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VW EA839 from High horsepower Audi S4/S5 , issues of OE blocks and PPMLAB wet conversion for 1000hp 

PPM LAB
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In our machining of all German engines, the 3.0 version of EA839 is different from all others iron coated or OE cast-in sleeved block such as EA855, S55/B48/B58/S58, N54/N55, M156/M177. The 3.0 version of EA839 is pretty much the only modern German turbo boosted engine with "straight flangeless iron sleeves" that sit at the bottom ledge. In EA839, the bottom ledge is at about deck surface minus 130-ish mm deep. The 6 flangeless sleeves are interference fit into the block with no anaerobic adhesive. You can smell and feel the oil residue between the aluminum parent bore and the OD of the flangeless sleeves after you chisel out the OE sleeves (once you machine them thin enough for chisel). This is never a good sign. Whether oil migrated up during service or VW/Audi applied oil to facilitate sleeve installation, we don't know. In the official Audi document, they use a term "Thermally joined cylinder liner".
As you are probably aware of, cast iron sleeves and cast aluminum block material do NOT have the same thermal expansion rate (11 for iron and 19 for high silicone aluminum in relative terms), so flangeless sleeves that sit at deck minus 130-ish mm ledge go through heat cycles of growth and shrinkage on deck surface. (That is why performance shop always install "flanged type" sleeves)
What we see here in our shops is high horsepower EA839s, especially those with stock internals yet larger turbos with aggressive tunings (knocking / overheating / piston crack/melt / ruined bearings/bore scoring/melt plugs... ) Whenever they have bottom end problems that require taking apart, 7/10 have OE sleeves sinking by at least 0.1~ 0.2mm ( very obvious by finger nails ). Do they cause head gasket sealing issues if ignored? We think maybe ok maybe not thanks to the generous 93mm bore spacing of EA839. We suspect head gasket sealing rings over the 87.5mm diameter that sit on aluminum still provide sealing, especially if you do a simple surface regrind/fly cutting. But many local race teams/owners, seeing the issue of flangeless sleeves sinking, do not want to take any risks. When they decide to go to forged internals, they also want the OE flangeless sleeves removed. So far the feasible solutions are flanged sleeves or wet sleeve conversions.
I have also seen other local shops put in larger OD flangeless sleeves at 2~2.25mm wall thickness have worsened head gasket blowing issue. In these cases, sleeve sinking happen again yet less aluminum parent material is available for sealing.
In future videos, we will post how we sleeve EA855, EA837, B48, B58, S58, S55, S63, M113K, M156, M157, M177, 3UR, 1GR and many other blocks.

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15 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 18   
@dcxSpartan117
@dcxSpartan117 2 месяца назад
This is a great video. Definitely explains a lot of the short comings of the block. Thanks for sharing your findings as these issues should have been recognized by the aftermarket shops years ago before tunes came out
@expofcam
@expofcam Месяц назад
very interesting video learned a lot 👍
@danstarc
@danstarc 2 месяца назад
Awesome video. What about the EA837 Evo, aka "CREC" engines? Unlike the original EA837, CRECs also have cast-iron liners.
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial Месяц назад
The liners of EA837 Evos is quite similar as 839. But 837 came with much smaller bore spacing so even more restricted with dry flange sleeve. For 837 block reconditioning we almost only recommend wet conversion for reliability
@darrinscoilsclouds1498
@darrinscoilsclouds1498 4 месяца назад
Where are you located? How much does this cost to have done.
@gemnicherry2670
@gemnicherry2670 4 месяца назад
What was the initial cause for the failure or for this motor coming out in the first place? I have a B9 S5 so I’m curious… Also how did the the needle bearings for the rockers look? Were all the needles still in the bearings? What year car did this come out of?
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial 4 месяца назад
This engine came out of a 19 B9 S4 IIRC. The car was tuned to run 500WHP with hybrid turbo and eventually blew his head gasket. If you run with stock power, the factory block will be all fine but if you go with some aggressive stg2 tune or bigger turbo, the engine will not hold for long, maybe less than 20k miles. The rockers out of this very car look all good.
@gemnicherry2670
@gemnicherry2670 4 месяца назад
@@ppmlabofficial also interested on where you are located and if this is something you do regularly.
@xuhan4745
@xuhan4745 3 месяца назад
the 4th one so far. We only developed the wet sleeving for ea839 6 months ago. Still fine tuning the sleeve shapes especially for the cylinders on the side.
@Shulcyo
@Shulcyo 14 дней назад
@@ppmlabofficial What about stage 1 tunes ? Would stage 1 with stock turbo cause this problem ?
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial 14 дней назад
@@Shulcyo Less likely than high boost setup, but we have seen 1 stock power with blown gasket
@Shulcyo
@Shulcyo 14 дней назад
What is the price for this service ?
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial 14 дней назад
@@Shulcyo depending on the setup, starting from 5k USD
@ozzyalis
@ozzyalis 2 месяца назад
Ill be fair iv3 been running around 500whp and this issue did not happen at all with me this is genhinly the first ever block ive seen with anything like this
@dcxSpartan117
@dcxSpartan117 2 месяца назад
Plenty of failures happening but it's inconsistent it seems. Lots of people blame the tunes but it looks like LPSI might also be an issue
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial Месяц назад
Not all high horsepower 839s will run into problems. But if shit happens, the design of straight cast iron liner is definitely to be blamed
@jacobl1702
@jacobl1702 Месяц назад
Your website needs some attention. EA389 page is full of "blablabla" and "sentencesentence"
@ppmlabofficial
@ppmlabofficial Месяц назад
apologies, website still in construction, will get it done asap
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