Vocational Training in Germany | Would it FAIL in the USA? 

I came to Germany from the states in the 90s to study (because HEY! free tuition!) with the ultimate goal of working in the event industry. I found out that my skill-set was much better suited to vocational training, so I switched from the Uni to an apprenticeship and certified after two and a half years (I as well opted to shorten my apprenticeship) as an electrician. Fast foward - I did my Meister in Event Lighting (Meister der Veranstaltungstechnik) and now work as Technical Director in a civic hall, where I have my own apprentices. Not bad for a "college drop-out"!

I think the biggest difference between the US and Germany is the way they look at the students themselves. In the USA, the student is a customer to whom educational institutions sell the product "education" dearly. In Germany, the student is an investment in the future. The state and business put money into their hands to give students the opportunity to become well-paid workers and taxpayers. Transferring the German system to the USA one-to-one would be very difficult. Getting Americans to do things that are quintessentially un-American isn't even the biggest problem. You would have to get all American states to set educational standards together and for the whole USA. You would have to get American business to put money and people into the program, and you would have to strengthen American unions. Have fun!😱

Germany also provides something that is called "the 3rd education track". (brace yourself, this gets messy). I have been first to "Hauptschule", cause my Mom didnt care fore the selection process in the first place. However, at the end of the Hauptschule I wanted to go on to Realschule. That is possible and its called "the special 10th grade". This was even a specialized Economic School "Wirtschaftsschule" that is placed on the level of a Realschule. After successfully finishing it, I did an apprentice ship in a Bank. Cause i have been to a Wirtschaftsschule I was even considered like someone who had Abitur from the Gymansium cause my economic knowledge was so enhanced compared to the general Realschule. For the record, my math was very bad cause of that, cause i only had financial math and bookkeeping. Well, I finished the apprenticeship and then the 3rd education track was open to me. There is something called "Berufsoberschule" (vocational highschool). You could do there the 12th and 13th grade. (meaning the apprenticeship counted as the 11th grade). With the 12th grade, which i did, you have a specialized titel to go to university of applied sciences. With the 13th grade and a 2nd foreign language you can have the general Abitur and study even medicine ... So I did the 12th grade cause i knew I wanted to do "informationsystems and management" (Wirtschaftsinformatik), which is a mix of business and IT. At the time it was only available at the university of applied sciences (or the military which i ruled out). So I went from the lowest possible school to a university degree with a bachelor. I could have done a master as well, but started work instead. Going from a bank apprentice to work in marketing IT nowadays. I had all chances even afterwards. I took it. to be fair I dont know if many people do this route. but the German government made it possible. probably the best thing they did in a minute.

I know a lot of my fellow Germans see the distinction between the Gymnasium, Real- and Haupt-/Mittelschule in the intellectual achievements of the students or their potential for that. I think however that this is a real problem, and we should put more emphasis on calling them schools for different types of skillsets. Not sure, if i could make my message clear so let's give an example: A lot of Germans think the intelligence of a child is the metric after which you should choose the secondary education. But as you can guess no mom or dad would like to admit that their child is less intelligent than other children, so they all try to send their kids to the Gymnasium. This can result in severe pressure in children. If, however, you said that the schools are for different skill sets, nobody would need to be ashamed. A highly skilled craftsman isn't held in less regard than a skilled administrative worker or an engineer.

Ich denke Ihr Punkt mit dem Respekt vor der Leistung jedes Arbeitenden und seiner Ausbildung ist von extremer Wichtigkeit. Ich selbst bin promovierter Mathematiker, mein Sohn hat nach dem Abitur "Elektriker "gelernt. Wir haben zeitweise in der gleichen Firma gearbeitet; er im technischen Kundendienst, ich in Vertrieb und Marketing. Seine Leistung wurde so anerkannt, dass man ihn kurz nach Ende seiner Ausbildung zur "Sammlung von Erfahrungen" ins Ausland geschickt hat. Ich bin mächtig solz darauf, was er geschafft hat und ziehe den Hut vor seiner Leistung.

Actually, when you've finished your apprenticeship and trade school in Germany, after a few years, sometimes even directly after successfully finishing it, you can attend another year of vocational training (mostly about one year) and get the title of a Master, Technician, Business Economist, or something like that of your trade and which is officially regarded as the same educational level as a university's Bachelor degree - and provides you the permit to further educate yourself at an university.

I'm from Slovenia and I studied Turism in a vocational highschool. It was great:) A lot less maths and we learned three languages. You really can study anything, not just how to be a plumber or a carpenter. You can even study something like flower arrangment or being a chef or a waiter. It's great and you can still change your mind and go to university if you want.

Couple of things I can contribute to this topic from a german perspective: - The "stigma" of not achieving your Abitur and going to University is actually growing in Germany too. We actually have a problem with to many people trying to go to Gymnasium and then the university, regardless of their actual "intellectual capacity" or skill in trade job fields. Our Handelskammern are complainig for years that they get less and less trainees each year. - While it is possible to change ways from university to vocational training and the other way around there is still a stigma attached to it. Mainly the "downgrade". Maybe mainly among the HR people or it's just a german (work) culture thing, but you tend to be looked at strange it you don't finish what you started. I made my Abitur, went to University, noticed that it wasn't really for me after 1 1/2 years and started to apply for my Ausbildung. One of the biggest problems, all the HR people actually had in my job interviews, was mostly this "stain" on my résumé. - While it is correct that many people stay with their training company in the long term, there is also the other side of the coin: The companies and colleagues sometimes keep treating people as if they're still trainees even after they finished their training. One of the most heard advices I got while beeing a trainee was basically "finish your training, then change the company and start fresh". Can't say it was wrong either, because exatly that happened to me. After I changed the company the problem immediately vanished in the new company because everybody there just knew I had the same Ausbildung as them, so I should know what I was doing and was their equal. Have been working there ever since.

A big problem in North America is how apprentices go through their apprenticeship. I am from Germany, had my electrical 3 1/2 year apprenticeship and worked until the age of 29 as a journeyman in Germany. We then immigrated to Canada. Here I was on a fast track... very much thanks to my german education in my apprenticeship and the way it has been done. After 2 years foreman/supervisor, another 3 years later Project Manager for huge projects. In my talks with canadian apprentices, and I think the US system is very similar, I learned how it is structured. You accumulate hours on the job and have your x-weeks of school block for each apprentice year (which is a problem in itself, since it is one theory-learning-block and not mixed with the onsite experience in a weekly fashion of that apprentice year). A lot of North American-apprentices take their sweet time because they are focusing on the mighty dollar and hours and delay the school blocks. I met some third year apprentices that were third years for 4 years already. Because they like the money of the third year salary but do not want to take on the responsibilities of a journeyman. You cannot delay your apprenticeship like that in Germany. It is one year after the other... no delaying (except if you are sick or similar life events and then there are some exceptions. But in general a 3 1/2 year apprenticeship takes that time exactly (if finals are passed. If not, 1/2 year gets added until you are eligible for the next exam.) Now in regards to the North American quality of electrical apprenticeship... lets say it was lacking a lot of detail and I saw the school-blocks. In Germany I even had antenna networking, Programmable Logic Controlling and much more in my apprenticeship as an electrician. So vast mix of the whole field on top of the purely electrical education. And don't even get me started on how they teach fault finding (ground fault, shorts, etc.) in North America. Most apprentices I had on my sites lacked the education to visualize the electrical circuit in their mind to find the fault... and it is not their fault. It is the fault of their employer and schools. They always thanked me loads for taking the time for explaining how to figure it out. Which was really sad, since that should be normal in your apprenticeship.

I took full advantage of the German system and the "jumping around" possibility. After the Realschule I didn't want to go to school anymore, so I learned a trade job for 3.5 years. 3.5 days training on the job, 1.5 days in school per week. I made my own money, which was like 450€ / Month in 2008, and I didn't have to sit in a classroom all day. After I was finished, I then went to a university and studied, but in a completely different topic and am now working in some kind of hybrid job where my knowledge of my trade apprenticeship really pays of. I think for it to work in the US, the mentality of: "Every one has to attend collage" has to go away first. The rest will follow if the demand for more vocational and on the job training will increase. Children in Schools need to have the possibility to test out trade jobs. Either in a mandatory course or via volunteering on afternoon courses, so they see that trade jobs can be fun and exiting, and also something that is highly needed. They need to know that you can get more money in a trade job, if the demand is there, than in a job as a college dropout, where you can't show anything to your new employer. Also, by learning a trade job, most of the time you earn money earlier and then keep it, since you don't have to pay back a huge student loan. An important message for me personally was: "Your carrier doesn't need to be a straight line. No ones stops you to still go to university after you learned a trade job. Or the other way around. And not even in the same field."

Your channel has been crucial in my decision to move my family from America to Germany, and I'm sure it will continue to be a great resource for me. I am sad that my country has ended up where it is, in just a couple of generations, but I worry for my kids futures. I think we are going to start planning our move..

Small note: It's ABITUR (without the 'R' between 'A' and 'B) from the Latin word "abire" which means "to go away", "to leave" or similar. You are truly to be congratulated on your selection of professional craftsmen. The experience I made over the last year was somewhat mixed with the bottom line being that many young people simply don't have passion for their job and thus don't really care how they do things. Speaking with several of the owners of those businesses, they have real challenges finding good apprentices, let alone keeping them in the company as serving an apprenticeship seems to go out of fashion these days. Needless to say, attending a university is not for everyone either, but the changes in the school system have made it easier over the years to at least have the formal qualification for that - which still doesn't turn lower-achieving students into higher-achieving ones. In other words: A low performance today will falsely allow you to still go on to university, reducing the number of apprentices and increasing the number of inapt students. Not sure how that makes sense ...

I went the "traditional" way first, Gymnasium, Uni (to become a teacher). Crunched some numbers and decided that the money I would be earning as a teacher would not be worth spending so much time at uni so I dropped out, did vocational training and Meister in less time than uni would have taken me. And the salary and job chances are better. Handwerk hat goldenen Boden.

So for my educational path, I went to Gymnasium and after my Abitur, I wasn't really sure what to do next. Therefore I applied for an apprenticeship as a cabinet maker (Tischler/Schreiner) and found a really good small company. The vocational training was planned for three years with at first 3 days at work and two days in school, where I met other students from other companies. This exchange with other students in other companies is very important to check for yourself if your employer treats you right, which is otherwise not so easy because you don't have any experience or reference. From year to year the amount of school get less, to let you get more work experience. I chose to shorten the apprenticeship to only two years after a half year. This was possible because I had good grades in school and my employer supported me. The final exam then consists of two parts. An exam about all the things you've learned in school (of which I had to learn the content of one year by myself), and a skills test which also consists of two parts. The first part of this is a full day of work, where every apprentice has to build something according to a plan they get in the morning. The second part of the skills test is your personal "Gesellenstück" which is something you want to build. There are several requirements for this project, which has to be planned by yourself (including a very detailed CAD drawing) and then approved by a committee, consisting of teachers and employees of local businesses. After planning this project you have 100 hours to work on this project, all by yourself. The final product ist than graded too. In the end, these three grades make up your final result. This was a great experience for my personal development. But I finally realized I need a job in which I have to challenge my brain. Therefore after finishing the apprenticeship, I went on to go to university and do something completely different. But the practical skills are going to help me for the rest of my life. And I have a fallback option, if something goes wrong in my future.

On the flip-side, as a consumer, in Germany you have good quality assurance that anybody who's got a registered trade buisiness has a certain level of expertise. In the UK, which has a model more like the US with no registration or standartisation for many jobs the variation in training, knowledge and expertise is staggering and very frustrating as a consumer.

One reason why the system works (more or less) smoothly in D is that there is a long-standing tradition of harmony between employers and trade unions whereas a lot of firms (and the public) in the US regard trade unions more of as a unnecessary burden to entrepreneurial freedom than a potential partner. Btw, this is not a specific US thing, the very same issue exists in a lot of Eurpoean countries such as France or the UK. The old saying goes: In pay disputes, German unions will discuss, then rediscuss and rerediscuss and then possibly and very rarely call for a strike. In France, unions will first strike and then only discuss.... Working together on specific topics despite representing sometimes opposing interests is not a big thing in the US economy. In addition, a lot of US firms refrain from systematically investing in employee education. There is the term "market value" for jobseekers in the US and employers do not regard increasing this market value unecessarily as employess might either ask for a raise or leave. Another aspect related to the reluctance of US firms to provide education is the fact that Americans switch jobs way more frequently than Germans.

Excellent analysis - this is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. I wonder how the social stigma associated with non-college degrees contributes to the increasing polarization in the US - if a significant proportion of the population feels (and is) undervalued, is it surprising that we see a lashing out at the ballot box, leading to the election of populists promising to restore greatness? Especially paired with economic trends disfavoring the non-college educated and no appreciable safety net...

Hallo Ashton, ein tolles Thema, und nicht einfach! Bezüglich den hohen College- und Uni-Kosten in den US habe ich folgende Beobachtung gemacht: Als ehemaliger Angestellter einer US-Firma hatte ich das Gefühl, dass meine US-Kollegen einen schweren Rucksack mit sich tragen: den einer hohen Verschuldung durch Studium, Familiengründung, Lebenshaltung. Und somit immer auch etwas "erpressbar" durch ihre Vorgesetzten und die nächsten Hierarchien. Wenn ein Chef sagt: "geht links rum!", dann gehen sie links rum, egal ob sie eine Wand sehen oder einen Graben... sogar Überstunden werden gemacht, um an dieser Wand zu scheitern. Niemand traut sich, dem Chef zu sagen, dass es einen besseren Weg gibt, denn der Chef hat Recht. Denn erkönnte einen morgen feuern...

When I grew up in germany the mindset was that if you - as a student - had an "academic mind" meaning being good at learning and memorizing, you should go to the gymnasium to persue an academic career. But if you were good with your hands building things and being better with "hands on" you should persue a vocational training. I was always the academic mind so I went to university and did a phd. Because I am bad with "hands on" work I could not teach my son but we were open for him to go on to choose a different path. But he realized early that persuing a vocational training meant to start working for real so he went on the academic path as well. The tendancy towards college or univerity exists in germany as well as a university education still promises a better paid 8-16 job with no dirty hands. The situation might be better than in the U.S. but the problems are there as well.

It's not just Germany, it is an alemannic thing. Austria and Switzerland have very similar systems. And one important point to make: the vocational trainings involve also a large number of white collar jobs, many of them with specialized continued learning tracks. If the US were to reinvest into its vocational training, two of the biggest possible mistakes would be to neglect jobs like accounting, and to not involve trade unions, chambers and companies.

Terrific video. It was a generalization in regard to the US system. I believe it to be impossible to explain the multitude of possible scenarios a person may face as a student in the U.S. as it relates to schools and trades education opportunities. I am a tradesman. I am an electrician by trade but here in the U.S. this can mean very different things based on your training. I did not have formal training but what is referred to as O.J.T. “On the Job Training”. Due to this my skill set is very specialized to a specific set of things. My experience is in an industrial setting with emphasis on control systems and instrumentation for motor control systems. Programmable Logic Controllers and SCADA systems. Associated with that is electrical experience in power systems from 5 volts to 14000 volts. Used in most industrial settings. I have worked for union and non-union companies. I make a very good salary as an hourly employee. It definitely is looked down on by most people to be a tradesman and you are considered to be of low intelligence and low pay. In my personal experience in the area where I grew up and in those in which I found work, trades or vocational schools were non-existent or required a hopeful tradesman to pay a tuition to attend. In my youth there were limited trades classes taught in high school. Which in recent years have vanished from my hometown high school and many other high schools. They do focus all their energy in these schools on sending kids to college and university and leave the other kids to fend for themselves. Most kids graduate high school with no skills and are thrown into the work force with little hope of attaining a livable wage. The idea that a German type system could work here in the U.S. is nothing but a “pipe dream”. The attitude of the corporations towards its hourly employees of which the trades generally are is one of utter contempt. Especially towards the trades and even more so if they are union tradesman. Trades crafts are generally considered a liability. We don’t produce goods and we cost the company money. Anyway I have gotten off topic. Definitely in the U.S. this would never work as a result of our attitude towards public education and paying for that system through property taxes which leads to gross disparities in educational opportunities based on whether you come from a poor community versus a wealthy community. Couple that with the unwillingness of corporations to shoulder any of the financial burden for anything unrelated to making them money in the short term. Also their absolute disdain for unions and their campaign against unions. Not to mention the amount of unscrupulous so called trade schools out there taking money from unsuspecting students and leaving them unprepared for entry to the trades. It’s an absolute disastrous situation for young people wishing to get into the trades. My best recommendation is visit your local union hall about an apprenticeship program. It’s the only place I can guarantee that you will get a good education and a fair wage in the U.S. as well as guaranteed better benefits than your non-union counterparts. Also some of my coworkers have been the most intelligent people I have met and generally make more money than many of their college educated friends. A college education is not a guarantee of decent wages or respect in a profession.

More than 20 % of those with Abitur go for an apprenticeship. The test for the licence is quite difficult. My practical test went from Monday to Saturday ... 44 hours in a row. I was super pooped after this week. Then you have written exames in all your different tade related subjects that have to do with your education ( mine included fashion drawing, fabric technology, fashion history, math, politics, economics, German....) and finally there is an oral exam on a practical skill. I loved my education and due to health issues I later went to University to become a Gymnasiallehrer, because I was not able to work in my job anymore. The quality is on a very high level in deed over here. It's a long tradition, passed from generation zo generation from a Master, who's education you have to add to the years, so all in all it can even be a longer path than a University degree. 😅 ( Masterschool is 3 to 3,5, years in parttime educatuon) so thats 2,5 to 3,5 years apprenticeship (depending your trade ), plus Masterschool, which makes it 6 to 7 years until fully done, if you go for the master in your trade. 😅 Only a master can educate you. That's the reason for such high quality over here. 🙂

There are also a lot of students that apply for an apprenticeship with Abitur. I did this as well, and am a Paramedic just three years later.

You are BY FAR (!) the best Germany-Experience channel! You put so much effort into your videos and it shows! I am German (and Greek) and learn so incredibly much about the U.S. system, which comes handy being an English teacher!

Just as a side note: With a vocational qualification it is still possible to attend university later. Personally, I did go to university, failed horribly and made my qualification later. Today, I am one out of two without a university degree in my organisation, called a "nerd" and being one of comparatively few experts in my area of work. Fun fact: When my son did the three week internship in our city's "Bauhof", he was the only one from a Gymnasium who had ever done this (and he later went to uni). In this time he made the comment that students from the Gymnasium later plan the buildings (architects), students from Realschule build them (contruction workers) and students from Hauptschule clean them later on (cleaning staff, often regarded as least qualified in Germany). Although this view might insult some people, it is very true. We can't all be architects, someone needs to build our houses (dreams) and maintain them.

I finished my Abitur at the top 10% of my class. But as I had no motivation to go on a "School-Path" in university, I started an appranticeship as a freight-forwarder. Now 10 years later I worked in 3 different agencies and am now the leader of the shipping department in a middlesized company. I earn more money than a big part of my friends who went to university at this point (about 4600 Eur/month). Of cause my parents would have veen glad if I went to study something after school, but I think I made the best choice.

A few minor niggles: 1. Abitur, not Arbitur (comes from Latin: ab ire, to go away). 2. School systems vary somewhat between 'Bundesländer'. Gymnasium itself usually leads to the Abitur (ie, it usually runs through year 12/13. It does confer the equivalent of a 'Realschulabschluss' after year 10 (at least in my time in S-H) for students who don't want to continue but regularly Gymnasium directly leads to the Abitur. Students from Realschule have the opportunity to switch to the Gymnasium after they finish RS (which may be harder as the Realschule concentrates more on practical knowledge. compared to theoretical in the Gymnasium, the switch may include a need to catch up...) and 3. It is not unheard of that students with Abitur go to a Berufschule etc after Gymnasium instead of to University. This is esp common for training for jobs in banking, Kaufmännische (ie non-retail-floor etc) and more theoretical technical jobs (IT etc). Often after such a training University education is appended after all

I did not read all comments and I am also not fully through your video yet, but I believe in part 2 you forgot to mention one significant benefit of vocational training / apprenticeships, that will likely blow many Americans' minds: Not only are vocational schools basically free apprentices are paid by the company they train at. (Obviously) not a full salary, but apprentice compensation is roundabout 50% of the entry salary of a fully trained employee. Oh, and by the way, with the same full benefits (health insurance, vacation days, etc.).

Since I have been an apprentice and have later become an Ausbilder (the company equivalent of a teacher) myself and also take part in examining students for their final exams in the same job that I once learned, this subject is rather important to me. And I’m afraid I have to say that I find your description of the German Dual VET program a bit misleading. It sounds like you get to take part automatically. But you actually have to apply at a company for an apprenticeship. So you are an employee of the company that trains you. You also have the same rights and duties as every other employee and can get fired, etc. If you are fired the apprenticeship is over and there’s also no more Berufsschule for you. Also Berufsschule is typically at most two days a week or you have Blockunterricht (no idea how to translate that, sorry), meaning you have two weeks of school (or three or four) and four weeks of work (or six or eight). So the work part gets more emphasis than the school part. The Dual VET is not a government program in which companies take part but it’s rather driven by companies and the government supports them. I understand that it’s hard to give a good overview of such a rather complex system in the short amount of time you have for or in a RU-vid Video and therefore a lot of detail has to be omitted but I feel that the whole point of the system here in Germany is that while it’s aided by the government it is driven by the companies/economy themselves.

I am impressed by the profound work and research you put in those videos.

And no I am not as respected as somebody with a white collar job. Sorry to say that.

After 10th grade Realschule I became an apprentice photographer at a large advertising photo studio for 3 years. After that I went on to my Abitur via something called Kolleg (an alternative track to reach Abitur after an apprenticeship, where you even receive money to be able to go there for three years.) With my Abitur I went on to a fine arts university, building upon my creative vocational training. I received a Masters of the Arts, which was useful, because with this I could go on to another university where I became a teacher (the German teacher training system is a pretty involved thing in and of itself, you might want to look into it as a topic for your videos.) So in the end, I went from being a 10th grader and a lowly apprentice to an arts teacher with tenure and comparably little worries. It was all pretty stressful a lot of the time, even though my parents were able to finance this whole journey. If I had to do it all over, knowing what I know now, I'd become a master woodworker (Zimmermeister). They're rare, highly respected, well earning, mostly self-employed and they can build and repair timber frame houses.

I watched a couple of videos some time ago, all about implementation of this system in some American states (i am sure Senator Sanders had it for Vermont but I am not sure if it is still in effect), mostly in areas where German (mostly automobile/automotive) companies where seated. In one video they had also Japanese, American and Canadian companies involved in the process and they worked closely with the American branch of the Deutschen Handelskammer, especially to get validated certificates after graduating and to keep up the same standards as in Germany (so participants would even be able to get a job in Germany or in case of the branch closing they could end their apprenticeships in Germany). Oh, and as a couple others already said, "Abitur" not "Arbitur".

I am not happy with the idea that hauptschule is for low achievers. originally it was made for those who are more talented working with their hands than putting their minds towards books. This is where "Handwerker" were meant to be. Sadly it has become the school for lower achievers and foremost the socially weak lately. So through the 90s I was told if you can avoid this place do so. That is a shame.

They spend 3-4 days at work and 1-2 days in school.

Germany's VET system doesn't only cover blue collar jobs. Bankers, insurance brokers, wholesale and retail merchants, accountants, nurses, secretaries, all kinds of office jobs are also attainable without college/uni diploma.

Our educational system is inherited from the early Zünften in den freien Städten in medivial times. A Zunft has one or more Meister who teacher the Gesellen (skilled people) which also teacher the Lehrlinge (apprentice). All Trainings where training on the job. Only a Meister was allowed to run a business. This system was used until the 2000er. There are still Meister-Schools nowadays...

Nach meiner Kenntnis ist das Schulsystem in den USA - wie in Deutschland - durch die Gesetzgebung der Einzelstaaten geregelt. Deshalb gibt es dort teilweise sehr anspruchsvolle Eingangsprüfungen bei den Colleges und Universitäten die nicht jeder schafft . Darüber hinaus verlangen die besten Universitäten extrem hohe Studiengebühren. Für “Handwerksberufe“ gibt es keine mit Deutschland auch nur annähernd vergleichbare Ausbildung. In Deutschland sind die “Meisterprüfungen“ des Handwerks den Bachelor-Abschlüssen der Hochschulen gleichgestellt.

I think German companies don't mind paying for vocational training of young people since most of the time they are just "cheap" labor after they got the basics of the job (not to say that most companies think like that, but some might). Also they can mold them to fit what they specifically need since quite a lot of companies just offer young people a full time job after finishing their training. They've been able to build trust and a relationship during the 3ish years of the apprenticeship which works in favor of both parties.

Fun fact...some german companies, mainly car manufactoring, that set up branches in the US, had significant problems finding skilled workers. Their solution in the end was to built up a VET system german style on a lokal level. I'd guess this is what it would take for the US to change into that direction. The companies organizing the whole thing and then pressuring the state governments into it. Considering how over competitive US companies seem to be...I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon...😏

I'm a 36 years old German and have a bachelor's degree in history and Japanese studies. I had a kind of love-hate relationship with university education. Let's just say it didn't work out finding a job in those areas post-graduation. After working in the hotel industry for a while, I am currently doing vocational training to become a specialist in media and information services (FAMI in German) in the public library of my home town. It takes three years. And so far, it's great. The public service sector has all kinds of benefits - the working hours are quite flexible, for example. My colleagues are a wonderful bunch. Vocational school is two days a week. It can be a bit annoying, because I'd claim only about half of the educational content is actually useful for the jobs we are doing (biology and gym classes, really?!). But otherwise it can be quite interesting. FAMIs are devided into different fields, for libraries, archives, medical documentation, photo agencies or documentation and information institutes. But for most of the classes, you stay together as a mixed group and get to know the other fields, with the opportunity to even switch under the right circumstances. That is one aspect I wanted to emphasize. It is very helpful to get to know other people who do the same vocational training, but in another city. Some things differ so you are able to assess where your employer stands both positive and negative, if that makes sense. Or if maybe a bigger city would be better for you, or working in an academic library instead of a public one. Three small traineeships for the other fields lasting about two to five weeks each are also part of the training. Because of my background in history I was unsure if maybe archives fit my preferences better. Now I know for sure that the decision for public libraries was the right one (it's just so much livelier and has way more variety with all the fun events we do ;-). Oh, and about the age: I'm not even the oldest guy in my class! Our youngest classmate is a girl of only 16 years, the oldest however is in her mid-40s, doing occupational re-training due to health issues! Some have university degrees or aborted their studies, some have Abitur, others just finished Realschule. Maybe this puts into perspective how varied the vocational training can be also regarding the background of participants. In the video you talk mainly about young people, and yes, the system is primarily designed for them. But it is also a great opportunity for all kinds of folks in different situations and stages of their life, for whatever reason... as long as you manage to get the position in the first place. I liked most of my time at university and got to know some incredible people and friendships lasting to this day. Despite this, in all honesty, I sometimes wonder if it was worth the huge time investment and stress, and whether doing a vocational training from the start would have actually been the better decision. I'm not getting any younger, and the salaries I "missed" but could have had in all those years are not a pleasant thought. As a FAMI, I won't exactly get rich, but it is more than enough to get by (despite not being a "proper" librarian or a "proper" archivist), and way more than I earned working in a big hostel.

Greetings from Austria! We do have the same education system like our neighbours Germany. You might missed out one part of the blue collar jobs. It's called "Meister" , after your apprenticeship (and some years of experience) you can attend masterclass, becoming, after passing a commission's examination, a "Meister" (Master of your profession). This Meister is a equivalence to Bachelor, according Bologna process. And I did two apprenticeships and a master diploma in my current occupation. And yes, salaries are higher with diploma and have higher reputation.

I just want to point that it highly depends on the job if your level of education "doesn't matter" (or is as respected as others) as you said. Two examples, positive and negative: friend of mine finished Hauptschule and started the same job as me. Because he's a very competent software engineer and had a good company who supported him, he's now a software architect in a large company and earns a third more than me (got my Abitur, started studying Computer Science in Freiburg but never finished and had my vocational education afterwards). That's the positive one. The negative one was when I asked a boss of mine if I could become project manager. Short answer: "No, because you haven't a university degree!" To quote my father who was First Sergeant in the Bundeswehr and is also a trained master electrician: "If you want to know something, ask an officer. If you want the job done, ask a sergeant." In my opinion, especially in technical jobs a higher education is preferred over a vocational education. Even if the employee with the vocational education has the higher expertise in the field. My point here is: yes, the german educational system is very flexible (but also freaking complicated) to achieve any kind of degree. But I believe we developed this "white collar jobs are better" attitude as well and don't see that people with vocational education/ a degree from a Fachhochschule (I believe this is comparable to the american technical college you mentioned) can be as competent as someone with a university degree :)

It used to be the way in Germany that employers hired mainly graduates from Hauptschule or Realschule for apprenticeships because who ever went to the Gymnasium wanted to go to university or college afterwards. Then it changed and employers hired mainly graduates from Realschule or Gymnasium because Hauptschule students could apparently not live up to the employers' requirements anymore. Nowerdays just a few students attend Hauptschule because they hardly have a chance to find a job afterwards. Now more and more students want to go to college and companies have problems to find a student as an apprentice anymore, mainly for crafts. And all companies now whine about the lack of Facharbeiter (skilled workers).

i think that first of all the US needs to have a huge change in the mindset that is over there. like you mentioned several times before, each worker has to be respectet for what they do. it doesnt matter what they are doing. without this mindset i believe that a system we use in germany would badly fail in the US. and also you are not stuck in one direction in germany. i am now 53 and several years before i could not work in my job anymore due to health issues, so i got a full paid "umschulung". 2 years later i got my certificate for a software developer. it was kinda weird to go to school with very young ppl but you always had the respect from each person arround you. again, without a huge change in the mindset or culture of the US nothing will change . greetings

I in fact I was lucky enough to take advantages of the German and American system. After "Realschule" I started an apprenticeship as electrician for 3,5 years, worked a couple of years in the job and then went back to school for a degree as a technician (staatlich geprüfter Techniker). So I jumped around in the German school system before my final career started. After that I started working for an American company in a totally different domain and there the only thing what counted was how you performed and made your targets. When I started, they told me that the degree I brought was only important to proof that I'm able and willing to learn but what I've studied was only secondary as I had to learn my new job from scratch again anyway. I've worked for that company 35 years and made it up to an executive level, something I would have never reached in a German company where they are looking more on degrees than on performance if you want to get up the ladder.

Hi Ashton, I want to add something to your video. First and most important, ABITUR nicht aRbitur, already said by other. You didn't say some points i will tel now :) It is nearby impossible to get a job in Germany without vacational training, a regular reasonable paid job. And what i really missed is you to say that job training is NOT FOR FREE. The trainee will get a little bit of money, much less as a trained worker, but not nothing. This has the consequence that companies will give him proper training, "when we pay him he has to be avle to really work, we have to teach him that". Here in Germany it happens not so rarely that people stay in a company for 30 years, even 40 years happen - than you are in a company your hole work life.

I am a Swedish worker who trained at a vocational school for various professions, I went to painting training which took 4 years when I was between 16-19 years old with an internship with a master painter for 1 year, then I was knowledgeable in all forms of knowledge that were required, for example weaving on ceilings, spray painting cars, wallpapering, mixing paint, we also went to theoretical subjects one day a week, an education with good teachers. We lived at the school or in rooms near the school. This was seen as an ideal form of education.

Content like this is what RU-vid was made for.

I was told by my guidance counselor I wouldn't amount to anything. My family wasn't wealthy enough to send me to university, my grades weren't good enough to buy a scholarship. So, I joined the military. After my stint, I went to a vocational school paid for by Uncle Sam. Later, I attended a small Community College and earned an A.S. Today I work at a small company, live a comfortable life, own a home, etc. etc. I like to think, I proved my guidance counselor wrong.

I am still confused by the term "vocation" because as far as my english goes this term is more commonly used in a religious context. Comparing the translated terminology the terms profession and occupation make much more sense to describe this kind of thing. Just saying. I listened to many conversations in America about this and most people use "vocation" and i just dont get used to it. My son, your vocation shall be to repair cars. *divine mic drop In my linguistic sense to learn a profession to fullfill an occupation is hardly a vocation. 🤔🤪

When there is a focus on making money in a society, the appreciation for blue collar workers in that society goes down. The Anglo Saxon Capitalism generally, divide people into winners or losers, based on the amounts of money they make. The Rhineland Capitalism however, has a focus on people, which explains the focus on vocational training. Trade jobs are accomplishable for many people, if you are smart, not only for students from rich families. A craftsman is highly appreciated in Germany, and in Europe in general.

Terrific video. One aspect to add is the we also have universities (called 'Technische Hochschulen') that focus on teaching university topics with more emphasis on practical job knowledge as opposed to academic goals. They even offer some study subjects where you work a lot of your time in a company, sort of moving the Berufsschule partnership with companies and already having a stable job to the university level. That might be one way to get there in the US, as there is clear economic incentive to do that (stable income during studies, companies generally also take over the study fees in Germany), and it would potentially remove some of the stigma...

So US vocational education is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you'll get. Nor will your clients.

Nope, a vocational training system like in Germany does not necessarily need to fail in the USA. In Wisconsin there was a dual vocational training system based on the German system (at least until the 90's). I don't know if it still exists. But, umm, well, Wisconsin does have an extremely large German heritage population, sooo, huh, whatdoyaknow, right? During my dual BBA for my middle management education in Stuttgart at the VWA in the 90's I studied at the company Bosch. Even then it was required of middle managers to at least attend 14 days of hardware vocational training due to company regulations. Only a manager who knows at least a tiny bit about the actual engineering and production process can make foundational decisions about what works and what doesn't work during production. At least in the 90's it was also required for ALL managers to work somewhere in the production process at least two weeks a year. This gave them time to speak with the production workers, engineers, etc and get their direct feedback. Again, to smoothen out the disconnect of manager levels from engineering from production levels. It seemed to work remarkably well. Nobody at that time looked down on a 'simple factory employee' because everybody knew that there were experiences to be taken from each position that could smooth out the complete process if taken without prejudice. Heck, often production workers grinned when managers failed to reach the same quotas that a well-oiled production line crew could achieve. That is an eye-opening experience for most people. Only the most self-centered people retained their superiority complex after failing miserably at what they considered 'untrained jobs'. OK, this was done at Bosch from my own experience, but I heard that Porsche and Mercedes used a similar system as well. So while it was not prevalent everywhere there was no ultimate split among the workers into 'white collar' and 'blue collar' jobs. Nor was there an association of one type being 'better'. Sure, some jobs were inherently more 'dirty' but that did not mean they were inherently less well paid or respected.

Okay I might say something rather controversial... I switched school gears up, before failing at university. So I ended up needing a job and went to vocational training. I hear often that my tained coworkers complain and mock my bosses for having no clue about anything practical. Yes sure, but they do not have a clue about what they are doing... I experienced this often from the practical side, but that could just be normal I don't know. As for the education. My hands on trainers, their program and engagement was amazing. The problem was the school. Some teachers were there to just clock off time until retirement. I never hated school until I got there. And I think that is a problem here. Overall being a mixed bag was helpful. At Realschule I learnt with the help of my teachers to organize myself so I could go to Gymnasium and uni. Uni gave my tons of knowlegde and I found my best fit in case of a social crowd, besides life skills from moving away. Vocational training helped with slowing down a bit and due to being older and having more theoretical knowlegde, teaching and guiding people. So I would say the system here is more forgiving for failing or a change of mind.

Little error. In Germany you don't only study for white collar jobs. Every Office Job is white Colmar, and most "Kaufmann" Jobs are vocational. I am Bürokaufmann (Office clerk, white collar) for Example, I have Abitur but i learned a vocation rather than study. The Studium would have accelerated my Chance to raise high in a company quickly. But haste makes waste. Often those "intelligent" Risiko Stars steer companies against Walls, unlike people who raise through the vocational System. Studying = mostly theory, vocation = mostly practical

The Thing is: This is probably an American Thing. Land of Opportunity and such...Well the fact is: Not every Kid can be a Banker. Or a Doctor or whatever. There has to be a significant Portion of the Population that do these Blue Collar Jobs. In the US it seems like a consolation Price. In Germany it is widely respected. Yes there are Shorter Ladders to Climb in those Jobs but nonetheless these jobs are essential for a Working Economy and Germany just knows how to Train their Workforce. I for one am a Software Developer. The Sky is the Limit currently. I have not been to German University. I "just" have Abitur. I Have gone through Vocational Training as a Software Developer and i can tell you: Most firms dont want Software Developer Student with a fresh Degree. They want People with actual Real Life experience. Doesnt Matter if you dont have a Degree. If you Know your Job (i.e had vocational Training) they grab you of the Streets.

The US system is very peculiar when it comes to this topic and makes no sense, especially when you remind yourself that in the end its still one country! Looks like that the US can only unify standards when it comes to the military. Oh well, what you gonna do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As fellow American who has worked with Germans and in Germany throughout my career, you present many of the same views that I migrated to over time. Keep up the great work!! I wish we had some form of their apprenticeship system in the US and could provide dignity to blue collar workers. Having said that, I think you are selling your countrymen short. These are two different cultures. Germany is a ‘rule-based’ culture and the apprenticeship system fits logically into their system. Americans are much more ‘result-orientated’. What I mean by that is that we really don’t care how many diplomas or certificates you have, it’s can you get the job done? Having run oil refineries all around the world, which are very complicated technical places, I’ve always said that when I am facing a difficult problem I want a German on my team. But I also want an American. I want the German for their technical knowledge. However, I want the American because we are the most ‘out of the box’, pragmatic thinkers in the world and are those that are most likely to challenge the status quo. Both skills sets are necessary to solve difficult problems.

I'm a US expat living in Slovenia who attended one of the US regional vocational high schools in the '80s in the New England region with a student body of ~1600 students, and can share my perspective on this. 1) The class schedule format of my school was a bi-week alternating schedule pattern Over a 2 week span the students would attend 1 full week of ~1 hour classroom subjects (academics) and then the following week would spend all day for all 5 days in their chosen vocational major (shop). With this flip flop scheduling, there were effectively 2 student groups being taught in an interleaved manner: one group was in the classroom while at the same time the other group was in their chosen shop doing hands on work, with the next week both groups switch. This scheduling structure resulted in multiple benefits: 1.a) Classroom teachers and vocational teachers were able to teach 2x the number of students without doubling their classroom sizes, since they would teach the same lessons for two consecutive weeks to two different groups of students 1.b) Every week the academic subject teachers were able to assign a larger homework assignment on Friday, knowing the student would have 9 days to complete the work before they returned to class. 1.c) Vocational training was more in the format of a job, since you were in your "shop" for an entire school day rather than just a 1 hour slot and then switching subjects. Most vocational training involves setup and cleanup activities as well as subject specific practical work. Having the full day meant that your setup was in the morning, throughout the day you did your practical work, with cleanup only at the end just like the end of a work day. Additionally, a training task could be scaled to require multiple days to complete with work in progress left in situ, since that student group would be in the shop for 5 consecutive days. For example: Students who were learning plumbing would be able to get out their tools and materials in the morning, and work throughout the day cutting, and connecting pipes for their assignment throughout the week (perhaps plumbing a mocked up house, a task that could take up to 5 days of collaborative work). 1.d) academic training in your vocation would be one of your 1 hour blocks during your academic week, taught by one of the shop instructors. 1.e) "shop" student counts could be higher than classroom since most of the tasks are "hands on" work requiring supervision, not lecture. For most of my "computer science" 4 years, each quarter the instructor would hand us a list of all the assignments for that quarter and when they were due, indicate the filing cabinet held the details, and let us go about our own self discovery while being a resource for guidance. At least for me an a few of my contemporaries this resulted in doing all the semester's assignments in the first week or so, and then spending the rest of our time writing our own programs (including games) with full support of the instructors. 2) Related vocation topics were grouped and together, and worked on collaborative tasks For example: There was a grouping called "building trades" that included carpentry, cabinet making, plumbing, electrical wiring, etc. There was another grouping called "Electronics" that included electrical engineering, software, robotics (yes, in the 80s). Or a group called "hospitality" that included Retail management (running an on-campus public store), Culinary Arts (cooking related, including feeding the student body lunch every day), and even an on-site McDonalds run by students! Moreover these trades collaborated in overlapping projects: For example: A group of students in the robotics shop might be building a new robot. They could "order" build services from the machinists or welding groups for some of the fabrication. Or in the example above for the plumber and the mock house, it would have been the carpentry students who built that house in the prior week. And then after (or even while) the plumbing students were working on it the electrician students would be wiring it. 3) Academic class subjects were correlated with vocational studies: How often have you heard "Algebra or Geometry, when will I ever need this?" In my school experience, these math topic problem assignments were often directly associated with one trade or another. For example (trig problem): A machinist wants to set up a reference 22° incline for a part on a milling machine, and has a 10 cm block with two 1 cm metal rods at the bottom spaced 8 cm apart. What spacing should be put under one of rods to achieve 22° 4) Hugely important: 9th grade students spend 3/4 of their first year sampling 1-3 weeks of different vocations, doing a small project in each, before finalizing their vocational selection. This to me is at the heart of what school should be: exposing students to concepts they didn't know existed, in a direct hands on manner. Personal Example: I arrived at the school as a 9th grader knowing I wanted to major in computer science having attended at that point 2 years of after school classes at that school already. However, I still had to go through the discovery track. One 2 week block of that discovery track involved printing my own personalized and bound notepads. 1 week of graphics design and computer aided typesetting followed by 1 week of production on offset 4 color printing presses including making the plates, doing the print run, sheering and finally binding the edges. I also did a couple of weeks in auto mechanics group, learning how tear down and reassemble a 2 stroke engine and how to fix dents and paint a car (I still remember my first day in the auto body class from the shock I received. The instructor had us group of ~12 students in front of a car while he talked about what we would do to "fix all these dents" all while tapping a hammer against his hand. When one student finally asked "which dents", the teacher proceeded to hit the car with the hammer! Shocking everyone, and into the resulting silence he said "THESE dents". 9th graders by age and experience may not have a strong basis to make a choice on vocation if they have never experienced some of the possibilities. Even though I still ended up in the computer science group, I still greatly appreciate all the trades and activities I was able to experience. 5) Apprenticeship collaboration opportunities existed for 12 graders Because of the 1 week class / 1 week shop schedule, there were industry paid apprenticeship opportunities for excelling students by the 12 grade. In these programs, rather than attending shop during your scheduled week you might spend part of all of your week working out on an actual job site, workshop, or office, as an apprentice. Your education would still be supervised and progress checked by the instructor with a strong possibility of a job offer at the end. 6) This school was not incompatible with also going to university, though it certainly reduced the immediate need. Students completed their 12th year and graduated with two certificates: High school diploma and a vocational certificate. They completed school with marketable skills and as this was a public school as opposed to a university, no debt. As it was I chose to go to university after high school, all ready having strong software development skills and training in large task self directed work, but only attended for 2 years before joining a start up tech company as employee #3, full time. 7) My school wasn't "local", it covered a region of 16 towns, each of which had their own classic high school. I had a 1 hour bus ride each way to attend this regional school. Even though it was a public school, I had to apply and be accepted in order to attend. Additionally, the school always had a nuclear option of expulsion back to the local high school for students who, for whatever reason, were incompatible with the curriculum format offered. This option was rarely used but available if no other recourse existed. 8) There's no reason "vocational training" can't include so called white collar jobs: Any job is a vocation, so this format could provide foundational training for doctor, lawyer, business management, or any other white collar work. It is just the bias of "those people who get their hands dirty are worth less than those who make decisions" elitism. ==== Conclusion: Aside from inertia, how hard "change" always is, and the perceptional bias of looking down on vocational workers, I really don't understand why this type of school is not more prevalent. Well, there is of course the monetary aspect: Universities want income! Additionally USA school funding is often tied to property taxes, creating a financial disconnect between the education and the employers since where you live isn't where you work, due to among other things zoning rules. ==== OK, this was way too long. Sorry, your video pushed one of my buttons....

High school dropout here living in the states, blue collar job. (Truck driver) making low to mid six figures a year with no debt. My wife is a stay at home mom with 3 kids and we live comfortable in the expensive state of California. Thanks for your videos, they are very informative.

With mostly public organized/founded education, you are saved from seeing things like „Trump „University““ But as long as you are afraid of paying tax that might even help your neighbors child get education, don’t complain on the outcome. Or phrased differently: „everything besides „only me!“ is socialism“ In fact it is just social. And everyone struggling with the difference between the both words meaning, you are already a victim of your system.

You just open up a very deep and interesting topic. I am from the USA and have lived in Germany 6 years, and 4 in China. Briefly I would make a comment that Germany's economic system is more humanistic [mistakenly called socialist] where there is immense laws and regulations gears to protect the consumer. In the contrary the American economic system is totally capitalistic, (free enterprise). The fostering of investment and profits are the ultimate goals disregarding everything else.

The VET system is not limited to blue collar jobs. Many VET paths are in public administration, accounting, sales, informatics, media production and others. Some jobs also have the "Meister" or "Techniker" promotion which is sometimes required to run a business. Also, VET graduates have (sometimes limited) access to University studies without Abitur.

There is no reason, why dual vocational training shouldn't work elsewhere but one: the OECD does not understand, that this dual vocational training does not produce official higher education degrees as "bachelor" oder "master". The OECD checked german numbers of higher education degree and compared that to other countries like the USA and found, that we have way too much unqualified workers and annoyed the hell out of our politics, that the 4th biggest economy in the world cannot sustain with so much "unqualified workers", blatantly ignoring that a german apprenticeship / VET are highly skilled and well trained professionals. Our politics didn't understood it either and believed the OECD and ramped up the university enlisting. Now everyone, who believes, that he is not completly dumb (and everyone believes that about himself) enlists in university and trademans are no longer finding proper apprentices and we are loosing generations of skilled, highly professional craftsmen.

Ah, yeah, Ausbildungszeit...many apprentices love to remember that time. You get in there as an unexperienced kid, and once you´re done, you´re (in most cases) a respected co-worker, reliable, grown as a person. And, during that time, you can make contacts, do some networking and so on. I´m a trained Kfz-Mechatroniker, so basically what´s called a Mechanic in the US, and during Berufsschule I got to know other apprentices from other Workshops and dealerships, and we had a real network. Not just for studies, also regarding customers, news about the companies and so on. By this network we were able to help each other out during the apprenticeship and even afterwards, if someone needed to find a job for example. Or to warn other workshops of rude customers. Good old times...

👍👏Hi tolles Video, wie immer! Ich sah neulich einen Bericht, wo gezeigt wurde wie BMW USA das deutsche System in ihrem Werk eingeführt hat. Ihnen ging es um Qualitätsstandards 🙋‍♂️

I can understand that you focused on trade jobs, totally fine. But I think it's also important to mention that vocational training in Germany is not just done for classic trade jobs, but for degrees in social- and healthcare as well. Whereas in other countries around the world these would be typically university degrees. Nurses, midwifes, physical and occopational therapists as well as "Erzieher" (nursery teachers) and related vocations all go through this system (for therapists and Erzieher it's even worse, as they mostly have to finance the school on their own and find a variety "Praktika", so they are outside of the "dual" system. There is currently a move towards university education, lead by midwifes, but especially for the education of nurses we are lightyears behind the rest of the world....my opinion as a trained nurse and nursing teacher. So this system isn't all sunshine, even though many countries apparently want to emulate it. I think for trade jobs it might be great, but it's whoefully inadequate for social- and healthcare imho.

Education is the main away out of poverty. I grew up in a kind of low/middle class area in the UK (home ownership and social house renting) and was lucky that the education system in the UK allowed me to go to university (even if a little late in life, around 26) and get out into the world of better paid work. I germany I live in a fairly well off area (although it is mixed, I live in a city so well off/not so well areas can be close to each other) , but I still see low paid work and poverty rolling down generations. In my daughter's class in grundschule there were several kids who were not that academic but could have managed if they had received some support. Their parents worked low paid jobs (with shifts, long days, very early starts) so support from there was lacking (not their fault, but it is what it is) and there were 26 to 28 kids in the class. Some of those kids will find a job that pays better (talent, interest of their etc) but others will end up doing jobs like their parents (much like the better off kids will end up doing jobs like their parents) and the situation rolls on. It's obvious that not everyone can achieve the same as everyone one else, not everyone can be a David Beckham, a Bill Gates, or an Elon Musk. What we can do though, is give the kids the absolute best start from which to build their lives on, Not all will climb high due to personal factors, but we can give them the start they need to, if they can.

Where did you get the information about a standardized test at the end of elementary school? I've never heard of that and at least here in Hessen that's not a thing. Teachers try to objectively judge (i.e. in effect do that subjectively) the fitness of each individual child for the respective branches of secondary education and give a recommendation based on that. It's not mandatory for parents to follow that recommendation, but a negative recommendation for Gymnasium will make it harder to get your child accepted on such a school, but it's not impossible. There's no barrier at all in the other direction, i.e. if the parents decide that Realschule would be better for their child, they are free to ignore the recommendation for Gymnasium.

One important thing to emphasize is the also regulated salary for the apprenticeships in Germany. It varies quite a bit from job to job. But when I was 16 years old, those about 1000 Dollars (adjusted for inflation) while still living with my parents and having no essential expenditures was the number one motivation to become a tool and die maker.. Later I still went to university to become an engineer but I probably needed the 3 years of training to mature enough to see the benefit of advanced degrees in the first place. The experience as a technician and/or machine operator is also making me a better, more practical thinking engineer I think. Anyways, also in Germany, the vocational training is loosing in popularity for what I heard. Largely due to increase in student numbers on the Gymnasiums and deuteriation of the Haupt and Realschule

In Canada, the three biggest reasons I have heard why people don't want to go into or want to get out of vocational jobs are: -The outdated belief that trades jobs are low pay. -A general belief that only stupid people go into the trades, the trades tend to have the same opinion toward those who go to university for non-stem or professional fields. (the general opinion of why would you go to school for years for a job you can realistically do with a highschool diploma) -The lifestyle around the trades, many trade jobs require camp work, seasonal work, or just require working in Canada's extreme weather (the temperature can range from 40C in summer to -50C in winter). Though the schooling around trades is similar to the US, most trades are extremely well regulated when it comes to quality of work. (at least on non-residential sites). Most trades have a self-governing body that sets out minimum standards for work, and certifications needed for specific tasks. Most trades require that someone considered competent by the governing body signs off on any work completed. This competency is either usually through some mix of formal training and hands-on work experience, or through enough years of work experience. Though you can make a decent living with just a high school education in Canada, going through a trade program often comes with an increase in pay.

Hi You mentioned that german apprentices get paid. That is correct, but maybe you should have also mentioned this: You get every benefit other workers in Germany get too. 25 days paid vacation, unlimited „sick leave“, up to 3 years maternity leave and of course health insurance and pension insurance. I went to every school type there is in Germany, lol. After Grundschule I went on to Hauptschule and after that I went two additional years to a „Berufsfachschule“ (there were three types: Sozial, Technik and Wirtschaft) and completed my Mittlere Reife which is equivalent to Realschule. Then I did an apprenticeship and started to work in earnest. Very soon I got my Abitur at an evening school and went on to study. Just wanted to show how it is possible to go from Hauptschule to University. It is very relatively easy if you have the inclination.

As you said, american companies always look for the quick buck, and trainning people to use them over a long periode of time as skilled workers is just costing money that they can not give to their shareholders or put into their own pockets, so its a clear No, the german system would never work in the US were the dollar is the goal of every enterprise these days. It would need a major a shift in US-society as a whole and on the political level aswell, switching from seeing people as objects to exploit and to make money of to actually seeing them as people to live and work with....the us college and health industry are a good examples here i think. They started with different agendas of course, but these days they only excist to make money of people....either thru health issues, bankrupting people in the process or by student loans that are pushed and promoted by these industries, thru the media, politics and lobbyists....and the goverment is not helping one bit, undermined by lobbyists pushing these agendas or simply by corruption, which is a major issue...these days it more looks like the US-goverment is activly helping the industries to exploit there own citizens, or at least not stopping them from doing so....or in other words, in the US money is everything, noting else matters, and i mean nothing unless it makes more money...so if you are lucky and smart you can go a long way in the US, but if you stumble, this system grinds you into tiny peaces, that nobody can pick up any more...one reason a lot of people from the US come to europe these days, were the living conditions are a bit better right now.

Hi Ashton, Hi Jonathan, a short Info. BMW startet a German Like vocational Training in their factory in Spartanburg, because they could Not find enough skilled workers. There some RU-vid-Videos about this Programm. Also, I Just recently found your RU-vid-Channel and I have to say you do an excellent Job. So I will make a Black Forst-Marathon today, watching all your Videos.😅 Best regards and have a nice Sunday! Ralf

And a student in a trade job is called „Auszubildender“ short „Azubi“.

unfortunately in Germany there is also (or at least has been) a push towards „uni for everyone“. this leaves many young people with academic challenges that simply frustrate them and then (even if graduation was successful) leads to jobs that really never required a scientific/university education in the first place which further increases frustration. I guess there is also a bias in German families. When both parents went to uni they would kind of hope that for their kids too. But at the same time someone with vocational training would usually not be looked down upon. Something I also know having worked both in the US and Germany: many jobs that require an engineering degree in the US (like programming a CNC tooling machine) is a vocational training job in Germany. so the people getting vocational training get to do much more interesting/ rewarding things/jobs in Germany I would say. And then, one thing I think is really REALLY important, and I say that as a German engineer: when talking about high quality German luxury products (cars, kitchens, washing machines, knifes, …) it’s always labeled as „German engineering“, though it’s really not that much about the engineers. there are good engineers anywhere in the world. it’s about the highly skilled, THINKING and „quality proud“ people that put the products together, that actually make them. I noticed this first in vehicle production in the US (fork lifts in my case but I am sure this translates to other manufacturing jobs): the people at the assembly line in the US are absolutely clueless about what they are really doing there (of course I am generalizing, but actually not that much!). they cannot read technical drawings, they have no clue about stuff like industrial standards (like what are common tightening torques for certain kinds of fasteners/ connections) or material science (like what certain metals do to each other when assembled wrong) and don’t even get me started on stuff like tolerance stack up. and they also don’t care. they might have flipped burgers or roofed houses in their previous job just a few weeks before. they don’t like their job and they also don’t know their job. that will always lead to an inferior product. in Germany this is usually quite the opposite: on production lines you have vocationally trained professionals that really know what they are doing and it’s not rare that they would stumble upon something they think is bad design / wrong, get the drawing to check, mark it up with the necessary changes and slam that on the design engineers desk and have an actual professional discussion about it that is more often than not won by the worker, not the engineer. so not are they just pointing out mistakes, they already propose a solution. a solution that is based on their professional education and hands on experience is therefor often very good. this open and “eye to eye” relationship between (white collar) engineers and blue collar (professionally trained) workers is what leads to the world renowned quality of German products in many industries. it has one downside: when living in the US (first for a year as a high school exchange student and then much later for several years as a young professional) I learned that German cars are seen as desirable and high tech and quality but also not as very robust or reliable (vs a Toyota). this has partially to do with the fact that German engineers often get away with highly complex designs that simply couldn’t be manufactured/assembled (later on maintained) by lesser educated workers and technicians than the German ones. intricate, super low tolerance designs pose a professional and often welcome challenge to the typical German trained technician or assembly worker that they are eager to master based on their vocational pride. and they have the skillset and experience to do so. if those German engineers had to work with a typical run of the mill American assembly worker work force, not a single of their intricate designs would make it properly assembled out of the factory building. I actually got to witness this special kind of culture clash first hand. designs that are absolutely standard and proven in German factories just wouldn’t work in the US for a lack of skill in assembly. this extended to the quality and precision of the parts that could be expected from suppliers. in the end the whole design had to be re-engineered to match the skill level in the US factory and supplier ecosystem. this is not derogatory in any way. of course there are plenty skilled and smart people in the US that could do these assembly jobs just as well as their counterparts in Germany (given the right training). it’s just that those skilled people in the US do tend to go for different careers. outside of vocational / technical / manufacturing jobs. they go into the service or entertainment or financial sectors in all of which the US outperforms Germany quite a bit to say it mildly. in the end it is about where a society focuses it’s talent. so most people that do work in those assembly / manufacturing jobs in the US don’t work there by choice or interest but because they did not find anything else. and that, together with the lack of interest on the employers side to invest in their education leads to the above mentioned issues. and a bad reputation for German cars reliability that is unknown in Germany, where those same cars are maintained by German technicians which results in those German cars to be actually quite reliable. in Germany ;-).

Quite a few white collar jobs do not require a university education in Germany. Various kinds of clerical jobs are part of the dual vet programs. This is, incidently, the whole point behind the introduction of the Realschule in the late 19th century. Originally, it was the school for the kids of the middle class who needed "useful" skills for "the real world" (hence the name).I.e. modern foreign languages instead of the Gymnasium's latin and ancient greek, or more practical mathematics curriculums that prepared them for clerical jobs or running a business.

Welcome in my life. I have Abitur and two trade jobs . As a mechanic i am not so well paid as somebody with a graduate degree, but it is a really save job . Because nobody wants to do that anymore.

Basically you are also able to go make Abitur even though you come from Haupt/Mittel- or Realschule. With enough job training and the Meister degree or Technician you are also able to go to a Fachschule to get a university degree in that field you were already working in. Even though you just had your Hauptschule finished at the age of 16 and was not sure what "school" means to you. It is not always easy to switch a certain path. It depends a lot on your surrounding, people etc. But is is possible.

and maybe you should remember, that would also call for an increase in tax for the individual auw auw

I think the biggest issue - as I see it from outside - for the US is therefore their political system in general and the resulting mistrust in Goverment on a high scale in the population in order to provide such an educational system...because such a system is highly tax funded and I don´t know any American - stereotypical spoken - who is willing to pay more taxes in order to fund anything...on the contrary I hear just US voices speaking of wanting to pay less taxes in general. Another issue is the unequality in the US school system in general..as you already mentioned in a side note the school system is highly decentralized ..therefore it is basically crucial to live at the right place/district in order to be able to send the kids in a good school for getting a good education - unless you can afford a private school - but good education is needed for both, trades and colleges, which is provided in Germany equaly for both career paths from the get go from the 1st grade till finish for everybody no matter the social background. And the health insurance system plays also a role because working in trades with heavy manual work those students you can be get hurt as well...in Germany that is then no financial issue from the insurance side because that all is covered by public healthcare but in the US it would be highly costly...alone for just calling an ambulance.

I guess a big diffrence ist that in germany there is no such hard Blue/white Collar seperation. A lot of the white collar jobs are ocupied by people that have undergone vocational training. And vocational progress and rise in ranks is a big part of german work culture. Having been an apprantice in a company, then become a team or department leader just to raise to a leadership or even a board position in the company is pretty comon carrer path in germany as long as someone is willing to improve his qualification level during his worklife.

Good morning. A banker isn't worth more than a construction worker, a doctor isn't worth more than a supermarket cashier. Trades such as bakers, butchers, bricklayers and carpenters used to be very important in Germany. Different areas of a country's society need trained specialists in the respective sectors who are then appropriately qualified to do good work and that is simply not only possible on a primarily theoretical part. The professionals need practical experience to learn things and to make mistakes, I don't need a University graduate who drives a taxi, who can no longer remember easy ways. This is also the problem in the parliaments in many countries, there are almost only academics and doctors, the rest of society is less and less represented and you can see that by how far from reality decisions and laws are. There are older men sitting there who don't even know what it takes to build a house or to take care of patients, but they do the decisions under which conditions other people have to do this work. And that happens more and more, for a good infrastructure, for example, you need people who can do this work, if you don't train them accordingly, you eventually have a huge problem in the near future. Because of the way the American education system works and how expensive it can be for normal people, it certainly produces well-educated young people on the one hand, but many of them then have the mortgage with sometimes high debts to live on start and take every job you can get or you become a soldier and that's sad the country then actually has studied cheap labour. As was I recently heard, much of the infrastructure in the USA itself is broken, train stations, airports, roads and bridges are in a terrible state.

So I went to gymnasium finished with good grades and started university. After three semesters I dropped out and decided to take on an apprenticeship as an wholesale and exportmanagement assistant and was lucky that due to my good grades I could shorten it to only two years. I stayed at the company where I did my apprenticeship and after a year of working I decided I needed a bit of a challenge, so in my free time I studied for my "Wirtschaftsfachwirt" and got my degree. Since 2020, I believe, in an effort to make this secondary route of education more comparable for the international labor market, you now gratuate in those studies with a "bachelor professional of business" and if I would decide to further my education, my next degree would be "master professional of business"... So there are a lot of ways to further your career even if you choose to take on an apprenticeship instead of going to university. Some companies even prefer graduates from the ihk or something similar to college graduates, because of the work experience they accumulated during their apprenticeship and further studies (of course there are companies that prefer it the other way around). For me personally, if I had to do it again, I would have started with the apprenticeship and saved myself the one and a half years of university. Later on there still would have been time for that and I would have known my own strengths and weaknesses better (and would have earned money early on)...

The German school system is more differenciated than in your description. Beside the Abitur, the "Allgemeine Hochschulreife" that enables any kind of University studies, there is also the "Fachabitur" after 12 years in different kinds of Gymnasiums (Gymnasium, Wirtschaftgymnasium, technisches Gymnasium) . After 12 years with Fachabitur you can study at a University of Applied Sciences without the classical Abitur. There are more and more special study courses called "Duales Studium" a mixture of vocational training and studies. This makes sense as most trade areas get more and more complex with hightec etc. and to encourage young people to enter these fields by offering development perspectives that are more attractive than the classical "Ausbildung".

Thanks for that and gingerly stepping through the minefield of which is better. Your pauses as you spoke, spoke volumes to me, have you thought of the diplomatic corps. Wouldn't it be great if people would look at the data possibly argue about the data at the edge and then argue on the basis of the interpretation of that data. Very little chance of that in the anglosphere, I am a Scot who has become an Australian. Nice description though of the systems in Germany and the USA. In Australia the education system has likewise become skewed to college and university mainly because these institutions funding come from the more they can get in. Now there is a swing back to better fund vocational training in the Technical and Further Education system TAFE.

Your videos are very thought provoking and take me back to when I was a German resident back in my mid 20s (around 1985). Bye the way, I think you meant to say controversial - much akin to health care, at minute 1:50! But I must say, your videos are easily the most comprehensive I’ve seen regarding life in Germany. Much better than watching giggly teenage girls talk about the differences between the American and German dating scene during their exchange student experience. Actually I’m wondering how much preparation you stick into some of these videos. My goodness, not to sound over patronizing, but I’d even give you a PhD just for the content on this channel! I remember metal/wood shop in junior high. It’s been outsourced to vocation schools that charge extra money. In other words why leave the young-adult education segment unexposed to commercial activity? If there’s a buck to be make, then it should be made for goodness sake! I used to make fun of some of my German friends who were in enrolled in apprenticeships that had $20 names (Einzelhandelskaufman) but only $5 salaries. I don’t believe that all jobs should require vocational training and working in a supermarket is one of them. But, I do believe the German system is much more superior to that of the US system where high-school grads are herded into college to pursue worthless degrees that are inferior to most of the skilled technical training a person would receive in an apprenticeship. Not to mention the level of debt pursuing a worthless degree can saddle a person with! Whenever I go back to the States and observe the level of simplistic craftsmanship in home construction I almost want to throw up. Why would a person want a concrete driveway when they can have a cobble stone driveway? Why settle for a toothpick wall construction when you can have a tornado-proof one made of blocks specifically designed to meet construction needs like retaining heat in the winter and cooling in the summer? Why have a hideous hot water heater in the basement when you can have “Durchlauferhitzer” installed in the walls. Why settle for exposed ventilation and piping in the basement rafters when everything can be tucked away nicely? The list goes on and on. Oh, and don’t forget the kick-in front and back doors American’s have on the houses. German doors have lots of locking points in the interior framing of their front house doors. And obviously they’re quite a bit sturdier. If you build a home in the States, it’s highly likely that the person cutting 2x4s and nailing together the walls, was pulled of the street the day before. He may even have lied about his skills just to get the job. To make a long story short and to end this rant, there is much more solidarity and social responsibility in the German system. Whereas the American system is based solely on making a buck with every man/woman or child for themselves. A last thought, what is your attitude about German adult children living at home? This could be a topic for a video. I would be happy to share my thoughts with you if you want some extra input. I come from the city of Milwaukee which had 3 highly successful pioneering socialist mayors. Now, socialism is such a huge boogeyman that it would take a tremendous shift in the American paradigm to get things on a different track. There are so many people who can’t afford college but who could thrive in a government and industry sponsored apprenticeship. America needs a shift in leadership as well. A country with only two other bordering countries is a curse. No outside influence and no learning through process of osmosis! Your presentation method s very diplomatic probably not to upset your State-side viewers. But between you and me, both Americans, I think we know how much the American system is lacking and going in the wrong direction. On the other hand we both care about our home country and want to see it succeed. Your Truly RheinKing

Man kann auch eine Ausbildung machen wenn man schon lange aus der Schule ist als Erwachsener.Als Altenpfleger, Krankenpfleger,Erzieher diese Berufe sind sehr gefragt.

Was ich nicht so richtig mitbekommen habe, ist, hier in Deutschland, wird man als Auszubildender bezahlt. Soweit ich das von anderen RU-vidrn mitbekommen habe, muss man in den USA, dafür bezahlen, für eine Ausbildung. Weshalb, viele Menschen schon in jungen Jahren verschuldet sind. Und, es gibt auch in Deutschland, das Phänomen, das handwerkliche Berufe, auch nicht mehr gefragt sind, zu erlernen und erst recht nicht, lange auszuführen. Gibt auch hierzulande großen Mangel an Fachkräften. Andere Ausbildungsberufe (vorallem kaufmännische), für welche auch kein Universitätsstudium benötigt, sind da deutlich gefragter. Weil man sich da nicht die Hände schmutzig machen muss und vielleicht auch keine schweren Dinge durch die Gegend schleppen. Ich selbst bin Fliesenleger von Beruf. Ich weiß, das ich einen Job habe, den keine Sau mehr machen will. Bei Maler, Installateur (Klempner), Elektriker usw., sieht die Sache, nicht besser aus.

One thing you didn't mention and which imho is pretty central to the vocational system being seen as equal, is the fact how permeable the system is also later on. My experience is with the swiss system but it is afaik pretty similar to the German one. So one thing is that almost any vocational training allows you to study at a Fachhochschule in a subject relevant to your education. E.g. as a cook or baker you could study food chemistry. Also in Switzerland many students actually finish Berufsmaturitätsschule (BMS) while doing their vocational training. This allows you to study at all FHS and with an additional exam also at all universities. Another thing is that vocational training doesn't only include typical blue collar jobs but also things like draftsman or programming. In these fields I'd argue you actually have an advantage over students who go the classical route, because at an age the others barely finished their abi/matura, you have a finished education with practical experience and you can start a bachelor's degree at the same time. Fachhochschule has the additional advantage over universities that they are more practical and allow part-time studies which allows you to self-finance your studies without needing a loan. So tons of advantages imho.

A teacher once told me: “You can’t build a house with 50 architects.” That statement really stuck with me. You need trade jobs as much as the academic jobs for a functioning economy. Today, I look at people with vocational training with the upmost respect and value the expertise and experience that come along with such a training. I fully acknowledge that there is a need for a university education but to believe that an academic career is the only path is a dangerous misconception. However, in Germany especially after 1968 there was a tendency to emphasize the academic track. I guess this is why my teacher - back in the early 90‘s - made the statement above. Nowadays I see three major tracks of education at least in my industry: vocational training, duale Hochschule “dual college” and the university track. So maybe you want to take a closer look into the duale Hochschule System as well to further broaden your understanding of the educational system in Germany. In short, duale Hochschule means that a company hires a student. The student pursues an academic program for in total 3 years, e.g. at the duale Hochschule Baden-Württemberg (DHBW). However, within these three years the student also works in the company learning the trades of his profession directly. In the end you end up with a professionally trained academic that knows his way around in the company.

If your bridges break down, your roads erode and your electric system blacks out you can't fix it with a society of lawyers and bankers. So you better make sure there's a competent workforce where you need it. And the Corona pandemic taught us which professions really are essential in a crisis.

I'm a Builder...And I also have a Degree in Business Management.. Cincinnati area has several Vocational program's and the one I went to was a Great Oaks program.. Basically it's a Co-op Program and which your taking High School Classes and College Classes at the same time...This is the Climbing the Corporate Ladder route from laborer to Company President... My company paid for my Education via Tuition Reimbursement

The funny thing is that we had a giant rush on the universities to get a degree in the past 10 years due to the fact of downscaling the entry requirements and overall cultural change. this let to a complete lack of new workers in the common trading jobs like plumbers and so on. also you can become a master in your trade so you can start your own company and there is nothing more respected in germany than being master in a trade, maybe being a dipl. ing or dr.

Vocational training is not just trades and crafts. it is also office jobs, clerks of any kind. You can be the best lawyer and yet you cannot run your law firm alone. Those jobs are white collar too.

Besides working in a company and learning the theory of the job in school, there are also courses provided by the IHK or your career specific organisation. In these courses for example you learn how to use the most important machines for your job. So even your practical skills are standardized, at least for the important things. This is very important because even if you work in the same job, companies are specialized and therefore may not have every standard machine, simply because they don't need it.

I haven't watched the video to the end, just wanted to comment on the "ranking" of schools according to highest/middle/lowest achieving students. While in reality this might more or less apply I still find it extremely condescending if not offending. The Gymnasium is for children who are gifted enough and have the mindset for a more academic education which can (not must) be the most direct way to a University education. But the other two types of school prepare you for different careers (which as you know might lead to an academic or quasi academic degree in the end as well) and they do a good job. A young person with a Hauptschulabschluss is in some areas more mature and prepared to enter a work environment than the "sheltered" and probably aloof Gymnastiastin. The fact that the Mittelschule gets all those children that are for a number of possible reasons not suited for Gymnasium (or Realschule), be it lack of ambition/support/talent/stable enviroment/language, is on another page and makes for a bad reputation as "Restschule". However, we should not reinforce negative stereotypes and talk of Mittelschüler as "lowest achieving students". This is extremely hurtful and does not do justice to those children that might be gifted in a less academic area and become fantastic craftsmen in the end.

all what you say about the German system is true just in parts. There are wide parts of the society that consider many trade/workers jobs not as valuable as academic jobs (some high qualified apprenticeship jobs excluded). Not every studies are accepted in all parts of Germany. Many companies don't educate the kids properly at the apprenticeship but rather exploit them, just let them work on inferior tasks. And then, with the intended but in reality missed propper training all these young people get then huge problems to get later in their life better jobs and climb a career ladder. Schools and universities, on paper with the same program, vary a lot in quality, in some you barely learn something you will need then in real life, at the real jobs. Some degrees are good and worth something, many (officially the same) are quite poor and the start in a job is then full of problems. Hospitals, engineering offices, law firms etc., etc. have huge problems because of the education that went down in quality a lot in the past 20 years. And what you said at the beginning, that you worked together only with extremly professional and skilled craftsmen -> you were just lucky. But if you look at Germany as a whole: there is a huuuuge lack of such well educated craftsmen, because the government within decades changed the system, that very bad but cheap craftsmen form south and eastern Europe were allowed to come and ruin many local German businesses. There is also a lot of mafia in the construction industry, who ruin first the local craft companies and then the people who are building their house. I personally know 2 cases. The German state doesn't protect victims with ruined homes because of such criminal companies. So it is not average but just in some areas or luck, that you get these companies with such craftsmen and engineers that are top notch. The others are bad educated or completely unskilled. And surely, also craftsmen from other south or east European countries can be very well educated, there is not only black or white, everything is always a mixed bag, but generally it became worse and worse in Germany to find well educated men. Many, many families have therefore huge problems with their new built house, that is in reality then not built as planned and come apart then right from the beginning, with water damage etc. So, it's a wrong picture to say "if you build a house in Germany, you will get all this very well trained craftsmen from the Berufsschule, from this great German education system".