Video shows JetBlue plane take off to avoid crash 

if you were smarter you wouldt be here calling things stupid

Second only to "any traffic in the area please advise"

@@bobbymac9877 No, he is correct, " I hope you don't hit us" IS the stupidest

even truck drivers on CB would not say that LOL

Especially when YOU are the one in the WRONG! He should be held accountable and have this pilots license REVOKED!

The King Air pilot was at fault for crappy radio communications. He was dinged by the FAA - not JetBlue.

As a pilot you should also know TCAS is often unreliable on the ground due to signal scattering/shadowing and what not. I fly the airbus and on the ground you often see TCAS targets zooming all over the place as if they were UFOs. It's not meant to be used for ground operations. ADS-B is, but the 121 world doesn't typically use ADS-B in (CDTI displays being an exception however they're experimental and also only meant for airborne use)

@@winstonchurchill3597 Aren't radio communications voluntary at non-towered airports? Not saying I agree with the King Airs ego, just surprised they can justify bad coms in uncontrolled airspace.

I mean it’s uncontrolled no one had to say anything over the radio. And landing traffic always has the right of way in comparison to someone on the ground

@@winstonchurchill3597imagine if jetBlue had just waited till the other traffic was on the ground?

Jesus take the rudder

Diversity hiring practices haven't affected high-end instruments yet. But it will. ATC has become another democrat clown show. I predict massive loss of life mid-air or ground collision in America 2024. Too many close calls are happening.

Not active on the ground.

TCAS is not activated on the ground so…

Tcas cant tell you to descend or ascend if you are on the ground..

If you are on the ground there is one option, ascend.@@Gamerboy-gy1rl

@mcdonalds trainings start every friday, there is for sure need for shift leader😂

The Jet Blue crew KNEW what was going on, unfortunately, they were WRONG. Shit happens. Very poor judgement from the King Air driver was apparently did have the spatial picture.

Yes and where was the tower in all of this? Aren't they supposed to be controlling and advising the planes on where to go? Why would the controllers sit by and let this happen?

Pero ya era difícil en ese punto detener las dos maniobras tanto la de aterrizaje como la de despegue. 😰😰😰

@@chellycat14 Non Towered airport means anything to you?…

Add the new millennial diversity hires to the mix!! I think I will be doing a lot more driving!!

For my own education, don't planes usually take off and land from the same direction (due to prevailing winds)? Why was the King Air landing INTO JetBlue's direction of take-off? Why wasn't King Air behind JetBlue (or JetBlue at the other end of the runway)? Cross-wind conditions? Terrain?

​@Davaldod sometimes there's no wind so it's a S show.

@@95youngtom Found the bigot.

​@@ostrich67Doesn't make him wrong.

It blows my mind that B737s are allowed to operate at untowered airports. GA planes… maybe. I think all airports should have ATC and ramp control. I’m glad I’m in the UK where there are such towers-especially given I’m a ramper.

​@mikoto7693 I want u to listen up very closely to what I'm about to say, understand buddy boy? I'm a GAYBLACKMALE. I am a commodity. I'm priceless. I rule the world.

Yeah i don't get that..

I'm a commercial pilot and I fly to untowered airports all the time. It's not as wild west as you might think. All of these aircraft are still being monitored by ATC, just not people at the airport. These big planes just do the exact same thing they would do at a towered airport

I’m a commercial pilot as well and it’s just plain stupid because you aren’t only dealing with other commercial pilots.

Doubtful King air will have tcas

both aircraft need TCAS and it may or may not work unless the aircraft is in a certain position, in the air or have enough speed. I dont know about real life but TCAS doesnt work in MSFS when on the ground for..... obvious reasons.

You just need mode C to show a target.@@dvpro1

Both pilots should be fired. They obviously don't have enough common sense to be pilots. If there is any doubt that there might be another plane on the run way don't land or take off. Complete idiots should not be pilots.

@@dvpro1iirc I thought king airs had at least a TA though?

I agree...we have better cameras at vending machines for crying out loud.

The radar systems are sometimes even older.

You buried the Leeds here: why is there a major carrier flying out of this airport with NO ATC. That’s like going out of LGB with no ATC.

@@indosilverclubpt2787 cause there are only 2 terminals. The airport is the size of a restaurant. LOL

@@Sahadi420 my guy, LGB is ONE terminal.

What changes do you suggest?

​@Jsmith8 at least an in depth study for safety improvements

@@MikeSmith-do5gu Well you should read the final report for that.

​@@JimMacintosha system that enforces runway IN USE for everyone, and noone messes around unless actual emergency. Or you put someone in the tower, a third party to decide upon conflicting intentions. Second, "who, where, and what intentions in what timeframe ?" On uncontrolled airport, don't be a douche, state who you are, where are you, where are you going and how you intend to achieve it, all stated clearly, calmly, without any missing piece and no unnecessary pause. When you don't tell the expected time frame between your intention to land and short final right away, it's everyone's guess how long everybody on the ground will have to wait, 2 minutes or 20 minutes..!? No wonder why some douche don't care and just line up, time is money, but in the first place, one failed to be clear and precise and you don't spot a tiny king air until it's usually too late : never expect a visual, only rely on common mental spacetime scheme. Depending on the circumstances (visibility, terrain, etc.), REVISE the stupid rule of "whoever lands has right of way". That's not ONLY how you avoid crashes. Airborne crafts can make a 360 (not all of them, but a king air or cessna, sure), a long final, hold or as a last resort go around. Like on the road, whoever got room (time and space ) to proceed first HAS right of way (providing safe margins were okay). That way, even if you have right of way and someone enters your lane 200ft away, DON'T be a douche, do what is required to ease traffic flow. The same for airplanes, if you're some 5 minutes away to land, even head on on a lined up jet ready to take off, SLOW DOWN, make a 360 or whatever to GIVE ROOM. Otherwise, the amount of lost time, headaches and administrative hassle unnecessarily rocket. The goal is not only to be safe, but also to MAKE money, avoid delays, avoid traffic jams and be EFFICIENT. Controllers are very good for that, but when you don't have one, be fair, not because you're airborne you can make everyone else wait..

Perhaps better pilot training!

Thank you for your great job keeping us safe in the air, Captain!

An MSFS airline pilot, perhaps. 😄

Thank you for the work you do. Makes us passengers feel that bit safer.

It seems both pilots have responsibility here. Legally, who had the right of way? I know aircraft on final have the right of way but cannot land on a runway that is occupied. If the airliner took the runway without knowing of the airplane on final, but then became aware of it, I think he should have held or vacated if reasonable. To initiate the takeoff run knowing there is an airplane on final even if they believe it is behind them, is wrong without clear communication with the other plane. Anyway, what is the correct procedure for this if it were to happen again?

TCAS TA’s and RA’s are inhibited on the ground. A REAL pilot would know this…

Both crews got dinged. It’s in the NTSB’s final report. “The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be: The captain's rotation of the airplane pitch before the rotation speed on takeoff due to his surprise about encountering head on landing traffic, which resulted in an exceedance of the airplane's pitch limit and a subsequent tail strike. Contributing to the accident was the flight crew's expectation bias that the incoming aircraft was landing on the same runway as they were departing from, and the conflicting traffic's nonstandard use of phraseology when making position calls on the common traffic advisory frequency.”

Landing traffic has the right of way.

"I hope you don't hit us." Just like self-righteous driver knowing they have the right of way and did nothing to avoid a collision.

@@allansaperstein4481 That's a useless comment if the pilot on the ground mistakenly thinks the landing plane is behind them.

100% wrong. The King Air was on late finals. It was the JetBlue that should not even have entered the runway, with a plane on late finals. That's why the King Air pilot is so surprised that the JB just announces he is taking off. The video even stated that the JB pilot (wrongly) thought the King Air was landing *BEHIND* him. Did you even watch the video?

Experienced a similar thing over the Atlantic. We were at cruise (maybe 33k feet), when I noticed a tiny dot in the distance. I only had enough time to think, "what's that?" Then "Oh it's another plane." before it zoomed by about 1000 ft over us perpendicular to our heading. It happened so fast there wasn't even time to be afraid that we might collide. It was all over before my thought processes even comprehended what I was observing.

​@@solandri69 This is fairly standard. On large air transport corridors traffic is seperated by 1000ft as sky lanes.

@@solandri69 Thats standard traffic separation. The OP's story is fucking nuts lol.

Wow, just a heavy wow. Such a wild thing for a kid to see.....

maybe it was actually far away and becuz ur a kid, u feel like it was really close to you. Aircraft have a TCAS system, it automatically detects and advises pilot what to do to avoid the collision

Egos

Playing "chicken" in airplanes? Irresponsible and stupid.

There is room for Eggo, though.

No air control tower = disaster waiting to happen!!!

Genius

I just watched a video that said this is going to be happening more and more because air traffic controllers are not having to be as educated as they used to be

@@spoonypoon7998 Well yeah, they're hired based on their skin color and not their actual skill.

@@spoonypoon7998 media propaganda

Why not? If pilots properly communicate on CTAF and listen, they are just fine.

Did you...watch the video? @Jetairplane that's why

@@WN_Byers Yes and it clearly shows that the near miss could have been avoided had pilots been paying attention.

Airliners operate frequently in/out of non-tower airports.

It is not an issue. The Airport is controlled, but doesn't have a tower frequency which means that aircraft will be on unicom for flight operations. On the report it was the King Air 350's fault due to them not specifying their vectors or communicating their landing intentions and not deviating for the bigger aircraft.

Apparantly, *everyone* in the comments here is an airline pilot. In MSFS, yes, they most likely are.

Agree 100 percent. Kingair could have caused a disaster.

That seems to be the FAA’s conclusion, too.

you are so correct and the king air should have gone around just aavoid any collision from occuring

@@kahmed7328well the KingAir had the right of way but maybe he was in a better position to fix jetblues mjstake. It’s hard to tell without really knowing the exact positions.

The system should not have been relied on at all, the king air called her intentions, as did the jet blue bird. One or the other should have deviated.

You, too, hope they won’t hit you

You didn’t need to list your full résumé. Just saying you were a pilot, would’ve been sufficient lol. It’s common sense that landing traffic has the right of way, since they are in the air and subject to all matter of potential emergencies.

Thank you for your detailed comment and for providing your background. Clearly this has prompted jealousy.

Right of way is for figuring out who goes first, not for blindly creating a dangerous situation. It seems the KA pilot could see what was unfolding, so regardless of JB's actions he was already in the air and had full control of how this was going to unfold. There is no excuse for him continuing to a head-on situation just because he might have been 'right'. "Unpredictable," exactly. This would make me say Ok I'll just fly around the pattern for a bit till this idiot (JB) is safely out of the area. File a NASA report, call JB operations, FSDO, whoever you want later, but don't cause a fucking crash. No excuse for this. Otherwise I agree with the rest of your comment.

@@vincentsutter1071 how would you arrive at that conclusion? All I did was state a fact. His full résumé was not necessary. If it did something for you, then I’m happy on your behalf.

Amen. I started doing the conversion thing as a result of Dan’s work.

I do the same. I work it out with others who can go first what their plans are and work myself into the flow. I have a strong policy never to takeoff into landing traffic.

I'm not sure who that is. An author that covers near misses?

@@mediocreman2 He’s an aviation RU-vidr. A retired airline pilot whose channel is devoted to reducing general aviation fatalities. He stresses the importance of having a conversation with other aircraft in the pattern rather than just giving position reports as occurred here. His channel youtube.com/@ProbableCause-DanGryder?si=k8MngfHRKa1nhGDl

JetBlue had already started their takeoff roll when KingAir reported themselves on final. 1) KingAir should have reported in earlier. 2) JetBlue should have waited a moment for a reply after announcing takeoff before rolling. 3) Once realizing JetBlue had initiated a takeoff (unsafe to abort), KingAir should have gone around instead of playing chicken.

Don't they announce what runway they're landing on, and isn't the runway identifier actually designed to specify direction, compass wise?

@@CosmicCleric Exactly. I have no idea why JetBlue thought KA was behind them when they called out runway 28.

While im sure that was a bit unnerving. That just shows the the system is working. Air traffic controllers are forced to run min separation between planes due to volume. Sometimes it just doesnt quite work and a arrival has to be sent around.

Yikes!

This happens probably 40-50 times a day in the US airline industry. Runways are used every 2 minutes for either a takeoff or a landing at some airports. Sometimes the spacing gets a little too tight and you abandon the landing. Not a big deal at all

@@tydaftpk38 Had the same thing happen on my flight landing at LAX. We were maybe 200 ft from the ground, when the engines suddenly spooled up and we banked to the right away from the airport. I was seated at a left window, and got to see another plane on the same runway just beginning to lift off. The pilot told us over the PA that the missed approach was due to "traffic." I'm guessing he played out the worst possible scenario in his head (other plane has to reject its takeoff, while we landed behind it), and decided to play it safe. Our arrival was delayed by about 25 min. But we got a nice low-altitude tour of downtown Los Angeles as we circled around.

@@tydaftpk38 over 2 million people in the air flying around in a metal tube at 37k feet doing 550 mph at any given moment. Fucking incredible.

Pilots are overworked

Tcas did its job despite these two pilots being unprofessional! Near misses have been there for over 50 years! Just more easily reported now.

O tráfego de pouso sempre prioridade.

No not really. We just have so much media now we hear everything. Near misses used to be alot more common along with collisions.

With too much confidence though.

The issue was not a fight over who had the priority!! it was a miss communication. Wrong assumptions.

@@anboobaImagine if jetBlue had just waited 5 minutes till they had a visual on the King Air or it had landed.

Although you are correct, the king air pilot wasn’t using the correct runway. They should have listened to the weather to tell them which runway would be best to use. If there’s departing traffic, that’s even better because that not only has you land in the wind, but it also increases collision avoidance.

@@HoustonGamerTVHGTV it is an uncontrolled airport. there wasn't a "right" runway

i seriously doubt they didnt hear the tail slamming into the ground and scrape along ....

Don’t worry. That was in the 80’s. There have been plenty of tailstrikes in the past and lots of accidents never happened because of bad repairs. The only accidents I can remember that was faulted from bad repairs of tailstrikes were China Airlines 611 And Japan air 123

Unfortunately, this kind of thing happens alot in the US. Both pilots are in the wrong. But the King air pilot noticed the problem and still continued. Thats where it got dangerous.

Uh, TCAS and ADS-B are two completely different things

TCAS in Ground mode wont give aural traffic alerts. Many move to an air mode at 35 knots. If JB didn't look at TCAS prior to takeoff, they would have gotten a warning during the takeoff roll. SURPRISE!

@@hortod1 You're right but most people aren't familiar with the ACAS system at utilizes ADS-B on most aircraft or at least will do so. But essentially the same concept is still relevant and most airliners are switching to ADS-B transponders. TCAS is not the right thing for me to say, my fault!

@@NuxDriver Huh that's something I didn't know! Thanks for the info

Everyone pin this. Good rule to follow.

That's also assuming that the King Air pilots were making continuous position reports and the JetBlue pilots were even on frequency when they were making them. They got their IFR release from Approach Control and then would have switched to the CTAF to make their position reports.

The FAA doesn’t agree with you.

@@SeanPat1001 Which part?

I was turning base with my instructor when a plane came onto the freq after being cleared to change frequencies (I fly in the DC SFRA, so a lot like IFR radio procedures); that plane called a final on practice approach the opposite way. We called base again and they again called "2 mile final" opposite way. They were landing with a tailwind and we were already lower and closer to the field, but my instructor said: "They're wrong, but I don't want to be dead right." We turned away and let them land. Point being here that the King Air may have been right (landing traffic before taking off traffic), but playing chicken with an A320 is just dumb.

@@ddthompson42 Which pilot was at fault.

Yes but sounds like JetBlue accepted a clearance with a 2 minute void time which is abnormally short. Got busy, not paying attention, missed several calls from the Kingair, not looking out the window or at the tcas screen until it gave an RA. Pretty easy to miss someone looking out of the window but glancing at the tcas screen is a good habit to be in when you’re about to roll onto the runway. (Other nearby planes are depicted on there and their altitudes.)

@@extraaceTCAS doesn’t give a RA that low to the ground

Tower controlled airports typically don’t allow opposite direction traffic to the same runway. The news mentioned expectation bias. When your brain hears what it expects and not what was actually transmitted. Jet blue expected the king air to be landing same direction and didn’t process the radio call. Good thing to brief at an uncontrolled field during your threat brief.

Lol Drone “Pilot”

@@TheModelGuy -- I've met drone pilots who have more skill than some regular pilots I know.

“85” years?

Are you 100 years old? Or is this a typo?

@@DrivsterHe said he's 85 years old, not that he's FLYING 85 years. You didn't understand it.

Landings and take offs almost always go the same direction. You want to land and take off INTO the wind. Only reason they would is if terrain prohibited the use of one direction?

Also the possibility of zero wind that day.

Airtransport is the safest its even been. It's clearly an isolated incident.

Why is it going to get worse? European airline travel is just as safe as in the States, and they don't have a nonsense 1500 hour limit like we do. The 1500 hour rule is not beneficial. All you're doing is forcing people to sit in the right seat and teach someone for 1200, 1300 hours. They're not actually developing better stick and rudder skills or developing better CRM or running flows. They're teaching and reteaching the same basic skills to new pilots and correcting them when they make mistakes.

@@cybersquire Seconds away of killing hundreds of innocent people certainly goes to show the safety of the airport

@@ILikeTuwtlespilot shortage, woke hiring policies and inexperience.

@@ILikeTuwtles- You don’t have a clue on this issue. It is too complicated and I don’t have time to expound at the moment, but the 1500 hour rule is minimally adequate. The problem is that up and coming in pilots seem to believe they are owed a seat in an airliner. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem isn’t that 1500 hours is too much experience to require, it’s that it doesn’t cap the amount of instructing that can be counted as part of that 1500. They need to be forced out into the real world to gain experience beyond just instructing before being admitted to the cockpit of an airliner operating under Part 121, because one simply doesn’t have the opportunity to learn a lot of basic airmanship skills when one gets to a modern Part 121 air carrier operating modern equipment.

Seems like hubris is a major factor, as well as situational awareness. Unfortunately, technology can't really compensate for those behaviors.

Technology is the reason many of these are near misses in the first place. Otherwise they'd be hits

This airport is not "unmanned", there are airport ops, ramp handlers (which can be seen in the video), etc. If the term you meant was "non-towered" , then you are wrong. Pretty much every airline (United, American, Delta, etc) operates from some airports that either have no tower, or at times when the tower is closed. It happens with thousands of flights at these major airlines every day and there are usually zero issues.

@@calcutronsmith9198They said “untowered”.

Untowered.

@@mellocello187 No, they said "JB shouldn't be operating in an unmanned airport however."

@Cueseca Agree 100%

Most planes can land with up to a 10 knot tailwind.

Maybe it was a crosswind

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this! I’m also not a fan of uncontrolled ramps, but that’s probably because I’m a ramper over in the UK.

Eh. Theres nothing inherently risky about it. These pilots just messed up

Exactly

Probably didn't even hit V1

The king air didn’t make the radio call that they were setting up for landing 28, JetBlue and all others stated they were taking off the other end of the runway. The king air should’ve turned away when JetBlue pilots correctly stated they were taking off runway 9. Why they continued the approach is dereliction of pilot duties and the king air pilots should have their licenses suspended or revoked.

Couple of things. Denver center did NOT clear JB for takeoff! JB received what’s called a clearance void time. So at uncontrolled fields we call ATC ( Center) on a different frequency to get our IFR clearance after that clearance is received center will say which runway are you going to depart and how long before ready! They prob said Number 1 ready now runway 10. Then JB received a release which will go something like this. JB … you’re released for departure clearance void if not off by ….Z time now is …Z if not off by the clearance void time call back with intentions. So JB will switch back to “CTAF” common traffic advisory frequency and state intentions to local traffic. According to this report The King air reported final for 28 after the JB called we are departing runway 10. Personally if I were the Jet blue I would’ve exited the runway and got a new clearance void time however if I were the king air would’ve gone around and gave way. My professional opinion bad “ADM” Aeronautical decision making on both parts. The King air was obviously not on an IFR flight plan because JB would’ve never been released from ATC for departure until the King Air cancelled their IFR flight plan. If there is no control Tower it’s an uncontrolled airport. The JB saying well we are taking off now after the king air states they were on final for 28. Then then king air pilot states after that “well, I hope you don’t hit us”. Really!!?? Absolutely HORRIFIC ADM on both aircraft crew members. If that’s what really happened and that was the true sequence of events. Phew, could’ve been truly a tragedy.

You said it quite simply

Uncontrolled airport means pilots have discretion on runway they use, also wind may not always be inline with the runway, could have been no wind or a direct crosswind meaning either runway was suitable. Either way JetBlue should have confirmed the KA position before take-off instead of assuming they were behind. Their mistake has damaged their aircraft and nearly caused a worse incident.

What made you say that?

Newly released report including video. duh.

Not for an A320 in Ground mode. In Ground mode there's a direct relationship between stick position and control deflection with no envelope protection to limit your pitch attitude. You can smack the tail every time. It will yell "Pitch, Pitch" at you but that's it.

@@lukegerst2382 back in my time in a tower (80s) I used to see occasional tailstrikes, but B727s had tail skids, to protect them. Used to see them parked on the tarmac with scarring.

I can't blame him. If you know of a hazard and don't know its location, you can't make an accurate safety plan. At that point, if you take off anyway you may as well be blindfolded

good thing we have plenty of diversity in the Air Traffic Control Tower

There is a solution - follow the rules already in place and they would have been fine and realized what was going on before it got this far

Wind speed might have been zero, in which case there's no preferred direction except what's agreed upon by pilots using the airfield.

And, why do we keep asking these types of questions when this should be standardized for EVERY airport GLOBALLY?

For 3, there are plenty of these CTAF airports, not sure how they are allowed by the FAA

Does she take-off?