Viewer request: 7016 welding rods 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Considering how well they seem to perform in my short testing, I definitely think they would work for a ton of jobs. The easier restarts could come in handy too.

Which welding supply? I’ve used TW Smith for welding and nitrogen for my lab since 1983, though we sold the lab back in 2004. I still use them for welding supplies and gas.

Hmm, I usually use 7014. It re-strikes so much more easily than 7018. Never tried 7016

Yep, 7016 is good in my book 😀

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Oops, I forgot to ask about cut&etch, maybe it will be possible to do it sometime in the future?

Yep, I will cut and etch it next time I am at the shop. I got hit with a wicked cold so I am a bit behind. You will see in within a couple weeks for sure 😀

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Ouch, please take good care of yourself! I heard that new COVID variants could bump you off the tracks for weeks easily, it better be old-fashioned flu or something 😃 Many thanks in advance!

Thanks. It’s a far better option to me than 7014. It mostly solves the hard to start issue and the puddle is really easy to see. It definitely is more prone to underfill compared to 7018, but even that isn’t bad.

It definitely is what I had hoped it would be. Once it gets a bit colder out I am going to be chilling down some test welds and breaking them to see if it has good cold weather performance. 7018 is well known to perform well below zero, it will be interesting to see how well 7016 does.

I have never seen the spiced one here, only normal and diet. It’s good stuff 😀

Great tip and thoughts. I have 7015 on my list of rods to get. I should have some before the end of the year to test 😀

I wish it was more common here in the states, I think the 7016 would be really popular. It definitely is strong and welds great.

No problem. If it’s a option it makes strong welds and definitely is easier to run than 7018. The only thing I am unsure over is how well is sub zero performance is, which is something many 7018s are tested for. I would definitely use 7016 over 6010/11/13 and 7014 for anything requiring strength.

Yeah these definitely had a flux close to 7018. The weld puddle looked identical to a 7018 (maybe even more defined) but it definitely deposits less metal. They smelled different and didn’t have the glass ball on the end of the rod so they are definitely different than any 7018 I have ran.

Nice. Does yours produce similar slag? I have had a few people mention some 7016s produce a brown slag with a different appearance than the 7016s I ran.

Upperside of the slag is greyish-black, lower side glassy-black. Chips off quite good, but the smoke from the (cellulosic? or/and Titania?) componenet I believe, is a pain finishing out for paint without wirewheel. I use oerlikon spezial" because a lot cheaper than the "boehler special D" here. 😂

Ah, and I forgot: when searching for this particular elektrodes on european Market, they are always (mostly) called "spezial" the name "7016" is not too common here. And "oerlikon" is a daughter of "Lincoln Electric" now, baybe this helps with importing/buyin in the States.

I will find some of those to test 😀

Thanks, I appreciate it. I try to include as much info that’s relevant and explain it in a way that’s clear. I won’t lie, some times it’s pretty hard because of how complicated certain things are. I am just glad to be able to share some ideas to help people out 😀

Yes, no doubt the restarts are far easier than 7018 and the weld strength is on par with it in my testing. Without question it’s stronger than 7014. I bet it runs out of position better as well, probably better than 7018 too. So far a bunch of people have mentioned the same difference in the slag. My choices for rods on eBay were pretty limited so I had to pick from what I could get.

7016 definitely seems to be a solid rod. I will be trying it out on some uphill welds soon, but I have a feeling they will be slightly easier than 7018 to weld uphill. The fact they don’t build a glass ball on the end like 7018 really is helpful for restarts. For the few rods I have run I give it a thumbs up.

That’s a sad situation. Without a doubt they would have served a better purpose to be given away than thrown out :(

That’s a pretty small population, the city I live in is 1.5 million in the larger “county”. They make my favorite ginger beer 😀. The 7016 rods are also good as well, you guys are on to something.

If I ever make it over to Australia I will definitely be checking out Bundaberg 😀.

Thanks for sharing that info. So I looked into the 7016 vs 7018 testing specs and it has massively higher (double) the strength on low temp charpy v-notch testing over standard 7018. It has better elongation but slightly less tensile strength than 7018. Based on what I am seeing 7016, I bet it would take impact forces far better than 7018. I have a feeling 7018 is preferred due to slightly higher deposition rates and being slightly easier to avoid undercut. Honestly I like 7016, I will have to use it for a project or two 😀.

Thanks for the info, I have seen those lb-52 when I was trying to find 7016 and passed them up.

Thanks for the info. It definitely seems to deposit less metal than a 7018. For a root pass the quantity of metal is far less important than having a defect free pass. To me (with the rod and a half I ran lol) it seems to solidify faster than 7018. Running 7018 on anything with a gap is not really ideal for me. I think the 7016s slightly less metal deposition and slightly faster puddle freeze would make it far more controllable.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg it does have a bit of a stiffness to it if you compare it with a 7018 . It doesnt tend to droop down as much if you weld it out of position . But it is harder for me to run 7016 on an open root pipe than 6010 downhill . It is less forgiving need to keep close arc or else you get porosity , welds slower , needs longer feathering ramps on start and stops , need to grind the crater out when you stop except when you tie in at a stop , and fit up needs to be nearly a 100% spot on or else it is a struggle, and it welds like 3 inches max . A remote controle makes it very handable .grt

So I can give you a lot of my thoughts and opinions on that. Quenching welds will affect the solidifying grain structure of the weld, and will likely cause the weld to become brittle. When quenching in oil the effect is different than water. Oil doesn’t evaporate like water, and it’s a poorer conductor of heat than water, which means that hot metal dipped in oil will cool slower than water. When dealing with heat hardenable alloys (like knife steel) by quenching in oil you are able to increase its hardness to a level that is acceptable. Air cooling would result in softer, more flexible material, water would cause super hard material, oil is slow enough to bridge the gap between water and air. I will do a video on the effects of this in the near future. My opinion is quenching in water should only be done during practice to speed things up, but never on anything that needs strength. You are adding a unpredictable variable into something that doesn’t need any more of them lol.

I am surprised it’s not offered at stores here, I think the average person would be far better off with it over 7018 without a doubt.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg Yeah, I agree with that but you know, I can't figure out why 6013 is so popular (and overused - even when people really shouldn't) here. Probably some culture thing, you stick (no pun) with what you know and all that.

@@SjoerdErik. To me 6013 takes more skill to run on a fillet weld than 7018, it causes more weld defects (slag inclusions) has worse penetration, and is far weaker than 7016 and 7018. It’s good to learn on flat plate (easy arc starts) and sheet metal it’s good on. Beyond that i don’t see many practical applications.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I agree with that, mostly. I went to lower technical school here in the second half of the 1980's and they let us burn a bunch until we had starting and restarting as well as making a decent bead down " well enough" before moving on to the 70 series, which were a lot more fun to work with and that kinda stuck with me. That said, I taught the kid next door the basics last year, all of 13, and he had no trouble running 70 series. First time go. I think it's really what you're used to that sets the benchmark so, learning on 6013 may have been an "easier arc" issue with AC transformers, but nowadays, with plenty of very nice, very affordable inverters with hot start and air force and anti stick and all that goodness, I really don't see the point in learning with 6013. Not even to mention the entry level "good" inverters, those are just on a different level compared to what I, and I suppose you as well, learned on.

When I searched everything I could find that could get it to me fast was Australia. That’s the thing with eBay, every day sellers and listings change, so I went with the fastest I could get. It wasn’t overly expensive, other than shipping lol. In the future when I am not under such a time crunch I will be able to get a far better deal lol. Interesting info on iron powder contributing towards arc blow. Makes sense to me. The benefit of that iron powder is obviously the deposition rates. On a root pass I prefer lower deposition rates and a smaller weld, it’s more controllable. 7016 seems to be really good for that. I will be doing further testing to see how well it fairs in penetration vs 7018.

So my understanding is they are different. Ginger beer is actually brewed and the alcohol is removed. Ginger ale is normally club soda mixed with ginger root, but It can be fermented (I just don’t know if a ginger ale that actually is fermented). From a taste perspective ginger beer tends to have more flavor, or atleast a stronger flavor. It also tends to be less carbonated.

they won't do cast iron, maybe cast steel ,but I would not bet on it. try some and see. I only use cast 60 or cast 90 rods on cast iron , 60% nickel/90% nickel , depends on the cast type. alway check it out with the rod manufactor.

My machine does have a built in Hot Start, but it is not documented, and I had to use a Clamp-On amp meter with a Min-Max feature to discover it in fact was boosting the current set point by about 50% e.g. if I have 100 amps set on the welder, the clamp on amp meter Max showed it went to about 150 amps for a second before it settled back down to 100 amps I had dialed in. It is fast, so you need to have the ability to capture the Peak amps. An alternate method if you don’t have a DC amp meter, is to have someone video the welders display of running amps while you strike the arc. Please be sure the person doing the video has the appropriate PPE eyes and flying sparks. As a side note, I recently had to contact Tech Support for my welder, and I talked to a very knowledgeable tech who confirmed my machine in fact had Hot Start, and a Dig function, both of which were undocumented. So perhaps a call to a service person would help too. Greg, will be able to give you some great suggestions on how to get around the cold start issue. I know he has given me plenty of good suggestions on a wide variety of my welding questions. He is very good at helping others.

If you don’t have a hot start feature it can be difficult to solve the issue of weaker penetration. Many machines have some form built in like Michael said. If you don’t have adjustable hot start you will have to deal with slightly poorer penetration at the start of a weld. It’s more noticeable on the 3/8th steel, on 1/4 and under it will be less of a concern. To get around this issue in the real world, high liability type jobs, they have strips of metal called start strips/run off tabs. Basically you start your weld off of what you’re welding and end it off of it too. Doing such things eliminates issues associated with starts and stops because they are not left on the weldment but removed. Realistically as long as your bead is decent it wouldn’t be a huge issue to be honest.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg thank you so much for the response.

No problem 😀

We only have the original and the sugar free version here. I have been sharing them with friends and a bunch of them are drinking it now lol. So good 😀

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I recall them saying they were trying to break into overseas markets. Especially the US. Good to see Oz exporting products other than rocks...

So the crack you heard was the plate shifting. Due to how everything moves as it bends either the plate moves smoothly as it’s pressed or sometimes it jerks. This is due to the plate slightly digging in and just the nature of everything bending. To help with this I am going to make a AR500 plate to bend things on (it won’t be able to gouge into it) and make sure things are lubticated better. Thanks for the kind words too. I am just happy to be part of helping people out learning to build skills 😃.

I am going to try to get my hands on 7015 too. Without a doubt 7016 deposits less metal. I went a bit too fast in the first fillet weld and luckily realized I needed to slow down more than I was used to Inorder to avoid underfill. Once I slowed down it put a nice weld down, just a pinch smaller than 7018. I think a lot of people would like 7016 because of the easier restarts.

The 7016 looks just like a 7018, as soon as I lit up the rod and moved it’s the exact same visible eye shape. 7014 and 7024 don’t have that shape at all, it’s basically muddy. To me the only thing noticeably different is the normal 7018 travel speed will likely leave a pinch of under-fill, no doubt it deposits less metal. Once I slowed down it cleaned right up. I have a feeling it would be much more prone to undercut on vertical up, but I will have to test that to know for sure.

6013 is very commonly used as a root pass rod in a lot of the world, they don’t use 6011 or 6010. The thing I didn’t know about (but have found out in the last year) is that there are completely different flux compositions to 6013 in other countries. So their 6013 runs different than what is common here. In many ways we do that with our 6010, having multiple versions of it with different arc characteristics.

So couple thoughts on that. Most non low hydrogen rods (like 6010/6011 especially) have a ton of moisture in the flux, and they are made that way. By baking many non low hydrogen rods out, their flux will disintegrate/fall off. There is actually a easier way to test this, which is keeping a 7018 submerged in water for a day or two, then wiping the water off it. I am doing just that for a video that should be out in a couple days. If hydrogen is the root cause of the failures a wet 7018 should fail. At this point it’s going to come down to either hydrogen is playing a role in the failures of 7014 and 7024 but 7016 and 7018 are fine, or it’s a issue of the weld strength. Interestingly enough the specifications of 7024 and 7014 aren’t that much different than 7018, so it’s hard to say why 7018 and 7016 have no issue handling more load than 7014/24. More testing will hopefully shed some light on this.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I mean to bake the weldments after they are welded. Not baking the rods themselves. I can see I wasn't clear enough in my post.

I'm just guessing but as I understand it, when banking the weldment, hydrogen has just done it's "job" and embrittlement has just happened. So banking the "bubbles" out would have no effect (since they would diffuser out anyways). Heatthreating is supposed to change the austhenite-martensite structure on steel that can be hardened - what mild steel isn't. Nevertheless it would be interresting if heatcyceling would effect the whole grainstructure but I doubt that 400°F would have an effect on that.

Baking the weldment won’t change anything after a weld is done. The hydrogen has already caused damage (if the material is susceptible) as it is driven out and away from the weld and into the heat affected zone/toes of the weld. On pipe in some cases they use a heat source (typically induction heater wrap) to keep the temps high enough at the start to lower the hydrogen per pass (aka no buildup between passes). Without it you could be 3-4 passes deep and having hydrogen out of the first 3-4 passes combine with the hydrogen in the weld pool you’re working on, which would be a serious problem for higher strength steel. It’s most important to keep the metal hot enough to prevent fast quenching of the molten pool than after weld heating. This is also far more practical on pipe than higher strength steel on say a tractor.

​@@makingmistakeswithgreg thx

I bet they would run really good at that value, due to depositing slightly less metal than a 7018. I definitely like them so far 😀

Thanks for the tips and you’re one of a few people to mention the same thing about the slag. There weren’t many to pick from on eBay so I went with what I could get lol. I like the rod a lot, it will make a reappearance in the future for sure.

Definitely seems to be a good rod. As long as you move slow and steady it lays down real nice. It’s strong too, definitely would be a top choice for me for anything requiring strength.

Interesting that they have that, the local stores to me gave me the run around on it. I have never seen 7016 on a job site or on the shelf anywhere. They run well enough that I would likely use them in place of 7018 for some jobs. I actually bought a 20lb box of them for a future video. I will also use them to help some people out that want to learn 7018. It has a similar puddle but is far easier to start.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I could get some, but like you said, the minimum order quantity is quite a bit, I've only used up maybe 1/2 of a 5# box of 7018 so far haha. So I have no idea what I would do with 2-3 cans of 7016.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg If you ever need a bigger generator, check out this beast I installed at a friends house a couple of years ago on my channel: watch?v=wW5qAJh3aUk It can run both kitchens, 3 A/C units and a 20x40' in ground heated and lighted swimming pool and about 100 exterior landscape lights all at once :)

Those were what I tried to find first. I will have to try to find some still 👍

Definitely will have to find some 😀

I have never heard of 6019, I will have to look that up. What’s it run like? I am kind of upset 7016 isn’t commonly available in the states. It runs good and is strong too. Definitely a solid option.

I like to say it's mid-way between 6010 and 6013. A pretty bead like 6013, but better penetration, the slag pool doesn't try to overrun rod, so you can see the actual weld pool. A little more violent. Doesn't have the dig that 6010 does, but way smoother and doesn't require a whip-and-pause. Awesome overhead rod. No hydrogen production and has excellent crack resistance. The Kobelco B17 rods I use are general structural rod for plate up to 20mm. 61,000psi yield and 68,000psi tensile, 26% elongation. It's possible for them to get "damp," but unlike must lo-hy rods, drying is only 70°C-100°C for 30 to 60 minutes. I'll send you some Kobelco B14 and B17 (both E6019) if you want to test. okinawaironworks on the google mail.

Ginger beer is made from fermented ginger and sugar, but they remove the alcohol. It’s similar to ginger ale but less syrupy and stronger flavor. Ginger ale is commonly carbonated water/white soda with ginger root syrup added. I believe real ginger ale exists (fermented beverage) but it’s not the stuff most places carry 😀

Ginger beer is what you mix with rum or bourbon to make a dark and stormy

Everything moves towards efficiency, or we’ll what I call “evolution”. Part of evolution is a million failed experiments. With welding rods far more rods have existed than what are common today. At some point it doesn’t make sense to have say 12 common rods to weld with for one type of material. In the USA to a certain extent it makes sense to have 6010, 6011,6013,7014,7018, and 7024 as common steel rods. 6010 it good at poor fitups and deep penetration for a first pass. 6011 works like a smooth 6010, and works great on thin to medium thickness materials with poor fitup. 6013 is a great sheet metal rod and produces a smooth bead. 7014 works great for sheet metal to maybe 3/16th, and produces a smooth bead with higher strength than 60 series rods. 7018 works great for anything requiring strength. 7024 is great for putting a lot of metal down with a wide and flat bead. The interesting thing is why those particular rods were chosen. 7018 vs 7016 could be a case of 7018 had better performance for a specific task (say a particular type of steel) or maybe it has better performance for lower temps, impact toughness, ability to handle vibratory stress, etc. Based on my very limited testing I like the way 7016 runs, and once I slowed down realizing it deposits less metal than 7018, it welds great. Many people have said the rod I have ran a bit different than many 7016s do, and that the slag is hard to remove on many 7016s. If that’s the case I can see why 7018 would be picked over 7016, more metal deposited plus faster cleanup between passes, equals more done in a specific time. From a standpoint of ease of welding I think America could benefit from 7016 because it’s easier to start/restart than 7018, and it’s clearly stronger than 7014. I personally use 7018 and 6010 for almost everything, (I dabble in 6011 for thinner steel with poor fitup and 7024 for flat welds or buildup jobs). Other countries often chose different rods and it was likely because of the particular steel or materials used and what rods met the testing requirements needed.

@@makingmistakeswithgreg I think you should do the documentary on why 7016's aren't available/widely used in this country --Ken Burns would be proud! 🙂 Great thoughts and information as usual. Thanks!

I picked up a couple more to try, didn’t see that brand. I will look for them next time. I definitely like the 7016 rods.

I have heard guys do that, I will have to give that a shot.

Thanks for the thoughts and that makes sense. I know it’s common here to use inductance heating to keep the pipe hot enough to push the hydrogen out of the weld zone where it can cause issues. Having tested 6010 myself the amount of visible hydrogen escaping the weld is on par with a 7018 that was literally soaking in water for a day. Seems like a variable that if you could just eliminate it from being present rather trying to add additional measures like heat to get it to escape, it would be far smarter. 5/32 and bigger 6010s can definitely move fast with high deposition. Obviously speed becomes less of a benefit if it’s not lasting lol.

That was my understanding. I am Canadian and we never see 7016, but I thought it was the go to for open root in the US pipeline industry.