on compromise in regard to peak power level often sacrifice max acceleration be setup rpm at peak torque rpm where power is lower but thanks this scooter have lower fuel consumption is lesss noise asf 👌🏻☕️
@@mociczyczki according to the information you shared To achieve the most optimal speed, it is necessary 1/ The belt is located at the highest point of the face pulley at maximum torque rpm 2/ The time from maximum torque rpm to maximum HP must not be too fast
@@qbwash4282 what? 🤷🏻♂️ long story short max acceleration at set speed = 8500 rpm /max power of engine everything else is preferention setup asf if you want max acceleration at 30 km/h cvt must ho,d at this 30 km/h 8500 rpm sp peak power rpm if ypu want max acceleration at 80 km/h the same cvt must hold engine at 8500 rpm because watt:m/s= force and force :mass/all resist = acceleration 👌🏻simple ☕️
I understand what you mean. If you want to accelerate quickly, you must reach 8500rpm and maintain it there, but I want to have top speed as I said above, I don't know if it is correct as you shared.
@@qbwash4282 if you want speed in terms of top speed for long cruising well first of all in what condtiin you ride uphill downhill asf if alot uphills lowpressure etc than higher rpm first you must know how is setup stock cvt cos it can have small quantity of gears due to feg small cvt disc radious etc etc than if you recognize stock setup than you can setup for what you want in regard to riding condition in which you typically drive 👌🏻 rpm level acceleration level topspeed level if it have wide peak power band than you can setup 8500 rpm from low speed and it dont lossse top speed but engine be very noisy cos always work on high rpm 👌🏻 if you dont need max acceleration from low speed assuming kanufactory dont setup rpm on peak power rpm from low speed but peak torque and you want only good topspeed for cruising on highway and this scooter have narrow peak power than left stock setup cos they typicallly setup optimal gearing for topspeed in standarised test condition for all resist which scooter have typical topspeed with upright position on level tarmac asf for 13 hp scooter be like 90 km/h gps max 👌🏻unless you drive alot down hilll than you can put lil heavier rollers asf precise setup can be choice only after knowing precise stock setup and what you need otherwise you knownwhatever 👍🏻☕️
Great tip! But how to know the peak power in my Vespa GTS 150 rpm range? I’m buying a Malossi Multivariator specific for my scooter that comes with 12.5 gr rollers should that be right?
Okay so this is whats happening: I have Beta Ark it's 3.2kW...with everything stock it goes around 80km/h with me(66kg)...but acceleration is shit and i cant possibly pop a wheelie...do you have any sugestions what should i change to get a better takeoff?
Just to double check, and I know I'm unlikely to get a response on such an old video, but I've just picked up an old Italjet to tinker with... When you say "shift at peak power" do you mean that it shifts INTO peak power, or shifts gear once it reaches peak power?
Engines hp and torque cross around 4000 rpm Then torque fall off hp takes over. You shift at the redine of your build. Bigger gear in front smaller in back is top end IE switching from a 11 to a 13 up front gives you top end. 11 to 10 would be low end. Smaller gear in back 52 to 50 top end. Big gear 58 to 60 in back, low end. You change ine or both til your happy with what your butt dyno is 'telling you' When i raced We'd go up 1 in front down 2 in back In the 70s i had a 125 italjet dirt bike. Finicky bastard. Carb will be your biggest issue. Yee haw
@@jamesbeason9256 oh no I get final drive ratio adjustment and fine tuning. I don't shift at red line because redline is where the limiter kicks in to protect the engine - it's not the peak Hp OR torque, nor does it allow shifting into peak power or torque in the next gear. I was more wondering about the terminology used - "shift at peak power", seems counterproductive - wastes power, and shifts into a gear too early. I've managed to sort out carb, home made exhaust pressure formed) and lubing system - the thing is lowered and has a stretched chopperlike front end on it, and wheelies like hell!
@@jamesbeason9256 btw +1 front and -2 rear is equivalent to a -5 on the rear...none of my smaller cc bikes have enough power in the top gears to hold that sort of gearing - hell, less than -4 rear on the 125s and I lose the use of 5th gear on anything more than downhill :P
@@the_mad_ratter You probably know more than I about a gy6. But, these engines can spin 10k rpm. I don't know where your rev limter is set. I'd ditch it, get an adjustable timing box. BUT, I ja3ve drag raced for 45 years. Most recent 675hp 540lb o torque NA big block chevy. You shift at your red line. Mines 7200 on the chevy. You really need a dyno to see the shift point. Your butt dyno will feel your bike nose over just a little. Your hp just took a hit. Drop 500rpms, theres your red line and your shift point. Thats why, back in the 60s 70s you'd see a bracket car guy miss a shft, instant windowed block. No room for missed shift at 6500rpm. You probly know that the term 'Red line' is arbitary. A lot of motors wil rap til they blow up. I think mopars do that. Its actually a movable needle on your tach. You decide thru track time and dyno. Chassis set up is 'yuge'. We measure 60 ft 120 feet times for our hole shots. When the car hits the traps it's right on the edge of grenading. Racin is racin. I build and test my r/c cars the same way.
@@the_mad_ratter Idk if your engine is stock or a monster. The valve springs go first. I doubt you could blow the engine up, throw a rod. Your more likely to float a valve first There is your first mechanical rev limiter. You may drop a valve. So, if you have a stock engine, remove your rev limter your mechanical rev line is 500-1000 rpms before the valves float. You may have ran out or hp before that happens. RPMs come from large by huge cams and boolit proof bottom ends. These engines a needle bearinged engines. Valvetrain is the weakest point. I hope I've been some help,madratter
Hello sir...I have a 125cc gy6 scooter and I installed a (2000rpm) spring clutch and the 3 little springs. Also 13g (18x14) sliders. But my scooter doesn't speed over 80km/h. Should I install 1000rpm spring clutch, and lighter rollers, for better performance..?
So whats the actual way to make scooters faster without conversion kits for bigger engine capacity?I have a 50 cc lpg scooter and i want it go faster than 35 mph
Hi i have i majesty 400 2007.put reicently half 14gr and 16gr.Magnificent accelleration b0 100 10sec but 150total speed.. was 165 what did i did wrong??put also a white sping
There's six roller weights all together could you take out three of them to go for a lighter setup would it possibly still work or would you need all 6 of them. So pretty much can you use just 3 roller weights.
Light but if down hill 1 or 0.5 lower than standard iv got 4.5gram standard but if just got 5gram for better topend speed I get to about 30mph and it then pulls to 50mph
hi. im from the Philippines. i have a Yamaha Scooter in which i modified it from 115cc to 160cc i tried to put 6x9g on it and and it accelerated slow and was able to go for roughly around 100kph it would still climb but it was too slow, however in the afternoon that day ive changes the rollers to 6x6g, so i tested it, the scooter's rpm is roaring, and i was able to get 130+kph fast, it would go higher but not engough road, my question is about gas consumption, would sudden change from 6x9g to 6x6g affect my gas consumption, i just ride around 70kph to 80kph on a daily basis and when there is a open road i would throttle down at around 120kph or less (it would depend on the traffic and our roads here are very wide), would it affect the gas consumption? Thank you for the video sir. I hope you can answer my question. 😄
2STROKE STUFFING I see, Thank you very much sir, just subscribed. 😄 i have one last question sir if you would not mind. Can I stagger the rollers? like putting 3pcs of 6g and 3pcs of 9g in symmetric?
Nice info helps alot (y) also i have this Honda scoopy which consumes a lot of fuel cuz i used 3x9grams and half 3x7grams good acceleration but consumes too much fuel and i want it to increase top speed not just acceleration.. should i use 3x7g and 3x8grams? need help and Thanks! also it is not upgraded so its only a stock motorcycle.
Every engine makes its most power at a certain rpm (peak power) Ideally you want to shift gears at the top of the peak power. The same is for a scooter CVT system. You want the engine to stay at peak power during the whole cvt shift. You will get over rev on a CVT system so like my gy6 170cc, peak power is it around 8000rpm so i have tuned the variator to keep the engine at that rpm, it will rev out to around 10000rpm in the over rev - where it makes less power....but the CVT must be maxed out before it will over rev, If that makes sense?
@@mitorider1365 I recently put a variator kit,clutch and 2k lb torque spring on my kids kfx90.its made by kymco and the parts I installed are compatible with the gy6.i put the same weights in it that the quad came stock with and it won't shift out of first gear.should I go heavier with the rollers you think or maybe the 2k torque spring is the issue?
+Dahl Put in the heaviest rollers you've got and take it for a spin. It'll gear out far too soon, and after that rpm will start climbing. When you feel/hear it's pulling the hardest that's approximately your peak power rpm.
ah ok, so i have a RPM gauge on my bike, do i just look at that and remember what RPM it pulls the best, with the heaviest rollers? and then put in lighter rollers so it tops out and that RPM?
In general An i ternalcombustion engine the torque and hp cross at 4000 rpm. Depending on ur build the torque may keep rising to about 4500. Then hp takes over to the redline. Torque pulls you hp is speed. Buy a small engine tach. Ride watch it and learn where you want to 'pull' to. Then go for top end.
Electric scooters. I ride an E-moving iE125. It goes from 0-50km/h in 3.9 seconds and can reach 102km/h before the overheating warning appears. It uses 6 19g weights. For electric motors, max torque is at zero rpm. So, should I try heavier weights for better performance?
you just negated yourself on the beginning, because lighter weights do mean more acceleration because ur variator opens later due to the centrifugal force on the weights not being strong enough, heavier weights will make ur variator open faster and since heavier weights can benefit more from the c force and open ur variator more creating a larger diameter pulley = higher gear ratio = more top speed , but choosing the correct weights makes a world of difference and is a bit of a science in it self
I have a jog90 variator on my Keeway scooter with a 70 cc malossi set up. The clutch is original. Malossi wild Lion exhaust. I had tried 4 gram and 5 grams weights. also a mix of 3.5 gram with 4 gram. still the scooter had a slow take off. When I switched to full 3,5 gram weights everything changed. fast take off. Good speed. 80km/h. I think i can higher topspeed. So, lighter weights with a heavy variator can mae a difference
@@2STROKESTUFFINGactually it still can top out as it just takes more RPM to create that centrifugal force ,my crazy friends tried removing 2 roller weights in a 6 roller setup, only 4 was installed and the lazy scoot transformed into an rpm monster with loads of acceleration i marked the pulley and the belt still tops out the rpm went up from lazy 8000 to 10000, 4 stroke scoot
This is very confusing to the every day rider and the way it was explained is also very confusing. Most scooters come with heavier weights in order to maximize fuel economy and engine longevity. So by default they come with the wrong slider/roller weight. So if you change them to lighter weights you will put the engine in it's power band sooner and you will definitely get quicker acceleration. This video does nothing but confuse people and it should have been much longer with better explanation.
A channel named FIFTYmil is spreading this false information, just because he achieved better results at lighter weights he concluded it is better for scooters to have lighter weight.
my 2019 burgman 400 has the same top speed with 14gr rollers and 20gr rollers...140km at same rpm 8500 i can not understand why it happening...what can i do to improve it...Thank you very much in advice
OK I was running 6.5g in my scooter 49cc with a big bore 100cc kit could not get it over 40. I put 8.5 in it that came with my kit and now I am hitting 46miles why is that ?
Hey there senpai. I got 50cc scooter. Ive put 3x10g roller & 3x9 roller on a big torque drive. Suddenly ive got 53kmh tops speed. Ive used 1500 rpm spring. How can i choose right wieght for that kind of setup.. Thnks in advance senpai
Hi bro i have 155cc scooter with max torque of 13.8 N.m @ 6,250 rpm and max power of 11.1kW / 8,000 rpm. What is the best roller weight to have better top speed??
Whan you upgrade to a big bore kit does this change the power band drastically or or will it be relatively close to the same as the powerband when the bike was stock? I have been tuning my scooter with an 80cc bbk on it and it's been tough to decide on what sliders to use in my Dr pulley variator. With 6gm sliders I can reach 8000 rpms downhill and with 6.5gm I hit Max of 7400 rpm. What rpm would you say is to high and most likely skipping over the power band for a 139 qmb 50cc 4stroke? Any input would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance.
5 лет назад
i don't want a fast scooter. i just want a high accelerated scooter. without compromising my fuel. what grams should i use ? - any suggestion ?
good explaination.. people forget that the variator spin on the crankle.. modifing weights and change with a more performance variator is equal to lightening a flywheel. higher rpm without a correct calculation isn't a good choice, risk of overspeed is dangerous. remember.. at high rpm the torque.. decrease.
I got lighter weights thinking I would go faster but I went slower I would go 30 kmh and hit 6000 rpms then it would go all the way up to 9000 rpms in a second I got heavier ones and it’s a lot smoother
Hi @2stroke stuffing, I hope you read this. Would you recommend keeping the variator at peak horse power rpm, at peak torque rpm, or perhaps somewhere in the middle? Love the video by the way. No blabla, but short and to the point. Cheers!
I installed some sliders 11g with a racing variator , i found i accelerated much quicker and got to 46mph pretty fast, however i do now find that i struggle to get to 57mph which is what i got on stock, but i think it is because i have a lighter weighted variator and the rollers are now sliders producing better acceleration at the cost of top end speed.
