War Thunder P51D30 vs Bf109s | What Can Germany Do? 

Your partner is a turn fighter pilot. If german pilot (and you) used energy fighting manuevers all the 109's supposed to take down p51

K-4 is my 2nd most used vehicle and im around level 80, I can't recall ever losing a dogfight (while being fully upgraded) in the K-4 to any P-51-D. Only to the P51-H, which is a better plane in every way that deserves to be 6.7

Lol this video have 8k views while the response to this one have 52k

i could dogfight you in a bf110g-2 its call headon

Now you make a mistake here Adam the BF-109 can drain any aircraft energy making it stall and become an easy target for the BF-109

I gotta say that I mostly agree with Benjo. The K4 really sets the pace of the fight when played properly. But if it’s what the average War Thunder player considers a “dogfight” as in close up turnfighting, the P51 wins. Essentially what this dumbs down to is different ideas of a dogfight, different styles of playing, different experiences, and more.

What can germany do? Fly a 2 circle, I guess. Never had significant trouble with P-51s when I managed to avoid 1Cs or downwards rollers because of that energy bleed it has.

I feel like nearly all the german fighters have been up-tired by gaijin, k4 should not be at the BR its at

I watched both this video and the rebuttal video and here’s my two cents: -the k4 managed to gain some advantages via new buffs and nerfs to the mustang, and there are of course changes that occur as the two videos have fair gaps of time in between -I felt that the guy in the rebuttal video was a bit unfair. He said in a comment to a comment that he only loaded minimum fuel, which would give the k4 an advantage in a dogfight where one is allowed to run and gain altitude, which was another thing that I felt was unfair as you turned, probably expecting him to turn too, and bled your energy while he climbed and gained an energy advantage. I feel like there should be rules to the dogfight stated in the video so that both parties know what to expect -despite what I said in the previous point, the guy running is fairly accurate of what would probably happen in an actual battle in the case that the k4 and the mustang were at equal altitudes. Although I get called a coward a lot, when I’m using a German (only halfway to k4, mainly use the f4) and someone is trying to get me to turnfight and I know that they turn better, I just extend before it’s too late and hope that I can get an energy advantage. I find that this ability of the Germans to be higher than the allies and completely dictate the fight due to their energy abilities makes it very difficult to play Americans. The only allied planes I have a decent chance of a reversal in with the current state are the spitfires due to their jack-of-all-trades kind of flying and poor MER that helps Germans overshoot. -I find it really hard to play mustangs with the current situation, excluding the p51h which I think is ridiculous. I’ve been really trying to do well in a d30, but I find that even my trusty 109 f4 can outperform it easily. I tried a match with a d30 today and 109gs were already above me even though I was higher than most of my teammates. Meanwhile, I tried a match in my f4 and got a full 5.0 uptier and I found myself toying with the enemy d30. I feel like there should be a way to balance the nations out, which is extremely difficult as historical accuracy won’t really be helpful. In my opinion Gaijin shouldn’t push for new vehicles even though the war thunder reddit page is full of suggestions and just try to balance it all out. Sure in a controlled dogfight a d30 will stomp an f4 but in reality I find my f4 stomping the d30.

I watch you fly the P51 and it's beautiful. Makes me try and go up again Germans and I just turn into a flaming ball of fire. So I rage quit and slam my laptop closed.

I get both sides of the argument and have also noticed how easily some flaps rip as opposed to others. I saw the video with Braile or whatever his name was. I agree with him. All things being equal including pilot ability you aren't like to win a fight with a K4. But on flip side I agree that in a furball the D-30 has advantage. And granted the reality of a full stocked game of players and you get the drop on one and a furball inevitably ensues you can handle it in the Stang. Dude seemed most interested in proving that a K4 with the slack to fly at its strengths would win. It's a big part of the problem with playing German teams in general especially if you want to play American. They'll almost always have altitude advantage unless you play hide and seek half the game it seems. Only the P47 really holds a candle to them when played to IT's strength.

In the 2nd fight you made some very weird time consuming maneuvers that did not help you in any way and i have no idea why you did those. Like pitching straight up forcing yourself into an uncontrolled stall and loss of a whole lot of energy. I feel like if you guys actually played as 109s should be played (upwards spirals and vertical scissors) this verdict would be the reverse. You're just trying to force a plane into a role it's not suited for and with proper situational awareness it will never get into.

The Ta152H even stomps the P51-H at the conditions you set, so no chance you can beat it in an d30.

Bias. Let me fly the 109 and we will see what happens. I like the P-51 but the 109 cancan do many things better than the p-51

With the K4 I always wreck any D30, if I'm on altitude I have almost all advantages and I'm certainly faster. D30 are easy prey, I fear way more a spitfire

Lol the K 4 made EVERYTHING wrong what he could do wrong, normally a p 51 D should have no chance (like it was also in reallity - Mustangs were only good if they fought in large groups 1 vs 1 they had no advantage over the K 4)

Is nobody going to talk about how superior the guns on the 109 are compared to the 51? The 50s are reliable and easy to aim, but thats about it. One solid hit from a german 20 and your wing is gone. Takes some work with 50s to take down a 109,

Why is there so many dislikes ?

No proper 109 pilot engages anything in a turnfight. Whoever does so in a game will learn not to do it again right away, or whoever did so in reality has likely lost the chance to fly that plane again.

This comparison is so wrong I feel that you are a fan boy of p51 Even another RU-vidr criticized this video

I think I may have been here and been rude before and I apologize for that but I do have problems still: -The bf 109s in this video were not played to their strengths(most of the time), they were played more to the P51s -The guns on the P51 are not better they are very different, and excel at different things -I don’t feel that the 109 and all other German props should be considered inferior to the P51 because the aren’t as good at turning. The 109 is an energy fighter, it shouldn’t be used in this way against a turn fighter

ouff... here after watching benjo's reacting and duel with you .... feel bad for ya

I hate to tell you all bit one thing you got to remember also is the wing design. The P51 was a high altitude fighter with its laminar flow wings. So at low altitudes it truly sucks without flaps, the 109 pilot should be able to out turn him all day long on the deck. That's in real life too.

Short summary : it turns slightly better. Yeah, I kinda thiiiiiiiink I'm gonna stick with the 109s. I think comparing how the planes both perform in actual combat would be more accurate. Because I don't know if this can accurately be applied in RB.

war thunder wont be war thunder without germany

Haha good 109 can give you a run for your money

I agree 100% with you and i would add that if D30 is very hard to beat in a german prop in 1v1, the P51 H5 NA makes it simply impossible. You only die if you comit a really bad mistake. I have replays of i joining in dog fights with the H5 NA even against horten 229 and still out turning them then killing. P 51 H5 Na is such a beast of machine, surprises me that some german props have highter br than the P51 H5 NA.

during the g14 fight, i noticed sparing use of rudder (as in a snap rudder roll) during the downward spiral portion of the fight. Why not kick the rudder hard and roll more into his spiral possible leading to an advantage in the larger scheme of the turn? also, i assume you use SPD in game is because you can quickly monitor IAS on the local host.

But why is this 109 flying like that... not the planes fault. It all comes down to what the pilot is doing

How do you remember the flight specs for each plane? I just jump in and push it 110%.

In a duel 109s with a decent pilot will crush most P-51s (in a duel) in a turnfight/dogfight Bf-109s will get demolished but if you’re trying to turn fight or dogfight in a 109 one of 2 things has happened, 1. You’re a noob pilot who doesn’t know how to fly a Bf-109, or 2. You got to greedy for a kill and made the mistake of burning your energy for the kill. So technically this video is correct in saying P-51 is better in a dogfight/turnfight But if you’re saying it out preforms it in every form of air fighting then you’re wrong. I would honestly just chock it up to majority of german pilots not knowing how to use their planes causing the 109 to get a bad wrap along with other german fighters, if all of the players of german fighters were decent (at mid to higher BRs) they would steam roll or at the very least be doing way better in their win ratios (I personally know I’m not a great pilot of any nation I’m below decent) and on top of that I prefer the Fw-190 Not a fan of 109s or p-51s Both great, but I have my favorite. Hope this is not to bad of an argument I came from the other video (benjo) trying to out right attack you on this tbh you both are correct in certain respects as I stated above.

I haven't played war thunder in a long time but your videos have convinced me to download it again. I'm enjoying flying my mustang again

As I have been flying in the K4s for over a year, I'd say that most skilled pilot won't do the thing that this 109 pilot are doing. Things will work out diffrently in the real RB. The only thing that will tell which plane is better is the pilot behind the stick. That's all. I hope you understand.

3:34 i think the k4 would have won if Dogeness did not lose flaps

da hell? Why did the K-4 follow the D-30 in a diving spiral followed by a scissors?? At 1:50 he does the first good move, but it's too late because he's already damaged.

I feel like most of the people who dislike this video are the same ones who think that Germany is hellishly OP. It's not. Their only big advantage is climbing (and these days, 20mm's), and although it appears more in RB than in this video, that's it. Allied teams that get their shit together and use teamwork club these planes. Admittedly, that doesn't happen too often.

I immediately thought g14 would have the best chance. In my experience, g14 was the only bf109 that I could even turn around with a p51 and semi reliably make the opponent get bored out of the fight. Don't know why but k4 feels like a donkey.

why does this video have so many dislikes i cant see a reason

lol so many people malding

Adam, be respectful and say gg to dogeness😭

Hey, how were you able to maintain that G-load at 0:28?

"He flew the plane correctly by fighting in the vertical" to "I got sucked into a downward turning spiral, therefore Bf 109 < P-51D" The plane didn't get sucked into flying to the P-51D's strengths, you did.

at 5:33 you see one of the worst parts of the BF-109. for some unknown reason, the rudder goes against the direction you want to go, and makes the plane unable to move, unless you manually turn the rudder to the other side. I mean look at it, it is literally pulling the plane to the right, even though Adam's cursor is to the left of the plane! This is because it wants to use the rudder to roll over, yet this somehow makes you unable to roll at all

Only reason you won against that K4 was cuz they weren't fighting properly, 109's (particularly the later ones like the K4 and G6) are Boom and Zoom planes, they keep altitude, they dive down, and zoom upwards, and with superior energy retention and climb rate, and to an extent, firepower, you're never gonna catch the damn thing, all you could've done was sit there and wait to die. Majority of late 109's are absolutely not turn fighters, the G2 was one of the last 109's that could maneuver well (not sure about the 10 and 14) with later 109's like the G6 and K4 prioritizing firepower. In conclusion, no, the D-30 isn't better than a 109, I've taken down countless Mustangs in various 109's before, from the F4 all the way to the K4, the guy you were fighting was just an idiot

I think this result will surprise a lot of people :) I’ve always known the P-51D was a better turner than the 109Gs if it’s running comparable engine settings. I think the P-51D has a bad rep as a turner against 109s is because for the longest time it had only the 67”Hg boost and a shitty flight model. But this 75”Hg one which was standard after June 1944 feels much more like the P-51 from pilot reports who all say the P-51 could keep up with and out-turn their 109 adversaries. I really genuinely believe more P-51 pilots should just turn with 109s and 190s instead of just trying to run away all the time because they read somewhere P-51s are “boom and zoom” aircraft.

What can Germany do? | P51D30 vs Bf109K4 | Adam514 rebuttal

My good sir, if you meet a 109G6 or above who has half a brain, you wont win that dogfight

I really hate fighting with germany in air or ground at mid to low tier. The tigers always get uptiered and the bf 109s have a damn big ammount of disadvantages over almost all enemy planes at the same br. Also gajin really loves making german ww2 things fight way more modern things.

you are probably the only guy who says Made in Germany is Bad! well okey I got no problem with that

But against the Ta-152, the P-51 D-30 is still superior?

At first glance I thought this was some 2 year old video back when maybe things were different, then I saw it was only december last year... Sorry but this result is entirely down to the two of you, in a 1v1 duel the D30 doesn't stand a chance against a K4. The way you played these duels out is very very poor, go watch some decent/good tournament players and take a note or two...

Well the 109 is better at climbing so it will likely have the initial energy advantage, it can always put a p51 in a stall fight you should have flown up again instead of getting into a downward spiral

And then, theres the P51H5......

The wehraboos so damn mad lol, P51D30 shits on all at 5.0

I'm sorry but I used these same tactics with the D-30 and everything else around it is superior cause anything can just UFO up to it with ease, it can't turn, its rudder twitches uncontrollably past 300MPH, it has no role in the war thunder meta and should just be forgotten.

I once took down a D30 on an absurd superior energy state by just baiting it into a turn fight. Once mustangs turn, they die.

The only way I have ever shot down a d30 in any german plane was by a combination of luck and a lot of mistakes by the d30 pilot.

Adam do you still support your opinion that 109s should be at 5.0 max?

the other day i got into a good 5 minute duel with a d30 in my k4 that was half spaded..... let me tell you a story ;) it all started with him at mabye a tad higher with slightly better energy. he immediately went for the headon i fented but dodged then he climbed back up and being a not fully spaded k4 i was unable to accelerate with him i pulled off hoping that he would give me time to climb to a higher alt and slowly bring my energy up (to even the energy odds) but he sure wasn't going to let me do that so he positioned himself above and behind me. up untill this point i sort of played along for 2 reasons (1 there was a cloud deck not far below and 2 i am a comfortable defensive flyer) he took the "bait" and came charging after me. i initiated a defensive run and he stuck on instead of climbing back up. bye this time i get in a rolling scissors and then we promptly lose each other in the clouds :D a minute later i spot a speck while climbing up above the clouds. sure enough it was him but this time we were at equal energy states, this i s were the "duel" began. we murged and i got energy bye making a climbing turn to cut him off. It all evolved into a energy fight which then turned into a rolling scissors. i finally got on to his six comfortably. but he just put it into a flat turn and i was unable to draw lead. the energy states were getting lower and lower and he was out turning me easily. i went vertical and stalled into his line of movement and was able to get a shot off on his wing crippling him.... this ended the fight. the whole thing states that if the 109 pilot is good or the d30 pilot isn't, like all fights in all matter of planes it can still be decided with skill and or luck. but i do agree that the d30 is the better plane. my now spaded k4 though imo can take it on with a much higher chance of success being that it accelerates much harder thus making up for much of the energy lost in sustained maneuvering fights is still inferior but only slightly

And people say the p51 can’t dog fight.... Its really the player

Yeah, the P-51D-30 needs to be uptiered even further. No P-51D should be below 5.0. The D-30 itself can comfortably handle 5.3 and I would argue 5.7 wouldn't be unreasonable for it.

What are your thoughts after this duel? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uZsSmud8vvs.html Do you think this is a case the K-4 is quite good (if you ignore much better armament on P-51) or do you think he was just a very good pilot?

That is not the way you fly a 109

what a about a spitfire f mk 24 vs P-51-h?

Basically red tails

Adam how do u set up the match to fight with a teammate in sparring combat without letting other players in just to practice

Lol some wehraboo mad his k4 didn’t win disliked this video

Man, im so curious, do you play full realistic engine control in joystick? or you play that in mouse, if in mouse, I wanted to know how could you do that, whilst playing full realistic engine control needs joystick and you could play it in mouse control, could you make a tutorial for this????

P51D30 OP :D

Just so you know, its GLOC, not G-lock. G-lock is a common misnomer, as it somewhat makes sense, but is incorrect. GLOC stands for G-force Loss Of Consciousness.

If only David Attenborough narrated this.

It only stays normal when I put my flaps in combat mode???

For some reason my p51 doesnt turn faster than bf109. What speeds is he talking about?

Im new to war thunder and I have not researched the k4 yet I'm looking forward to it One question Adam do you play simulator Sorry for my bad English its not my first language

I came back for memories sake, good to know this was as crappy as a video as I remembered it

I personally think planes aren’t better than one another, rather the pilot. If you fly any plane to it’s advantage and any enemy plane to its disadvantage you can almost certainly defeat them.

No wonder why the p51 was so intimidating for the germans

dId DoGeNeSs JuSt SaY tHaT 1o9’s ArE tRaSh???

Why didn't he just climb?

Well then again this isn't a fair fight. 109s always needs altitude if he had altitude then you would have already be dead. And the 109 is not and never will be a turn fighter

Chief, the BF-109s are not turn fighters. . . They are energy fighters. . .

I myself is a P-51 pilot, and that's not how regular K4's battle, I'd only expect that play style of a K4 to be a beginner for the K4, usual K4's I face easily out climbs the 51 and can accelerate better at altitude, therefore I think you're just a 51 fanboy, not taking in the facts of the K4's advantages over than the 51s which is shown when you're playing the K4, so in my opinion, this comparison is wrong.

109s are so sturdy its not even funny

Why my P51 wable and my other plans doesn't?

the P51 had like 4 chances to finish it by the 2:00 mark

100% the pilot, Out preforming mustangs in 109's is relatively easy once you get the hang of it.

Thats Maybe right but the 109 have the advantage at the important stuff like rate of claim and acceleration and just those 2 reasons can make sure that the 109 always Will be above ord behind the p51

I will say that the 51 is more manuevarable but depending on alt but regardless why would you have followed a p51 in a g14 into a dive spiral turn it was suicide you should have kept altitude or simply extended and like u said the p51 lost a decent amount of power then why not attempt a BnZ maneuvers on the p51 since you have higher performance especially at higher alt.

Guns advantage over 109? How?

I think that you flew the G14 wrong. It's an energy fighter as most german planes. You are supposed to boom and zoom with it.

Never a p51 win me in my k4

The k4 is much better at energy retention than the d30. And the 109 would only commit to BnZ as it can climb better than the d30 and overall always have the energy advantage.

Well I love when these things(p51= chase me in the bf 109(in every variation) cause they think I am easy prey.

You said k4 is p51d killer and you changed

Hi! what graphics settings did you use in this video? it looks so cool! ty

Could defeat an P51D in a A6m5 otsu if they aren't always gonna run away until the end of the map everygame

Dora suffers

P-51 (D-5,D-20,D-30 and H) never been a problem for me, with a BF-109G10 i can easily energy trap an P-51D at high alt (never try at low alt) and always with the G10 is a little more hard against H, but i can always do that. Generally the stall fight at 6000-7000 meters work with 109G and K-4. Too with Yaks, is very easy because in Yak-9P (for example) i can turn fight any P-51D under 4000 meters, i can too energy fight well if i got more alt. P-51 are always almost easy, the true enemy is the Griffon spitfire (i mean mark 22 or 24)

The bf109 is NOT made for dogfighting.

Which game mode is this?