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Dr. Helms is my favorite person to listen to about lifting - he has the knowledge through science and practical experience...looking forward to starting a full bodyish program after this training block
That's a really poor interpretation, and it isn't "the answer" as clearly stated if you listened to the entire thing, it's much more complicated with a lot of individual variant
@@jacobhate Thank you for correcting my spelling. If I could, I'd give you a cookie right now. English isn't my first language, so I don't get auto correct on my phone.
@@jacobhate A poor interpretation? In what way? It's exactly what the guy said. Bigger exercises like squats and deadlifts cause more fatigue, so you might not want to take them to failure every time. More isolated exersises cause less fatigue, so taking them to failure more often shouldn't cause a problem. What did I get wrong here?
@@MHGFTW Just because he states you can get away with higher intensities with isolation movements doesn't mean to "go crazy" he never once said that, you still need to be discretionary. In reference to the compounds, "Slightly less close to failure" in comparison to what? I'm guessing you mean isolations which you think that you can quote "go crazy" on, how the hell do you define "slightly less close to failure"? How the hell do you program that, measure that, or even practically apply it at all? Are you suggesting an RPE of 9 on compounds? You also neglect to account for the fatigue that accumulates in a session between sets. My point is your comment is a massive oversimplification of his advice, and largely misinterpreted
42:27 I 100% agree. I'm pretty sure that most people who ran the Texas method feel the same way that "intensity day" feels easier than "volume day". Very educational points man
Every 2-3 weeks I do a full body workout of very low weight and high reps. I do mine to failure, whatever I can do around 40 reps. Nothing hurts more during and after from soreness. In fact it's the only workout I have done recently thar has made me vomit.
It occurs to me that it might be worth defining another dimension of lifting experience to classify lifters in these kinds of conversations. It’s very clear that newbies in terms of their training IQ are not as experienced as Advanced lifters but that experience doesn’t always correlate with potential for week-to-week/meso-to-meso adaptation. I think a standard set of landmarks along that experience grading might make conversations on these topics easier to follow and to apply.
Great discussion, guys, it seems that in the great debate of volume vs. intensity, everybody thinks about the same, just the way of saying it and the perspective is slightly different (Jeff and the Doctors vs Greg and Jeff C)
@@rockyevans1584 Yepp. They think about the same about how people should train, but they have a very different opinion of the average gym goer. The problem is the average gym goer simply doesn't exist, the gym I train at present is the way Greg Doucette pictures it, with 90% of the people training with 5-15 RIR, while in the past I used to be in places where we had to go beyond technical failure at every set.
Really informative and easy to digest, thanks so much. Might be a silly question, but for session RPE, if you’re recording the RPE for each set anyway why wouldn’t you just add that up (rather than guessing a number afterwards x sets)? Thanks ☺️
Jeff (THE MAN) Nippard That HAS to Be THE B E S T thing I’v Seen You Do (i PERSONALLY Love Going to Failure (But ONLY for 2sets per Exercise) I’m 57yrs Old Now and Doing Set AFTER Set Burns me OUT......I’v JUST Started Training HTC Style (1 Set to Failure with a Back Off Drop Set ALSO to Failure) and For THE 1st Time In OVER 2 DECADES i am FREE of INJURIES and any NIGGLES (I’d LOVE to Read Your Reply to HTC Style Training) ..... ‘Chris from Manchester England’
Would you say that the following experience is "typical"? 1. Using heavy loads (4-8 rep range), done at a fairly explosive tempo, taking sets technically beyond failure using mild-ish cheating tends to get me bigger quicker, but takes a quick toll on my joints 2. Doing very slow, controlled movements with light loads (10-20 rep range), focusing on mind muscle connection, form, slow negatives, etc, makes me FEEL like I'm getting a better workout, but produces unimpressive hypertrophy compared to #1. I suspect I'm somewhat unusual in that regard.
That sounds typical of over 50% of lifters. Fast twitch dominant (so built for the game) but runs into joint issues (which happens when lifting heavy) You would probably be best with 60-75% of your mesocycle being in that range but with a 1/2x a week frequency to let your joints recover. The other 25-40% in that lighter range for further joint recovery along with slower twitch fiber development. Along with a 4-6 week period once or twice a year or low volume maintenance work to let everything recover. And definitely experiment with different grips and angles so that you feel it more in the target muscle and less in your joints (there may always be at least some joint discomfort), rather than perfectly copying text book form. TLDR I'd say you're the typical lifter that's naturally good at this.
I just dunno guys. I was doing a higher volume program (lots of fairly low RPE sets) with all the Powerlifting movements and getting burned out and going nowhere. "Central fatigue" through the roof. Now I'm doing low volume, high intensity, (few sets, mostly to failure, exercises like hack squat/Roman chair/misc cable work) and making great gains..... and feeling less fatigued. So... riddle me that. I don't think sets taken to failure are as fatiguing as gets made out. Maybe I could be saving some RIR and doing more sets on my current program, but I actually think that would just be more fatiguing (and time consuming).
On Iron Culture's episode on noise vs signal last week Eric Helms said that people like you are high responder to fatigue and stimulus, so lower volume, higher set intensity work has a higher SFR ratio basically. But most people probably fall in the middle in terms of set intensity (between RPE 5-6 and 9-10) and volumes for closer to ideal SFRS right?
I have a feeling everyone reacts differ to different resistance. My biceps seem to get better gains with higher rep and lower weight. Massive burnout failure. My chest is just the opposite. I know guys that just does not work for.
I never understood how people cannot train to absolute failure. For me I always think that we start the discussion while the gym goer up until now was doing absolute failure. So, for me, I must implement RPE and lower the volume because I always overdo it and the gains are fucking bye bye.
Harder then last time. And that's the beautiful thing about all of this. We know certain things. Such as "RPE 6< seems to be best for gains in size and strength" and "8>Reps to get stronger and for hypertrophy 8
How come no one is talking about the Brad Schoenfeld recent study about frequency for hypetrophy (splits being as effective as fbw )? Cant find any podcast anyone addressing this (revive stronger, iron culture, etc etc)....
Jeff one question. I normally do a push pull legs split with a more powerlifting focused workout but know because of covid i can only get 50 minutes in the gym should i change my split or stop focusing on powerlifting in this period?
1:11 "number of reps left in the tank = 10 - RPE" is a little misleading IMO. If you're using heavy weight and you do 2 reps instead of your all out max of 4, that's 5 RPE but that doesn't mean you left 5 reps in the tank. Right? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
This may be covered by simply training with RPE but how do you view decreasing reps/increasing RPE across sets. For example, you’re doing 3x8 on squat with constant weight and the RPE moves from a 7 to a 9 by the last set. Or you’re training to a set RPE of say 8 on bent over rows but your reps drop from maybe 10 to 7 between your first and last set.
When you are doing same number of targeted reps lets say 8 reps for 3 sets, then theres no way the RPE across all sets stay the same. Because its the same amount of work (volume) but your ability to produce intensity will go down after each set due to fatigue. You have to start below 7 RPE (If 7 RPE is your target at the end) so that the next sets you can achieve it without going beyond 7 RPE. Now if you dont use same number of reps, you can decrease the reps naturally while better at maintaining the RPE across all sets. So 3 sets on 7 RPE starting at 8 reps would look like 3 x 8 reps (7 RPE), 7 reps (7 RPE), 6 reps (7 RPE). The other question of barbell bent over rows on RPE 8 and the reps drop from 10 to 7, its maybe due to the lack of time you rest between sets. Or maybe it could be due to the accumulated fatigue that your body experienced which is already so high through intense workout sessions the day before. Usually a sign that you need to deload if your reps drop really far (if the time you rest between sets is enough that is).
Or better yet you can check Mike Israetel's video "determining your volume for hypertrophy" on renaissance periodization. He explains it with more detail about autoregulation
How do you guys program pull-ups into your routines? I do 4 sets twice a week and tend to train with RPE 9 during most sets. Could it be too taxing for my back? I've noticed that my rep count drops drastically after subsequent sets :/ I can fall from 17 reps at the start to 9 during the 4th set. I just want to know how intemediate and advanced guys program this indispensable exercise cause all I can find are tutorials for complete beginners.
I mean my advice would be up your frequency to improve recovery, this used to happen to me, assuming you’re taking at least 2 min of rest it’s probably because you’re getting fatigued very quickly from it, i started doing pull ups like 5-6x a week for a month and since then i only do them 2-3 times a week and don’t have that problem anymore
In an exercise of three sets , should we put high weight initially and then lower down the weight in subsequent sets (keeping same number of reps)...... or........ should we increase the weight in each set and lower down the rep range ???
Keeping the number of reps the same across sets is super unnecessary (according to Mike Israetel). If you only focus on first set performance across your training career you won't be going far wrong (according to Greg Nuckols) You should only decrease the load from set to set on the rare occasion that you know you can't get 5 more reps with it (Mike Israetel) I've never heard anyone talk about increasing load from set to set. TLDR Keep weight the same across the sets provided you can get 5 or more reps with it.
It is a little bit off-topic, but from my observations for a highly advanced enhanced lifters things might be a little bit different. Most of the IFBB pros currently doing the most progress are killing themselves with int3nsity and vouch for it. From my personal experience O also progress better on lower volume and taking most of the sets to failure
Yeah the key word is enhanced though. Not to say that failure doesn't have its place in a routine for natural lifters, but enhanced means much better and quicker recovery capacity, and therefore there are less diminishing returns in terms of benefits from how hard they take their sets. Imo
It sounds like Jeff and Eric are falling into a logical contradiction in this video. On the one hand they say that one set to failure (for all exercises in a session) causes too much fatigue. On the other hand they also say that one set to failure produces sub-optimal stimulus--and more volume would be optimal. However, if fatigue and stimulus are one and the same thing, then this is a contradiction. They're essentially saying that one set to failure produces too much stimulus; and, simultaneously, not enough stimulus.
@@ReLoadXxXxX But isn't that the point of biological adaptations? So that the organism can better manage the fatiguing affects of a stressor in the future? It would be very surprising if they weren't the same thing.
Reason why when you pyramid up in weight you get your volume in with the first few sets without too much fatigue then the intensity in the last set when you take it to failure. Or 1 or 2 reps before positive failure on a compound lift so you don't crush your self under the bar 😂
If you track your reps and weight for each set and focus on progressive overload where you are increasing either weight or reps each workout, within a few weeks you can be sure you are close enough to failure….this isn’t rocket science.
Assuming you're drug free, it's all about genetics. You either have the potential to look good or you don't Bad muscle bodies will always look bad, no matter what size they are. I have seen huge guys train like girls. If your genetics suck, no amount of training will make you elite.
I have to agree. We see it in dogs as well, sure you can cross breed them but some dogs are just crazy jacked with little to no exercise and other dogs you can exercise everyday and they will just look like any other dog.
Stop obsessing about 'science'. Get out of your head and into your body and find what's true for you. As stated in the video, you must find the balance of volume/intensity that works for you. Do a program that makes you look forward to your workout so you are excited and motivated to bring your A game to your workout. On days you don't feel like working out, give it your B game, but get it done. You may be surprised and get some of your best workouts on days you didn't feel at first like doing! And if you're truly burned out, take a day rest. We are not cold, hard facts or solid, dead matter. We are *everchanging, organic, LIVING* beings. There's no replacement (or science) for being in the present moment and being self-aware (checking in with yourself). Feel free to make changes to the workout as you change and evolve. Nobody can tell you what to do because only you know what's in your heart! Trust external info less and your own experience more!!!
Just to let you know Jeff nippard I got injured listening to you by using my pinky to drive through my bicep so I highly suggest against that everybody unless you want to get injured
