🎄🎄🎄Speedy watching with time stamps / chapters 🎄🎄🎄 Timestamps: 0:00 - Opening 2:40 - Intro to topic 11:44 - Fundraiser in memory of Big Al 13:36 - Welcoming in the lounge 23:40 - Price vs cost of whisky in 2023 28:50 - Recent years in the Whiskyverse 36:20 - A beginners six for £250 - 2020 41:39 - £250 in 2023 48:36 - An overview of the original six 57:25 - Updates for 2023? 1:02:00 - Adapt to save in 2023 1:13:12 - Jarring examples of price hikes 1:29:42 - Anticipating the effects of The Glass Loch 1:43:35 - Quiz at the End Fundraiser link in memory of Whisky Straight Al / Big Al alanmcveigh.muchloved.com/
Making my way through the replays after a month of poor health. Managed a 9/10 on the quiz, mostly through sheer luck. Tripped up on the Paterson Crash question. Cheers for the hard work, Roy!
Only just managed to catch up on the replay. Roy, you put a lot of work into this for our benefit - thankyou. As always, great knowledge shared 🥃 - 7/10 on the quiz, I'll take that with no help from the crowd!
Roy: I fully understand you're only able to look at the UK/Scottish retail market prices. Just for comparison: in NZ I was able to get Bunna 12 in 2023-06 for NZ$85 (UKP42.08). That was a standard retail price, and the cheapest I could find, and was from the tail end of a batch bottled 2021 and likely imported here in 2022. Standard pricing for Bunna 12 in 2023-12 is ~NZ$104 (UKP51.49). We have relatively few "sale"/special/promotion prices for malts, but Bunna 12 can be currently obtained for as low as ~94 at one outlet (a rotating weekly special). The 104 price is an increase of 22% over the course of 1-2 years, at a time when (NZ) inflation was ~6.something % for each of those two years. So that looks like moderate over-pricing on one of your 6 standard drams, here. Benromach 15 has jumped ~32-36% over a similar timeframe. Those are two brands that until recently I'd say were quite or very fairly priced, locally. The Benromach 15 used to be one of very few quality 15s priced as low as it was, but now it's priced roughly mid-pack. The comparable rise in price for Benromach 10 has been rather less. Cost of living or "standard" central bank inflation measures can be inaccurate/misrepresentative. For example, inflation is a fair bit higher than the "average" figure for the poorest people in each country due to factors like rent increases often outstripping inflation, pre-pay electricity contracts being typically some of the most expensive, etc. Scotch whisky distilleries may be facing higher than general inflation on things like fuel, and those increases are obviously UK-based rather than NZ. NZ is such a small market that we have very few "secondary" (auction) outlets. I may be ignorant but can think of only two. The prices there are well above retail, i.e. no sign yet of the behaviour/patterns you've observed in the UK, and I suspect that's unlikely to happen here just because of the small scale/lack of a properly competitive market.
There is no doubt about the price-gouging going on in certain quarters. I for one, will not forget the main culprits. These distilleries are dead to me.
Just about the same for me... for quite a while. However, I'm confident, I'll manage to exit replay mode and get back to live mode in the near future 😎
Hi Roy. Be interested to see where Flora & Fauna fit into your whisky landscape now. With prices going the way they are and that being increasingly relevant. Have you found your relationship with this guilty pleasure has changed?
Glad it's being covered: we're creeping back towards the old days when single malts were out of most folks' reach. Some distilleries keep things real, but some ... 'cough Diageo cough'!
Good point! Blends and low end supermarket bottlings marketed to the nth degree? One expects a kind of cyclic symmetry to such trends but, with the world the way it is, we're entering uncharted territory ...
Bunna's best price should be 30 pounds when it was on sale on Amazon in the past quite regularly. It even cost this much if you bought 3 bottles on master of malt's sale earlier this year!
I searched about over the last few days I did this exercise, this was the cheapest it was, good news that some have been able to pick it up even cheaper!
In Australia its become a joke how expensive single malts have become and I've pretty much checked out of the collecting because of it. Highest alcohol taxes on earth have made it not worth my while anymore.....
Grand Vpub this evening, cheers Roy! Not often I get one over on andy in the quiz 😂! Looking forward to next week! Much love as always from the two of us
Great VPub. I am seeing the same thing in the U.S. that you are seeing in the UK on that first set of whiskies. Good, standard whisky has not gone up that much.
Good to hear Jim, because it's all being tarred with same ugly and greedy brush right now and it's important to separate the different areas of whisky and keep focus on what we can enjoy for less.
Caught by the 9/10. I knew there were so many more distilleries in the Lowlands, but not that much... On the theme, Glass loch is upon us, and already happening for many expressions/distilleries. Another great vPub, with an important theme dealt in a great way. Thanks Roy and Barflies!
Tonight's Vpub was a good reminder on why we must be whisky promiscuous, but also why the vpub is such a good data source. Speyburn, Glencadam and even Ardnamurchan all came to me from the barflies.
Great vPub Roy, ty. Watching Saturday night here. I couldn't see in the chat, that whilst almost 19-20% cumulative inflation in recent years, our wages haven't gone up at the same rate. I know thats not the point you're making, but I think thats the context to be taken in. I totally agree with your concept of keeping an open mind & adapt, but while we do that, we lament seeing our favourites increase beyond reach. The cost of what ever bottle we purchase is in the same basket with all the other increases of cost of living and there has to be a trade-off.
Superb vPub! Insightful and packed with common sense. The asshat question tripped me but what a splendid question it was :) I could have picked the right answer if I had put a little thought into it because by 1815 Lowlands were the home of almost all legal distilleries in Scotland so it makes perfect sense the right answer to be the greatest number of the three. If I was to pick six bottles of malt whisky that represent the best value proposition I'd go with the following: Arran 10. In Bulgaria it is the king of value when it comes to price/quality ratio, at least for me. £28. Kilchoman Machir Bay for £31 or Sanaig for £36. Ledaig Rioja Cask Finish for £37 or Ledaig 10 for £38. Glen Scotia Double Cask for £27. Loch Lomond 12 for £31. Speyburn 15 for £52 or Glenmorangie 14 Quinta Ruban for £40. All prices are regular and are given as rough equivalent in pounds by current exchange rates. Special sales and discounts make the picture even better :) As cask strength options Arran Quarter Cask and Sherry Cask are available for £ 36-37. If I want something with a bit more age I'd go for Loch Lomond 18, currently available for £59 on special sale, Speyburn 18 for £68 or Glen Moray 18 for roughly £60. So even in our fairly small market in Bulgaria one can get pretty neat selection of great whiskies and not pay through their nose for it. The ground rules for me are: Don't fall for FOMO. Don't become a slave to any brand. Remember that you already have more bottles of whisky than you need and most probably more than you have time and liver to consume. Be aware that whisky industry have an ocean of great whisky maturing in the casks for many years to come. Cheers!
a serious, but very relevant and much needed topic to tackle, but you managed to keep it fun and interesting too! crunchy quiz indeed (nailed the picture because I recognised the purifiers on the stills - how's that for geekery?!) and cruised my way to a 9/10 and it was the asshat that did it. So please excuse me, as I have a wetstone to attend to😈
Hi Roy. Yes, a throughly interesting vPub with plenty of food for thought. Actually picked up Speyburn 18 for €72 and Benromach 15 for €58, not bad. Andre’s channel is pretty good. He also worked for Kirsch importer’s including buying casks for the German market. So his whisky knowledge is pretty good. Slàinte Roy.🥃
Fun topic, I think you regularly remind us that prices at around 12 years are not being gouged over the last few years, but it was a pleasant surprise that integrity permashelfs are still available to us. On previous v-pubs you have mentioned many marquee producers that suggest they don't care about us whisky botherers. Having a whisky community and whisky people such as yourself and Ralfy, helped us all push past Jura, Dalmore and the Taliskers of the world to ask our whiskies and their producers to offer us more. I think one series I really enjoy is your guilty pleasures videos, often when you go back to a producer you may not love anymore to taste a whisky that takes you back, for me that is Highland Park...I still love it, but have so much more better so it is easy to reach past these days. As far as Lagavulin 16 goes, it's still a permashelf for me, even for a point of reference. Diageo seem to be the boys that push the prices out, but are not interested in improving the quality at all and that's my issue with them, these are the people and brands we leave behind. Then there's the buy on site whiskies, saw a Glenturret 12 today, the number was just a number. Merry Christmas to you Roy and all the barflies
Aqvavitae Hi Roy. Living in Oz I have had to except I have to pay more for whiskey (scotch). I would love to drink good Aussie whiskey but it's too expensive which saddens me. Having said that, just opened the yoichi single malt you recommend. It's fantastic. Bought it on offer at $140. Great buy. Have to keep looking for the offers
Fantastic episode. Better you than I doing maths in public. The look back to 2020 was very insightful, especially as that’s when I came upon your channel. The quiz was brutal but I love how I walk away from the carnage with so many tidbits of knowledge. Cheers.
I bought a 16 year old single cask Blair Athol from MOM this morning for £32. Seemed a bizarre price. I don’t know the story behind it, might be a bad cask, but still crazy for a 16 year old single cask/cask strength whisky.
I'm a Big Al pat pal and I was gutted to hear the sad news last week. Most of all he was a fun whisky reviewer along with Monty the dog. I'll miss him so much. These days Roy I'm always looking for deals on Scotch, Irish, Bourbon and also good rum. If I can get a deal I pull the trigger. Life really is too short and my heart goes out to Al's family especially at this time of year, cheers Roy.
Whilst I think you are right with your stats and conclusions, to compare with the 2023 prices over here in NL I took the whiskybase shop prices (not the cheapest i could find online but gives an idea how it feels across the pond for people shopping at their local retailer). 247 pounds in euros in 2020 was ~277 euro. 250 pounds in euros is ~290 euro these days. 2023 Glencadam 10 42,50 eur Glen Scotia Double cask 45 eur Bunna 12 51 eur Glenallachie 12 57.50 eur Ardbeg 10 57.50 eur Glendronach 15, 100 eur * (not listed, 90-110 seems to be reasonable so took middle of that) = 353.5 eur
@@Aqvavitae Yes there are a few good huge online retailers historically that would probably bring this number down a lot to sub 300 eur. But I wanted to show what it looks like outside those retailers.
We all know prices have been going up . In the last 5 months though I’ve noticed another uptick in prices. It is truly becoming a true issue for me. I am cherry picking my bottles now and I’m not really venturing into the adventurous purchases to try many new bottles. So, the industry may be cashing in on the new prices, but some distilleries won’t see me purchasing their products. Overall this must be occurring with other buyers and this has to be affecting the industry or at least starting to. I know we’re still in the whisky boom, but for how long??
MacAllan and Glendronach are just a some distilleries on my No Buy list. So is anything 21 yrs and above. With a handful of exceptions, 18 yr olds are on a very short list of buys as well. When it comes to 15 yr olds you have to scrutinize and cherry pick before you buy. Then there’s the honest ones that stores overprice like Springbank. In which case is buy if it’s the right price. Bad times and worse are looming ahead for Scotch lovers in terms of cost and in turn, enjoyment of collecting. Good times for big rollers ,speculators and investors alike.
Great vpub Roy. Off the top of my head 6 bottle collection for someone getting serious about their Whisky journey. Craigellachie 13, Benromach 10, Ledaig 10, Arran 10, McLean's Nose, Speyburn 15. Didn't price them out but it would be a nice set for me 😀. Cheers
Too late again, so I'll have to catch it on the replay... again (still the finishing touches in the basement). Oh well, nothing wrong with that. Live is just more fun.
Hi Roy, I looked up my records regarding the Speyburn 16. I paid $110 (about 55-60 Quid) for a Litre in Dec last year. I jagged the last two 1litre bottles in captivity, but unfortunately it's only available in 700ml now for $130, a bit out side my Whisky budget. Although it is only 43%, the 2 bottles disappeared very quickly. Thanks for another great vPub Slainte
Ahhh - yeah the price pressures for GTR releases would have meant it'd be tempting to reduce the ABV (guessing) but the 15yo goes from strength to strength! Cheers Bruce
@Aqvavitae if you see the 16 for sale, I would suggest giving it a try. I reckon it might be similar to how you described the earlier bottlings of the 15 in your review. I enjoyed it more than I am the 15. Catch you Thursday night/Friday morning
Great vpub! 🥃 I researched the Swedish prices and with some changes because Glendronach 15 and Glencadam 10 is not available here, now in Sweden. these 6 will cost equal to £295: Bunnahabhain 12 569kr (SEK) Deanston 12 549kr Ardbeg 10 569kr Glenallachie 12 689kr Glen Scotia Double cask 489kr Speyburn 18 995kr 3860kr= £ 295 About the same as UK(?) Anders, Stockholm😊
Very interesting data. Some bottlings have gone stratospheric, but there are still a lot of good reasonably priced whiskies; Glen Scotia, Glen Elgin, Arran, as well as some of the new Glenlivets (Illicit Stills series) and a few good quality entry level OBs (Ardbeg 10 and Clynelish 14).
Price & secondary is such a tricky thing. I fully believe that a producer should be paid for their work, not speculators and flippers. Unfortunately those people ruined the market for us, not just in whisky but in many hobbies. Producers price increases are justified within reason, but some certainly overstepped that in some of your examples, with egregious price increases to at or above where secondary prices were at. It is definitely embarrassing if those bottles sell below the SRP at an auction in the coming years. Would almost definitely force the producers hand to cut prices on some bottles in the future.
I think the thing with the inflation is that as a luxury good, whisky is purchased from expendable income. It may not have affected whisky prices as much but most people’s budget is proportionally less than a few years ago. On a side note, of that line up the gc10 is the only permashelf for me, out of taste perhaps. I’d rather pay that little more for pc10 or kilkerran 12, I always stock the classic laddie and the deanston virgin oak too. I prefer the VO to the 12 and it’s way cheaper.
With whisk(e)y prices rising (quickly too), I'm getting to the point that it's ridiculous to spend even $70 USD on _any_ 10- or 12-year-old bottle. It's just ridiculous, and I'm afraid that I've gotten priced out of single malt scotches altogether. American Single Malts, from a price standpoint, are no alternative. No bottle that's only about a decade old should cost more than $50 max.
I think the industry knows what precedent they are setting. There’s a fork in the road and they’ve chosen their path. Plenty of analyzers and bright folk that look at the industries’ future. They likely are basing the price strategy on sound research. They believe they’re turning their industry as a whole into a luxury industry. However , perhaps sound for the immediate future but in my opinion not wise for the long term. They are slowly putting the 18-25 yr olds scotches into the premium bracket that 30 and up are. Also the prices in the US are much worse in many cases than in Europe. Add to that the outrageous shipping and scarce availability and selection in the states, at some point it will catch up with the industry. Perhaps the next generation of scotch drinkers will lose interest. The boom can’t last forever. Can it??
Price only doesn't matter to those folk that must have a Scrooge McDuckian surplus! 😉. We all know we don't taste £ $ € or whatever, but the cost to quality ratio, I would argue, tangibly affects our perception of a whisky.
The Aberlour is still chill-filtered unfortunately, but the GG is a great and all-natural product. Both, in my experience are pretty tasty too, there's more in the GG for geeks I'd suggest.
Aberlour 12 has two versions: standard at 40% or "non-chill filtered" at 48%. I presume JR-nl3mh meant the latter? GG 12 is delicious but has colour added ("mit f..."), which is the least bothersome failing of the standard 3 (abv or cf).
Lower shelf core range prices are not the real problem. The real price explosion lies in the older aka the so called more exotic releases. A Clynelish 1996 (MoS) for almost €550............give me a break.
With inflation you would expect price increases between 7% to 10% per year over the last two years depending on your country. Some whiskies went up in price based on demand as well where they were priced possibly too low (Glencadam 10) or price gouging (Talisker 18). Ardbeg 10yo great value.
We're in entire agreement! I feel a pang of guilt after snagging an Ardbeg 10 at that crazy low price. Still, I'm no richer in recent years either! Cheers
prices go up because of people like you who have 200+ bottles. if people just enjoyed their whiskey and had 15-20 bottles, then we wouldn't have these crazy prices. if the collectors just bought springbank, lagavulin, ardbeg, highland park to drink and not for the collection, then we had a normal market. but that's how it is. I have 15 open bottles and 5 unopened ones. so 20 in total. then I buy a new one when one is empty. I also buy samples so I can taste a lot of different things. you can still get springbank 10 to 40 € here in Denmark in The local supermarket. Its ok. but I mostly buy cask strength whisky from independent bottlers. that is where you get the most quality for the money.
Reviewing on catchup as still suffering from Covid. Getting better day by day and a lovely Flora and Fauna Inchgower is getting me through this last 10days. A lovely dram and a very good price (around £50) - although probably not an integrity malt as Diageo stock. Recently bought single malt from Thompson Bros and am very impressed with the quality and the price.
Sorry to hear it's caught you Matt, but I'm glad to hear your sense of taste and smell seem to still be intact. Get well soon PS: I noticed ALL the Flora and Fauna are on sale at Diageo's own malts.com recently. Some had close to £10 off.
Had to miss last night to recover from a work party the night before 😅 but glad to have caught up. Great topic and really appreciate the way you presented the price comparisons. I look forward to the second part in January… meanwhile I need to go off and think what my six bottles list would be, that’s a fun exercise to go through
