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Viking Music and Issues of Genre - An Ethnomusicologist's Perspective 

The Nordic Sound with Jameson Foster
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***
Do musicians get the final say in what their music is called, and is genre meant to be a literal descriptor of the music we hear?
In the 3 years I’ve been running this channel, covering the music of Wardruna, Heilung, and almost everything in that sphere, I have had endless conversation over what to call this music with many alternatives offered for the sake of “anything but Viking music”. Dark folk, pagan folk, nordic folk (the worst option for reasons obvious to traditional musicians), heathen folk, new nordic folk… and even the major artists themselves have been outwardly disassociating from the level. But why don’t any of the alternatives stick instead of Viking music?
Join me in this conversation about the contentious yet seductive nature of the Viking music phenomenon from the perspective of an ethnomusicologist. Questions here are posed around the nature of genre, the binding themes of this music scene, artist and audience perspectives, and whether or not any of this is about historical accuracy at all, and if that matters to the ultimate enduring label of Viking music.
Or, can we not change how we talk about Viking music at all before we change how we talk about the Viking age itself?
My ultimate hope is that questions brought up in this video start some needed conversations to be carried on as this genre continues to grow, instead of continuing the trend of dancing around the subject as we run on the euphemism treadmill. Because remember, I don’t have the answers, only the questions. The answers are what we as a community make them to be.
Thank you for watching.
-Jamo

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4 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 20   
@MrFair
@MrFair 3 месяца назад
You raise some very interesting points! I haven't seen these discussed before. My comments on your points: 1) "Genre names are abstract" That is a valid point and in general, I agree with you. But for this specific topic, it does not convice me. Unlike the other genres you mention, the term "Viking Music" already had an obvious meaning: The music of the Vikings. This is similar to what has happened with the term "mediaval music". Here in Germany and other Central European countries, it has lost its meaning of "Music from the Mediaval Ages". You mention "mediaval markets" yourself in the video. These markets and the connected music scene have very little to do with actual mediaval music or culture. It is Fantasy (before someone comments on this: Yes, I am aware that there are some people that do try to portrait the mediaval times as authentically as possible. But these reenactors are the minority - and this demand for authenticity almost always ends at the music stages). I don't want to say these markets or this music is bad - quite the opposite. I very much like them and listening to this type of music. However, they have become so popular that the average person thinks that this is how the mediaval times were and how mediaval music sounded. Which, I think, is a pity. Because actual historic mediaval music is different. And extremely beautiful. But since the term "mediaval music" was "occupied" by this scene, people don't even realize that what they know is not historical and that there is something else. Most people here actually think all kinds of folk music are mediaval music. Because these markets are the only place were they come in contact with folk music. The same is happening with viking music - although this argument is of course much weaker, because there is so little knowledge about actual viking music compared to mediaval music. But still, I think that is a bummer and a loss. 2) "Musicians usually don't get to define the genre name" True. I also think the threshold has been crossed here long ago. It's in the hands of the listeners now, not of the musicians. But I do think that the musicians in this scene have played a vital role in this happening. Sure, many do say in interviews that their music is not actually historical correct/informed if they are asked for it. But what does saying that even mean if you constantly behave contrary to your statements and "flirt" with the image of being "viking"? For example, by performing with anachronistic instruments, techniques and style at Viking museums? (although the question can also be asked why these museums book these acts - answer is of course obvious: because they draw crowds ;) ) Or agree to be featured in TV shows, videogames etc. that clearly want to give the impression that they are about the vikings? Or by copying the visual language and style of the TV show "Vikings"? Or by outright describing your music as being from the "viking period": "Heilung is sounds from the northern european iron age and viking period" (taken straight from the officialdescription of the album "Ofnir" on their Bandcamp page - similar things can be found in other Heilung presstexts). Seeing all of this, I personally am a bit tired of the argument "the musicians never wanted this term and have not claimed it for themselves". The term "viking music" for this style did not appear out of a vacuum. It arose because of the actions of the bands that formed this style. They - very obviously - do want this term. Now, is this bad? Or does this mean that the musicians are bad people or that the music is bad? No. Absolutely not. Or at least depends on your intentions. Still, it is a bit sad, I think, that the term "viking music" has been overtaken by something else. And to me, that is at least disingenuous. 3) "Finding another name" I personally don't agree that genre names have to be exciting, because most genre names are boring. But as I already said, I do think that it's too late to change the term. From that perspective, it makes sense to just keep using "Viking music". Because people know what you mean. Just like with the term "Mediaval music" here in Germany. To be honest, I'm not sure how negative all of this really is - and discussing the potential effects of this is a whole other topic. But I do think it is a bit sad that it changes the perception of history for the general public. But this has happened before and will happen again and again. It's also happening with the term "Pirate Music". I thought the discussion of Matthias Nordvigs perspective at the end was very interesting. I have not encountered this argument before, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Hope you'll dig deeper into this at some point, I would love to hear more of your thoughts on it!
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 3 месяца назад
I'm pinning your comment because not only did you bring a lot of interesting and valuable thoughts to the table, but in doing so you also covered some stuff I wish I had given more time to in this video but didn't to avoid getting too deep into the weeds. Thank you for taking the time to write this all out - it's actually quite the complement to illicit such a response from someone :) I want to respond more directly to your medieval music comment: I also wish more folks would give real medieval music a listen. I have some Ensemble Obsidienne and related groups on replay during the winter months. Medieval music is my favorite era to cover when I teach music appreciation here at CU
@MrFair
@MrFair 3 месяца назад
@@nordicsoundchannel I really liked your video and felt like you're a person that's actually interested in the thoughts of his viewers, so I felt inclined to take the time to write it down. I hope it didn't come over as hostile, because that wasn't my intention. Just wanted to share my thoughts on your points - which honestly were new to me in this topic and are an interesting perspective! I don't know Ensemble Obsidienne, but will give them a listen, thanks!
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 3 месяца назад
Didn’t feel an ounce of hostility friend - and you’re hunch was correct, I love having conversation ✌🏻
@ELDRIMmusic
@ELDRIMmusic 5 месяцев назад
You find the words, my friend!
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
That's quite the stamp of approval coming from you my friend 😄
@secretarchivesofthevatican
@secretarchivesofthevatican 5 месяцев назад
Interesting! We struggle with this with some of our releases. We grudgingly use some of the terminology but whenever we discuss our music on social media we try to make the point that we're not historical re-enactors, we make modern music that has some medieval and pre-medieval influences and roots. Which is, indeed, what Einar Selvik and others say too. It's pretty much what Farya Faraji says too. He says he loves the music but his issue is with a section of the fans (rather than musicians) who think they're seeing history. Your take on the use of Viking Music as a genre name is interesting. We will think upon it!
@D_Halvig
@D_Halvig 5 месяцев назад
The term “Viking music” has made me cringe from the start. Honestly though, you make some solid points here. You’ve changed my mind about the genre name. Like you said, I think the way the Viking age has been framed has a lot to do with how we feel about the term “Viking music”. So ultimately, is it the name of the genre that we cringe at or is it how the Viking age has been perceived in modern culture?
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
I think you worded that last question perfectly 😉
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
Thank you for watching - don't forget to click the *like* button if you want to help the channel grow and reach more people. With that business out of the way... I would love to hear what from this video resonated with you and what you'd like to talk more about. I was only able to scratch the surface on some beefy topics introduced here.
@c.a.t.732
@c.a.t.732 5 месяцев назад
To me the real issue is the fact that the vast majority of people living during the "Viking Age" weren't vikings... they were farmers, fishermen, traders, craftsmen, merchants, etc., and I suspect the musicians of that time mostly came from those members of the society. Necessarily equating using the runes, chanting the Voluspa, practicing Norse shamanism, or creating music inspired by ancient Nordic cultures with the vikings per se seems odd.
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
And that’s the exact premise of recent critiques such as Nordvig’s on the Viking age in general :)
@c.a.t.732
@c.a.t.732 5 месяцев назад
@@nordicsoundchannel I left my comment just prior to the 17:30 mark, where you address my point exactly. Oops! Should have watched to the end before commenting! Thank you for addressing that point.
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
@c.a.t.732 no I’m glad you actually brought attention to that really important point in the comments in case anyone else has that same thought! :)
@therideinmidgard
@therideinmidgard 4 месяца назад
I always thought of this music as nordic tribal folk music but I guess many musical artists in the genre are not Nordic or playing nordic style so...
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 4 месяца назад
There are some notable issues with "tribal folk" because a) there's no tribal social dynamic within or between the groups making this music and b) the contemporary use of "tribal" gets wrapped up in weird colonial and primitivist ideologies that we don't really benefit from bringing into the scene in any way. Then again, you can call it whatever you want depending on your point of view, that's just why I personally think tribal folk would be thorny and clumsy.
@ebestul84
@ebestul84 5 месяцев назад
(Insert standing slow clap here)
@nordicsoundchannel
@nordicsoundchannel 5 месяцев назад
Thanks for the chuckle 🤣
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