Wait, Here's Why These Runners Got Two Bases - Baseball's Base Award Rule

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Two Binghamton Rumble Ponies received an odd two-base award in the 9th inning of a Double-A Eastern League game against Somerset...so why did HP Umpire Jae-Young Kim award the runners two bases with one out remaining in the teams' one-run ballgame? Article: www.closecalls...
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Official Baseball Rule 5.06(b)(4)-NCAA equivalent rule 8-3 and NHFS 8.3.3-decrees that under certain circumstances, "Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance" a certain number of bases. There are nine provisions within OBR 5.06(b)(4), which we have listed by quantity of base award:
(A) To home base (4 Bases): HR Hit Over Wall
(B) Three bases: Fielder touches fair ball with detach equipment or uniform, such as a removed hat.
(C) Three bases: Thrown glove touches fair ball-it must actually touch the ball to be a penalty.
(D) Two bases: Fielder touches a thrown ball with detached equipment or uniform.
(E) Two bases: Thrown glove touches thrown ball-it must actually touch the ball.
(F) Two bases: Fair ball bounces out of play, sticks in a fence, goes through the wall, etc.
(G) Two bases: Thrown ball goes out of play.
(H) One base: Pitched ball goes out play. Also includes a pitcher's pickoff attempt from the rubber.
(I) One base: Pitched ball lodges in the catcher or umpire's equipment.
There are other award rules-such as one base for the batter (but not unforced runners) on a batted ball lodging in a fielder's uniform-but these are the relevant ones for this play.
Step by step, we review the video and rule to eliminate award cases A-F, H, and I, leaving just G: a two-base award for a ball thrown out of play (bases awarded from positions at time of throw).

Опубликовано:

27 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 82

@theburnetts Год назад

The online play by play for this game showed it as a throwing error on the catcher. So I’m guessing the catcher got the throw from 3B and immediately threw the ball out of play before time was called.

@srellison561 Год назад

I'm a Cubs fan and I remember that Milton Bradley play. All I could do was shake my head in exasperation.

@austin.draude Год назад

They signed him to a three-year contract, but I was really hoping he'd lose count and they could cut him after two 😜😜

@michaelhogg324 Год назад

Same here!

@fnstyle Год назад

Larry Walker did it too when he played in Montreal... Caught a fly in foul territory, and gave the ball to the fan. There were only 2 outs...

@route2070 Год назад

@François Riopel Was thatcthe one where he took the ball back and threw it back acting like no one saw it?

@route2070 Год назад

@François Riopel Was thatcthe one where he took the ball back and threw it back acting like no one saw it?

@LindsayImber1 Год назад

(E) is a thrown glove touching a THROWN ball, not fair ball (covered in (C)).

@bernier42 Год назад

Oh sure I read this after commenting that (C) and (E) said the same thing!

@scaryperry19 Год назад

Hey Jomboy... we @CloseCallSports got this one. Great breakdown, editing and process of elimination game!

@adamdelivers0214 Год назад

When you follow the rule book and stay within its contents, rarely, if ever, will you get yourself in trouble. An argument from an aggrieved coach, absolutely.. but that won’t go anywhere. When you improvise and decide to not enforce rules that are written, that’s when trouble happens. Great job by the HP umpire!

@teebob21 Год назад

Bingo. Do exactly what the rulebook says (and as game officials, do exactly what the manual says), and you will rarely run into trouble.

@almostfm Год назад

That was (at least the part we saw) calm enough that I'm wondering if the manager knew there had to be a base award for something, but just needed an explanation.

@teebob21 Год назад

@@almostfm That's probably exactly what it was.

@smudent2010 4 месяца назад

2:03 - Throwing a glove at a fair ball is 3 bases, not 2. ORB 5.06 B(4)C

@amantedelcane420 Год назад

How could any of us possibly guess when we couldn't even see the footage? 🤦‍♂️

@tretre1692 Год назад

Much more interesting than ejections all the time!

@xvrvlzqz Год назад

I was at that game, and everyone was puzzled by the call, thinking it was a balk at first

@davidyager2579 Год назад

Good stuff, thanks. But what happened in the rest of the game?

@BASEBALLFURIES. Год назад

Hey CCS, i was at the kershaw at oakland play.... but as i remember, he wasn't penalized for it even though it was presumably still a live ball. i was wondering why the batter-runner wasn't awarded third base- he wasn't even awarded second (play is available on youtube and the next at-bat still has the now-runner at first). i don't believe time was called

@mikejunt Год назад

BR was out before the ball was removed from play; these kinds of infractions generally never nullify previous legal results of the play when they occur in the baseball rules. Similarly, award will be based on where the players were located; if R2 had somehow reached 2nd base on the play, he'd have gotten home even though he hadn't started there before the pitch.

@BASEBALLFURIES. Год назад

@@mikejunt im referring to the kershaw play, not this one

@danielbwroblewski Год назад

If you look up the GameDay you can see it was throwing error on the pitcher

@Tardisius Год назад

Milton Bradley....What a Gamer....=)

@backupgoalie1007 Год назад

I predicted the bat hitting the catcher's glove.

@alanhess9306 Год назад

That would be an award of first base for the batter. Other runners would not advance unless they were stealing or were forced.

@joshnaudi Год назад

0:44 You still have base touch responsibility. I'd appeal the touch on principal as a coach.

@stephenj9470 Год назад

But he touched home...

@Johnleonard-w5z Год назад

FYI where were the runner(s) time of throw and then ball goes out of play. Award two bases.

@JPINFV Год назад

Is there a historical reason why thrown glove is considered different from detached equipment? Similarly, without going to the actual text because I'll admit to being lazy, does this mean that throwing a hat and hitting a batted ball is 3 bases, but throwing a glove at a batted fair ball and hitting it is 2 bases?

@RyanRobbins007 Год назад

Throwing the glove at and touching a fair batted ball is a three-base award. Throwing the glove at and touching a thrown ball is a two-base award.

@mikejunt Год назад

Detached equipment is generally a rule that applies to the catcher: using the mask to corral the ball. (in theory it might apply to a ht or even picking up a discarded bat) Banning the throwing of gloves was applied to prevent infielders from trying to throw their gloves up to hit batted balls going over their heads.

@donh6416 Год назад

Nice way to explain to the non"geeky" fans.

@ambassador_domo Год назад

I noticed in the replay that it appears the throw from 3B to the pitcher was deflected by the opposing player's helmet that had flown out. Since the retired player had to position on field, it should be some kind of interference? Thanks!

@KWally Год назад

It's just shitty that it happened honestly. Intent would have to be judged here.

@bigpoppa1234 Год назад

I spent way too long looking at this. I figure the rule involved would be "Rule 6.01(d) - Unintentional Interference". Because the player is a "retired runner" and so isn't covered by the rules on runner because he wasn't still running the bases. Rule say: "In case of unintentional interference with play by any person herein authorized to be on the playing field, any of whom interfere with a fielder attempting to field a batted or thrown ball, the ball is alive and in play. If the interference is intentional, the ball shall be dead at the moment of the interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as in his opinion will nullify the act of interference." My personal ruling would be that the retired runner deliberately cut across the middle of the infield during live play and thus deliberately interfered with the throw to the pitcher by putting himself in a position where he could interfere with the fielder attempting to field a thrown ball. Ball would be dead at the moment of interference and the runners stay where they were (1st and 2nd).

@teebob21 Год назад

@@bigpoppa1234 No, just no. The rule you have cited does not apply to players or retired runners. Interference by retired runners requires an act of some sort, not just simply existing.

@bigpoppa1234 Год назад

@@teebob21 Which rule covers retired runners then, if it's not the one that covers everyone who isn't a batter or a runner? He ran in the middle of a player throwing the ball to a team-mate, that's not simply existing.

@CybeastID Год назад

@@bigpoppa1234 Your ruling makes no sense because you're ruling intent on simply jogging back to the dugout. For intent, you need an action.

@Azagthoth12 Год назад

I always thought a ball thrown out of play was a one base penalty if it was an infielder, but two bases if it was an outfielder. So why is an overthrow to first only awarded second base? Or is it because the runner was not yet to first? What if the runner is past first when the overthrow leaves play?

@CloseCallSports Год назад

The two bases are awarded from runner positions at time of pitch on the first play by an infielder, but two bases from time of throw on any subsequent play or a throw from an outfielder.

@Azagthoth12 Год назад

@@CloseCallSports that explains it. Thanks.

@rj7411 Год назад

That umpire was all over that wild throw. (minor league third baseman couldn't make the simple throw to his pitcher, Aaack!)

@wesleyjohnson3240 Год назад

Is it not 1 base if thrown by the pitcher??

@RealRedPolitics Год назад

If the pitcher is engaged with the rubber. If he's not on the rubber, he's considered an ordinary fielder.

@wesleyjohnson3240 Год назад

@@RealRedPolitics thanks

@teebob21 Год назад

Only if the pitcher is throwing a pitch to a batter. It's very simple.

@RealRedPolitics Год назад

@@teebob21 A pitcher is considered a pitcher when he is engaged with the rubber. Which preceds a ball even being pitched. When the pitcher is disengaged with the rubber, he is considered an ordinary fielder.

@teebob21 Год назад

@@RealRedPolitics Correct. Nowhere in this sample clip of this batted ball was the pitcher (position F1) actually pitching, even if he was the one to have thrown it out of play. The box score shows this as an E2, so it was probably the catcher, in any case.

@CaodeSucks Год назад

Damn, so you mean in the couple minutes it would have taken that guy to edit and post that video he could have looked up the rules and got an answer?

@MattZRJSRoxy Год назад

that's why I'm not a fan of some people like that, they don't care about reviewing stuff, they only care about 1. what gets them views and 2. that it helps their Yankees.

@teebob21 Год назад

Well, I mean it's Jomboy. I sent Jomboy a rulebook last year with the condition that he send it back at the end of the season when he was done with it. I put a $100 bill on page 3. I got my money back at the end of the season.

@Simba65315 Год назад

being fair the tv coverage didnt show the ball being thrown out of play outside of a couple of frames. still dont even know who threw it or if it went into the crowd, into the dugout etc.

@teebob21 Год назад

@@Simba65315 We might not know, but we can rest assured that the umpires know who threw the ball, and where it went...and at the end of the day, that's all that matters

@Simba65315 Год назад

@@teebob21 I meant from the point of view of a fan watching on TV, the clip shows a normal play and then suddenly runners being given extra bases. Even though he is a big content creator, is he not allowed to ask questions? Of course the umpires knew what was happening, but for the average fan just that clip out of context would be confusing.

@nacoran Год назад

I lived a block from the minor league park in BInghamton one summer. I don't know the fix, but fundamentally we need to fix the fan experience for minor league fans. The games were great, and that year the Binghamton Mets were great in the first half, but then everyone got called up. (Isringhausen, Jay Payton, and some other prospects). They absolutely collapsed in the second half. I'm not sure what the solution is for affiliated teams. Maybe they could split the season into two halves and let the first and second half winners play each other (like the 1980 strike)- we would have been blown out in the playoffs, but we would have at least gotten to the playoffs, or just have two separate half seasons with their own championships. Probably couldn't move the minor league season forward enough to fix it because you want to keep your minor leaguers sharp for late call ups. No one likes it when their team collapses in the second half, but having it collapse because they were too good really is a bummer. Other than that, $6 seats behind the backstop? The minor leagues has a lot to offer.

@mptr1783 Год назад

some minor leagues have split seasons......they all should

@terryrose4804 Год назад

Who won the game?

@teebob21 Год назад

The pitch clock

@bucklau3933 Год назад

Why did Angel ump a lower league game? Is this a demotion or CCS, explain?

@teebob21 Год назад

The Angel Hernandez game was Mariners vs. Yankees. 🤦‍♂

@bucklau3933 Год назад

@@teebob21 I see, my fault. But has Angel ump'd any games this season? His name hasn't appeared much in the umpire lineups.

@bigpoppa1234 Год назад

That seems like an non-common sense decision by the umpire in a pivotal moment of the game that clearly changed the result of the play against (imo) the spirit of the game by an umpire who found a reason to inject himself into the game. Technically correct (the best kind of correct) but ultimately wrong in terms of morality. Apart from that, I wonder if there is a wide shot that shows where all the runners were when the ball was caught. The batter seems to have run through past 1st base while the runners stayed on 1st & 2nd.

@ChiefBerry Год назад

Put Third Base for Umpire and that is who made the pivotal moment.

@bernier42 Год назад

I dunno. If a team is casually tossing live balls out of play, to me they have earned their punishment. If the batter-runner passed the runner on first base, the batter-runner would be out either for that, or for the fly out (whichever happened first). The baserunner isn’t out when the batter-runner passes him.

@tw1nn319 Год назад

it is not an umpires place to decide which rules to follow and which rules to not follow. Expecially at high levels of play, you must follow ALL of the rules, only following certain rules is sure to cause arguments. Best to follow the rule book to a Tee and if any arguments happen, all you have to say is "its in the rules..."

@1NobleGiant Год назад

You've never umpired a game before

@teebob21 Год назад

Technically correct is the only kind of correct when it comes to officiating decisions. If the rulebook says "When X happens, then Y is the result", officials had better enforce Y when X happens. Easy call, but confusing to people who don't know the rules, or (like you) think that some rules should be simply ignored as to not interact with a "pivotal moment". Here's a pivotal moment for us all: players, don't throw the ball into the stands during a live ball.