These two with their back and forth is brilliant. Makes a nice change from Simon Jordan not letting Spence talk and just belittling him the whole time. Also Froch's gag at the start about the Wembley fight, brilliant 😂 Clearly knows people laugh at him for talking about that
Hope he keeps ripping Froch. Part of Froch doesn't like it and you'd think he'd be able to have a joke, despite the fact he has progressed in that aspect, minimally.
@seanmcauliffe6735 I think they're brilliant together. Don't really get it on RU-vid. Spence and Simon Jordan is a bit one way conversation wise, these two are knowledgeable, have good chemistry and have first hand experience to back up their opinions. Quickly become my favourite boxing content, tv or RU-vid. Whether you agree with him or not Froch's don't give a f*** attitude is refreshing. I used to find it hard to warm to him as a fighter and a pundit (even though I enjoyed watching him do both), I think I misread him a lot. He's funny, and at ease with himself enough to take the piss out of himself. Love having him on talksport. Need more like him, and least he has the history to back it all up too
@@seanmcauliffe6735disagree, froch can take it and he's a brilliant presenter..Besides why should he have to take anything Show some respect lowly dog!
@@jamesieco-de2000 yeah mate I agree, Froch is very welcomed as a pundit. I just enjoy him getting bantered as it annoys him and his ego a bit. That's all.
No one ever mentions Jimmy Wilde when talking about the greatest British boxers. Which is a real shame, 131 wins 3 losses and 1 draw, 98 wins by ko. Not a record that should be overlooked, one hell of a fighter
It’s an outstanding record but with zero footage it just gets forgotten. The sport has changed a lot from pre war and post war, and it changed a lot from the 80s to now. It’s unfair to rate fighters from different eras because there’s a load of factors to consider
Definitely overrated. That isn't saying that he was anything other than outstanding but he gets put on the biggest of pedestals that he doesn't quite deserve.
Very good heavyweight but came unstuck against the best who weren't afraid of him. At no time in his career would he have beaten Lewis without a lucky punch. He also never beat any guy who beat him.
Firstly, what a great show and amazing chemistry between the two of them. Froch has recognised the ego comments over the years and is playing the pantomime villain well with a glint in the eye and Spencer is just wonderful. I was lucky enough to meet Spencer at York Hall and he a top lad. For me, Tyson is a true great and should be recognised as one. It was a sad story of too much too soon and peaking early. He was that good (85-88) he blew everyone away in front of him. The sheer fear and aura he brought to the ring (maybe not with the legendary Ribalta!) had beaten everyone before they had even started and a Lewis or Holyfield then, (IMHO) would have gone the same way. The poor preparation, complacency and outside influences led to the Douglas defeat as he was in the mindset of just rocking up and winning. Now Douglas was much better than the journeyman figure he was portrayed as at the time and he himself also succumbed to the 'I've made it now complacency' before Holyfield dismantled him, coming in many.....many pounds heavier for that fight. We can all talk about if, buts and coconuts and for the non-Tyson fans, they can rightfully point to those defeats against the next era of greats and question his status amongst the true legends. I can assure you he really was a once in a lifetime fighter and a true great who was corrupted and ultimately beat himself.
Well said. If you lived through that era, there is no doubt in your mind about his greatness. Tyson was something unique. No body can compare - one of the best heavyweights of all time.
These guys are absolutely perfect for eachother! Froch is lovely, despite being full of himelf (I'm a huge fan, BTW)- he's ironic with it/knows he's a bit bigheaded. Frigging hysterical together and one of the few boxing chats I'd like to sit and watch for a good hour or so.
Q: SHOULD BIVOL AND BERTIBEV DROP THE WBC AND FIGHT TO SHOW THE FIGHTS ARE BIGGER THAN THE BELTS? everyone would know the winner is undisputed and wbc will hate to lose there %
@starwarsroo2448 oh sorry you meant numbers. Yes Jordan is a outrage culture salesman like piers Morgan. But I think even the casuals are starting to understand how limited his actual boxing knowledge is
I don't think we ever saw Tyson at his peak. He was coming into his prime then he went off the rails...had he remained with Rooney and stayed dedicated I think his peak years would of been around 24 - 27 but he was locked up at that time.
You know what diminishes his legacy? Making excuses for every loss or misstep in his career, dude had a handful of losses, mostly later on, but his fanbase is constantly making excuses about " prime Tyson" and he didn't train in the 90's or he was partying when Doulas battered him.
@@starwarsroo2448I agree with both sides, the excuses are a bit much but when you think about it Lewis, Holyfield, Ali etc completely dedicated their lives to their craft to be as a good as they were, Tyson was on a mad one half the time and cleaned out the division🤣
@@aryan.4855no the spinks fight was the best Tyson ever was going to get. Tyson got rocked by Bruno in the second round so no spinks was his best performance
Spinks was coming up from light-heavy (175lbs) and wasn’t even a big light-heavy either.. I read that Mike weighed 190lbs at 12 years old.. so mike as a literal child weighed more than a fully grown Spinks.. that’s like fury beating Andre ward.. Mike gets way too much credit for beating Spinks
How Good Was/Is Mike Tyson? By Frank Scoblete 30 January 2000 Now that Mike Tyson's career is almost over, it might be of interest to take a cold hard look at just how good he was at his best to get some idea of where he stands in the rankings of the great heavyweight champions. It is not a stretch to say that much of the fearsome Tyson persona of a decade or more ago was media hype and was little related to what he actually accomplished in the ring or against whom he accomplished it. We can make a case that Tyson fought "never-wases" and "nothing-lefters" in his early career culminating with his knockout over an intimidated former light-heavyweight champion Michael Spinks, whose only real claim to fame was "winning" two controversial decisions against an aging and distracted Larry Holmes. Other than the light-hitting, terrified Spinks and the out-of-shape, intimidated, comebacking, former great Larry Holmes, who did Tyson actually fight in his pre-prison days who was truly any good in absolute terms? If we measure competition based on who Ali faced, then who of all Tyson's pre-prison opponents was as good as Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Ernie Shavers, Joe Bugner, Mac Foster, Floyd Patterson, Zora Foley, Cleveland Williams, Jimmy Ellis, Bob Foster or Ernie Terrell, not to mention the awesome likes of all-time greats Sonny Liston, George Foreman or Smokin' Joe Frazier? Would you classify Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Trevor Berbick or Frank Bruno with any those other fighters? Only if you never saw them fight! The only real fight the pre-prison Tyson ever had was against the only decent heavyweight fighter he fought, a determined, well-conditioned Buster Douglas -- and Tyson was roundly beaten, battered and knocked out! That was Tyson in his prime, against a fighter who went on to "extinguish" himself by being knocked out in three rounds by Evander Holyfield. If the pre-prison Tyson's boxing worth must be looked at with some skepticism, then the post-prison Tyson must be looked upon with scorn. Often in boxing, the true greatness of a fighter is not actually known when he is in his prime as he defeats opponent after opponent rather convincingly. It is only after he ages, slows down, and gets himself into wars are we aware of just how good the fighter is -- and was! Certainly that was true of Ali. Before he made his comeback from an almost four-year forced layoff, there were all sorts of questions about his ability. Could he take a punch? Had he been beating up washed-up fighters? Did he have courage? Would he dog it if he were ever in a real fight? The layoff slowed Ali down, made him more vulnerable. What's more, great fighters appeared in that time, fighters better than any he had previously fought! So a somewhat diminished Ali met each and every challenger -- starting with a comeback fight against highly ranked Jerry Quarry and then a second fight against vicious number-one contender Oscar Bonavena. His first career loss to Joe Frazier in his third comeback fight proved he could take a punch and that he had mountains of courage. That fight was the first of several "wars" Ali would fight in this second part of his career. His next loss was to Ken Norton. Fighting 11 rounds with a broken jaw, Ali merely proved again that he was as courageous as any fighter who ever lived. His great victories against these very same fighters and his upset win over the god-like Foreman, showed what a great fighter he was -- and how much greater he had been before his layoff! Not so with Tyson. His "layoff" was heralded with a return to the ring against a rank amateur, Peter McNeeley, whom Tyson "destroyed" with a wild flurry in round one. This same McNeeley was later knocked out by the bloated Butterbean in one round and has since lost just about every real fight he's had! And what of Buster Mathis, Jr., Bruce "I was knocked out by a gust of air" Seldon, Francois Botha, or Julian Francis? Are they credible opponents? Only if elephants can fly. The only real fight the post-prison Tyson had of any significance was against Evander Holyfield, who was selected because he appeared to be a shot fighter, having lost two out of three to the disappointing Riddick Bowe. Had Tyson known that Holyfield was not a shot fighter, but actually the only great heavyweight of the 1990s, I'm sure he would have selected a different fighter to beat, perhaps a third go-round with the overrated Razor Ruddock who proved himself a worthy Tyson contender by being knocked out in one round by the otherwise cautious Lennox Lewis. So here we have a very simple yardstick for measuring the greatness of Mike Tyson. He fought two hard fights, one pre-prison and one post-prison -- both of which he lost (subsequently, he ate his way to a third loss and fouled himself into a no-decision). The rest of his victories, pre-prison and post-prison, were over fighters who couldn't make the "C" list during Ali's tenure. So where does that put him on the list of all-time greats? It doesn't. He doesn't belong. He's not even in the top 20! If you think of the very few good heavyweight fighters who have plied their trade in the late 1980s and 1990s, it is a short list: Evander Holyfield, George Foreman (oh, yes, the Big George who fought Holyfield would have rocked Iron Mike just as he did Smokin' Joe), Riddick Bowe, and maybe Lennox Lewis and Michael Moorer. Tyson only fought one of them, and lost. The others he avoided. I do not, as some writers do, lament the fact that Mike Tyson never lived up to his potential. In fact, I believe he did live up to it, fully, completely. His potential just wasn't all that great and that's what he became -- not all that great.
Lennox is the greatest boxer I’ve ever seen at heavyweight. As much as the likes of Ali, Foreman and Mike Tyson are glorified, the best version of Lennox would have dealt with the best versions of all 3 of those guys.
@markkofi8522 cos boxer's don't "prime" aged 22 and tyson got knocked out and battered aged 23. He beat bums or has beens in his early career he didn't "peak" he simply hadn't fought anyone until Douglas beat him up. He looked even more devastating against a much improved Bruno in 94 smashed him in 3 rds. In 86 in your fantasy "prime" a novice Bruno rocked him and went 7 rds. His "prime" ended when he faced elite boxer's...weird that eh?
To the question from Mark Shiteon - "Was a peak Mike Tyson overrated or was he fortunate to operate during a weak period in the heavyweight division?" Easy to ask that question now the guy has long since retired. Would love to have seen anyone suggest that to his face when he was still basically a kid at 20 years old, let alone coming into prime age.
Lennox was a brilliant heavyweight but he could be caught when he had lapses of concentration. 86-87 Mike Tyson lands hooks on 92-95 lennox. I think it would be a similar fight to Ali ,Frazer 1
@markkofi8522 the same tyson Douglas beat up? Look lads boxer's don't peak aged 22. You're talking absolute nonsense. When tyson stopped fighting bums he stopped winning. Oh and ffs cus did very little of tye actual training! He had coaches do that. Teddy atlas trained mike tyson from 13 years old and has spoken about how they knew Mike couldn't cope even in sparring against opponents who wouldn't let him walk through them. They hand picked his opponents pre Douglas
@billdoor3140 Mike said in his own pod cast he was a coke addict by 89, he didn't train properly and possibly never hit his absolute peak. Had he maintained his 86-87 fitness and kept his discipline, Tyson would have destroyed Douglas, it never happened and Mike Tyson spent the next decade unravelling becoming a pale imitation of what we witnessed when he smashed burbick, Smith, Thomas. Tucker gave him a fight but struggled keep Mike at distance, tubbs got demolished, Eastern assassin was old so he didn't count, Spinks got spanked, Bruno got battered. We will never know what could have been, but it's entertaining to imagine.
I love the fact that Carl jokes about, but the moment there's a serious point or question, he's right on it. No hesitation in naming Lewis and Calzaghe as the greatest British boxers of all time there,
Lennox Lewis is THE ONLY HW to be compared to Mohamed Ali…… for movement, skill, punching power and fitness …… and not forgetting that jab …. LL was a class act !
What ??? Are you blind ??? Mike Tyson aged 20-24 was the most ferocious and fastest heavyweight of all time and Ali knew that when Tyson faced Holmes and whispered in his ear 👂🥊🥊🥊iron mike can DEFINITELY be compared to Ali
The Tyson thing makes me laugh. He is in his prime knocking out poor fighters like Berbick, Pinklon Thomas or light heavies like Spinks or aging fighters like Larry Holmes. Yet when you mention that he lost to any decent fighters he fought Lewis, Holyfield etc then that doesn't count cos its not his prime😂😂
@@djbarbergreen3388 Totally agree with Sugar Ray Robinson, pound for pound the greatest boxer of all time, As for Marciano ?? Way to small against LL …. Even Mohamed Ali as HW was under 16St …. LL was near 18st and be truthful LL would have beaten Ali … LL is far to polite to say such a thing but for me LL was a great Champion… many fighters ducked LL even to the point he called out RB for years calling him chicken Bowe …. And STILL he would not fight him ….
Notable fighters Tyson fought: Holyfield (lost TKO, DQ) Lewis (lost KO) Golota (won TKO Spinks (won KO Bruno (won 2 TKOs) Berwick (won KO) Razor Ruddock (won TKO, UD) List of fighters Tyson did not fight: Riddick Bowe David Tua Ray Mercer Michael Grant Vitali Klitchko Vladimir Klitchko Shannon Briggs George Foreman *Did not ask a revenge match against Busta Douglas
No shame in losing to Ward at his best, a dirty asf fighter but his technical abilities were top notch. Ask Ward about robbing Kovalev lol 😉 (I'm only half joking)
@@jamellabruna6092 He's a windup merchant mate, can't take it too seriously, as he clearly doesn't take himself seriously lol. He's got a dry sense of humour, some just don't get.
Mike is the most overrated heavyweight in history. He won his titles from some of the weakest heavyweight champions ever (berbick, James smith and Tony tucker) two of whom he couldn’t even knockout or even down. He’s the youngest heavyweight to lose the titles when he was destroyed by James Douglas age just 23.. he never beat any great heavyweights and was smoked twice by a passed prime Holyfield who was 5 years his senior.. destroyed by an old Lennox Lewis also..
Hope he keeps ripping Froch. Part of Froch doesn't like it and you'd think he'd be able to have a joke, despite the fact he has progressed in that aspect, minimally. The content was solid though. Froch talking about Rob putting the towel around his face and having different body language is the type of stuff I want to hear. It's a proper insiders look.
I always rated Mike Tyson, but it was disappointing that Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis did not meet when they were in their prime. My mate always thought I was mad to bet on Lewis, but I believe he was the better of the two. Great fighters, both of them.
@kerryman9589 Yes, but tyson started his professional boxing career before Lewis. He was the youngest heavyweight. But I think Lewis would have beat him even in his prime.
@@fundyden4771 I agree tyson was over rated don King paid all them bums to fall to boost his profile as soon as he faced real fighters he found it hard to put them away like holyfield lewis he ended up biting holyfield ear because he knew he couldn't beat him.tyson beat fighters that were finished
@kerryman9589 Well, I would not say he was over rated he was a great fighter. But you are right. Don King messed him up as he did all his fighters. Lewis is one of the best heavyweights of all time.
I think 'best British boxer' was a bit poor. Bob Fitzsimmons? Jimmy Wilde? More recently, Fury? Who did Calzaghe beat who wasn't past it? And Lewis got sparked out twice not concentrating
I remember seeing carl at soho london fresh and wild now called wholefoods 15-20 years ago, i am a martial arts trainer and a big guy and he looked apprehesive at me but the way we caught each others glaze u knew he had a fighting spirit but i was unaware who he was
I did 10 pounds off the other night with water tablets while I slept and I woke up feeling really ill. That was for a hospital appointment. I had a good reason. Any more than that, I think is near impossible as I got up in the morning and put on about 4 layers and 30 mins later had to take them off. Even before I got on the exercise bike I realised that was my lot How people get get 23 pounds off and put it back with an IV bag. That shocks me
Great episode from Spencer and Carl. Both correct Naseem Hamed trained terribly for Barrera fight. And had lost his hunger for the game. Should have gone up in weight. Should have achieved more. Had no desire to avenge Barrera loss.
Dear tyson fanboys 1. Boxer's don't peak/prime aged 22 2. Douglas beat him up aged 23 3. Tysons early opponents were never weres or has beens 4. Tyson looked more devastating against Bruno in 94 after his fantasy prime than their 1st bout in 87 during his imaginary prime. 5. You judge a boxer by his best opponents not his worst. His best opponent was lennox Lewis who left tyson literally crying in his corner
Mike Tyson was the most overrated heavyweight of all time! He fought Journey men and over the hill B class boxers. His best wins were against an old Holmes and a Light Heavyweight Spinks. Every single time a fought an A class heavyweight he got beat.
His fans will give him all the credit in the world for beating an old washed up Holmes.. yet will make 495 excuses for a prime 23 year old mike losing to Douglas
Mike Tyson and Gazza were similar ... They were one track and were ruthless at their sports when they were on it !!!!. Then there were times they just did not bother and also lost their heads !!! You can take the boy out of the hood but you can not tak the hood out of the boy !!!.
Tyson prime was great. Styles make fights. Everyone was examining Tysons style. If Tyson remained unknown and fought Lewis both in there primes, I think Tyson had a better chance. Tyson became too predictable because everyone was analyzing his style. Boxing is about predicting your opponents next move.
I love watching and listening to you two , just good common sense , and great banter between you both ! You both come across really well , and give us great insight !
When talking about a retired fighter why do people allways use the word “Prime” ?. I think its safe to assume when people talking about fantasy matchups or am ex boxer we’re talking about them at their best
Mike Tyson cleaned out the division and unified the title and he wouldn't have done that if he was an average or overrated boxer. The best always rises above the rest.
A prime Tyson (In a best of 10 fights) losses to a prime : (1) Ike ibeabuchi (2) Lennox Lewis (3) George Foreman (4) Sonny Liston (At 32 after 2 years in jail. Not the 44 year old who lost to Ali) (5) Muhammad Ali I doubt he wins one out of ten against Ike and Lennox. A prime Mike always struggled against strong fighters who could hold him and tire him out. A good example of this was his tough fight with James "Bone Crusher" Smith. That is why 4 out of the 5 boxers on the list above are all much stronger than Tyson and can easily hold him and tire him out. I am not sure how a prime Tyson would fair against a prime Vitali, Evander, Bowe.
After watching the Crawford vs Spence fight. It looked like Bud was the bigger, stronger man. Spence seemed to have poor punch resistance. Would a rematch at 154 make a difference in the outcome?
No. IMO Bud's reach and ability to cover up against those body shots means he'll beat Spence again. I just can't see how Jr ever beats Bud now. Terrence has too much ring IQ and toughness. It'll be like AJ vs Uysk 3. No matter what Anthony does, he'll never beat Oleksander.
There ain't a fighter out there today that can comment in a negative way on mike tyson 💯 There's just no comparison whatsoever.! The guy in his prime was worse then any nightmare any of these fighters will ever have in their entire lives 💯
Mike Tyson is the most overrated fighter in history by fanboys/casuals. 🙄 He came along in an incredibly weak era, beat no decent heavy in in their prime (a ring rusty and undertrained ancient Larry does not count), never came from behind to win a fight and was found out against true quality fighters like Holy amd Lennox (both older and more worn put than he eas when they kicked his arse,). Prime Sonny, FOTC Joe and George would have deposited him on fucking Pluto. After all Tillis nearly beat him before Buster did. I find his fans to be rather like a cult, delusional and with no concept of reality. Top 12-14 at best.
Agreed, he doesn't even have a jab and once it's parts like round 3 his output was actually awful and he just stands there with gloves still doing a little movement then a random hook 😂. And people says he's a goat 😂 no chance any elite fighter loses to him
