Was Frank Oz Really Fired by Disney? | Some Boi Online 

Seeing how Star Wars and Marvel turned out, I believe him.

Not a good attitude that Disney has.

Exactly. I'd say somebody have The Muppets Studio be its own separate company, out of Disney's hands. That way, Disney won't have creative control over the direction the franchise goes.

They do not need Steve Whitmire, though! He was fired for unacceptable business conduct and even the Henson family didn’t want him anymore!

@@philipkippel3615 Sadly that is true.

Disney doesn’t get the Muppets and the characters relationships. But it still comes down to the Henson family selling the company to Disney!

Yes

Disney should go bankrupt and disappear before they destroy even more childhood memories!!

@@borgman75 That's never gonna happen

Steve Whitmire and Frank Oz should return as voices, puppeteers, consultants, writers, producers... IDK; whatever their title is, they should be given full creative control. Up until they start leaving unambiguously racist tweets, or going full Kanye, or something that's _actually_ worth being fired for. "They would never--" Exactly! And since neither one of them is a douchecanoe, they should have jobs for life.

Agreed!

I loved seeing Yoda again too. Though the films were flawed, that was a great scene.

I feel like The Muppets is an untapped gold mine for Disney, but Disney just doesn't care and just cares about the brand name. That's why Star Wars is shit now, because all Disney sees is the name and not what the name means

@@Eternaldarkness3166 that's partially true, but I think a large part of it is that Disney has no idea how puppeteers or puppet companies work. It always irritates me to see articles that call Muppet performers "voice actors" because that is so dismissive and even degrading; there's a lot of hard physical work involved, and a lot of emotional labor. Fozzie grew out of Frank Oz's own insecurities as a performer, Scooter was basically Richard Hunt playing a younger version of himself. Of course Disney has zero idea of how to handle the Muppets; maybe one day we'll get lucky and Disney will sell or trade them to a studio who cares about them.

@@Eternaldarkness3166 star wars is fine

So true. Seeing Oz performing Yoda was the BEST thing about TLJ.

That being said, Disney needs to listen to the performers who LITERALLY CREATED THESE CHARACTERS!!! They know the characters better than anyone who could write for them. Their input is valuable. God it pisses me off

And besides, the Muppets Studio already has someone performing Miss Piggy, Fozzie and others (very effectively, in fact), so even if Frank came back, actual Muppet performing would be at least unlikely.

Don’t Lucasfilm mostly handle Star Wars On their own?

Not for long, though. Positive changes are coming to Disney, and I'm one of those people who plan to change Disney for the better. Once I get a job at Disney, we'll be treating our customers RIGHT!

Not for long, of course. Positive changes are going to happen at Disney, I'm sure of it.

Jim Henson once joked to Joan Ganz Cooney, the creator of Sesame Street, that he and Oz would be playing Ernie and Bert in their rocking chairs. But I don't think he was joking.

Dave Goelz is still doing Gonzo so it's pretty feasible for Oz to reprise a character or two of his. Obviously he wouldn't do Fozzie and Piggy cause Eric Jacobsen has them now and has had them for a while, but he could very easily come back to performing.

Then again, there might've come a time when they only recorded lines, like Caroll Spinney and Jerry Nelson.

Just like how Steve Whitmire was fired because he was difficult to work with.

@@philipkippel3615 At least it's not a crime to what Kevin Clash might have done and he didn't even get fired for it.

Completely true, some good points.

They are roles played by actors. They shouldn't be so cliquey.

That’s not true.

@@philipkippel3615 I believe it. Unless you have prove that is.

Because they haven't done enough already?

The biopic was turned into the new Jim Henson: Idea Man documentary, he was one of the interviewees for the film. If that counts

That's not too far fetched now that I think about it.

Jeffrey Katzenburg had no respect for the art of puppetry. Negotiating with him was a nightmare for Henson.

If Jim was alive, Disney wouldn't have the option of doing that and The Muppets would still be his property

@@Eternaldarkness3166 Actually, he planned on selling his company to Disney in 1989. In fact the only thing that was _not_ for sale was Sesame Street. (Though he'd also hold on to Kermit, and they would have to ask him for permission.)

It would

😂👌

You'd think so. An original Muppet performer who is also a seasoned director seems like an obvious choice to take the helm of a new Muppets project.

@@SomeBoiOnline Though it's understandable Disney is a huge company and don't know what to do with the Muppet for awhile though who know what the special will bring Friday, but i think rehiring frank would be best or Steve to help out and direct

Honestly, I'd keep Piggy, Fozzie, Animal and Sam Eagle with Eric and just have Frank as a creative consultant.

Just owning the brand

Like they did with Star Wars

There are rumors flying around that Bob Iger doesn't care much for the Muppets, but take it with a grain of salt.

He only directed one: The Muppets Take Manhattan.

It was around that time when he took a step back and thus had minimal involvement with the film, other than voice dubbing. It was framed as he'd moved on to do directing, but he was likely unhappy with the handling of the property after Jim's passing; after all, it would never be the same again.

Kathy Mullen I think chose to retire. She is like 80 now. Unfortunately Steve coming back probably won't happen because then Disney would have to admit they were wrong and they don't do that.

Brian is all buddy-buddy with Disney now, working with them on a couple projects. He even performed Sal again in "Muppets Haunted Mansion". So I'd say the chances of him performing more with the Muppets are pretty good. I'm horrified by the idea of him actually being on the writing/directing staff for them, seeing as he's the same guy responsible for "The Happytime Murders" and those lousy 2000s TV specials.

It's true that Oz is very (arguably over) protective of the property, but understandably so. So I get why Disney are reluctant to involve him, though if they were to meet in the middle somehow, I'm sure that would be most beneficial for the franchise.

@@SomeBoiOnline If they could find some middle ground that would be amazing.

I think the criticisms should be more specific. The soul isn't there doesn't mean anything and is vague. At face value, it's still the same. Songs, bad jokes mixed with good ones, celebrity guest stars, physical gags. I'm not sure what's missing. One of the criticism is the Muppets got too cutesy and sweet but you could argue they always had sweet moments like Rainbow Connection. Example of narrowing it down to specifics. Kermit is too much of a pushover. I wish Kermit would show backbone more often and make a few more wisecracks. I made that up but that is an example of a specific thing that can be fixed.

Yeah I totally get that too. It's one thing saying "it's not the same as it was", but actually pointing out what's wrong would be beneficial.

Also Jerry Nelson, Richard Hunt, and more.

Well, they did work on Muppet Guys Talking, so I wouldn't say there was bad blood between Frank and Dave.

Okay okay.

If you're referring to the part mentioned at 5:19, I did make a follow-up video a few weeks later, which can be seen here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JhENTDM6m4U.html Though I'm aware uploads have been slower in general as of late and I apologise for that, (lots of things going on at the moment). But I appreciate the continued support and will bear this in mind for the future.

@@SomeBoiOnline lol, didn't even think to check the date the video was posted. Thank you for the quick reply. If I may be completely honest however, the link you included in your reply played out to me more like an earmark as such. Maybe it was I that got it into my mind that a 2nd video of similar length was on the way. Anyway I appreciate you regardless.

The remaining Sesame Street veterans are Martin P. Robinson, Pam Arciero and Noel MacNeal.

Whitmire would become a close friend to Caroll Spinney in the latter's final years. Seeing that Spinney was the first Muppet performer Whitmire met, and it was Spinney who urged Whitmire to audition, it makes perfect sense.

I _want_ to say Joey Mazzarino started working on Sesame Street while Henson was still alive (and even did uncredited puppeteering for _The Muppets at Walt Disney World_ !), but like Carmen Osbahr, was just getting his sea legs at that point.

I've been considering that for a while actually 😀

That's a pretty accurate summary of it all yeah.

@@SomeBoiOnline agree

For the record, there's no bad blood between Whitmire and Sesame Workshop. When the nonprofit organization went through a financial red period in the mid 2010's, they couldn't afford to have Whitmire fly in from Atlanta. So Whitmire relinquished Ernie with no hard feelings.

And The Jim Henson Company, for that matter. Who else could they pick to perform Wembley Fraggle for new content? Sure, there's Frankie Cordero, but I'm not sure they could cover flying in Frankie from New York since he's a Sesame Street performer and all.

@@tysargent9647 More importantly, Whitmire was first given the character of Wembley because Henson, Jerry Juhl, Michael Frith and Jocelyn Stevenson all thought he would play the character, bring out the personality and the dynamics with the other Fraggles and their performers. That's even worse than replacing him as Kermit!

@@yosefdemby8792 Jeez, both the Henson family and Disney delivered a two-punch blow to themselves when they showed Whitmire the door.

Likewise, when Martin P. Robinson prepared to take over the role of Mr. Snuffleupagus, Jerry Nelson only gave him advice about the voice, and even then it was in joke form: "Start drinking and smoking."

Bill is a veteran Muppet performer why? It doesn't say you have to meet the king before it's die, no Jim state that “ being a performer comes from the heart of the character and that's a great peformer ” - recall by Steve Frank Oz have a great bond with Bill, he writes episodes of the Muppet bits, sketch, and more. That's why Bill is In the puppeteer talks along with Jerry, Dave, Fran...

You're right. How narrow-minded of me.

@@amaimonpheles8 And to be fair, Barretta _has_ met Henson. At Sesame Place, where he was working with Henson's son Brian. Also, I like to think of how Joey Mazzarino and Carmen Osbahr were hired only months before Henson's death, how they were just getting their sea legs so to speak.

I'm pretty sure it's stated somewhere that Frank had worked Eric beforehand and recommended him, or something akin to that.

Sugar, forgot to add it in the video description 😅 but it's there now!

You're missing the point. As veteran performers, Frank Oz and Steve Whitmire would know The Muppets better than Disney.

@@yosefdemby8792 It was a joke. Also I think they should have found a new actor that can match the voice more.

@@icecreamhero2375 I knew that was a joke. The point is that Disney never should've fired Whitmire at all. They'd be better trying to rehire him rather than replace him.

@@yosefdemby8792 In all fairness we don't know the full story.

Matt Vogel’s Kermit is better than Steve Whitmire’s and you know that! And you also know darn well that only puppeteers get hired to play Kermit and that Seth MacFarlane is not a puppeteer! Even with repeating that terrible, overused, annoying, mean-spirited, god-awful, unfunny joke! 😡

No rehiring Steve! He was too difficult to work with!

@@philipkippel3615 Plenty of great people are. Sadly though he won't be brought back.

@@philipkippel3615 don’t believe anything out of Disney’s mouth

No, it would mean scenes with Cookie Monster, Bert and Grover.

You’re wrong! YOU are awful and so was Steve’s Kermit, you asshole! 😡

@@philipkippel3615 Can't you say it in a nicer way?

It was totally intentional 😆

It could sadly be worse... it could have been Warner Bros. and have David Zaslav remove Muppet Show episodes like he did with Sesame Street.

Really? Steve was nothing but nice to me when I met him, and several other puppeteers (among them Mike Quinn, Frank Oz, Bill Baretta, and Peter Linz) have spoken up in support of him. The only puppeteer I know of who hates Steve is Rick Lyon, who from what I've heard isn't such a nice person himself. Heck, there are negative rumors about Brian too.

@MichaelSar12IsBack as far as folks I know have divulged, Steve was responsible for a Muppet "blacklist". And let me be clear: Steve has never been anything but EXTREMELY pleasant and accommodating to me, personally, when I have interacted with him. But that's not the information I have from at least half-dozen other professional puppeteers. It was explained to me that Steve's blacklist was his attempt at keeping Disney from disassociating specific performers from legacy Muppet characters. In the end, it just pissed off the professional puppeteers and didn't do a thing to stop Disney from re-assigning characters as they saw fit. No matter where his intentions originated, he came off looking bad and his continued friction with Disney brass ended up kiboshing his career with the Muppets. If they wanted to slap him down, they could have simply taken Kermit from him and relegated him back to strictly Rizzo and Bean. But they fired him. That speaks to much bigger irritation worthy of dismissal.

@@spcglider From which puppeteers did you get this information from? Again, the only puppeteer who I know of Steve might've had a hand in "blacklisting" was Rick Lyon from "Sesame Street" - not because he saw him as a threat, but because Rick stole David Rudman's personal notes. The idea that Steve "blacklisted" puppeteers seems to stem from Disney's attempt at having a million puppeteers perform each character so they could be everywhere at once (on cruise lines, at Disney Store openings, etc.). The claim is that Steve blacklisted all those puppeteers who auditioned. But not only does it not make sense for Steve to blame the puppeteers for Disney's misguided ideas, or for Disney to give Steve power over who does or doesn't get hired for projects (especially if they really hated him so much)... one of those puppeteers, Brett O'Quinn (who auditioned for Gonzo), worked on at least two productions - the Lady Gaga special and "Muppets Most Wanted" - after that. And I frequently see Artie Esposito brought up as one of the puppeteers who Steve blacklisted because he performed Kermit a couple times in 2009, but he's never said anything nasty about Steve. In fact, from what I've heard, he's actually spoken up in support of Steve.

@MichaelSar12IsBack I wouldn't reveal their names and betray their confidentiality. But now that Steve is no longer involved, many of the blacklisted actually have been working with/for Muppet productions. And I've been told that's precisely why. The fact that Peter and Bill and Frank, etc. don't publicly badmouth a former Muppeteer says they respect professionalism.

Steve Whitmire has no qualms with Sesame Workshop. it's just that when going through a financial red period in the mid 2010's, they could no longer afford to have Whitmire fly in from Atlanta, so Whitmire left the show with no hard feelings.

Also, I don't think you should phrase it as "Disney/Sesame Workshop". You make it sound like it's the same company with the same goals. Sesame Workshop is a nonprofit organization determined to help educate children.

@@yosefdemby8792 Fair point.

Love the reference to the final Kermit speech to Doc Hopper from the original Muppet Movie. It definitely seems applicable here! Brilliant! 😄

Disney didn't lie, Eric Jacobson had performed Fozzie for like at least a decade by that point. They even directly credited Jacobson himself.