Bit of opinion on this one re first contact, I always found the magnetic boots bit... kind of stupid. For a start off I find it odd the federation would make their hulls out of magnetizable materials, an enemy could rip the ship apart at a distance, second bit that irked me on that is the ship has artificial gravity fields via the deck plating, they would just extend the fields to the outer hull which presumably is only a few additional feet above the ceiling. :) So on the above, (although Ive not watched any episode fully yet) I can forgive as it actually makes more sense to my thoughts prior.
@@MajorGrin It would seem a bit odd given they never have referenced ceilings + grav systems and anti grav trolleys need only the bottom plate to do the opposite thing, but then this is all theoretical anyhow as we cannot create artificial mass in such a manner so as to create a gravity field at will unfortunately, it would solve many problems if we could, including free energy, but physics is seldom so kind nor simple, indeed often to quote Mr Nimoy in Fringe... "Physics is a bitch."
I could accept that they might have artificial gravity on the outer hull, but I could think of at least half a dozen reasons why one would NOT want to be walking outside the hull without an EV suit.
But why would they have it on the outer hull? You've got a whole bunch of systems dedicated to preventing stuff like micrometeorites impacting the hull, so why then put a system on that would attract things towards it? Especially when you could, far more simply, bung some electromagnets in the boots of an EV suit (which would also have a shitload of additional functionality to aid completing tasks on the outside of the hull)?
I certainly do not expect the artificial gravity to be active all the time, if it's even there at all, for reasons you described and more, but you might want them on for access during maintenance. Yes, you could do so with magnetizing whatever you want attached to outer hull, but you'd limited what you can bring outside to only things that can magnetize. It's also a matter of safety. We see in one case in Lower Decks where an accident almost result in a crewmember accidentally launch herself into deep space. For obvious reasons, I'd expect people to wear the EV suit even with artificial gravity, though, which is my main problem with this scene.
There is no reason to have artificial gravity on the outer hull; spacewalks are so infrequent, that it would it be the pinnacle of impractical engineering to bog ship space/resources down with a redundant AG system. A far better approach would be just to issue crew EV suits with magnetic boots. This way, the only extra space needed is a closet to store the gear, and since the EV suits have their own independent systems, spacewalks are not tied to the ship itself in any way. I mean.....what if you're a dead hulk in space like the USS Constellation, and the ship has no internal power of it's own, but you wanna go outside and repair hull damage? With no internal power to switch on a gravity field or provide a force field for an environment, you're screwed. As for maintenance at shipyards, most outer hull repair work is done using robotic pods; there is seldom need for people to actually be on the hull.
That was actually the point in the episode. Remember, they caught people about to do it in full gear in the beginning. This scene was after they said it was a little boring, since there's so little risk, so how could they do it differently given their positions. So presumably they played some games with the artificial gravity and shields that the lower-decks people couldn't have done to make it riskier. Not my favorite episode, but they did put a fine point on the fact that this was consistent with a stupid high risk for the sake of it, so it wasn't inconsistent with more responsible EVA depicted in the various series.
Yes. Shields keep out the dangers of space. They literally always have since the beginning of Star Trek, I think literally every ST series has had an "Exposed to space but force field stops it" moment at some point. FFS you people can't even come up with criticisms anymore, do you need to write hate posts about SNW to get off or something?
@@Azati404 without a medium for heat exchange (convection) they wouldn't actually lose heat quickly at all... Which makes Spock melting the comet in the previous episodes make no sense.
Having artificial gravity along the outer hull doesn't make sense but I could let it slide. Not wearing an EV suit, and relying on the shields, is incredibly reckless but alright. The part that's too much for me to accept is filling their entire shield bubble with oxygen. That is mind bogglingly stupid.
The effort put into making the science at least halfway realistic in The Expanse is inspiring. Meanwhile, modern Star Trek is like "it just works lol".
You can actually watch the show, it's free, the SHIELDS had nothing to do with this, they set up a FORCE FIELD that went from the airlock to the plate dipshit
I think they would slide around the ship, on the shield, until they lost enough momentum to move, because whatever passes for gravity would constantly be pulling them toward the ship. If the shields didn't have any kind of steps or bumps, they would just slide , potentially, forever.
the characters were deliberately violating safety regulations and doing something dangerous by creating a force field to do this without an EVA suit, good fucking god you trolls are getting more pathetic
So this forcefield maintains oxygen cycling, protection from various radiation, eye protection from intense light, temperature, humidity, and gravity? Also, is there any hull toxicity to be concerned about (from space spores and whatnot), as the hull plates have interacted with the various elements of space? Did the forcefield perform a sterilization upon activation? Wouldn't these two crewmembers technically need to follow quarantine procedure after their foolish excursion, lest they infect the rest of the crew with space chlamydia after an extended regimen of communal scissoring?
If Una is going to abuse her authority to create a protective tunnel with the ship's shields and fill it with atmosphere from the ship, I don't see why she wouldn't also have the little maintenance droids go clean the route of such hazards first.
Assuming you are being tongue in cheek Your science knowlege is pretty terrible. Various elements of space? Hull toxicity? Its called space because there are no molecules there. You do know we don't quarantine astronauts anymore. Why would you think there are germs in space? Space is literally devoid of molecules. And any bacteria or organism that can survive in space has to come from earth.to be brought into space. What intense light source are you talking about? There is no nearby sun here. All the lights are coming from the ship or the spaceport. I'm humoring you but there is no need for me to justify this beautifully written moment which ties the B story of diplomacy with the C story of Enterprise bingo where the officers with a stick up their butts learn something about fun. And we get this inspiring moment of the wonder of apace combined with a celebration of the values of the Federation and what it means. But we can assume they didn't transport onto the hull. So their egress point in the hull also covered by the small localized forcefield provides the warm oxygenated air and contains it. The air pressure in the ship by necessity would immediately fill the forcefield chamber and sustain it until they close the hatch or turn off the forcefield. They would only breathe the exact same air they usually breath on the ship.
I guess them signing a piece of the last surviving section of the hull that was clearly blown off in a battle before is a way of the show staff and writers that STD never counted.
That they mentioned Burnham TWICE in just the first 5 episodes, even though this reboot 3.0 Spock himself said that no one was allowed to talk about STD ever again under the penalty of death. Tells me otherwise.
No magnetic boots, nor air supply from a spacesuit either. Very brave of them to do what was considered too risky, even by TNG, and totally rely on a forcefield for air, warmth and eye protection from sunlight.
That was the point of the dare. Irl me and platoon mates used to stupid and dumb dares all the time. Like setting up the 240Bravo next to someone napping and let 'er rip. Good laughs.
Yeah, I realized that too. I like this show, but they really need to work on not doing stupid crap like that and be a little less like The Orville which is what they are trying for.
@@eno2870 I think they want to distance SNW from Disco as much as possible which I’m fine with. Other than the pilot episode which was a well done tie-in IMO
I did not notice the lack of boots. They should be floating...and possibly blind cause that force field shouldn't (in theory) be able to adjust light like that.
This reminds me of when modern Doctor Who started having shots of the TARDIS door open and the Doctor and companion standing in the doorway looking out on to space. They ditched the scifi aspect in favour of whimsical fairytale shots. They just want these shows to be something completely different from what they have always been.
With this TOS prequel it makes no sense. But it makes perfect sense in doctor who lol. You’re saying Time Lord technology can’t create a magic force field bubble?
@@Nighthawk1066_ But why would they want too? A TARDIS doesn't normally travel through space at all. There's nothing there to go to, and they can materialise directly on a planet. having them actually fly is redundant, as is having them able to open the doors in space. Its like you having an airlock on your car for undersea exiting and entry to the vehicle.
Wasn't it established that the extrapolator shielding the ninth doctor acquires acts as a force field and Air bubble? I'm pretty sure that's the reason the Doctor and companions can do that.
"They were shooting at a seventh man. He wasn't wearing a vac suit!" This probably came from what I imagine is Kertzman's most frequently used comment in the writing room, "Hey, you know what would be cool?" followed by, "I don't care how it works. We'll make something up. It's magic."
The whole time I watched that scene I was thinking.... Did they go to the Bridge and manipulated the shields to do that? Did they let the Bridge know what they were doing so no one accidently kills them? How long did it take to pressurize the shield tube with an atmosphere? God I hope Admiral April isnt looking out that conference room window right now! Isn't this prohibitively dangerous? Is this wasteful, selfish, dangerous behavior befitting senior officers? Yet I still didn't notice the mag boot issue. Good eye you Nitpicking Nerd!!
@@cosmeticscameo8277 yeah thats literally the point, they were breaking the rules and doing something dangerous, watch the fucking show. I swear, these clips that shit on SNW are getting more desperate, if they can extend a force field over the hull, they can extend gravity over the hull
a line stating whether mag boots were needed or not due to walk on the top of a ship as opposed to the side or bottom would have been nice. In the Motion Picture Kirk and company just walk across the top of the ship all that was given was a line from Chekov of that atmosphere and gravity were forming . And as far as first contact, picard and worf were not top of the ship. They were walking on at one point the side or under the ship where the grave plating is side the ship would not be useful.
@@therizinosaurus214 Even if it's not walking over the opposite side of the primary hull, the lack of gravity could make you fly or something worse. I can't understand how they can "extend" the gravity inside th ship, over the surface of the hull. It seems....like you need a different type of shield or something.
also no atmosphere inside the shield grid, and they don't have eva suits on. Remember when Picard, Wolf and Lynch when for an EVA on the outside of the Enterprise E, they were wearing EVA suits.
@@nuggythebear Sure, but not with gravity... in theory they could have gravity plating to do the job, but then the question would be: Why didn't the Picard's Enterprise have it?
@@pedanticperson1149 Picard's Enterprise didn't have holographic communicators either, but Discovery did before Kirk's time. We're in a more technologically advanced timeline now.
@@nuggythebear yeah I did see that, still a bit of a stretch and an obvious plot hole. What about the fact that space is very cold as well, a force field would do nothing to help with that, it would be like -270°C out there, and again with no EVA suits they would die.
Bonus inconsistency - in Turnabout Intruder, Spock remarked on the hypothetic but not yet possible notion of "mind-body transference" in regards to Kirk and Dr Lester. Wouldn't he be more open to the concept after being part of one serving under Pike? I know it involved Vulcan Katra, but a body-swap is still a body-swap.
Katras aren't the same, as we find out from Star Trek 3. It's not a full body swap, you share a copy with the other person. Like Spock in McCoy, McCoy is still there but Spock is leaking through starting to take control. It's made clear in SNW as well when the cure was basically shock therapy to set their brain patterns back to normal, basically erasing the others Katra.
I was going to say it is a bit nit-picky figuring they could extend gravity but multiple other shows have gravity going out on specific decks due to damage. That would suggest deck plates only extend gravity for one deck with larger areas having more powerful plating. So I'm thinking for it to work they either have gravity plates on the upper saucer section or they are blowing out a lower deck plate to keep gravity on the top.
Gravity plating could be lined along a ship's exterior hull, or across the interior deck plates. All you would have to do is set the anti-gravity system to charge the gravity plates you want, which is probably what they did.
I've already told myself, Kurtzman Trek is not apart of the original timeline, after the first season of Discovery. So none of this really truly matters.
Agreed. Sadly, despite the showrunners insisting Disco and even Strange New Worlds is Prime canon, I personally consider the new Trek, and that includes Picard, to be an alternate time-line. Now I know the younglings love the new Treks, and they do have their moments, I'll grant you, but I can't get over the, "see, we can do this better than Roddenberry and the O.G. showrunners." Nope, they can't.
People: Shows can't be cool if they're not exactly like the original stuff. I'm mad. But wait...I just got a show that is too close to the original...give me something else different but not too different...I'm mad. But it needs to be different and not more of the same. But if it's too different... then it's not just more of the same which is not what I want. I'm mad.
strange how Una mentions that being the "oldest un-replaced piece of the Enterprise" being in exactly the location that a photon torpedo blew the front of the ship off in Discovery....not to mention the elephant in the room that in OG TOS Star Trek, it didnt have force fields..... And was supposed to be a more advanced ship....their continuity guy needs firing lol
Shame they completely forgot about whatever technology was keeping them alive in the Strange New Worlds by Next Generation. The new series definitely shedding light on what disorganised forgetful morons the federation seem to be.
@@jimmywrangles Imagine going to a bakery, ordering cake, getting a fat wet log of shit instead and then being told not to complain, to just enjoy the "cake".
Supposedly the "last original hull plate" on the Enterprise. It also happens to be right in the middle of the large section of the saucer that was destroyed in the season two finale of Discovery.
So... let me get this straight. No suits, but they're fine out there? I don't give a fuck if there's a plot forcefield or not, that's insanity. No suit, no magnetized boots, no eye protection, absolutely no chance of survival if that field drops for even an instant. It's this kind of nonsense that makes me think they do not give a single shit about anything, literally any random thing can just happen at any moment if the stupid writers deem it so.
I keep saying this, but their brains are incapable of seeing this as a show set in a different age with new technology and new ways of people behaving. Their limited minds only see it as modern day, but in space with lasers. The whole point of Star Trek wasnt the technology, but how technology and wisdom had evolved our species to the point where space travel was literally "the final frontier" to be overcome.
They are docked with a space station. There's little reason to suspect anything might happen to the containment field. Is there always a chance something could gp wrong? Yes, which is why they're doing it. To play outside the lines a little to have fun.
Devil’s advocate: couldn’t artificial gravity be applied to the outside of the hull? Assuming the graviton systems are within the bulkheads, maybe they could have directed some of the field to the outside of the hull, like they did with the force field?
I was about to say - they seem to be on the top side of the enterprise - why wouldn't the artificial gravity that the ship is already generating bleed through and allow one to at least walk on that part of the ship without mag boots. In first contact - they fighting the Borg on the underside of the Hull in the opposite direction from which the artificial gravity would be generated - so it completely different situation... combat, underside, and not in full control of the ship.
I think the point is more that ships both before and after this point in time couldn't do this. It's like if we suddenly got flying cars in 2020 but then 2021 came round and not only did we not have them anymore but they were never mentioned again.
and while tas does fall into the we dont talk about it catagory an exception can be made here since yes they do use the forcefield belts in that series and they were left out of the show because budget iirc
@A Shot of Hennessy ...I thank you stanger i had almost managed too completely erase that image from my mind till now see this is why we dont mention tas bad things happen
There is no way, even in a future reality, that the shields (or extended force field) would create an artificial gravity. Nor would it create a breathable pressured atmosphere. Way too much space to fill with oxygen or artificial gravity even if it’s just a small part of the saucer section. Worst part of the episode.
It's not Impossible to establish a localized force field with a breathable atmosphere in the future starfleets level of tech is just not capable of doing that in the 2200s shield technology inand force field technology wasn't that advanced then. later on during the TNG DS9 Voyager era yes it was possible
@@override367 You know artificial gravity have rules? You know sci fi and fantasy have rules? Not just canon and lore things, just things they can use for the sake of coherence.....
Yeah there really are quite a few questions, that didn't need to be asked because of this. The writers seem to care more about the fiction than the science. The required suspension of belief was beyond the pale. 1. What is maintaining life support within the force field? 2. What is providing the energy to maintain the force field? 3. What is the purpose of ship life support reaching beyond the hull? 4. Force fields are intermittent (work on a frequency) how is that one 100% efficient if it is, is it a localized one? 5. If this is localized what is emitting? All of that would be answered simply by saying, magic or a flux capacitor did it.
I think I can answer all of those: 1: probably something that is a part of the ship, like life support systems. 2: Probably the warp core or other energy generator (impulse engines or shields) 3: Perhaps to help in case of hull breaches 4: I think it's mostly a localized force field 5: Probably generated by the same source as the shields. I mean it is in reason what we know of the technology in Trek even in times of TOS for all this to line up.
@@themadoneplays7842 but the problem lays in the question Why? I did not watch the episode and sure this is all possible. Also even in TNG they modified Alot of stuff. But why the extra work to get that done? If the hull breaks a force shield will cover just the hole. Is this force field around the ship or just a bubble that follow them? Are these really such Luxury fucks that they need all that to keep the feeling of being free even on the ship
@@ichmich9324 Meh it doesnt matter in any case, iots a TV show so of course its not 100% scientifically accurate. I mean for fucks sake this isnt the goddamned expanse. Trek has always edged towards the middle of soft and hard science fiction,
@@themadoneplays7842 sure.... But it's a difference between soft and hard science fiction. And the new Form of dumpfiction. Especially in the most important parts besides Technology (you can make everything so plausible. As long as ships always fly on the same Axis and we have sound in space it will bother me) is also the part of philosophy. Which is in the new one just a work of a postmodern college graduate that neither understands writing or philosophy
@@ichmich9324 Still we have many things in Trek that have condicedicted eachother and or make no goddmaned sense, hell that was an issue for TOS! Sure later on they tried to establish how things worked but what did we get? A bunch of technobabble nonsense because the writers were coming up with stuff on the fly and not had a degree in (insert feild of science here). But even with that in mind I think my answers are still valid, I did dig into how trek technology (mostly) works and came up with some valid answers based on my knowledge of how things work in Trek.
a literal episode about diplomacy, fishing, and pranks is considered "Fast paced and action filled"? Good fucking god, do you need a fainting couch when you see a commercial for a Marvel movie?
@@override367 They gonna ruin it. They did it before with Discovery S2, 3 and 4. Picard. They have good/decent start and they ended up failing. It's the epitome of stupidity.
i know wardrobes can be expensive but for fuck sake give them at least a damn jumpsuit, wellies, and fishbowl, no one no matter how "proven" the tech is is going to do a space walk without at least some protection
The people walking without no visors and no magnetic boots and, could literally die any minute was the same people telling you to stay in doors for covid.
Okay, I'm missing something here. Is there any reason why they aren't wearing space suites? I saw the force field, but why would they pressurize a force-field just to walk out on the hull? This is why Trek works better with a budget, it causes them to focus on story and not on visuals.
In the TNG episode the crew is in a combat situation with the ship's systems compromised by the Borg. in that case it makes perfect sense to ignore whatever forecefield/gravity contraptions they would normally use for walking outside in case the Borg simply switch them off. I don't see that there's necessarily a contradiction here.
Further, the episode itself showed that lower-decks folk were going to go in full gear, and that as senior staff, they had to up the ante to have something irresponsibly risky. It was portrayed as a stupid risk to take on even under a controlled space dock situation, enough to get some thrill.
@@jarrodjohnson5219 and that's why in the military it s important to have senior enlisted personnel. To keep junior officer's from having "bright ideas".
because they're fake Trek fans that come from Stormfront or 4chan or whatever to shit on every Nutrek clip because Disco was woke or something. SNW is a good show, Disco and Picard are not.
Anyone saying deck grav plates were extended in range so they could do the walk... IS TRYING WAY too hard to defend this shitshow. I was entertained in the first two episodes but we fans got to stop tolerating this disrespect.
The one thing that I find off putting about this is the idea of the more advanced technology constantly popping up in series that were in the past, before said tech was invented.
I could suspend belief for the level they reached in the first few episodes of Discovery ( irl tech had advanced so much since last trek). But stuff like this just feels lazy.
Yep. Seems about par for the course. Actually relatively minor, considering all that's been inflicted on this once-beloved franchise over the last two decades. Also, who on earth in Hollywood keeps giving the go-ahead with all these prequels? I mean, it's tough enough to successfully build on a franchise while moving forward, but it's like they're saying "Hey! Let's see if we can sharply limit dramatic payoff *and* risk world-breaking continuity errors at the same time!"
Didn’t they have magnetic boots in Next Generation? Wouldn’t be the first time SNW ignored the canon. This is totally a reboot, not a prequel. It’s too different to be a prequel.
Well, maybe the hull piece was recovered from the debris and replaced into its original position, because of its sentimental value. But it would be hard to hide the signatures from the more senior officers, if they were already there. I commented on the magboots on the review video, so I won't repeat myself on that :)
I love fake Trek fans like you that don't know force fields can do this despite every series and at least 2 movies showing that :) Or you're just a fuckin moron, probably a bit of both
There are plenty of people who simply do not care about TOS and TNG. Star Trek is just a brand to them, not something Gene Roddenberry created. Heck, I bet you most people watching this NuTrek junk don't even recognize the name Gene Roddenberry.
I'm sure they'll come up with some bullshit by saying that those boots have magnetic apparatuses inside them, which is highly illogical because there's no room for it. Not to mention the fact a large chunk of the saucer section right where they're standing was replaced recently. Definitely not the oldest piece.
Sheiiit. Why not have a "Work Outside The Bridge Month"?! Bring all the instruments and seats and screens to the outside of the hull. Just for a month...since they got it like that.
The thing that really bugged me was the mag boots. I can accept a forcefield to contain an atmosphere and shield them from radiation, but c’mon, MAGBOOTS! It’s bad enough Star Trek rarely acknowledges null G in space as it is
Star Trek has magic gravity plates in the floors of each deck, it would be very logical if said gravity extended to the top of the hull. Mag boots would still be good measure, but not strictly necessary.
@@override367 I’m aware of gravity plating. I’m also aware that there’s never been gravity plating on the exterior hull, hence the need for magboots for the spacewalk in Star Trek: First Contact
@@override367 also, since the Expanse and their realistic approach to the laws of physics, Gravity Plating is the most nonsense part of any scifi franchise.
Ah yes, using tech thats not only beyond that time period, but beyond the time periods of TNG, DS9, and VOY...fuck, even STO. Who the fuck thought this was a good idea...
The laws of physics still apply as they would be floating even with the force field. How can the force field even work outside the ship as with shields
As cool as this was, I found it to be ridiculously odd. How risky and ballsy was this. One fail from the forcefield and they're dead. Even the TNG/VOY crew with all the advances of technology they had never attempted this. Other than seeing Q stand on the hull of the Enterprise-D in that one episode but he is Q so 🤷🏻♂️
Danger makes things a little more thrilling . That's what procrastination is all about pushing a deadline to the danger zone. The was about them finding empathy with their crew members about having some fun. This is a shoreleave episode. Pulling that stick out of your ass. You said it yourself. This was cool. You are given a moment of true wonder seeing this golden ship sailing right over you bearing the flag of the Federation and all that means to everyone including the audience.. You should appreciate the brilliance of the writing. This is the B story of diplomacy merging with the C story of the women being rewarded at the completion of their task to see things from the crews perspective to have fun. Every story including Spock and Tpring was about relationships. Alien, Co Workers, Lovers and working to empathize with someone else you don't fully understand. and the effort for each was well rewarded really without exposition. Wordlessly on the hull. And with Spock confessing he struck the rebel Vulcan and she says knowing him it was the logical thing to do. While funny it also wordlessly expresses their comfort and pleasure now knowing the both desire to be with one another.
So they rewrote millions of lines of code to create a shaped shield that is flush with the hull and can hold in a atmosphere? Can the shields be flush with the hull?
Aren't the shuttle bays kept pressurized by force fields that don't allow atmosphere to pass through? We've seen force fields generated all over the ships repeatedly practically at will in other series, though I'll grant you that those are set at a later time where technology is significantly more advanced.
@@eno2870 Shuttle bay force fields is a specific location and surrounded by walls, force fields in ships is surrounded by walls. Not until TNG we start to hear damage control force fields that automatically cover hull breaches. The difference is force fields are like a wall, what they did was create a corridor from the air lock to a point on the hull fill it with air and heat it. Its a stretch in the lore... They should have just put the two in EV suits.
I hadn't even noticed most of these problems in SNW. I guess when there's a halfway engaging star trek-y story, I don't nitpick nearly as much. Who woulda thought.
Its minor in the grand scope of things, but strolling on the hull really bugs me. It seems like lazy writing on the cheap b/c they have a green screen, when before it took special equipment or circumstances to do it. TOS-era is now more advanced than TNG-era
I remember the shielding was different in Kirk era movies. The shields in Wrath of Khan wrapped around the hull of the ship, whereas the shields in TNG were bubble shaped and could be extended. Not sure how the anti-grav works. But it could be bubble shaped too. It is a kind of field is it not?
So...they are standing on a part of the ship that was blown to bits in a previous story and saying it wasn't replaced? Was the panel recovered and put back?
The two Qs (our Q and the girl) on Enterprise hull from TNG definitely don't need EV suits. However, it is the "magnetic" personality of Una and La'an on SNW Enterprise that keep them firm on the hull, mag boots not needed. Ha!
Put an ev suit on... it would have been fine....the show needs a set of rules to follow. Write the scrips around the rules. Don't just do whatever you want to do a Sean .... The old shows did the same thing but had better more creative stories so you forget shields disappeared in ds9 during some battles...
the characters were deliberately violating safety regulations and doing something dangerous by creating a force field to do this without an EVA suit, good fucking god you trolls are getting more pathetic
Because the scene where they specifically modified the forcefield to do exactly what it did was so necessary. I couldn't just use basic logic to see that's what they did. I need it spelled out to me like an OCD child.
