Vertical Shifting Counterpoint || Movable Counterpoint 2 

Thank you, that is a very flattering thing to say. Of course I still have lots of room to improve the content and the presentation. I cannot recommend your channel highly enough to anyone who is interested in my videos. The stuff you put out is excellent.

@@JacobGran Thanks for responding. The flattery is mutual. I learn a lot from your videos!

I think the right answer here is that you both are the best classical music channels on RU-vid! Phenomenal videos from you both, that are very helpful and well-explained-Thank you!

First reply!!!

Exactly! Indices like ±6 and -8 feel horrid to write in 2-voice combis as per the book where you're writing for outer-voice-pair to outer-voice-pair swaps, but if you're writing for situations where either the original or derivative combis are upper voice pair then suddenly it's much more manageable and pretty broadly useful. When writing I came up with a method that's a little more compact, easier to reason around and potentially more accurate than Taneyev's: instead of using a single row of interval conditions for the original and derivative pair and then introducing liberties after the fact for multi-voice situations like permitting 4ths etc., you can use different rows of interval conditions for upper and lower voice pairs and simply use the appropriate rows for whatever voice pairs your original and derivative combis are meant to function in. It's a slight simplification, but I just write 4ths as consonant (no suspension signs) for upper voice pair condition rows, and extend the "..." from 3rds to 6ths instead of just 5ths and 6ths. Using different rows has the advantage that you can handle fairly complex cases and have the correct conditions simply "baked in". Still need to handle the edge cases as Taneyev does though. You can also gain liberties with direct motion (not parallel) at 2JJv even without this trick, since Taneyev doesn't really touch on the fact that, in practice, hidden 5ths/8ves are only really a concern in the outer voice pair, and only when the sop leaps (or in 2 voice texture more generally). If either the original or the derivative pairs are non-outer voice pairs, then you don't have to worry about directly approaching perfect consonances in them. Even if it's outer-to-outer, if your combi will be deployed in 3+ voice texture you can for instance approach a 6th in Jv = -9 if the bass moves by step and the sop by leap in the same direction, as the derivative will be a correctly approached direct 5th for 3+ voices.

@@hex5499 Of course, the rules of similar motion are relaxed under various conditions of real polyphonic writing, but you're right, Taneyev should have been more clear on the case of consonant 4ths, along the lines you describe (though I filled in some of those gaps myself as I was writing exercises).

",,,Rachmaninov described him as 'the personification of truth on Earth' ... Once, distressed by Rachmaninov's laziness when it came to studying the rudiments of composition, Taneyev hit on a novel idea. He sent his cook to Rachmaninov's house with a musical problem, and strict instructions not to return until Rachmaninov had solved it. Rachmaninov, knowing that Taneyev could not have his dinner until the cook went home, and begged by the servants in his own house to get rid of their unwanted visitor, was obliged to do the work required, and to do it quickly. Taneyev was prepared even to wait for his food if necessary, such was his inexhaustible devotion to his pupils."

@@hex5499 Do you know what was the musical problem Taneev gave Rachmaninoff?

Not to mention Scriabin!

@@SpaghettiToaster Strict counterpoint and Taneyev's numbering system is based upon a diatonic scale mapping, as opposed to a chromatic one. With this in mind, intervals are mostly not measured by their quality (major, minor, augmented, diminished); a 10th inversion is a 10th inversion, regardless of whether the 10th (and subsequent melodic intervals) end up having a major or minor quality; it comes down to where the 10th lands on the diatonic scale; a melody of C D E would become A B C (shifted downwards) or E F G (shifted upwards). But there are some exceptions where chromaticism has to be considered, such as the treatment of the tritone; the diminished 5th in relation to the bass has to be either corrected with musica ficta or treated as a dissonance. With this being said, the augmented 4th or diminished 5th in a diminished 63 chord are allowed, where there are 2-voice upper combinations in which the bass doesn't participate.

@@PiersHudsonComposer THANK YOU, I had this same question