Walter Johnson Doesn't Make Sense... 

Listen pal, I'm the expert of players not making sense. Juan Soto doesn't make any sense. That being said, you're absolutely correct.

That pitching motion is how you pitch 300+ innings every year for 20 years.

I experimented pitching with Walter Johnson's motion, as best as I could create it from the movies. It's amazingly easy to throw very hard without putting any stress on your arm, though it "feels weird" until you get the hang of it. Almost all of the work is done by the twisting of the trunk. No stress on the shoulder, no stress on the elbow. You actually do use a lot of your body, you just don't use it in the conventional way. And the ball is really well hidden. It's a bit hard to throw a curveball or slider, but it is possible, and there would be other options like a circle change or a knuckleball.

Walter Johnson said that his arm didn't really get loose until about 100 pitches. This means that he was throwing even harder late in the game . Today pitching over 200 innings a season is taboo. He was pitching 300+ like a walk in the park .

"Are you sure about that last one ump? It sounded high." - Babe Ruth

His 110 career shutouts is probably the most unbreakable record of all time

"There is basically 0% chance that any pitching coach today would allow his mechanics to stay this way." This is why a lot of pitching coaches today are idiots, and a lot of arms are ruined early in careers. They think everyone should throw exactly the same way, despite the fact that not everyone is built the same way. Rule #1 is: You don't mess with something that works.

Keep in mind a pitchers velocity does not result from whipping his arm; it results from the speed at which his hips rotate during the delivery. With the mechanics I see on these old films, Johnson created phenomenal torque from H & S sep and PHA and when combined with his release, extension and decel provided pitch velocity not seen in any other pitcher until Grove and Feller came along.

My grandfather told me many years ago that he had a chance to stand in the box against Johnson while he was still an amateur in Idaho. He said it was an easy at bat as he never got the bat off his shoulder because the ball looked to be the size of a pea as it went by.

"Hey, who's pitching today?" "Walter Johnson." "Arg, it's gonna be a boring game...but at least we'll win."

Johnson said that he didn't understand why his style wasn't favored by managers because he believed it put less stress on the arm. BTW check out Henry W Thomas's book Walter Johnson Baseball's Big Train

When I pitch with him in mlb the show he doesnt hardly move and throws 100 mph

Walter Johnson was also an excellent batsman, for a pitcher. Over his career, his offense added about twelve wins to his teams, compared to the average pitcher.

The Big Train also had 26 SuperWins. That's when you get a W and also drive in more runs than you give up. What a beast.

imagine being so good that you literally go easy on your friends who just so happen to be some of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen.

The greatest pitcher of all time by far. He later said in an interview that he pitched like that because it gave him more speed and was less taxing on his arm

I will tell you what he is doing right: Johnson's velocity arose mainly from his mechanics. Note the severity of his hip and shoulder separation in the midst of his delivery. (You can view on youtube a ESPN Sports Science segment on Aroldis Chapman which explains hip and shoulder separation.) Few pitchers in baseball history had the flexibility in his hips to get to what I would estimate is 60% separation. Most get to about 35-40%. The majority of a pitcher's velo comes from this tactic. Johnson is also able to achieve posterior horizontal abduction, that is, getting the back of his forearm parallel to the ground during his arm stroke. ALL the hard throwers can do this--from Johnson to Feller to Koufax to Chapman.

You can get some insane movement with a sidearm delivery.

Ty Cobb said that Johnson was such a good guy that he hated hitting batters when he pitched. So Cobb would crowd up on the plate.

The greatest athlete from my high school, Fullerton Union High in Fullerton, Ca. He once struck out 27 batters in one extra inning game.

There’s a high school in Bethesda, Maryland names after him. I know that because I went to that high school.

The greatest pitcher in MLB history

Imagine what would have happened if he didn't play for the team that made "last in the American League" a thing.

If he was on the Red Sox or Athletics then he'd have the wins record and not Cy Young

I'm no expert on this, but when I've watched film on him, I was struck by a couple of things: 1.) He had the nearly perfect physique for a pitcher. He wasn't overly tall (6'1") but his arms were extremely long and obviously very flexible. This allowed him a whip-like effect where the end of his arm would reach high velocity and impart that velocity to the ball, the same way the end of a whip can go momentarily supersonic (and create a crack, which is a mini sonic boom). I think that calling his delivery "whip-like" is more than just a metaphor. 2.) The ease with which he threw, coupled with his side-arm motion, must have been very deceptive even though he threw mostly fastballs. Hitters, especially right handers, would see the ball late and then have a hard time judging the velocity. 3.) I wonder if his side-arm delivery was a factor in why he was able to pitch so many innings in his 20-plus year career. It seems to me his type of delivery has to be less stressful on the shoulder than the extreme overhand taught these days. But this is only speculation of course; it might all be explained by his unique physical gifts.

Walter Johnson's Locker in Cooperstown is the most vivid memory I have of visiting the HOF back in the late 80's. Johnson is Bruce Lee, a demigod, in a hall full of worthy but lesser mortals. Jackie Chan and Chuck Norris just aren't on the same plane as WJ., His uniform which was made of some really hot, heavy wool was like Big Train, larger than life. Looking at his never-to-be duplicated stats, and then seeing his personal stuff from his old Senators mini crib was quietly awe inspiring. If there ever a Superman played the game it was Johnson.

"Hey" Ty Cobb spoke of two ways to hit against Johnson. 1st was to crowd the plate, Johnson didn't wan't to hurt anyone so if you crowded the plate he would ease up some. 2nd was to never actually swing at a Johnson fastball as you'll rarely hit it. So basically put your bat into the strike zone and if you made contact, the ball was coming in so fast you were at least guaranteed a single if you didn't foul it off. In many recollections, there was mention of the distinctive sound the ball made as it headed towards the plate. One time Babe Ruth was struck out on a called third strike and turned to the Umpire and asked "You sure? The Umpire replied "Yes, it was right in there" As Ruth began walking away he muttered "I thought it sounded a bit low"

MVP award was hella different back in the days. With that said, those who said Cy Young was the best pitcher because of his wins total needs to look at Walter Johnson, his era and strikeouts blows him out.

Greatest pitcher who ever lived.

Considering how long he pitched, how many pitches he threw, his lack of arm injuries, and his incredible success, maybe he knew what he was doing, and maybe today's coaches are just wrong?

Thanks for this video and the additional footage of Johnson's motion - including the "MLB the Show" portrayal. Bill James wondered back in 1987 why sidearm and submarine deliveries faded out. I'd never seen footage of Walter Johnson's until about two years ago and it struck me. Motion looks so easy, unstrained. Natural for the greatest pitcher of all time. Thanks again. Washington did have something to cheer about before last year's Series win.

Today they would change his pitching and he would blow his arm in 3 years

“Hey”

The guy was just a freak of nature. His delivery made a lot of sense for his time, given that pitching staffs were very small and pitchers threw to contact to limit the strain on their arms. But they weren’t supposed to be able to throw un-hittable pitches. Lol. He got the best of both worlds: little strain, big time cheese.

Walter Johnson sounds like the real-life Sidd Finch.

Walter Johnson might be the best pitcher of all time

I'd look at his pitching motion again...it seemed to work for him

Please do one on Bobby Richardson winning the MVP when the Yankees lost the WS

You know, you talk about how Johnson’s delivery doesn’t make sense, but he had plenty of clearance from his body, and threw with a minimum of effort. He created enough whip action with his upper body instead of his legs, which is super human. It also was a simple, repeatable windup. Something all pitching coaches teach. Only difference is his follow through, he basically used his front leg as a tool for balance instead of guidance, I.e., the ball goes where your front foot ends up. His abbreviated motion probably helped conserve energy, because the only things working were his arm and hips. The modern day comparison is Strasburg. Since he’s switched to throwing from the stretch 100% of the time, his command has improved drastically. It’s very similar to Johnson’s windup, it’s a quarter turn with the hips so you don’t lose the target. He’s basically just throwing the ball, too. Although his velocity went down to 94, he’s shortened and simplified his windup. Maybe you could do a comparison video using those two guys, since they’re similar in stature. Watching old film, trying to see how fast guys through is pretty interesting for comparison. There’s extended Koufax footage in the ‘65 World Series, and just by sight he looks pretty close to 100 mph at times.Mickey Lolich and Gibson in ‘68 series. There’s footage of Jim Palmer in the ‘69 series where he and Gary Gentry look like they’re in the mid/high 90’s. Then Ryan comes in the game and throws 100. But really, if you’re talking about pure FEAR, Walter Johnson with a little extra mustard on it coming in SIDEARM at 100 mph, you’re looking at the man that wrote the book on power pitching. Period. In any era. Nice video despite the obnoxious delivery.

Petition to have the Cy Young Award changed to the Walter Johnson Award

The most underrated aspect of Walter Johnson is that he only had one pitch, his fastball. One historian was quoted saying, "Walter Johnson's idea of a changeup was just to throw the ball harder." Ty Cobb stated that Johnson would have never given up a hit if he learned how to throw a curveball

Watching the Big Train pitch is like watching Ben Hogan hit a golf ball. It's just so effortless and natural, and effective af!!!

Ed Walsh literally pitched 33% of all innings pitched by all White Sox pitchers in 1908. 49 starts plus 17 relief appearances. Unreal.

greatest pitcher of all time, and looks like Robin William's twin

Im honored to be at nats fan bc of Walter

His locker set up at Cooperstown was the most impressive thing in the entire Hall for me."Big Train" would be just another big man today but back then he was a giant.

Vin Scully loved talking about Walter “Barney” Johnson. Thanks for reminding me.

The mlb the show footage😂

So what you're saying is, in 1912 Walter Johnson pitched the greatest season ever, and then he did it again in 1913?

And he had to wait til he was 36 before he got rewarded with a Pennant.

the REVERSE wind-up is very important. It stretches the arm muscles in the opposite position than the pitching motion - enabling them to snap forward with greater force, You can see Muhammid Ali swinging his right arm in reverse before the bell against Ken Norton because he was depending on his right hand punch for vitory. This is the secret for being able to pitch so many innings.

All pitch tests 1939 and earlier 1914- Walter Johnson- 99.7 mph 1939- Atley Donald- 99.3 mph 1939- Dee Miles- 96.7 mph 1917- Walter Johnson- 95.4 mph 1912- Walter Johnson- 93.8 mph 1939- Steve Sundra- 93.3 mph 1939- Wally Moses- 93.3 mph 1912- Walter Johnson- 93.1 mph 1912- Walter Johnson- 92.4 mph 1917- Christy Mathewson- 90.6 mph 1939- Johnny Humphries- 90.6 mph 1917- Smoky Joe Wood- 88.5 mph 1912- Nap Rucker- 87.6 mph 1939- Jim Tabor- 87.2 mph 1939- Roger Cramer- 87.2 mph 1933- Van Mungo- 86 mph 1939- Bob Feller- 85.1 mph 1912- Nap Rucker- 84.9 mph 1933- Lefty Gomez- 84.7 mph 1912- Nap Rucker- 82.8 mph

This man deserves way more than 50k subs

Throwing side-arm like that, the fastball breaks in on a right-handed batter. Can't be fun.

You said he did not use his legs and hips but when you watch his motion you can see he does lead with his hips and legs. His motion is just more compact than many of today's pitchers. He had to be a extra strong man to throw with that compact motion. Jimmie Foxx the great HR hitter had a very compact swing and he hit 534 homers. I just figured he had to be as strong as a bull to hit that many.

When I was in Minneapolis watching the Twins play when I was young, I remember talking to an old-timer who had seen Walter Johnson pitch when he was young (the Twins were once the Washington Senators). He claimed that Walter Johnson in his prime threw harder than Feller, Ryan, Duren, or anyone else. The sad part is that the only film we have of Walter pitching was at the very end of his career. Even then, filming was done by a camera operator winding a crank to expose the film in the camera. Therefore, every movement was subject to the tendencies of the camera operator. Projecting just how fast someone threw from that old film was next to impossible. I believe Ty Cobb, I think still the best hitter in baseball history, when he said, "You can't hit what you can't see!" From what I could see with the film, such as it was, was that it wasn't just his fastball that threw hitters, it was how that fastball moved in the strike zone. With Walter Johnson, his fastball started at one point in the strike zone and then went down, almost like a slider. Even a fastball pitcher throwing 100 mph is no match for an MLB hitter unless it has some movement on it. That's why Kerry Wood struck out 20 guys in a game against a good Houston Astros team. His fastball that day moved in ways the hitters could not project. That's why many hitters stuck out against Walter and when they did get a hit, the ball wound up in someone's glove for an out.

6:18 and also rookies and young players! Basically the opposite of what Ty Cobb would do in his position! Suddenly his only having 1 no-hitter makes sense knowing this.

Remember his statue at old Griffith Stadium in the late fifties.There were even old fans at the park who remember the BigTrain.Taking a DC transit streetcar as a young teenager to the park was fun.After the 1960 season that sob Calvin Griffith, adopted son of beloved Clark who was dead

Johnson's pitching style was extremely deceptive which was made it so dangerous. He says that Johnson just seems to fling the ball but if you look closely, you can see that he actually engages his hips every time he throwa. He's using good mechanics but because he made it look sloppy and half speed the batter would just naturally be caught off guard when the ball came flying in

Arguably the greatest pitcher ever.

He also has the most oWAR of any pitcher Al time

His motion was actually part of his appeal - He threw 100 MPH while barely looking like he's moving at all... When you see that motion, it looks like he's tossing, and it takes a second to catch up to the difference between the speed of the pitch and the speed of his motion, and by then you're too late.

Most of the film of WJ throwing is him warming up. The few videos we have of him in a game have him using his hips, body turn, and a long, loose efficient throwing action with a whip-like follow through. I'd compare his motion favorably to Randy Johnson, and note that while WJ was only 6', he had very long arms for his height. According to the players that played during that era, the fastest pitchers up through the 1930's were Walter Johnson and Smokey Joe Wood. Many of the same players who faced them, say they compared their fast balls to that of Bob Feller, who, by modern speed gun standards, had a fast ball well in excess of 100mph.

Did you turn into Philip Defranco in the beginning?

(hey)

His pitching is so different compared to today's strikeout heavy, 3 true outcomes plate strategy for both hitters and pitchers. He had a lot of strikeout for sure, though considering his innings load, his strike out rate is actually considerably lower than modern power pitchers, generally only around 5 or 6 per 9 innings. Not much by today's standards. So batters put a lot of balls in play against him. But he rarely issued walks and his batting average for balls in play was consistently and incredibly low. No one could get solid contact on him. Perhaps it was his weird motion. He also managed to strand an unusually large percentage of runners. Even though he is considered a power pitcher (and was for the time) he was really as much a crafty game manager. Either way, he did it better than anyone.

You forgot something. There wasn't much team behind him throughout his career. The Senators were perennial losers. I read that Glory of Their Times as a kid (AWESOME book btw for true baseball historical types) and someplace in it somebody made the comment to hit Walter Johnson was like trying to eat soup with a fork.

I go to a high school named after him

All aboard the Trump AND Johnson Train!

That mlb the show gameplay🤣🤣🤣

need one on lefty grove. That's always been the question. How would the players of old stack up against modern. His mechanics was purposeful, to throw all game, they had to.

I think Walter Johnson had the most beautiful, least arm taxing throwing motion I've ever seen!!!

In childhood my life's ambition was to be a pitcher for the Tigers. I consumed every base ball book I could lay hands on, and threw with Walter Johnson's low side arm. The spin from it built in a natural slider but I could not control it. Can't everyone do it! To have a chance at throwing strikes, I changed to pitching like everybody else.

1 Cy Young, 2 Walter Johnson, 3 Christy Matthewson, 4 Warren Spahn, 5 Nolan Ryan

His throwing motion and mechanics was attuned to mastery of energy flow and whip effect. He understood power release like Bruce Lee...

It is funny that people today dismiss and disbelieve what those who were actually there and experienced it say. Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Babe Ruth, and Dizzy Dean seem to have used almost identical pitching motions, and to great success. Others surely did as well. All people are made different, and it surprises me that people and coaches try keeping young pitchers from even trying to use the pitching motion of the two winningest pitchers in baseball history. But then again, in 1974 when Tommy John surgery was first invented, several teams still used the 4 man pitching rotation and the 24 teams AVERAGED 42 complete games apiece, and Mike Marshall pitched in 106 games and worked 162 relief innings, and in both 1971 and 1972 both Wilbur Wood and Mickey Lolich worked over 350 innings. With all our advances in training methods and medicine, as well as financial rewards for players, one would think we would be progressing, and every team would have a couple guys tossing 15 complete games and 300 innings with a star reliever working 120 innings and winning at least 8 games per year. No wonder the older pitchers quietly mock today's pitchers who are paid for the quality of each inning, rather than what they did for their team over the season or seasons. Who's more valuable to a team, a guy who works 180 innings, goes 10-9 with 220 strikeouts,. 0 complete games, or a guy who works 280 innings, goes 19-11, strikes out only 95, with 17 complete games where relief pitchers weren't necessary and could be saved for other less talented starters? Sabermetrics made a mistake in not calculating the importance of innings, complete games, and victories. Count how many times a pitcher won 25+ games from 1960-1980.(17?) Then notice 25 victories has only been done ONCE since. Then count the 20- and 15- game winners 1960-1980. Now count those of 2000-2020. Baseball has been regressing for a long time, because pitchers are no longer even competitive with those of yesterday. They no longer win MVPs. They obviously do not have the respect. But hey, with their better training methods and medicine, they can have their high strikeouts and long careers. And keep sidearm pitchers out of the game. And only let girls play softball so there are more Dottie Millers who compiled a career record of 6 wins and 10 losses against all male opponents. I know that's not a great record. But how many major league games have you won? Given the chance, some real girl might surpass her one day

Your arm gets stronger the more often you throw. Something the modern game has gotten away from. It will be sore at first but it heals quicker if you do it on a regular basis. That was how those old timers used to pitch 40+ games a year. If you take 5 days rest then that is what your body will get used to.

Walter Johnson was the only member of the 3000 strikeout club for over 50 years and he still holds the record for shutouts with 110

I love the idea of him tossing up a meatball for one of his boys and just laughing when they hit it a mile

They didn't mess with his fluid throwing motion and look what happened. Perhaps a lesson to take away

I personally spoke to Bob Feller back in 2009. He told me that nobody threw harder than Walter Johnson. He said that Walter Johnson threw 108-109mph throughout a game. That isn't even his maximum speed. However, Feller did tell me that Johnson did not have the greatest change up. This guy in the video is wrong about the velocity. It's been proving on average to be the same back then, as it is today. Different pitches are thrown today, as back then.

Ruth batted against him and the ump called a strike, Ruth said I don't know it sounded high to me

I mean we didn’t start measuring the speed of pitches coming out of the hand until fairly recently even during Nolan Ryan’s era they tended to measure it at the plate which loses a few miles per hour so he could have been throwing 98 or 99 and given how the military was certainly measuring it as well as the fact he was well past his prime, I think he might be throwing harder than we think.

This is the kind of video that is going to propel me down a youtube rabbit hole. Tomorrow I may be a Walter Johnson expert

Johnson results speak for themselves. Problem with some of today’s coaches is they try to make everybody look alike. He was a natural talent, and you leave natural talent alone. An example of this would be the way Ty Cobbs held the with split hand grip. Babe Ruth batting stance was different, John Daly golf swing.

And WJ pitched all 21 years for the Washington Senators, which was a lousy team for most of those 21 years.

Johnson led the Senators to their only World Series title while the team was in Washington in 1924 (The Big Train won the seventh and final game of that series which went 12 innings). The Senators returned to the World Series in 1925 but did not win. It would be another 95 years before a Washington-based baseball team would win a World Series when the Nationals won in 2019.

I provided some research assistance to Henry Thomas' terrific bio of Johnson, who was his grandfather. I spent some quality time with his mom Carolyn, Walter's daughter, and they seemed to think his sidearm motion put less strain on his elbow and shoulder. I certainly agree that pitchers during his era didn't throw as hard as they do now. I sat with the great Shirley Povich of the Washington Post, who knew Walter quite well, and he talked about Walter coming down to the field in his street clothes and dress shoes in his late 40's and throwing harder than the much younger Washington pitchers on the staff. Johnson also had planned a comeback when he managed the club in the 1929-32 period when he was short a couple of arms. He abandoned those plans when his wife Hazel died unexpectedly. The greatest RHP of all time? No doubt.

It's kind of hard to measure exactly how fast Walter Johnson could throw a fastball (and he did it without winding up his entire body and risk blowing out his arm) as there was no device at the time that could measure the speed of pitches like today. But the fact that he stuck out 3509 batters a record that stood many decades until Gaylord Perry and Nolan Ryan came along is a good indication that his fastball was really fast.

If they know so much about today why do so many young pitcher's have Tommy John surgrey? I think Johnson's simple direct throwing motion is something he was blessed with.

This guy might be not only the best pitcher of all-time but the best player. He hit 24 career HRs playing 75% of his prime in the deadball era. He had 41 career 3Bs which is more than ARod & Pujols career totals. He fielded 1.000% 5 seasons and 3x while pitching more than 300 Innings, of course, using tiny gloves. His fastball was measured in a very dubious method in 1917 after he had pitched an average of 350 INNs the previous 7 seasons. That was not his ultimate fastball which compared well to any in the history of the game. Pro baseball began 150 years ago. There is very little new in the last 50 years or so. This is not brain surgery but a boy's game. Getting back to his incomparable pitching career, he won 20 games 5 times for a losing team. No other pitcher did that more than twice since 1900 and he won 38 1-0 games of which that number is more than the career total of SHOs by at least 37 HOF pitchers (of course, incl. relievers). BTW, 9 relievers in the HOF is utterly ridiculous. Thinking a pitcher who throws 70 innings a season is equal to one who throws 270 is absurd. The vast majority of closers save the vast majority of their games because the odds are strongly with them to not allow runs in one inning let alone facing 1 or 2 batters and the odds also say a 3rd of the time they are facing the bottom of the batting order. "The Big Train" might also be the greatest nickname in sports history.

The all-time great modern pitcher who was the most like Walter (Big Train) Johnson was another Johnson. Randy (Big Unit) Johnson. Randy Johnson had a similar motion to Walter Johnson in that he kind of slung the ball up to home plate instead of pitching or throwing it. Because of that neither of the Johnsons had a serious arm injury in their long careers. Also each of the Johnsons played on one World Series championship team. Walter Johnson with the 1924 Washington Senators and Randy Johnson with the 2001 Arizona Diamondbacks. Randy Johnson won 303 games and struck out 4875 batters in his career.

- *"They said his fastball was as fast as a train."* 80-85 mph? I suppose that was fast for back then.

That sidearm motion has a whiplash effect on the ball. Not to mention it was easier on the arm than other motions. What's astounding is that Babe Ruth had a winning record against Johnson when Ruth was a starter with the Red Sox.

Imagine if he threw a baseball...instead of a sponge

Let me help you decode Walter Johnson. Listen up. Carl Mays threw a pitch that killed Ray Chapman with a pitched ball on August 20th, 1920. Baseballs, prior to this time, that routinely went into the stands were retrieved, to be re-used. Dirty baseballs, used until they were like pillows. You're not going to drive a pillow over the fence. Ty Cobb leads the league in homers with ... 9. So..you threw the ball softly, with little need to bear down. This is how you can throw 250+ innings 19 times. Johnson's secret was 2.1 walks per nine innings, and 7 hits per nine innings. His WHIP, pre 1921, was excellent. After Chapman died, clean, new baseballs were put in play, after they left the field. It is COMPLETELY reasonable that this ended the "deadball era." Johnson gave up 61 homers his last 1400 innings, from 1921 on, and just 36 homers for 4500 innings prior to that. He went from one homer per 125 innings, to one homer per 36 innings. Sure, he had skill...but he was a product of the era he played. Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, any number of good pitchers from the modern era would have pitched as well, or BETTER.

6:26 that pitch is NASTY 😭😤

That's more of the natural throwing motion of the human arm, and if you ever saw Eddie Feigner in person you might agree with me.

Speed aside, I imagine that gauging the ball at release is more difficult with this style of pitch delivery

to get that speed out of a simple throwing motion makes this man SO impressive.