@@billfrosby8081 Superstition isn't a valid reason to not let someone look at your dice and in most cases, would get your more suspicion and inevitable tests...
@@billfrosby8081 counterpoint: superstitions are themselves a form of cheating, as a superstitious player is openly admitting that they believe their dice rolls are not adequately random and are, in fact, unfairly influenced in some way by elements from outside of the game.
@@billfrosby8081 I mean, it kinda makes sense. If you think your favorite dice is a lucky dice, it means you have an unfair advantage against your opponent who doesn't have a lucky dice. Hence you win the game because of that specific dice, and not because of your strategic decisions and a fair bit of randomness, as it should be.
@@57thorns it's actually a really good gaming space and shop. If you do eventually go, it's the first cubicle in the gents, a little "tricky" to find as the door into the toilets opens in front of it.
He needed an identical, normal die, so he could palm the dodgy one and hand over the normal one. Having a second loaded die, to prove that the die isn't loaded, is even more insane than flushing them down a toilet. I too, am frustrated by how bad he was at cheating; pure Dunning-Kruger effect.
It's like cheating on a test in school. You can't get a perfect score. You have to purposefully get some wrong. Throws off suspicion. This guy got greedy.
Yea could have got 6s twice in a row then use the 1 then just use your regular dice and your at an advantage and palm the 6 for when you need it same principle if your playing a game of dice
@@jackstewart2258This. Sacrifice going first for a few games to drop suspicion, maybe even use a regular dice a few times, and use the weighted one sparingly.
It's not just that he cheated, he was bad at cheating. It's not just that he was bad at cheating, he was bad at hiding it. It's not just that he was bad at hiding that he cheated, he was bad at lying about it. And maybe the dumbest of all, his out was flushing leadend dice down the toilet. The cheater had to be delusional or something like that to go into a tournament cheating, and be so unprepared when called out.
I think the kind of person dumb enough to care enough about winning plastic toy soldier games to cheat is also the kind of person dumb enough to do it poorly.
@@kahlzun the problem is you’re thinking about this from the perspective of someone who doesn’t breathe with their mouth open, or drag their knuckles when they walk
Oh man I was at this event and got a front row seat when the Guy got caught. I really didn't expect the meme to go this far... But my god am I happy about this turn of events!
The fact he's already using a mega cheese Eldar army AND he felt the need to bring loaded dice? Like I could partially understand if you were using fucking Admech or something but you're already using the top tier army as is...
A guy did something similar at a big poker tournament. He had made fake poker chips and had snuck them into his stack during the tournament so he had a lot more than he should have. At one point the tournament organizers realized that there were more chips in play than there should have been and paused the tournament to investigate. While the tournament was paused he freaked out and ran to his room, he then tried to flush all these clay chips down the toilet but they instead clogged it and maintenance had to come and they found all the chips in his toilet and he was disqualified and had some other penalties against him.
That seems like the single dumbest way to try to cheat at poker because like someone would obviously notice that. The 40k analogy for this would be trying to cheat by hiding minis in your sleeve.
@@hedgehog3180 The only Games Workshop game where that's accepted and encouraged is Blood Bowl, wanna put 12 minis down on the pitch instead of 11? Hell yeah do it and hope you don't get caught.
When I was younger, and actually played 40K, my primary opponent always used to beat me. Never won one game against him. It wasn't until much later that he admitted he always used to cheat because I wasn't as clear on the rules as he was. Yeah, he was an Eldar player too, so that scans.
I had the exact same thing when I was younger and went to my local games workshop. I struggled to understand the rules and now I realised most people just sorta cheated with me because of that. One of the main reasons why I stopped it as a hobby (that and the ridiculous pricing in Aus + the Matt Ward shit)
@@pinkfloppyass no reason to stop the hobby. But it happens with every competitive board games. Especially on 'hobby' level in local game stores. The part of collecting cards with cool art, or painting minis and playing with friends? Best feeling. Playing with strangers, that prefer to win by slightly cheating, over spending cool time with someone else? Nah. The fun part with board games of any kind is most important element. Losing is sometimes inevitable part of that fun. If someone cant accept that and enjoy that part as well, he doesnt like the board game and the fun it provides. He just likes winning and nothing else.
@@kptmaci4979 They still hurt the enjoyment for others. Most games that fall out of interest do so due to cheating. It's a death sentence, so no, he very much should have quit, and those who don't like that need to crucify cheaters to stop it. The acceptance of cheating is more problematic that the cheating itself.
Why would you cheat at _Warhammer_ of all things. Half the fun of the game is the sheer comedy of watching a unit of grots demolish a unit of terminators because the dice turned on the Space Marine player super hard.
My buddy once tanked 7 lascannons in 8th edition. He needed 7 6s to avoid the damage, bastard rolls 7 6s! We were both screaming in disbelief, and yes I tested his dice after that. They were not weighted.
IKR? I sometimes break down and turn on God mode in some single player games, and I very quickly exhaust all the fun of that game. Its fun, briefly, to explore all the options; but I don't understand the appeal of playing if you know you can't lose.
they didn't want to stick their hand in the bowl and either retrieve or make sure their dice went around the u-bend, which when you're about to be busted for cheating seems a wierd place to suddenly get cold feet
Trying to dispose of them was dumb in the first place, but why wouldn't they just yeet them out a window or into a bin or something? Why didn't he have unweighted dice of the same colour he could just swap out?
There's a good chance that he did but just didn't think anyone would look considering that he thought people would believe his obvious bullshit before.
dice are fun, and people should just not cheat to begin with. But honestly, at big events having casino dice at the gaming space could be a way to stop people from trying.
@@lliamdavis6950Who said this was a big event? I’ve been to competitions (not for Warhammer, but other games) that were essentially just community gatherings. Very low budget, communal gathering space, volunteer officials, etc. Maybe this competition literally couldn’t afford to buy dice for everyone. Especially since I saw another commenter say each player needs over 20 dice to play Warhammer.
@@NavyDood21i play D&D for fun. And honestly, i have to actively AVOID buying to many dice because they're so cheap. You could get like 500 dice wholesale for like 15-30$.
Regardless of having found the flushed die or not, as soon as you whimper out of getting your dice tested by tournament officials, you should be, whether you used weighted dice or not, marked as a cheater. And with that mark, the ONLY way to enter ANY official tournament ever again, would either A: Only play with dice handed to you by the tournament officials or B: have EVERY SINGLE dice that you bring along, tested BEFORE playing.
I agreed with the first part but once marked as a cheater, no second chances; don't ever let them back in any tournament you control. If asked why tell them "there is no forgiveness in the far future".
When I played whenever my opponent suspected me of using weighted dice I'd carefully scoop them all up and offer for them to use for their rolls. Most folks declined. No cheater would had their loaded cannons over to be used against them.
@@KingOfOnes Agreed. However, there can be potential legal issues for tournament organizations sharing information on cheaters or "alleged" cheaters. Therein lies the problem. When at ground zero, you've got the cheater dead to rights. But if you have a list of cheaters and you bar someone from entering your tournament based on that list, and then the supposed cheater actually proves he/she should NOT have been on the list... well, things can get messy. But I totally agree that THAT tournament is forever off-limits to the cheater. Ban for life. It's the only way they might learn not to cheat. Burned hand teaches best.
@@magnustheman524 That is the best way to handle accusations. Stops 'em dead in their tracks and potentially earns you a friend 'cause they're often so embarrassed and grateful that you gave them an "out" while simultaneously standing up for your own honor.
@@matteblack5805 Naw, they just don't give a shit. Tournaments on tabletop represent the part of the game GW does not give a single bit about anymore, and would honestly like to get rid of.
@@matteblack5805 We had someone cheat with loaded dice at a club tournament, like the grandprize was free membership for the next year. Think it was worth $20
Damn, the stupidity, i bet he thought he was so clever to flush the dice in the toilet - and truth is he could just pocket them and just lie that he doesnt know where they went - just shows you how detached from reality such people are.....
I find it wild they let him just walk away with the evidence. If the cheater had a set of normal dice he could of easily hidden the loaded dice and just handed them normal dice after the bathroom break.
I'm not super familiar with Warhammer tabletop, but if you are going to cheat, and you're going to bring a decoy dice to throw off suspicion, why would you not just make your decoy dice a regular, non weighted dice?
@@underarmbowlingincidentof1981 Yeah, morale now you have to roll higher than your leadership. I can't think of any situation... Well, if your stuff blows up in your area, that could warrant using a low die on the damage roll... but that's about it, where you'd want to roll a 1 now.
@@Smashy_RB that doesnt make sense though. The dice doesnt get tested once, or even twice. It proves nothing in the end. If you get 10 in a row, thats weird enough to raise valid suspicion - then let another person test it the same. The whole test would take a minute with 2 people. And that is what regular dice would have really small chances to provide. Weighted dice, either 1 or 6 would still provide fixed results, which regular dice dont provide and when you look for weighted dice you look for fixed results. Having 'regular' dice as a decoy would be a necessity for every barely thinking cheater.
@@kptmaci4979 Your thinking too high effort this guy just bought a 19$ set of metal weighted dice and ran those to win the saves he needed to. Yeah there are a millions way to do this better but come on this guys is already scraping the bottom of the barrel is it really so hard to believe he just aint that clever.
Imagine thinking you would never be caught when you're "somehow" winning the starting roll every single game. You'd have to be delusional to think no one at a tournament would call you out.
You'd think it would also come with a regular non-loaded die in the set (also I'm really surprised he was somehow allowed to bring his dice with him to the bathroom)
Rolling 1s might be useful depending at some point on what you're playing. Also, he could claim conspiracy if he had to hand over dice to the people he suspected of cheating - a little lockbox of some sort might have been useful here, with the store manager keeping the key and the accused keeping the box
Random Salt and rinse baths should be used at Tourneys and detailed in event pack that compulsory dice testing (CDT) will be used, a bit like CDT in Military, but less pee and drugs, more salt and dice 😂
Man, I've been in tourneys where (just against me), necron players were just making up rules on the fly, imperial guard were fielding twice the allowed points, marine players would lie about what was in their drop pods. It got to be exhausting and got me to stop even bothering with organised tourneys.
There is a incredibly easy solution that we sometimes practice if something seems iffy: We just use one of the players' dice the whole game, roll from one big pile of dice. That way - if the dice are loaded, both players get insane results.
@@pnutz_2 the risk of it is how it might spin on the table. You can see weighted dice roll weirdly as is, putting it on a corner might make spin on the weighted corner like an axis.
I once played a Battletech match at my local store where one player had loaded dice. The thing is, the organisers knew he had loaded dice, they'd given them to him. They'd given him the loaded dice because in the multi faction, multi battle scenario the store had laid out, he was playing Comstar. It was hilarious.
Yeah, pre-patch Eldar are possibly the strongest faction launch ever in 40k if you brought a sweaty competitive list, and still "only" a top 3 army if you brought a fluffy i-like-the-models list
Certain people don't handle losing very well so they'd do anything to get the win but they still want to be acknowledged for winning. It's unfortunate but I know a guy like that hence I don't like playing him very much because of his salt when he feels like he's losing during the game
@@buggart I mean that's a thing you actually see people doing, there's even cheat software that has built in features to make it look less like you're cheating.
@@hedgehog3180 "but silent aim has been patched" - every single fucking tf2 player/their friend on the same team 1 microsecond after being called out as suspicious
(serious) adult softball leagues hand people a two year suspension for refusing to have their bat examined to avoid the problem of "Oh I'll just withdraw" or whatever. Of course if the bat is examined and found to be altered it's a five year suspension on first offense so like. Maybe still refuse to have your bat examined haha
Hmmm interesting. So the penalty for not allowing the check SHOULD be worse than being guilty. Which makes sense cause owning up to it should be at least slightly encouraged
@@maninatree1 yeah it's like pleading not guilty vs pleading no contest/guilty. If you plead not guilty and are found guilty you typically get a higher sentence.
They say in the stream that these things rarely ever have prize money, at most it would be a £20 gift card at a Games Workshop. The dice probably cost more than any gain
The top prize was a copy of the new Leviathan box set and 50£ (about $65). As for the legality, I'm not familiar with UK law but in the US it'd be grounds for civil action, while criminal charges would likely only come into play if they had actually won a prize and the prize was substantially high (as in thousands of dollars). A couple of fishermen in Ohio got jail time recently for being caught cheating in fishing tournaments by stuffing weights into their fish (since success is determined by the overall weight of your catch) because they'd won hundreds of thousands of dollars in previous tournaments doing the same thing.
@@BaronVonHoovy "in the US it'd be grounds for civil action" that line makes no sense whatsoever. You can take legal action against anybody for any reason, whether you win or not is another matter.
@@thomgizzizNo you cannot. To sue in civil court there needs to be some kind of damages. If something did not cause at least arguable harm to your person then you have no standing to sue. Additionally you need to be a party to the act, you cannot sue as an unrelated third party because you don’t have standing. Physical and emotional damages can be brought to civil court, but only if they are substantial enough to have incurred a monetary cost somewhere down the line, such as medical costs or therapy or lost income due to inability to work. Cheating at a game that did not have a prize would not qualify, since nobody is going to need therapy for that, and it would be thrown out by the judge far wasting their time.
I’ve never understood why people always buy the weighted dice with 6’s Sure throw a few into the mix, but buy the majority of dice 4’s and you’ll still see a better outcome and buy a few that are 2’s Like obviously cheaters can’t do probabilities because the majority of the game having 4+ is going to win
I love having special dice for all my armies. But i never understood why a tournament (especially the big ones) wouldnt just press for a deposit on sets of dice that players can get back if they bring back the dice. But then you'll exclude a fairly easy way of cheating in tournaments through dice.
First turn syndrome isn't a problem in a lot of tabletop games with alternating activations or that don't start with armies in significant engagement range from the first turn It's a problem with the IGOuGO system
@@outrageoussharpie4107 40k has never experimented with anything else in the main tabletop game after initiative was removed so its a moot point. Even when you look at other games with alternating activations there is a meta turn system. End of round pulls are probably the only solution to give a real chance for both sides to utilize strategy without a lot of luck deciding whether your units are best utilized in first or second turn. GW is so focused on reducing time investment for player’s in the game, they can’t solve the problem, they will not make end of round pulls, and they are not going to write more complex rules for initiative to return. Their experimentation with alternating activations in Apocalypse will probably stay there. It’s a fundamental flaw that requires a full rewrite they won’t commit on until they actually need to when and if they ever start losing money over it.
It's weird to think it, but I went 3w, 1d, 1l at a recent event. I went 2nd in four out of five games. I won the game in which I went first... It was the only game in which I was tabled. *shrug*
i never knew what was used to make dice weighted bc i've never wanted any before but if your gonna cheat you have to understand how your means of cheating works like this guy must've been the dumb guy trying to cheat on tests in high school by writing it on his hand or something like cheating isn't something you do and decide my method is thoughtless so i'll be fine lmao
I tried everything in high school; I wrote notes on my hand, my pencil case, my ruler... ... In the end, I found the ultimate way to cheat, was to hide the answers in my head. Nobody ever found out.
My brother measured his arm from elbow to middle finger, so if he ever needed to guess ranges, or see if was in range for bow fire he would act like he was lining up a shot. The mother licker used that cheat against me for YEARS until he let me know...
Why is this cheating? You could measure with a tape anyways. Sounds like he was being a little sneaky but the worst that happens is the game takes a little longer because he's thinking harder.
@@truthteller880In Warhammer fantasy you couldn't pre-measure so you had to eyeball ranges from unit to unit making it harder to move into bow range. His brother was pre-measuring with his forearm
I spent $1000 buying plastic sprues so that I could spend 100 hours building and painting them… then I spent $20 on weighted dice so I could never play the game again!
The funny thing is that all any player in a similar situation has to do is say “No”. It isn’t like the tournament organizers have a warrant for players’ dice, lol. If a player doesn’t want to give the tournament organizers their dice, a player doesn’t have to give the tournament organizers their dice. Either way (keep and not give / successfully-flush and not give) it would almost-certainly result in the exact same ruling from the tournament organizers. Only difference is that one of the two options could result in a meme. 😂
I don't understand why you would need a second weighted dice for ones, just sub in a normal die! If your subbed die only rolls ones it's still weighted! And while we're on the subject of sucking at cheating, why would you cheat when you're playing 10th edition Eldar with these freaking points values??? You're just jeopardizing your legal cheat granted by the cokehead who came up with their points costs, and their lazy brother who "tested" the Strands of Fate mechanic in his mind one time! God, it's like the people who feel the need to cheat are always the ones who are so incapable they'll never win otherw- oh actually. That checks out.
I always cheat at games, but I do it in such a way to appear to be random chance. I'm even so good at cheating this way, I've even appeared to lose my last three MTG games. I had a tourney so convinced i wasn't cheating, they gave the award to someone else. Oh yeah 😎
Tabletop gamers are, in varying degrees, superstitious. Most either wont touch dice that aren't theirs or won't let other people touch their dice. Source - Me: Tabletop Gamer
Some tournaments are rather big (hundreds of people) so buying enough dice for the dozen(s) of games constantly going would be rather expensive. Although i do agree with you, it's just a cost thing.
people like to buy fancy and pretty dice to show off, altered-dice cheating is really rare (Because unlike most forms of cheating in warhammer, its absolutely possible to prove), and TOs don't want to be buying and distributing thousands and thousands of dice that are high quality enough to be worth it. (Bulk cheap dice tend to be pretty unfair)
remember guys..we play a game wirth little plastic soldiers that have chainsaws on a stick as a weapon..so think about how degenerate you must be to cheat at something this silly XD
if you are going to use the silly argument, then cheating in all things where money is not at stake is silly. Pro sports are no less or more silly than wh40k
@@dinoblacklane1640 Yeah that sucks but I would still expect a tournament to make a genuine attempt to provide. Maybe they run out of dice some years, it happens.
Lol I remember playing a friends kid who we all knew was loose (to be fair he was new and like 11) with the dice reading. I didn’t realize how much the kid was cheating until I had an army of 100+ models in a 1000 pt match. 300 lasgun shots later, his warlord took enough lasgun shots to statistically have 30 wounds, he had 9. My solution that I offered was he could admit 1 of 2 things: he is cheating or he is magical. He tried to admit the magic part until I told him I believed him and would encourage his magic, and persuaded his father to withdraw the son’s personal savings to spend on scratch offs. After all if he is magical he won’t be broke by the end of it. The sheer look of terror as he realized his Christmas Xbox was about to go bye bye was priceless. His haphazard confession afterwards was just the cherry on top.
I don't support cheating, at anything. But if the sink in the bathroom didn't have a grate on the hole that the water goes through. He could've just dropped it down that. Can't really see it in there unless you took the piping out and checked it manually. But still, don't cheat
I've never seen a public restroom that didn't have a stopper of some kind at the sink. Even the most abhorrent garbage restroom I've ever seen never had a sink that didn't have a plug, which is actually a problem since there's bunch of stuff that doesn't go down...
That’s so funny, tho I don’t get why they don’t just take his dice and roll it a bunch of times Surely it’s gonna roll a suspiciously high amount of 6s, or if he does the switcheroo then 1s, but that’s still sus
The problem is probability. Rolling straight 6's a given number of times is unlikely, but not impossible. A random number generator can spit out the same number ten times in a row and still be perfectly random. To get any meaningful data you'd need to roll those dice hundreds, thousands of times. Much easier to just test the physical composition of the dice.
Don’t you need, like, over 20 dice to play Warhammer? Depending on the level of seriousness of the competition, they might have literally not had enough money to buy that many dice for every player.
@@antonjonsson424What is “cheap” or not is entirely subjective. A 200 dollar fine is “cheap” to a millionaire, but for someone else it might mean they skip dinner for a week.
@@antonjonsson424 I feel like the only people saying this are the ones who have either never actually been in a tournament, or have 0 freaking idea on any sort of logistics on that. Probably both
@@NavyDood21 How about include it in the cost to sign up? Get the cheapest dice in packs of maybe 30-40 and the player gets to keep them after the tournament. Seems not too hard. And a tournament that can afford terrain for multiple tables lika maybe a GT could handle getting dice that wouldnt end up being an additional cost for the organizer in the end. Pick up the dice at the registry when you arrive and go play. Its silly to have to think bout these things when people should just not cheat...
