Btw I wanted to clarify the dev comments come from their official discord and the "big change" about the Bulwark was extremely vague. Also when I say melta I'm still referring to the melta charge nerf.
The bulwark is only class working now with the parry changes. That all classes and weapons have the same perfect parry start but different length before it's too late is good. That's the opposite of dodge and how the window for it should act
could possibly be the bug with chapter banner where at level 8-9 where you unlock the revival perk when you put the banner down also gave you maximum contested health which is a perk that is unlocked around level 23-24 now seems to be fixed
It's not that hard with the nerfs or cohesion me and two random stuck together and ran all 7 missions on lethal it was wild and crazy at times but a rush of fun and violence can't wait to get back on and help everyone else
@@kidink-_3782 what a weird idea, feels great to be surrounded by enemies, be thinking "WHERE ARE MY BROTHERS ?" and seeing them in the distance also surrounded making an absolute carnage
No step back!! We need to step FORWARD with bolters not BACK on equipment! Also, the classes are designed to be played further than 10M apart from each other...
The problem for me with Tight Formation is that it forces player behavior in the worst possible way. This kind of change will always be considered poorly by players because it ruins player agency. If they really wanna encourage players to stick close without making it a necessity, Tight Formation should be a buff instead of a nerf. Make it so players within range have damage reduction, or maybe regenerate armor faster, something like that.
Well maybe this instead: Being on your own gun strikes and executions will still restore 1 armor, but sticking with another brother would allow both to restore all of your armor at once, or regenerate a portion of your health along with the armor
I just don’t get why PvE content needs nerfs. PvE should be fun, allowing players to live out the fantasy of being a space marine. If they want to make it harder, they could just spawn more elite mobs or minibosses, or maybe add a timer to certain events as a challenge. But making the game less enjoyable for everyone is just stupid.
Yeah, nerfs in PVE co op are always head scratchers. When SC2 first launched the CO OP mode with LOTV Blizzard did the same thing, they nefed a few of the better commanders and it sucks because later on they released new commanders that were actually wildly, wildly more OP than any case you could have made for the first nerfed ones. But did they ever go back and revert those? No. I wish they would just buff the stuff that didn't feel cool in PvE............
@@daggumnametaken This. I'm usually pro casual, but if you want power fantasy it's there, just don't expect to be rewarded handsomely every mission when it's not as deserved.
Nope. It should stay at 5. It should be hard, it should be punishing if you die. If your team kills 10 major is in 100 seconds you respawn faster than in ruthless.
Exactly, I was actually leveling this peashotter called Occulus bolter which I still had in green rarity because I started leveling Vanguard the day before, entered the game to check changes on my own trying to be not too much prejudiced and well... It become imposible to play a non-Meta build at all. If you check the builds of all those sweating clowns claiming that the update is amazing, every single one of them are going with granadier tactic, AoE Bulwark (to get max life on call, banner + execution/medkit) and heavy with AoE like heavy plasma or multi-melta, and they still die, like a lot, if they woudn't abuse bulwark heal they woudn't be able to compleate a single map. The increased in wave size in pure tiranid maps with the 2-3 extremis spawns is just fucking stupid, specially with zoantropes appearing in groups... taking into account the changes to ammo, this doesn't make much sense unless as allways you use a meta build with infinite ammo.
Hey dudes, they're gonna get around to that in a future patch. They know of the distaste towards bolter damage so we just gotta give them time for future updates.
@@CommanderLongJohn Lol I get where you're coming from. I'm big power fist main and after I watched a breakdown of the mechanics and how the charges combos tie in (it's a little more than you think, not a lot though) it got even better. The mobility of cannon punch and charged attacks feel damn good. You have to get to relic for MOST weapons to make them feel closer to how you want them to feel.
@@Bamfony0 buff first them, debuff later. or do both together, It doesn't make sense for them to do this to make the game bad, and only improve it a long time later
I really wish they would stop changing the parry windows. People have spent hours mastering the melee in this game and with one update it feels like my brain is splitting in half trying to remember if my weapon is balanced or fencing. Some core mechanics should be viewed as sacred and not just switched around cause the devs felt like fucking around for an update
Yeah man you try to commit it to muscle memory and focus. I was having all kinds of hell last night. I specifically stayed off the bulwark cause I didn't want to deal with it lmao.
DEVS, STOP LISTENING TO SWEAT LORD STREAMERS. They do not represent the majority of the player base. Ruthless was fine, it’s meant for a level 15 not 25, fix it. Lethal would be acceptable without the nerfs and Coherence bullsht. Instead of allowing us to use the skills and tools that you taught us to use, you tied our hands behind our back and put us in the ring with a pissed off Tyson Fury.
I tried soloing the new op with a bulwark, and it paired me with two ranged npcs. It hurts being one or the other right now because of that coherence bs. I wanna lol sniper, but I'm going to have to wait now till they either rework or get rid of coherence. Like, make it give buffs if your close by or something or conditional. It basically chains us together limits our freedom of movement.
Went from feeling like a god in average and had to pay some serious attention in ruthless to getting steam rolled on average. Never failed an average mission until last night
I agree with you. Even on a bad day, I never failed an Op on the 2nd level difficulty. But tonight I got absolutely steamrolled by a Ravager, 6 Warriors and an uncountable number of Gaunts. Just literally could not fend off the sheer number of attacks that were coming in.
Well for me pre patch average is pretty nice, and substantial is somewhere in the middle Post patch average is throwing 5 elites, and frequently 1-2 minibosses (zerothroupe and similar) wayyy to frequently, and substantial it is near garrenteed 8 elites on average. Not to mention that primarily ranged classes have basically no way/very inefficient methods to get armor/HP….by shooting enimes
@@howardxu8050 after playing all weekend I did make it through a few ruthless runs with no downs on my part but the amount of extremeis were nuts and rarely got 2 armory data’s but got 2 almost every time playing substantial. Would love if every class got red health back after an execution while already at full shields if at a certain distance to teammates
They nerfed the dodge roll. I don't know if they mentioned it somewhere but they definitely did. Was playing tactical the day the patch came out and suddenly it feels like I'm fat rolling.
Omg same tactical rolling was insane fast and covered an insane amount of ground and use to be faster then sprinting now it’s literally pointless unless your dodging an attack. I was rolling and it looked weird then I saw someone outrunning me and I knew they nerfed it lol
The soulsgame tryhards are actually doing more damage control then Saber Interactive are lol, don't let ANYONE gaslight you this patch is 100% getting insane backlash right now on multiple platforms which was to be expected when you start nerfing things, Saber are playing a dangerous game and really testing their playerbase's patience right now. The game is barely 2 months old and they're already doing nerfs, if they're smart they will either do some buffs in the next patch if not rollback a lot of the nerfs they just released.
@@Gsxr1k666They broke the spawns too. I did some Average difficulty Inferno last night. 15+ Extremis. Every wave had 2 Extremis. The last wave at the end had 3 Extremis at the same time (Ravenor/2 Zoanthropes the first run, and Lictor/2 Zoanthropes on the second). I am not amused.
Get rid of coherence bs! They tried to copy Darktide, but failed miserably. This mechanic PUNISHES sniper, vanguard, and assault class. What the hell were they thinking?
@@lazarious5424 Sniper is my go to. Vanguard is my 2nd favorite. As soon as you grapple, you’re out of coherency. And with the 20% armor reduction! Those classes are even squishier. I’m all for a harder difficulty, if it’s done correctly.
Also, when you have to play so closely with one another, it’s easier to die together: especially when you have 2 Zoenthropes spamming that beam blast and 2 Lictors on your ass. lol
I’m surprised they didn’t do anything with bolt guns. Currently, the only real choice is the bolt gun with grenade launcher. Bolters need a slight damage buff across the board.
Gaunts need less health flat out across all difficulties ontop of it, they're chaff enemies and take too many shots and like 1 too many melee attacks. Like, idk why all these dumb uck devs make CHAFF ENEMIES so ungodly tanky, or in Darktide the ranged chaff enemies if no one is dealing with them are unironically deadlier than gunners because there's more of them and they shoot about as fast and take better cover positions than the gunners 9/10 times.
Not really, heavy main here. I use heavy bolter, heavy bolter rifle, tactical bolter, smg bolter they feel ok even on ruthless. Lethal, I use heavy bolter. They feel good.
@@warangelthelight2077 Feel ok is placebo. Look at the dps of these guns. Half of what any semiauto gun does and not even half of Las fusil dps. Thats why they are so weak. heavy and auto bolt rifles take 6sec of only headshot to put majoris into an execute stance and that is just sad. Heavy bolter is a tab better, but still worse than the other options.
@@hopeasusisusi9189 gotcha, haven't really use that much besides bolter weapons and they serve me well in ruthless but that's also because I didn't like melta in here. More use to melta from battlesector
Not to mention they are literally the most vulnerable class. MAINLY with those fuckers with tyranid guns(the one that shoots green projectiles. Not the...literal shit projectiles)@ryojimata3708
The main thing I am super baffled with many of the nerf is what is their train of thought ? Like really why did they nerf ammo cache of all thing, while everyone agrees that melee in this game is weak as hell ? Was having full ammo break the game, or was firing bullets OP, or was dealing damage to enemy game-breaking, or even was having fun forbidden ?
I really dont understand why devs have such a hard on for over tweaking the games they make. "If its not broke dont fix it", should be on the blackboard of any live service game meeting room, in big letters! And the "devs vs gamers" mentality we often see these days as well, is incredibly toxic, and does not promote the actual fun in any game.
They over tweak because of the internet. The mere fact that you can’t please everyone but everyone is swarming the internet with there opinions makes the devs think they can chase the idea of a perfect game which we all know does not exist. If we stopped complaining then they probably would not tweak as much.
Well it does seem strange. With Helldivers is was clearly stated it was heated debate in the studio about what to do and it could be they nerf stuff as way to make things harder so you take longer in the game when it lacking content
I was thinking about this and back to my D&D days when I used to DM. I liken it to "a dungeon master who's afraid of just letting the players win and have fun."
Because the intention from the beginning was to make the game challenging and engaging, but not TOO challenging. They have to strike a middle ground and that requires experimentation and a nuanced approach. People are overreacting to a single balance change like it’s the end of the world lmao. Look at games like Overwatch, where there’s major buffs and nerfs twice every season for 8 years and 90% of them are terrible. I feel like people have the expectation that the “power fantasy” aspect is supposed to make them into unkillable primarchs even on the hardest difficulty. If you want to play a fun, un-engaging, easy, power fantasy where you can turn off your brain, I recommend Warframe.
So many guns and most the melee need buffs, no classes needed nerfs, ruthless didn't need any changes, and everyone enjoying the changes are part of the top 10% of players and they need to shush and not ruin the game for everyone.
The hardcore community is usually the most vocal, but have a hard time seeing the bigger picture outside of a hardcore context. Not alot of self awareness either. They shouldn't be completely ignored though, they are the most experienced players and know a thing or two, but that applies to smaller things like parrying windows and such. I think because the hardcore community is so much more vocal, the devs think it's the majority opinion. The problem is the casual/majority playerbase (for this game especially) is pretty quiet, so the sweats aren't getting contested as much as they do in other games.
@@Machosause the 10% should have been put into a private lobby and created a LASO playlist like Halo, that vocal 10% would become 0.10%. ruthless with no perks and base weapons is way harder than lethal with them. Lethal is just volume of junk thrown at you and you’re forced into a meta of tac, bul and hvy.
I will never understand a Dev and their desire to nerf PLAYER VS ENVIRONMENT sections of a game. If your player base is telling you it’s too easy (which with the amount of time I get to play I have no character at 25.. 3 at 20 but still..)the answer is to not nerf builds people have worked on. Wrecking how people play is never, ever the answer. People put time into building a character exactly how they play or to the style they play and the devs are just like “you crying about the game being too easy? Well now your build sucks.. take that!” That’s not the way to do things Dev Teams. Pay attention.
I feel like if they want players to stay together they need to offer bonuses, faster regeneration of armor or slightly higher damage or something of that nature if you are close together. Rather than punishing you for not being close together. More flies with honey sort of situation.
It's the Melta charge bomb/grenade damage against bosses that was nerfed not Melta guns. It was still a stupid nerf when the problem was not with the Melta charge itself killing bosses so fast, it was multiple charges combined with Auspex scan. Even with the 30% nerf Auspex scan against bosses is still the best/op skill in the game.
Heavy main here. Auspex is still a great skill. Watched a tactical wipe out a hellbrute in lethal solo in about 10 seconds using grenade launcher and auspex combo.
Absolutely baffled by this patch. I bought this game to play a Space Marine power fantasy, not a tactical survivor shooter. It was already ridiculous enough before the patch to be somersaulting all over the place and scavenging the pickups like starving loot goblins. Why don't Space Marines have a slow passive heal? Why don't they start with Medicae Stims if you're not going to give them a passive heal? Why are some of the classes just objectively better by far since day one? Why does the Vanguard class even exist when you could have had a Psyker? (Vanguard in my opinion does what the Assault SHOULD do). Why does the standard bolt pistol do more damage than melee weapons? Why is the power armor made of wet toilet paper? Why do the block melee weapons exist? All loot/pickups should be temporary buffs like the armor pickups. Scavenging for ammo is just lame, why the poverty simulator for what should be a power fantasy? Give a slow health regen in addition to stims. Make ammo pickups give you a mag of special rounds that do more damage. Make frags recharge on their own when you run out of the special types you pick up. Give the class perks better synergy with different playstyles. Even before the patch there was very clear meta builds and so many trash perks. Now with the new difficulty there is even less options for viable playstyles, loadouts, and even whole classes. Instead of fixing any of these problems, this patch just doubled down on the lame but previously tolerable parts of the game.
@@ch1mera302 Dude Space Marine 1 was not an easy game. Honestly it was way harder than the SM2. Most of the time you had to rely on melee cause ammo was so sparse, and you rarely had full armor segments for more than a few minutes between combat sections.
Audio and texture bugs on the new map, cannot unlock the lethal difficulty emblem rewards, can no longer mute players in pvp, still can’t delete colours and armour sets you made. They can’t even get the most simple effortless shxt right. Every patch that releases they fix one thing then break two more things. Honestly I think they themselves are gonna put the game into the dirt.
The easiest difficulty for Inferno operation was simple to run before the patch. Now it takes so long to run through, a lot more enemies and even multiple extremis enemies where there used to be 1 or none in that run. They added a new difficulty level for those needing another challenge and should have just done that. I'm a casual gamer and liked the idea I could run PvE on my own, but now it's almost impossible.
Was so excited for this update. Haven't played in a week or so. Got even more excited it shadow dropped yesterday while I was at work. Before I could even get home to play, found out the update, aside from the new operation, pretty much blows. 😢
@@Bamfony0the shield perk on lethal difficult is by far the worst part of the update it makes the game unfun cause now with random players is Hard to win the operations cause everyone plays alone or they get far from you and everyone now dies in seconds cause of that
I personally was fine with every change for the Lethal difficulty, until I saw and played with the Cohesion and armour nerfs we get on Ruthless and Lethal being 10% and 20% respectively. Ranged enemies were nerfed because they were a bitch to reach and you had to take a few hits to get to them. And as is now you're armour bar is shredded by the time you get there and even worse you are punished by not even being able to get it back with a execution or gunstrike unless you're less than an arms length away from someone in your squad. In Darktide, if you went into Cohesion range, you got buffs and were rewarded by sticking pretty close together. But, if you needed to step away from the group or scatter, you were not actively punished for doing so by being crippled.
Absolutely love the new operation but was really surprised by the balance changes completely missed the mark. We really need changes to the bolter weapons and the thunder hammer. Would love to see better more complex perk trees for both the weapons and the classes.
There were players said ruthless was too easy but I kept saying devs, DON’T LISTEN TO THEM because they are top 10% best players and would find ways to enjoying the game anyways like beating missions without getting hp damage, playing with low tear weapons or characters etc. We have long game history they lost majority of players by making the game too difficult. I think they should try to make the game as challenging as maximum number of players would feel comfortable.
... And why do you think difficulty options exist then It is because there are the 10% who only want to play on the easiest difficulty and the 10% who want to play on the absolute hardest If you cant stand it yourself go back to average or substantial If you cant handle ruthless IT IS SIMPLY NOT MEANT FOR YOU
@@karatsukiawildfemboy2326 so what happens when a game is ever changing, what if ruthless difficulty was for you but then an update changed core things or aspects of the difficulty making it harder, is it now suddenly just not meant for you, how is that fair?
True but the last update was nothing but buffs. Especially the minoris armour regen on parry making the game considerably easier. The coherency update is the main problem IMO as it really messes with how a lot of the classes play
@samhill7817 but pretty much no one except the hardcore sweats were complaining about the last patch. I was fine with where everything was at the last go around, and so was all of my friends I play with. I think this patch should have just been adding lethal, and all the other changes, like limited ammo and such, should be limited to just lethal. Leave the other difficulties as they are for the majority of us normal players, lethal can be the tryhards paradise
@@ImpendingApotheosis I’m in agreement with you. I like the changes to ammo/ extremis spawning… just not the coherency effect as it really hurts some team combinations.
Respawn time on Lethal is horrendous, even with the majoris kill mechanics which is very situational to begin with. The difficulty is difficult as it is, this 5 minutes respawn time was really unwarranted.
This change to the ammo crates is BAD. My main has been Heavy since the beginning and we just burn through ammo. I was gonna say the heavy bolter burns through ammo, but the heavy plasma incinerator does too. I don't want to be required to equip the ammo version of Relic Tier. Also as a Heavy I like to support from like 10-15 yards from the rear lobbing charged plasma like a Covenant Wraith. This team cohesion is dog water.
I disagree when you say Helldivers recovered. It bounced back a little bit but the vast majority did not return to what it could have been and will not return to those numbers. They burnt a lot of bridges that cannot be rebuilt (including mine). Darktide did the same with how long it took to revamp their crafting and weapon system. It's too late. People moved away from those games and SM2 seems to be following in their shoes.
This. If devs frustrate their playerbase by nerfing everything into the ground etc, then don't react QUICKLY to badly received updates, people simply just get bored of waiting for the game to become fun again (contrary to what sweat-lords with no job will say; a game needs to be fun FIRST to stay successful) and they leave. Once they leave, they're unlikely to come back, too, because they'll find another game to fixate on.
They simply could've left it the way it was, buffed bolters and grenades, kept the multiple extremis aspects, increased the horde sizes, added new enemy types, let players actually manually operate the laser towers to kill the bio titan in the new op, and gave us new dark angel cosmetics for EACH class...Then this update wouldve been fine imo.
I uninstalled today at 330 hours played according to steam... better be fast or people like me will just move on just as fast as it took them to fudge everything. Two weeks and they didnt do anything to fix the real issues.. just slacked off on "Balance" patchs to fix what isnt even broken. 45 mins to an hour as it was was dumb to clear an op. Now with waves upon waves upon waves its taking longer. Mobs that should be glass cannons are bullet sponges. Removing survivability of the player class' for no reason. Bolters hitting like pellet guns. No true new cosmetics. A single op that was suppose to also add a NEW difficulty not make every difficulty harder for 0 reason. Random crashes. Bugs like stun locking on the player. Mobs spawning and calling for help behind walls. Falling through maps. Game Crashes for no good reason being the worst of the worst.
@@6Vlad6Tepes6 he isnt wrong though, would you spend more hours into the game when instead fixing the issues they are doing nerfs or balancing when there is no need for it and issues just gets ignored, i rather have the devs work on the issues sooner than putting more contents will add more problems.
@@6Vlad6Tepes6 When the over saturated game market right now seems to think "Balancing patches" instead of content will keep players. Yeah.. I'll go play elsewhere until all the dumb ass' leave the game baren like usual. Same happened with darktide. All the people crying left the game and it got good. Instead of "Balance" they should be focused on fixing the multitude of bugs. Crashes being the main issue but also mobs behind walls calling waves in. Falling through maps. Half the weapons in game feeling like pea shooters. Stun locking to death. So on. Balance the spongey health bars on mobs and add more. Not balance the fun out of every build people come up with and call it too easy.
@@TheMaskOfBlack I definitely get that but stop playing it means you stop supporting it as well which ain't the answer the answer is to talk to the devs to help the games to grow not fail!
There’s no way you have 330 hours played because it doesn’t take 45-60 min an operation. If your missions are taking that long there’s a problem. I only play with randoms. Even exploring the whole map it’s 30 min tops
The bulwark change is that the rez banner no longer grants full contested health, you now need to actually take the perk that gives max contested health.
@@GhostSecuritySolutionswhen I was building my bulwark, I always had to pick which banner I wanted. The contested health has always been my go too, and never had that glitch 😅
For Bulwark they nerfed your ability to heal fully. Before the patch (depending on perks) when the bulwarks dropped their flag it would give you a full bar of contested health. Then you could either get an execution or use a stim to fully heal. That is now gone.
bulwark main 200h here, this still works. you just need the lv23 perk as intended. before, the healing was activating with a different lower level perk when it wasnt supposed to. the only change ive noticed (which is mentioned in the patch notes, but clearly not applied correctly) is block cancel not working in pvp if youre on the loyalist team, but working in pve or if youre playing as traitors in pvp. really hoping this gets reverted because block cancel made melee much less monotonous.
The armor one is really bad cause unless you read the notes, they make NO mention of it at all as part of the difficulty changes in the selection. It'd screw with players BAD cause you'd never think it was the game being harder and something was wrong with your game. I think review bombing isn't a good thing but it seems to have become a urgent way to alert devs that big changes are badly received, like with Helldivers 2. Thing was bad staff also caused problems there so player input was being ignored so the players took a bigger action with the review bombing and things (enventually) got better, so the reviews reverted and praise was given the devs listened for once. Nerfs in PVE games are NEVER welcome unless it's a game breaking problem, the players are ALWAYS at a disadvantage with infinite enemies, limited healing, etc. Why weaken our weapons and classes to make the issue worse?
All the 40k books I've read they never run out ammo all the time , and they surely not so freaking slow and clunky. The meele feels so weak and now the nerfed! Wow what the fk are they thinking all the weapons are week to begin with.
they're only doing anything due to the backlash in reviews. in 1 day over 1600 negative reviews. went from very positive recent score to mostly positive. funny shit saber did the same damn thing with their other game wwz. Also, you shouldn't say "review bombed" if its valid player criticism. Review bombing is intentional just to hurt the sales.
I'm an average gamer but after levelling my Heavy is was finishing the operations on ruthless. After the patch I finished the first operation 1 time and failed 10 times. And a lot of those times in the first area. The Heavy is support but now I've got to be in the middle of the fight with no good melee. So now it's nearly impossible for me to level up all the Heavy's weapons. Before I buy a game I read and watch reviews. And when a game seems to hard, like hollow knight, I don't buy it. I bought this one. I had fun but now I have to stop.And I admit that it's also a skill issue. I also red on a steam review that only 15 % of the palyer finished an operation on ruthless before the patch. But I didn't check that number for myself. But if this is true then they shoud've left the game as it was and just had to add the higher difficulty with the conditions as they are now. So everybody can have fun. Man...I really hoped this would've lasted much longer. I really really like this game and it's lore.
This really was a stupid patch. They shouldn't have adjusted any of the enemy health/player armor in any difficulty OTHER than lethal. Release lethal difficulty with the changes to armor, health, etc etc and gage it from there. The parry change to melee weapons is just weird, doesn't make since. Staying near squad to regain armor kind of makes playing Sniper/Vanguard feel awkward since these 2 classes seem to always be the furthest away because of how they are designed. The ammo change doesn't really feel noticeable in the older ops, but you definitely notice it in the new ops because a couple sections you can get non stop waves due to the mechanics you have to satisfy. The new ops is sick though. A little long, but super dope
When a game is solid and has such stellar gameplay, nerfs start it down the path of ruin. I went from enjoying Ruthless with a little luck and focusing on skill and after one substantial I greatly noticed it taking 2-5 successful parries to have a majoris ready to be executed and if increasing enemy count works, why lower the armor?? It was tolerable and you could work with it, but 20% less armor on ruthless? Less armor on substantial? The game went from challenging but fun and conquerable to boring and not worth playing. I’m excited for the fix, ruthless and lower difficulty should have added more enemies but left the rest alone. I love the game but it’s simply currently not worth playing.
the new OP and difficulty are great, the proxy tether ruins what would have been truly amazing. Lethal would already be more than difficult enough. without the team tether it would atleast be doable. so far it seems impossible unless you have a good team in coms together.
Honestly, people review bombing a game everyone was in love with a week ago because of a patch that made some minor balancing changes is beyond silly. With the right team combo and Auspex, you can still melt bosses in seconds and the melta charge can still be used to blow up a bunch of Warriors/Rubrics easy peasy. The thing with the coherency in lethal is a different thing, that really sucks and doesn't feel well thought through. But still, it's a NEW mode that we got for FREE and there were bound to be a few kinks to iron out. Thus far, the devs seem to have been open for feedback, so no reason to go completely ballistic.
Here is the easiest fix for cohesion, difficulty and balance. Just add a 4th squad member. Not only more firepower but splits cohesion into two groups. If you do want a ‘Power Fantasy’ then stay abit closer. It’s not Primarch Simulator last time I checked lore and codex Space Marines are still mortal. Fighting against one of if not the greatest threat to living beings in the galaxy. There is a mode for the pretend heroes it’s called minimal. Been in the game since launch. Or get another 40K hobby don’t spoil it for people who enjoy the game because it’s difficult not because it’s another carbon copy flagwaver title filled with real world agenda and hand holding tactics.
They should have learned from other games and from feedback. Nerfs aren't fun, if they want to add more modifiers to Lethal or any other future difficulties that's cool, but when people are already having a good time and they sweep in and change a bunch of things people have gotten used to you're going to have this kind of backlash.
If your playing with bots in lethal you’ll 100% run out of ammo I agree it’s not a issue playing with people but its a pointless change affecting solo players
Maybe they should just directly copy Darktide and make the system so you can get armor from regular executions apart from your team, but if you're close enough your armor slowly recharges over time. I feel like they should consider having unlimited ammo too, imagine how many more enemies they could throw at us if they didn't have to worry about ammo economy. Same goes for weapons, the more they buff them, the more we can kill, and the more they can throw at us.
noo the vangaurd and the assault playstyles will be absoutely gutted if they keep in the finisher nerf (executions not giving armour) it should be regen, i also had that idea, but it should only be regen, and i thought that if your not in range you have a longer cooldown for your armour to naturally regenerate do you get me? i think it would make it so people would have to group up during emergency waves but when they are clearing they can be spaced out
Getting one shotted or to 1% hp with all armor and full health sucks really bad, worse with the bad hit boxes on certain enemies that leaves you stunlocked
Talk about dropping the ball with this update. My friends have moved on and or back to similar games. They and I are sick of the stupidity of the Developers.
I think the nerfs are way more worse than in helldivers, because Space marines Are demi gods and helldivers Are just one clone from billions. Its a worse felling when u Must run away from a Horde of minions…
There is currently a big mix of feedback. 1) Yes cohesion is a thing in table top but it applies to units. The units are generally built with same class pieces. The operation lobbies are not traditional units since everyone must pick a different class so cohesion does not make too much sense. Thankfully it is only present in Lethal diff. 2) Nerfs are fine but there is a thing called "balance patch" where you balance things, not only nerf or buff stuff. You need to do both. 3) Not everyone needs to be able to play on Lethal, that's why there are not a lot of cosmetics locked behind the difficulty. Also if you cannot do Lethal yet, stick to Ruthless, it has the same armory tokens but obviously rewards less exp. Lethal is meant for people that enjoy pushing themselves to the limit, people coming from Souls games for eg. 4) It was quite annoying to see a trailer that advertises the season 2 content but does not mention that it will be split in 2 phases. Yes, i've got the information that it's gonna be split from content creators but it should not be like that, you need to be transparent about you statements as not everyone watches content creators or joins your discord.
There's only 1 helmet, and just emblems that for some reason are locked even when you complete them lol. Me and my buddy stayed up and beat 3 Lethal missions and the emblems were locked.
There is only one cosmetic locked behind Lethal difficulty, and it's a damaged Tacticus pattern helmet. And you have to complete ALL Operations on Lethal to unlock on it.
My point was there are not a lot of cosmetics and they are not flashy either so people would not feel "obligated" to go for them. Lethal being made just for the sake of challenge. Hence why it is fine if you dont want or cannot do Lethal, you don't miss much.
There's a handful of reasons why Coherency works in darktide, yet doesn't in SM2. Cohereny in Darktide is your squad aura perk, as well as passive toughness regeneration, and any other talents that function off Coherency (Eg, Veteran restoring toughness to allies in Coherency based on a % of what they restore). You're not completely locked out of toughness regeneration whilst outside of Coherency, it's just drastically reduced compared to being in your squad, and you take away your team aura from everyone else. Hell, Zealot even gets an aura perk that gives them consistent 2 Coherency bonus at all times even when alone. It's ultimately a mechanic that rewards squad play, without punishing more lone wolf/stealth flanking play. What's even more, most classes have a means to enhance the Coherency radius even further, and when combined with maps being more choke heavy outside of the big objective finale zones, and pinning units being more devastating when caught out alone, you naturally gravitate to sticking within range of at least 1 ally that can free you from a dog pin or trapper net. SM2 handles Coherency extremely badly on the other hand, because it doesn't reward playing as a squad at all, you get the bare minimum mechanics for staying close to allies (which for Assault and Vanguard means even using their ability takes them outside and into harms way, which on top of the armor change on higher difficulties, 2 armor and no way to restore it is a very bad time), and outright punishes you for not using it by taking away the core defensive mechanic of the game. You want to reward a squad sticking close like that? Look at what Darktide does and adapt it; maybe have some squad perks tied to it, adjust the armor recovery window to speed up whilst in range of, maybe even have it be something like reduced ranaged damage taken with max coherency to allow full melee squads to push in as a unit without having to backpeddle and try pick of shooters before commiting to melee. SM2 is a good game, and it really stings to see the same mistakes that killed my enjoyment for HD2 happen again, especially as playing it (and the Unlocked and Loaded update) brought me back to Darktide as well, and Darktide understood that players want to be the strongest they possibly can, so it's not about limiting what players can do and punishing them for playing an unintended way, it's about rewarding them for playing how you designed the game and mechanics, creating situations that a single player can't reliably handle by themself and naturally wanting to cover the weaknesses of squad members so they can resolve it instead.
Everyone was spoiled with the previous update making it all easier. Running thru Ops was a joke and maxing out everything was extremely easy to accomplish. Now they make it harder and people cant handle it. Ruthless and Lethal Ops should definitely be tough as nails since you're able to get the best weapons in the game. Lethal Ops should definitely have a huge skill gap so you can actually prep and communicate with your Brothers. Showing off those emblems or pieces of armor will make it that much more sweeter the harder they are to obtain.
Ruthless was literally fine where it was at before this patch. Does it ever occur to you people that perhaps people got better at the game which made it easier. Because if it was "super easy" we would see a large number of people on Steam for example have the Ruthless achievement. As of last night the number was 16.7 of players having it. After playing Lethal tonight and beating 3 missions of it in one go with my buddy and a random everytime its easier than Ruthless. Plus that helmet and emblem are not very satisfying rewards.
@@DrPepper_V1 Difficulties are there for a reason. You can't expect everyone to be able to finish all of them. I'm also pretty sure those that cannot finish a Ruthless or Lethal Ops haven't finished the Campaign on Angel of Death. I agree that the unique rewards aren't as satisfying but in general they should be hard to obtain and the hardest difficulty in any Co-Op/Multiplayer game should encourage you to actually communicate and work with your teammates.
@DoNtWaNaHeArIt Do you even play the game because what you just said right there is so retarded it made me retarded. I didn't beat the game on Angel of Death and beat Ruthless and Lethal lmfao. Bro stop talking because you clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about. Also they're very easy to obtain.
@@DrPepper_V1 i played on average difficultly yesterday and carried my team with a level 1 bulwark when they were level 6-9. They died by being bad at the game. The truth is most people just suck at gaming. Why should devs reward players that are dumb and dont play easier modes catered for them?
I've been loving this game put alot of hours in but bad nerfs and lack of new stuff will slowly kill the game tbh I can only play the same missions for so long and play the same pvp maps for so long before I get board
This is like Helldivers all over again where people complain that the game is too hard or their weapons got slightly nerfed, and its all of a sudden unplayable
What do you have against bolters developers fix the bolter weapons I busted my ass off getting the heavy bolter to relic tier here for my heavy because it looks cool and I want to tear into a swarm of xenos with it
I was surprised to not see a single mention of the broken bulwark perk that makes you explode on perfect parries and damage yourself instead of enemies on certain specific majoris attacks. I haven’t tested to see if it was stealth fixed though, has anyone else seen if this was fixed?
Difficulty should be a a challenge on resource management, like ammo and stems. The harder the difficulty, the harder it is to maintain your resources. Increases enemy HP and Damage, decreasing player armor and damage, is not the way. The codex astartes does not support this action! Edit: I should have added that to increase the strain on resources, simply increase spawn rate, not necessarily how many enemies are spawned at once, just how frequently they pop up.
I think its fair to play devil's advocate and ask, did Helldivers 2 really recover after nerfing the game into oblivion? Sure, they fixed the game in terms of balance but they lost the momentum they had and it killed the popularity and havent recovered from that. SM2 is treading thin ice; Momentum is everything.
Just don’t get the need to make shit harder for all difficulties when they just added lethal. Legit if people want a challenge they will do Lethal. The other difficulties should have been left alone to allow players to GET BETTER, then they can work on beating ruthless overtime….
1) The frequent server disconnects is the ultimate enemy. I come back from work. Play an hour to blast a few xenos, gets disconnected twice. Goes to bed frustrated. 2) The Bulwark is out of my play because of the way it parries. All other classes parries the same but pre-empting an attack for a class that specialises in defense is puzzling.
It's fair to say, with this patch, that the devs don't really know what they're doing. Combat and skill progression already felt poor. They didn't fix any of the big problems and created new ones.
god i hope they do NOT touch the heavy bolter theyre gonna ruin it the same way they ruined the melta when they "fixed" it. so dumb. i trust no one especially after helldivers was so significantly ruined by nerfs just leave the weapons alone stop ruining them with your "patches" and "balancing" just STOP
Its simple. They fucked up my fun on sm2, i deleted it. Leave negative review, not coming back untill everything fixed up like a miracle. Its very ironic that helldivers 2's latest patches are exact opposite of this patch. Nerf enemies, Buff players. We enjoy this kind of game for satisfatction of being one man army, not a meatbag.
Tight formation should work just the opposite way and it should be implemented on every difficulty if they do. Do you want your players to teamplay? Buff them if they do! Give em complex things if they play as you intended, more range damage for the Bulkwark wich is what he lacks, Maybe make sniper to have a blue temporary armour and so on, do not penalise players!! Or if they play the intended way which implies for assault or snipers to break formation (literally the opposite xD) so +armour if you're far away, Bulkwark+range damage if surrounded, Assault early armour regen if he hits+10 enemies with his hability etc... Or just get rid off that b**sh** Jesus Christ i hate when devs forget to play its own game...
Why are we getting nerfs for PVE in the first place? This isn't competitive PVP where balance is critical, this is supposed to be more causal focused PVE. We need buffs not nerfs. Instead of nerfing meltas, why not buff the bolters? Meltas were perfect after the contested health glitch was fixed, they should have left them alone.
Maybe they can make the perk where you have to stay together a buff instead of a nerf? Like more contested health refill or get a a little more armor back from finishing an enemy?
For the LOVE of God, a working IN GAME SAVE friends function is essential especially if they want US to operate together!!!! I am starting from Zero in HD2 changing to PC ( was able to sync SM2 via Pros ), ONE single play session and 3 people added me as a friend cross platform and I'm barely able to play suicide mission on my new characters lvl .....
A better change may be if the squad is close there is a buff. But not a debuff. Rewards people for playing the way the devs want them to play but not punished for wanting to do their own thing. Cause it makes sense bulwark taking the melee enemies as they come in and the sniper taking care of ranged while the 3 member can help either one. But not every situation will be like this. When stuff gets craxy it's easy to get spread out. People panic rolling. Trying to get away from damage etc.
They adjusted armor and ammo which wasn’t needed unless they were going to give us more ammo. They also added more enemies which is fine but they can’t do this and the armor and ammo at the same time
After this new update my bulwark broke so bad that when I place my banner I turn into neo and the whole game freezes but I can still move and hit. And if you do a gun strike after a power swing there’s a chance nothing will happen but the animation still plays.
Even with everyone doing what they should, they're being punished. Sniper and Heavy should be back behind the fight with Assault and Vanguard being the push. I feel like this was a way for the devs to influence speed runners or players that separate from the group to skip fights. If that's the case use a teleport warning. There already auto teleport so the system's there. Desertion is not tolerated. If not a new system, it needs to be far wider. Or as long as you're within visual contact. Idk there's so many things they could do differently, but this was a massive mistep.
They removed the grey health from bulwark's flag so you can't cheese it before you get the perk around lvl 25 or so. The flag was bugged and would restore your hp after you unlocked an early game perk which wasn't how it was supposed to work.
It's sad when I feel like I NEED hacks in order to either enjoy a class, or just to be able to go through a difficulty to level a class and gear with any kind of decent speed... Ever since WeMod stopped working, EAC has been slogging my PC, I had to turn down graphics due to it (and I had the graphics on max), and me and my buddy only play the game with us and one bot. The game is great, and I don’t want to see it die, especially not this early
Played the new op on average difficulty solo to get a feel for it. It was definitely a cool operation/map. Once in the bunker got wave spammed a couple times and it was dicey but manageable as a Vanguard. Definitely would have gotten wrecked on Ruthless or Lethal. Overall i enjoyed the new operation. Hopefully the devs will make adjustments to all the nerfs and buff the bolters. Give them time brothers its still an amazing game!
Helldivers 2 was an amazing game, and it took 8 months of crappy nerfs for them to finally turn things around, far far too late. Peoples patience has been burned through already, and when games waste their time with needless updates like this one, they don't have the time to sit around for another month hoping it'll get fixed. New games are coming out and peoples attentions will be drawn to them over a game that makes you wait around for *maybe* the buffs that are needed to actually improve the gameplay.
Bro….you look so different than I thought. Probably one of the best things about life is a moment like this. I have no comment on the game updates as I’ve barely played them yet. Anyway, blessings to you and yours!
I love the update. The difficulty was tough and that’s what made it fun. Running through ops w/o a challenge can get boring after awhile. The squad coherence makes sense for lethal difficulty. It’s A SQUAD based game, you are space marines, not lone wolves. The distance is not that bad for tight formation. If you’re a sniper, stay close 5-10 m from the nearest range while focusing majoris and get those parries when they are too close. Yeah the sniper, assault and vanguard needs to be tweaked a bit for maybe more dmg or more resistance. But if you’re not team shooting the ranged and having someone clear the melee ads, then that’s your team’s fault. Learn to work together. The ammo cache limitation makes sense too, you’re supposed to keep moving and not have a crutch the whole game, ITS A HARDER DIFFICULTY FOR A REASON. It’s never meant to be easy. The melta bomb should be back to normal or just at a 20% debuff. I’m a casual player, I don’t get to play everyday but it’s refreshing to have a harder difficulty, something not so easy. Having a 100% success rate on every op means there is no challenge and that’s gets boring
They nerfed the bulwark's banner. It used to give max contested health to the placer. Now you have to get the upgrade that gives it to everyone if you want it
The cool thing about the melta bomb was the dmg. Sucks they took it away. Not a big fan of nerfs that take away things or force you to play a certain way. Game going on a back burner for a while until they have it all polished out. Its a shame because I really enjoyed playing it so far.
Bulwark's change was the "Invigorating Icon" perk was like always on specifically to the bulwark before the patch. Basically its fixed to only activate when its selected on the perk tree. Beyond that, terminus enemies imo were going down too easy even on ruthless when melta bombs and kraks were used. Im not particularly sweaty but I kinda see this game as a mix between Doom 2016 and Bloodborne which encourages aggressive enemy management
