A great conversation. This is why people, especially young men, are abandoning the BBC and the rest of the corrupt legacy media for long-form independent podcasts like Rogan and Triggernometry.
"especially young men" C'mon man! Stop acting like a toxic-masculinity-laden spoiled brat! I say, you offended a lot of dames with that stereotyping. Shall we step outside for a minute?!
@@TheBobMings Why do you think Rogan has "former CIA" Mike Baker on his show periodically to promote pro-war narratives? Rogan also recently had a warmonger general called Mcmaster on his show.
Both men make reasonable points. Genuinely see both sides of the argument well put, consider both valid, and that is a refreshing feeling. Thank you for making these.
Russians are dying off, families are falling apart, (the nuclear family's collapsing in the West, though, due to toxic-masculinity-laden, anti-women transvestites' movement), people are on the bottle... and Putin is playing his shameful games. Wake up and ask him to step down Russian sisters and brothers and let's pull all together ! Русские вымирают, семьи рушатся (хотя на Западе рушится нуклеарная семья из-за нагруженного токсичной мужественностью, антиженского движения трансвеститов), люди на бутылке... а Путин играет в свои позорные игры. Пробудитесь и попросите его уйти в отставку Pусские сестры и братья и давайте сплотимся !
Yeah, thumbnail and title of video is very click baity, rather tabloid of Triggernometry. (I was holding of for the whole video/discussion, but since that isn't forthcoming I had to make do with the click-bait snippet)
I watched the whole thing earlier and then saw this and figured from the title it must be something else.. Yeah, a proper click bait title and thumbnail, pretty disappointing coming from Triggernometry to be honest.
Three blokes having a discussion in an appartment living room. Far superior to anything main stream news channels can produce. Keep up the good work Triggermen. 👍
Big respect to farage for coming on a podcast like this. Would never see the likes of Biden, Boris or Trudeau going anywhere near an honest and open conversation.
@@ObjectiveIndulgence There may be a valid argument here, but the way it is stated, with the closing insult, leaves one with absolutely no interest in pursuing it. Totally the opposite of the debate originally commented on. QED.
There was NOTHING "intelligent, informed or robust" about this "debate". It was just a bunch of neocons with posh british accents talking utter bullsh!t. If they had any other accent they would be seen for the hacks that they are.
Does Russia not ynderstand the nature of a 'border'? He only wanted Crimea (not ethnically Russian until they kicked out the indigenous Crimeans 70 years ago) because it is home to Sevastopol (base of their Black Sea fleet). Putin is just a power crazed pseudo strongman. Just what the Russians have always had (and all that they have ever known).
You can state your position the other person can disagree and that can be the end of it. Modern TV media has hosts arguing with guests and trying to catch them out or trying to change their mind can focus a whole interview on one minor detail.
I think Farage is a political force of nature and is very intelligent. However his morals are poor and his intentions very unclear. I point to Brexit and his role whithin the push. I don't trust anything his says.
@@thefootballgeek2345 'Morals'? Brexit has nothing to do with morality. It's a predominantly economic issue and an issue around sovereignty/self determination. You also called him 'very intelligent' but proceeded to say you don't trust anything he says. A lack of trust is a lack of respect.
Yes because the interviewers have a policy not to interrupt their subject. Nearly every other show (think Piers Morgan, Bill O’Reilly etc) ask a question and then interrupt 3 seconds into the answer and begin shouting.
@@mikedon5205 👍 Yes agreed, basically another disguised mainstream channel with novices trying to be experts. Excruciating & very misleading to the naive.
This manner of conversing on essential issues is the real marrow of social media (or should be). If only there was more of this manner of addressing the real issues in the corridors of power. Excellent stuff.
Spotify's response to the Rogan issue should have been to try to add this and other respected Podcasts to their programming.....More Free Speech is the best reply, the answer and the future.
I think the reason why this works so, so much better than alleged "discussions" on mainstream media, is simply because of intentions. The two sides (for want of a better word) in this debate actually WANT and INTEND to understand each other. The exact opposite of panels on MSM.
This looks like it's going to be a great episode. Opposing views, both allowed to be expressed with equal honesty and intensity... and received with mutual RESPECT. THIS is how it's done.
@@nickhardwell8016 Russia currently provides Europe with more than 40% of its natural gas supply, according to Eurostat. In exigent circumstances, officials said, Europe has a storage of liquefied natural gas that it could tap into, and European officials have been,. copy paste
Eventually Ukraine will either join NATO or the Russians. The current state of the country is unstable. And from my understanding it seems like Nigel Farage is proposing that we buy ourselves more time in this unstable state. I'm not sure how long this will last. Look at the Israeli-Palestinian, that's been going on for 50-odd years. To me, I'd rather just get it over and done with now. Dragging out a conflict is way more damaging over the long-term in my estimation.
@@ciaranperry4677 Says the guys with guns fighting the Russians. Says part of my family (Russian speakers) who want to be part of a Ukraine ruled by Kiev not Moscow.
It's hard not to agree with both arguments but I think the reason why Nigel could be more correct in his position in the short term is because we don't have the moral or societal cohesion to engage Russia right now. Most western countries are entirely divided internally and have entirely different worldviews being shaped by media narratives and over reaching governments. While our politicians divide us it would be foolish of foreign countries not to look to expand. Nigel's solution could buy us time, but if we continue down this pathway and attempted show of strength would be counterproductive.
MSM dividing us more than the politicians. Politicians react to what they believe public opinion is. MSM creates public opinion. The scariest thing going on right now is happening in msm. They are working totally against the mainstream populace. I suspect because these days msm are liberal elites educated at posh universities and they believe they know what needs to be known and are correct and morally superior.
I couldn't agree more. It's hard for the West to pose as a credible arbiter and example when we have nothing to offer but division and self-hatred on every level. Hell, it's so bad that even a North Korean refugee is apalled at how low the US Universities have fallen. When we no longer believe in the very values that made us what we are, it's no wonder we are no longer taken seriously.
KK comes across as hugely out of his depth lately. I find him difficult to watch nowadays. Francis seems much more level headed and the more intelligent of the two
Without the US military the EU is a joke. We don't even keep up with the promised budget of 2% for military.. so how can we protect ourself. And then u have like 20 countries with they're own command structure and language.. eu should build just own nato, but still remain as an ally to nato. We need to put atleast 5% of gdp to build a smart defense against Russia and nuclear deterrence. We can't rely on usa. Their internal problems are too great.
@your [sic] reviews He probably is more informed than msm, or people like you. Don't watch then; go listen to your own echo chamber if civilised debates go over your head.
The right question is what would the US have to do to make Canada and Mexico want to be in an alliance with Russia. Exactly. Ukraine wants to join NATO because long before this crisis Russia's hostile intentions were known to it.
@@user-wm5rt9pw5l stop it. Russia doesn't want Kiev and Crimea was always historically Russian. This whole "Russia wants to attack Ukraine" is false narrative which West is serving to public as an excuse to attack Russia. Read "Grand Chessboard" from Brzezinski to understand this geopolitical move.
@@Kodreanu23 The narrative is so clearly false, - It's up there with Trump is racist, Jan 6 was an insurrection, and BLM care about black lives as far as mainstream media fake narratives go.
@@Valosken 2) Did you vote Tory as the lesser of 2 evils, or perhaps because you like your local MP so much? 2)Would you vote Tory again if Johnson survives to the next general election in '24?
@@jackrainbow560 Lesser of 2 evils. I rarely do this, but thought that honouring the Brexit vote was of extreme importance, even just in setting precedent. I probably would not, no.
@@Valosken But, based on what we now know about Tory policy as identical to David Lammy's beliefs in respect of betraying Brexit by unwanted immigration, buying energy from Russia to pretend we are green, silencing dissent by means of hate speech laws, forcing white children to feel guilty because of their skin colour by implementing CRT in the curriculum and forcing the Army to attend diversity and inclusion lectures would you not utterly reject the Tory party by withholding you vote at the next election?
I see what you are saying but then that also means Ukraine are not allowed to decide their own course and are still indirectly under the yoke of Russia.
You can't just "subscribe" to NATO. There is a lengthy application process and all NATO members have to accept a new member. Ukraine was never considered as a member of NATO, precisely because NATO doesn't want to offend Russia. However Ukraine was promised protection against russian aggression in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons. Russia wants NATO to break their promise, thus undermining NATO's credibility and make Ukraine more susceptible to russian influence, subversion and bullying.
How has Russia been continually expanding westwards? Since the fall of the Warsaw pact countries and the USSR Russia has shrunk. The eastern Baltic's are independent, Ukraine and Belarus became independent along with some of the southern states. I don't understand how you can say Russia is expanding continually?
russia is pretty much in charge of belarus and it used to be in charge of ukraine up until 2014. russia lives by its past of soviet union and is seeking to reestablish its spheres of influences on the countries that used to be under it (meaning, most of Eastern European countries). it is going western in terms of its territory, although Soviet Union has fallen apart a long time ago. that's part of the reason why Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland etc feel the most threatened by russia, they're the next closest countries to Russia after Ukraine and they actually were under the soviet, aka russian influence for a long time the problem with russia is that the west always tries to pacify it, put it on pause. but its not going to solve the issue really. look at what happened in Georgia back in 2008 - same thing happened to Ukraine. if russia is going to be pacified again and ukraine loses, the cycle will just continue. in fact, if Ukrainian war was taken more seriously by the west back in 2014, we wouldn't be here right now (perhaps). instead russia decided to expand the battlefield in 2022. that's how they're going western if you ask me
@@dariashoe Russia doesn't need to be pacified, the west, especially the US and UK do. NATO has been the problem Russia has faced since the end of WW2 with its constant expansion eastwards with the placement of armies and missiles right on the Russian borders facing Russia. This is one of the main reasons Russia feels threatened coupled with the US indoctrination and hatred of Russia. Did you know Russia apparently discussed with Clinton about becoming a NATO member but Clinton refused support? The russian issue could have been resolved decades ago if the hatred was put aside from the US politicians.
@@andyhemmings7363 yes, i know that at some point of time russia wanted to be a part of nato. putin spoke about it publicly but for some reason they never applied for being a member. honestly, i see why it may be the west’s fault - they thought they’ve won the cold war and underestimated russia’s power. however, it doesn’t take away the fact that Russia was the one who invaded both Georgia and Ukraine later on, which ultimately resulted in a bigger resistance between the west and russia. they basically did it to themselves, really. nato wasn’t always anti russian, it became like that because of russia’s actions. what i think is more important here is that the russian hatred towards the west is much bigger than western’s hatred towards russia. i mean, the whole russian identity is built on anti-americanism. you may not think so, but i bet watching a few russian political tv shows & street interviews will change your mind. all they do is say how bad the west is and blame it for everything. even for the things they did to themselves
@@dariashoe there's always two sides to every coin but without a doubt, western propaganda against the east far outweighs any other in veracity. I'm not defending any country for attacking another but I point out that since WW2, the US has either invaded or attacked more countries around the world than any other. Normally under the lame excuse of bringing democracy to that country but in reality it was about oil or American geopolitical influence and control over some resource that kills countless of civilians and destabilises those countries back into the dark ages. The world, especially the west and in particular the US, need to stop warmongering or interfering in countries that have nothing to do with them.
If only Farage followed through and ran for PM all those years ago instead of stepping down from politics. As much as many people hated the guy, I think a short stint of him in control would have made massive long term differences to this country and put the UK back on the right track.
NATO's expansion since the Cold War has resulted in NATO being weak and fractured. Hungary's Orban is friendly with Putin, Czech Republic is buying Russian military equipment, Croatia blames the US for the escalation and wants to withdraw troops stationed in NATO contingents if war breaks out. And in order for Ukraine to join NATO, every member state has to vote in favor. If one of the countries listed above vote against it, Ukraine can’t join. And that’s the problem with accepting every country that wants to join. Eventually your alliance is filled with countries that are more pro-Russia than pro-US
Orban plays off all the major powers, or at least did when Trump was in the WH. I recall seeing first hand Xi's motorcade whizz into Budapest in 2017 - Hungary is a planned terminus of PRC's Silk Road/Rail initiative. Orban is not 'friends' with Putin he simply has to be pragmatic. Similarly Finland. He ain't Nordic though so he's expressive - a smile and a handshake with Putin hurts no-one.
@@celtspeaksgoth7251 Hungary signed a 15-year natural gas deal with Gazprom in September last year, and Orban recently asked for an increase in gas supplies from Russia and Putin has promised to deliver. It just goes to show that some NATO countries are on good terms with Russia, which means it will be difficult to achieve a cohesive policy on Russia. Maybe I went too far when I said NATO is fractured, but there are definitely internal disagreements
It is not possible for Ukraine to join NATO. If it were I suspect that they just like the Baltic states and Poland would be a much more valuable member and contributor than Germany, France and Turkey who often seek to undermine it.
I agree with Nigel 1000%. This pecking away through NATO expansion is pathetic and makes us look weak and unable to deal with Russia on our own terms. Trump shook up Kim, because he projected determination. We can project convincing determination through reasonable demands and following through on threats without saying "My Dad is bigger than your Dad".
@@Kefuddle That’s just a nice way of saying capitulation that will probably lead to a proxy war between the East and the West, with the Middle East and South Asia playing one side off against the other.
@lochnessmonster5149 Shame the West is spending so much time in "preparing invasions". Appearantly Putin needs no time to prepare invasions.. he just does it.
Buffer zones weren't the primary way they tried to prevent war back then, it was massive alliances that guaranteed any war would be as destructive and as bloody as it could possibly be. A kind of pre-nuke MAD (mutually assured destruction). Didn't work but at least they tried, I suppose.
No one wants to go to war but you cannot be weak and let Russia do what ever they want. Just look at WW2 and realise how we could have stopped it sooner of we hadn't capitulated
What is this strange behaviour, posing reasoned arguments towards each other and challenging them? Seems vaguely familiar from something long long ago.
Its funny how Farage explains Russia's POV about the NATO encirclement. Is he aware that this is the same view Germany in 1939 took of the British encirclement against Germany.
@@robertthompson176 It's pretty comparable. Nato is clearly designed against Russia and Chamberlain's "Peace Front" guarantees were clearly designed against Germany.
Hitler took Czechia, Austria, Poland and Norway before he made any move toward Britain. Hitler's ideology was to expand east to get farmland and raw resources from the Untermenschen lands to feed German industry. Hitler never wanted war with Britain, he wanted war with Russia. 1939 Germany is not 2023 Russia. Comparisons are tenuous at best. If anything the junta government in Ukraine is more like 1939 Germany, they too are wanting to expand east into Russian land as evidenced by the broken Minsk treaties. 27 million Russians died fighting against nazi Germany, how do you think their families would react to you comparing Russia to nazi Germany?
Watching this 11 months later. The line "some women called Liz Truss who somehow became Foreign Secretary, I don't know how" made me laugh. What happened next? 🤣
It almost feels like I am looking at a chess board and seeing the pieces being moved into place, in a calculating way for whatever the plan is. In hindsight, especially.
Two statements are true simultaneously: 1) NATO expanded too far eastward, largely as a reward to the Baltic countries for supporting America during the Iraq war. This has overstretched collective commitments in the face of a rising China, including nuclear commitments, with Russia paranoid having a military alliance 150km from St Petersburg. 2) Lithuania, Latvia & Estonia are remarkable democracies that stand for freedom, human rights, sovereignty of the individual, and western liberal tradition. They have horrendous experience of foreign occupation and deserve their security and territorial integrity. The challenge is to square that circle , which is possible (and I have many ideas) but certainly not simple. -- Crispin.
2 года назад
Stalin has started Finish war because he was paranoid 'border too close'.
Seems like Baltic states didn't care that much about human rights of their Jewish population. Out of 120.000 Lithuanian Jews 90.000 were exterminated by Lithuanian volunteers.
I think one point to add to Nigel's argument is that historically, allying with a weaker border country as a form of military deterrent has often failed in the past. Look at the UK's treaty with Belgium in WW1 and how that decision ultimately cost around 1 million British lives. I'm all for standing up against dictators like putin who have no respect for the sovereignty of their neighbours but signing ourselves up for potential conflict with a nuclear power cannot be taken lightly.
This discussion truly is a breath of fresh air... I disagree with on many things but here I was surprised to hear him speak so rationally and empatheticly. I also love that Konstantin held him to account, pressed him, asked precise follow up question and it was all genuine! Big Like!
Fiery debate ? Just seemed like a good honest discussion between grown ups with differing views. What a refreshing change , looking forward to the full interview.
I agree with Mr. Farage. We in the West might have the better culture and system but at this point in time, with our moronic leaders, we would be in deep trouble facing off resolute tyrants. Playing a waiting game is the least terrible option.
@@zerocontent6168 Name one culture which is better ? Iran where women are forced to wear headscarves ? India where rape culture is out of control and they still have a caste system ? China where they are committing genocide ? Come on genius , name one !
There is no buffer zone for Russia if they invade sovereign independent nations which would remove the buffer zone and give them more of a border than they have always had with NATO anyway.
@@johnmknox That buffer zone potentially are about to becomes allies with Russia’s perceived enemy. They’re only going to invade because the buffer zone is removed the moment Ukraine joins NATO. Blame the Ukrainians, they’ve allowed puppet leaders for Russia and the west to run their country rather than vote for an independent that cares only about the Ukraine.
Well done, Nigel! Keep in mind that a wide perspective is a rare thing these days... We are so limited to the 6-inch window that we struggle to even see ourselves through...
@@miacat1727 I think the original plan wasn't to invade but to apply pressure and hope that Kyiv could crumble, and that Ukraine would federalise, devolving power to its regions, which Moscow could play off against each other. But as that plan hasn't worked, we're now in unknown waters, and we don't know what his Plan B is.
@@jascu4251 Why does Ukraine want to join NATO when an agreement disallowing it, is in place. Why does US not give Russia the guarantees they have asked for in this respect. Russia know if Ukraine are accepted into NATO the East will be flooded by western influence. US, UK need to stop meddling & get off Russia's borders & take NATO with them, Ukraine can then have their war with Russia, if they dare.
@@miacat1727 Great question, I think that explains well why Russia doesn't want Ukraine in NATO for sure! But Ukraine can still want membership even if Russia doesn't like it I think? Ukraine is a free country and can ask to join NATO or any other organization can't it? I do understand that Russia might not want NATO on its borders, although I think Ukraine might not want Russia on its borders (or inside its borders!)
I'm with Nige on this one. Agree with KK that Russia and China respect strength but agree with Farage that not asking Ukraine to join NATO is a strong move geopolitically. Also, when Nige asked KK what he would do KK replied, I think, that he wasn't necessarily saying that Ukraine should join NATO but, unless I missed it, he didn't say what we should do. The military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about are itching for this war to kick off.
I'm a big fan of Triggernometry, but I think this excellent short interview between George Galloway and Andrew Korybko better explains the current Russia/Ukraine situation: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5dEIJlBLPZ8.html
@@vandecasa3795 So when I go around killing your friends and then move into your backyard and then people tell me to stop that would be "Appeasement " ? Thats what the US did... They went around the world lunching coups, sanctions and invasions against who? Russian allies... and now they are in their backyard.
@@Torquemadia When the Soviets had military installations in Cuba the American's were kicking up a fuss. Anyone with a brain can see Russia/China are being enveloped by the US and their NATO Allies. If the Chinese or Russians had done the same to the US, we would be pretty angry about it too. Without buffer states you only end up antagonizing your so called opponent.
Nato should probably have been disbanded after the soviet union collapsed. Instead it expanded eastwards towards Russia despite USA's assurances at the time it never would. If the shoe was on the other foot the Americans would be hysterical..
Absolutely right. Plus the US has spread Sunni jihadism all over the Middle East, supporting Saudi Arabia to devastate the Yemen, causing the disasters in Iraq, Libya and Syria (causing floods of refugees and fuelling the far right in Europe) ... supports Islamic terrorist secession in Xinjiang, supports insurrections and coups all over the place, and this promotes ‘western values’?! The export of ‘democracy’ is a total fraud and that’s why poor countries would prefer their sovereignty respected by Russia and China in economic deals that don’t involve political subversion - even if they are authoritarian regimes themselves. Just compare the foreign policies of the strongest powers and ask yourself who’s expansionist and aggressive! Jesus, it’s not hard
@@nordahlgrieg2738 Er - you haven’t heard about the Bay of Pigs? You know where Guantanamo is? Have you any idea of how many failed assassination attempts the US made on Castro? And the 60 years of the economic blockade...
@@ebflegg Bay of Pigs were an invasion by cuban exiles - similar to the separatists in Donbass, financed and directed by Russia USA never invaded with regular forces and only threatened to do so, when Russia was half way installing nukes there. So Russia can only claim a right to invade after USA starts installing missiles in Ukraine. Which of course has not and will not happen.
The West is weak, indeed Konstantin! We're more concerned with renaming sports teams and trying to silence Whoopi Goldberg than issues of real importance. Weak AF.
I love you KK but I'm with Nigel here. There was no evidence whatsoever that Russia was interested in expansionism prior to 2008, then NATO announced how it welcomes Ukraine and Georgia's aims to join. Two weeks later Medvedev's (Putin's) troops are storming the Georgian border. The only solution here is for the EU and Russia to work together on rescuing the Ukrainian economy and agreeing on no further NATO expansionism. The same one proposed by Putin in 2014 which was aggressively rejected by the EU after their speech on further supporting Ukraine's EU membership ambitions. Remember that? Two weeks later Crimea became Russian. Every time there's talk of Ukraine and NATO or Ukraine and the EU in the West, Putin makes a move in return. The West has never had any interest in Ukraine being part of NATO, it's never given two craps about Ukraine in any way shape or form, yet Russia has consistently expressed its wishes that Ukraine remain neutral, only neutral, and all we ever do is poke the hornets nest and provoke a fight over a piece of land we don't care about. The West caused this mess, and the only people who will end up coming out of this with bloody noses are Western Ukrainians and America.
Nice story, but it doesn’t add up. Putin became aggressive against Ukraine long before 2008. Look up “Tuzla island 2003” and “Russia-Ukraine gas war” (started at least in 2005).
Konstantin, thanks for this part about Ukraine. This is exactly what I would want to ask Nigel, being somewhat conservative and Ukrainian myself. Same as you - I'm not satisfied with what I've heard. I don't think that Western Europeans quite thought it through.
Thank you for what you do lads. Real debate by adults with time given for a deep dive into serious issues. No wonder the dying legacy media are worried. Your channel should not be demonetised.
The problem is Russian borders are to close to NATO weapons. NATO approved solution is that Russia must move its borders back a couple hundred miles. Anyone see any problems with this solution ?
Russia and formerly the USSR has ALWAYS had a shared border with NATO nations. The opposite to what you say is also true in that Russian weapons are close to sovereign countries that may or may not be NATO members. NATO doesn't actually have offensive weapons in a lot of the border nations to Russia. However on the other hand Russia does have offensive weapons on its border and in Kallingrad. Remember that it was Russia under Putin who violated the INF missile treaty and Trump then subsequently pulled the US out of it too and suspended its obligations.
An excellent and intelligent discussion. A rare find indeed these days. Thank you for this. We lost an Empire by drip-feed. The Russians lost it in a year. They have never recovered from the trauma. We are now living through their desire to return to their world of pre-1990 just as Hitler wanted to return to a world pre-1919. Unlike last time, we have to show genuine collective security. We will not fight over the Ukraine as we would and did not fight over the Sudetenland or Czechoslovakia. The real question is this: Will the Baltic states be the 'New Poland.'? It is time to get our act together and now.
@@claudeyaz Farage makes a very telling point when he implies that if all an organisation can do is expand, then it has lost its sense of purpose and direction. The European Union, one suspects, will find that its very expansion is its downfall. One only has to think back to before Christmas when both Hungary and Poland were being discussed as being nations who should be expelled from the EU. Then suddenly, we have the events in Belarus, and Poland is suddenly the shield and guardian of the Union. Signs of a creaking organisation. If the EEC had stayed as the EEC and had maintained its membership pre-1st January 1973, it would have been far more coherent and stronger as an organisation. Equally NATO, with members that include Turkey, is now so bent out of shape, so to speak, as to be useless in terms of ‘joined up’ collective security. MORAL: You are far better off being smaller and coherent than widely spread and chaotic.
In 2022, the question is how is the American Empire handling it's over extension. It has withdrawn from Afghanistan. It will not withdraw from Iraq, as there are Hydrocarbons there. Will it withdraw from The Ukraine? I doubt it. It did not allow Chile to leave CIA control for a long time.
Thanks for insightful info. The truth is globalization, NATO expansion, EU expansion and militarization of Europe is about everything, except security, equality and economic stability. Bulgaria joined the EU in 2007. Today, nearly one-third of Bulgarian population live outside Bulgaria, and an average person in Bulgaria earns just about $350 a month. More than two decades, people have been told that the country is part of NATO and EU, and it is on the way to climb the ladder of economic progress.
Ukraine fared much better as a 'buffer state'. After the illegal coup, it cut all ties with Russia and since then its economy is in the toilet. All while any pro-Russian voices are being silenced, even prisoned. DeMocRacY my a$$.
The Americans paid 3 billion for the coo. The reason for it was Ukraine decided not to join the EU in 2013 because Putin gave them a better deal, then Biden and Obama stepped in ilegal and then hunter Biden was signed as CEO of an energy company, this leads us to the laptop found in 2020.
Do I hate listening the West talking about Ukranine as we're some bargaining chip and not real people? Absolutely. Was it refreshing to hear this guy being so honest about his position instead of those annoying "we're deeply concerned"? ABSOLUTELY.
Yeah but Nigel didn't give it Boris Johnson did with his fucking stupidity to fulfil his political ambitions
2 года назад
"The cold war...Russia was far more scared of us than we were of them." I'm assuming the "us" is the UK? Not Hungary in 1956, Prague in 1968, Poland yet again in 1981, Chernobyl in 1986 which gave us all in Europe a taste of Soviet efficiency...As for "buffer zones" the Soviet satellite states were not buffer zones or neutral Finland. They were under the boot of an authoritarian regime, where only Russian as a foreign language was allowed.
Trump’s language would have prevented the Ukraine situation from happening. I explained this to an American couple in a restaurant in Venice in 2016. I hope they are keeping well.
To understand why US/UK are high profile ref. Ukraine .. I recollect that when the USSR broke up, Ukraine were persuaded (by the West) to pass their many nuclear weapons back to Russia .. in return for guarantees from the USA and UK that they would safeguard Ukraine's sovereignty. I'm surprised no-one mentions this in the present debate, it seems like the most important reason why US/UK have a responsibility there.
I agree. This is a fundamental missing part of the debate. Ukraine was the 3rd largest nuclear power after the fall of the Soviet Union. The West persuaded them to give up their nukes. Russia wouldn’t be considering invading them if they still had said nukes.
Well, I am an ardent remainer, but Nigel Farage is absolutely right to suggest Ukraine does not join Nato. Notwithstanding Putin being a monster, you have to take Russia's fear of Nato seriously. To have nuclear weapons close to your border, pointing directly at you is a ludicrous situation as Cuba demonstrated.
Wow. Stellar clip! Totally lucid and respectful conversation on the topic from differing perspectives genuinely trying to find a good answer. This is what I’m here for.
