Vegan and Low Carb Diet Effects on the Immune System 

Yet you cannot buy interferon in the US

Plant-based AND pescetarian group showed no significance in alcohol(0.09) and sugar sweetened beverage(0.06) consumption (although it was borderline, but ofc 0.05 is the magic number). Plant-based ONLY did show a significant lower alcohol(0.03) and sugar sweetened beverage(0.01!!!) consumption showing a clear healthy user effect. I find it extremely unprofessional to not show the correct table when the point of your video is to defend plant-based / vegan diets. --- Furthermore, keto and a paleo diet was not included in the study because they were conveniently removed since they did not reach the 100 participant mark, yet the pescetarian group was included although it was much smaller than n=100. I don't like how you dovetail into a study that actually tested Keto as if it's the same as the two diets: Low carbs OR high protein (yes they are two separate groups which completely different diet styles). Not to mention 2 weeks on keto is not enough since it takes weeks for the body to adapt to the changes. It's like giving a participant chemotherapy and measure the effect 10 minutes later and say it doesn't work because now the participant has radiation in their body and the cancer hasn't shrunk yet. Second paper even shows and talk about the anti-cancer effect of Keto which you just kind of gloss over. The Vegan group ate twice as much iron and probably with a lot of vitamin C which can explain the heme metabolism. And I wouldn't put much weight on the microbiome changes since Keto is such a big change that there is bound to be a loss of bacterias during the adaptation period which will be replaced over time. I am kind of amazed however at the amazing changes that the Keto diet managed to do in such a short time span. Usually adaptation progress over months. It's such a shame. I used to trust you, but you clearly have an agenda you want to push. This is clear at this point. Strangely this video made me more hype for the keto diet because despite intense scrutiny nobody has been able to disprove it even while acting extremely dishonest and hacking p-values.

Can you give the studies definition of ""Plant Based Diet"? It appears to be different from Vegan and Vegetarian, but you didn't show it. Maybe in the description????

@@treali As I said, it's a crap study and a crappier conclusion

This study indicates that in front of a pandemics, going vegan should be a public health directive, even perhaps enforced by law (instead of confining all human beings at home).

Does eating keto affect your kidney lab results in any way?

Hi @@planegoodmusic: I don't have any signs of kidney issues. When I look at my blood tests over the last 6 years my Creatinine levels are on average 75umol/L (ref range 60-110), (I live in Australia and some measurement methods are different to USA). Also Urea levels are within normal range. I did have issues for Liver biomarkers ALT & AST and gout for approximate a year when I allowed more fructose/carbs into my diet, removing 90% of foods with fructose solved these issues.

Needs fact check mate. Whatever you have provided is anecdotal reference. Studies done have standards and peer reviewed results. Social media nonsense IMO

How much did the meat industry pay you for this 😂

Eating dead animals certainly hasn't helped your attitude of mercy and kindness .

I'm a greens fan too!

When you say "greens" what exactly does that mean? Salad and raw cold leaves, or cooked, green beans, brocolli? Could you tell me what is a typical meal of greens. I am getting there and need to improve my diet and lose weight.

You’re very welcome. My pleasure.

I did not come up with it. NEWSTART.COM

NEW START has been taught at Uchee Pines Institute since 1980s st least. Dr Thrash likely used it years before I learned it there. Uchee Pines Institute, Seale, Alabama

@@meman6964 Thanks, hadn't seen/heard it before.

@ScienceNow-clearly not for everyone. Remember, we are all different.

@ScienceNow- what are you even talking about? So there's no food allergies, or intolerance? Lactose and gluten intolerants don't exist? There's no celiac disease? Yes, there's a lot of individuals differences that if you don't consider you might end up killing them. There's tons of testimonies from people who literally got cured from switching to a completely different strict diet and yes, they include autoimmune disorders and even neoplasias.

​@@nuvamusic No, we're really not very different at all. Human DNA varies ~0.4%. ie we're pretty much all the same. The individual diet argument is bunk.

@@NonchalantWalrusParty 🤦🏻‍♀️

Sadly, until something significant changes, the foreseeable future is during COVID. If that sounds dismal, many of us remember when HIV was on the upswing and survival was unheard of. We find ways of getting on with life.

Thank you so much

I found this I hope this helps a bit? It is a bit of a read and technical. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8702655/

10% of calories is well within the definition of low carb.

It states it in the article. 10% of calories.

I would’ve thought that we would’ve seen that with the Finns.

Thanks for your question. I believe by definition, a low-carb diet is anywhere from 80 to 240 cal daily limit of carbohydrates. The example here fits well within that range. The authors of the study have reported in their article that there was no statistical difference in the order of the diet. It made no difference.

@@Medcram Thanks for the reply, my problem with the way its reported here is that it's as if people on ANY low carb diet will be worst off compared to a plant-based diet based on the nurses study and the cross-over study. I understand that the researchers choose to use "low carb" accordingly to how its defined in the research. However, when we look at the food intake for the nurses, it is clear that they are not on any metabolically healthy low carb diet (fruit juices, bread, sweets and desserts), same for the cross-over with 10% carbs which can account for 300 g for a 3000 kcals daily intake. None of the diet are based on the therapeutic level of low carb diet. There is a difference in metabolic health outcome between someone eating 200-300 grams of carbs per day versus someone eating 10 grams or less per day. I am sure you are not ignorant to this. Yet, none of these are teased out as part of the explanation, leading to the conclusion that ANY low carb diet is less healthy and having worst outcome than a vegan diet based on these 2 papers. This is one of the reasons why social media is full of debunked video because people are not objective and honest in their presentation.

I read a study somewhere that showed that fasting is the only diet statistically proven to extend your lifespan. You can starve yourself by eating nothing, or starve yourself by eating veggies, there's probably little difference.

It’s clear in the video that the low-carb diets in the randomized control trial was well below 20 g per day. In fact it was only 10% for daily intake which would mean it was less than 200 cal per day. This was not done based on a survey, but rather food given to the subjects.

Interesting. 2 weeks only per. What was the washout time frame? Total daily caloric amount of food and food type? Based on “net”carbs or “total” carbs

200 cals is 50g. not keto.

what was your diet prior you went carnivore?

Except they there were plenty of subjects in this study that were just that. Low carb. The population homogeneity also lowers the chance of healthy user bias. The OR is large

No, its the less or lack of animal products

big veg isn't a thing, big animal ag on the other hand...

@@ashvio Have you had your five a day?

@@zakariahussein962 Tyson foods pay you well? Maybe JBS? Just look up the size of these companies and their lobbying (aka corruption) arms and tell me they aren't controlling the world.

The graph actually shows the opposite.

Because you cannot attack the fact that it was a randomized controlled crossover trial?

What is clear is that you do not have a science background and you have no idea how powerful a randomized controlled crossover trial actually is. Before you go around criticizing, get yourself educated so that you can at least speak intelligently to the facts. Your comments make clear your ignorance.

@@g.e.boroush5176 Either you're naive, or you have a vested interest in the research. It's not about accuracy at all, it's about trust. He who pays for the research usually gets the results he wants. BTW, I do have a scientific background, including statistics.

@@Medcram If the raw data wasn't cherry picked (similar to lots of other research), it could be solid. However, I have no way of knowing that, thus the caution.

Did low tiroid function be related with low thermogenesis ?

Two weeks is plenty if the object is to increase interferon in the short term to fight an infection.

keto is terrible for you long run

The randomized controlled crossover trial does define low-carb. It is about 10% of calories and you can see it in the video and in the study.

We went over a number of studies here

I am not one to keep going back and forth with answers and I rarely post comments, but you have to agree your cited studies are either poorly controlled or have minuscule sample sizes to have any value at all in a scientific method, again in my humble opinion and in all respect, cheers!@@Medcram

It was probably too short short of a period of time to see appropriate weight loss.

Actually, intermittent fasting can have an effect, although there is more of an effect at 72 hours - true.

@@Medcram thanks!

I wish people would use your words instead of acronyms.

In terms of the crossover study, there are no confounders as everyone acted as the control. It is literally the most powerful study design possible.

It did.

Yes, we mentioned that in the video

Why are plant lovers always mean?

Meanwhile meat eaters live to be the oldest in age, while there is not one vegan who ever came close to be the oldest. Also Hong Kong has the highest life expectancy and they eat the most meat on earth. Matter of fact, there is no vegan i know who was vegan their whole life and made it past 70. Vegans are hilarious thinking they are healthy, when they are stuck on synthetic drugs from a lab, and have laughably low life spans.

And that’s why we described a randomized controlled crossover trial. Did you watch the video?

Data is often confused with propaganda.

@Medcram there is data then there is a randomised control trial. Until people are locked into a controlled environment for decades all we have is bought and paid for propaganda and ideology. Asking people to remember what they ate does not inform on anything, but it does allow ideologists and agendas to be propped up because most people believe it because a Dr said it. And that is how we end up with channels like this.

Vegan can be any amount of carbs that you choose. And it has a lot of nutrients that carnivore does not.

And yet..... Lol, sorry cope

But as you can see, in the studies that we presented vegetable oils, consumption was the same in both groups in the first study.

Does not matter. Vegans dont live that long, or stay on the diet. The more vegans lie, the more ppl will reject the unhealthy vegan diet. I just hope they dont push this unhealthy vegans diet on kids, pregnant women, and the elderly.

That just sounds like a standard American diet lol

The low carbs OR high protein group is basically the middle ground omnivore diet. Keto, carnivore, paleo is not even considered in the study about covid severity. In fact they were filtered out by the authors themselves. Leaving two very weird groups of people not following any real diet with a severe unhealthy user effect.

​Standard american has cereals in it and other sweets and processed food , pasta ,rice . In my opinion she eats in a healthy way .@@ashvio

@ashvio lol ya, you're talking about fast food, lots of starch, fried food, sugar, etc. Dang, I just made my stomach growl.

Most of my recipes start with bacon.

That certainly would be interesting. However, I think the two weeks here is sufficient if one is considering this intervention during an illness, which requires a boost innate immunity in the short term.

@@Medcram okay so you are saying that a two week long strict vegan diet can be used as part of treatment of a severe viral illness? My immediate thought had been that if two weeks is good then a permanent diet change could be very good

You're so welcome!

same here. primarily carnivour diet but will have some mixed nuts once in a while (trying to limit oxylates and other "anti-nutrients"). toss in some excersize and i feel better than i have in the last 15 years.

Rejoice, I read the studies. Keto, carnivore and paleo diets was not included in the study. They only studied people that ate EITHER low carb OR high protein diets. Which means they didn't follow a particular diet and probably weren't healthy to begin with. In fact people following keto was filtered out of the study. MedCram said there was no healthy user effect but if you look at the actual vegan/plant-based diet they had a significantly less consumption of alcohol (0.03) and sugar sweetened beverages (0.01!!!

​@treali Also consider self reporting and data quality. Plus, the more I learn about nutrition, the more I question study methods. Something as simple as what Brad Marshal has shown 2 dietary extremes being metabolically healthy. On one end, low carb, high fat, low- moderate protein The other low fat, low protein, high carb. In between these is bad. So a bit too low on fat and high on carb? Well keto is not so great. Too high on fat for low fat? Also bad. Lower branched chain amino acids, and more collagen as the protein source.. helps negate downsides of high protein, possibly entirely. So.. yeah.. observational studies for nutrition? Near worthless with this data quality of self reporting. In the end.. I think keto vs plant based is simply the wrong question.

@@treali Again, the comparison was BOTH vegan AND pescatarian TOGETHER. Sorry.

Thank you very much!

Isn't it because diabetes is a physiology adaptation by the body to having too much fat inside cells and by going vegan / keto you can remove this fat and improve your condition.

Hmmm, could be dieters general predilection to eat well, i.e. not processed and not sugared. Keto diets have nutritional and biological reasons why they lower glucose levels, not so sure about vegan, seems like some could overdo the bread and crackers and it be a problem.

It may just be that people who think about what they are going to eat choose better food, in general, with less highly-processed food.

It’s like forest management. A low fat plant diet (healthy vegan) diet clears the clears overgrown and dead shrubs from the forest floor making it hard for a fire to start or spread and a keto diet clears a path around the forest to keep the fire away. Both methods work.

Mastering Diabeties teaches that type 2 is caused by (a) dietary fat, and (b) dietary animal proteins. So, keto does not help and generally makes things worse. A1c will drop with keto bc there are fewer sugars going in the body. But, that's a false indicator bc the diabeties itself is actually getting worse. Also, type 2 is reversable through a plant based diet IF caught early enough. If you try keto first, you may miss that window of opportunity.

In the video, the interventional trial was 10% carbs which would put it well below the threshold for a definition of low-carb of 240 cal per day. Furthermore, two weeks is plenty of time to get the highly statistically significant and consistent, but opposite effects of a vegan diet on very important immune markers. After all, this is what you would need to have to affect an intervention like interferon a respiratory disease, that can go bad in just seven days.

​@@Medcram The problem is that first few weeks of low carb diet is metabolism rebuilding for fat adaptation. During that period people usually feel ill. It may get a very misleading view on how being on low carb, high fat diet affects organism.

yes i found that to be confusing as well.

I'd be more interested in results from calorie and protein equated studies. Cause usually some diets, especially vegan diet, shows benefits cause they tend to eat less kcals

@@GoalOrientedLifting Yes. But at least they did match the groups for BMI.

I read the study. Keto, carnivore and paleo diets was not included in the study. They only studied people that ate EITHER low carb OR high protein diets. Which means they didn't follow a particular diet and probably weren't healthy to begin with. Which is proven in the paper. MedCram said there was no healthy user effect but if you look at the actual vegan/plant-based diet they had a significantly less consumption of alcohol (0.03) and sugar sweetened beverages (0.01!!!

How did they diagnosed your arteriosclerosis when you had it and how when they told you ,you no long have it. Thank you very much

The second paper he showed in the video even says "We also saw higher activation of pathways associated with cancer in vegan compared with ketogenic diet." AND "Our data suggest that both ketogenic and vegan diets might influence cancer outcome, and preliminary evidence supports the idea that ketogenic diet might be beneficial in conjunction with other cancer treatments34, whereas there are no published studies investigating the impact of vegan diet on cancer."

@@trealiplease look at the right hand column which includes pescatarians. Again no health user effect.

@@treali I eat red meat at least twice a week, and other meats at least 2X a day. My cholesterol and triglycerides are pretty close to bacon fat. Never caught COVI though most of my family had it, so was it my diet?

That would be the case if this were an 1800 cal diet. Please look again.

I highly recommend you look into intermittent fasting, and it’s effects on the immune system. Especially prior to chemotherapy. Look up the 72 hour fast study out of the university of Southern California.

@@MedcramYes, thank you. We’ve been using Longo’s program and will also look at the 72 hour study. Just trying to convince my oncologist that it’s a legitimate approach. Thanks again.

The comedian George Burns smoked 10 to 20 cigars per day for 70 years and lived to 100 years old. Outliers exist.

I believe 80 to 240 cal daily limit defines low-carb diet

Not exactly. This is an interventional diet in a regular person to affect immune changes needed for an acute infection. Two weeks is plenty.

There’s a lot of people. As a percentage they didn’t do too badly considering….

Yes. And we have!

The randomized controlled crossover study has no confounders. It is literally the most powerful study design there is.

Vegan and keto are not necessarily mutually exclusive, diets

well, I am glad you say so... It is so hard for me to see the constant attack on keto... I come from a family with many deaths due to diabetes... for me keto was a blessing... thanks @@Medcram

Do you take supplements?

But apparently it is because it made statistical significance

@@Medcram Yes but there was no statistical significance around the long term affects of a certain recent medical intervention. Turns out over longer time frames things can indeed change.