He didn't ''kill'' her, you idiot. gods, how can people be so ignorant? Flemeth has been holding out for Mythal through the ages, ''seeking the justice denied to her'' as Mythal granted her the power to attain hers. She isn't clinging onto life for no reason. Somehow, that justice is aligned with the dread wolf's purpose, but it isn't completely clear yet. But to say he ''killed her'', when she sounded like a dear friend; the straw that drove him to an action he deems too far (in retrospect), is absurd. It's like complexity and nuance doesn't exists your dictionaries, and probably why you fools can't comprehend any character more fleshed out than a *boy scout* , or a *mustache-twirling villain* .
@@leone41ll Do you feel better now? Does insulting people make you feel superior? Because with all that talk of nuance and you think you can judge my ability to understand the subtlety and nuance from reading one comment. lol How can you talk AT a real person and take yourself seriously enough to make a comment about how well they understand fictional characters? We tend to see ourselves in others and it belies the fact that you're just a bad person, my boy. Maybe you have some mental infirmities that limit your ability. I don't know. But either way it would be beneath me. Have a nice day.
@@ConnorLonergan i don't know about consent. I think that she didn't fight back because of 2 reasons. 1. This is probably part of her plan. 2. Killing him would break her own plan. But it doesn't mean that's not what he INTENDED to do. Solas wanted her power and if it meant killing her he was going to get it. If he picked up the orb after he beats Corypheus and it worked, we would've been the first people to catch that mfer. And you could've been his lover or not. It did not matter. He's gonna feel bad about it later but you gonna die now. If you really pay attention to Trespasser's narrative and the convo with Solas you'll be able to see that it's him who controls the mark and is making it hurt you so you bring it back to him. He can turn it on and off at will while you're there. You only see it if you try to attack him. That guy is the worst lol
@@Goodboysforlife Ok, on one, that would mean there was consent from Mythal; I mean, why bother planning for someone to kill you yet not want them to kill you? And as for two, yes, his original plan was not to kill Mythal, just grab the Orb from Cory after fixing the mess. But that ended up going sideways, so Solas enacts a contingency, which meant taking Mythals power. as for the Inquisitor, when Solas grabbed the Orb, no, he would not have killed them then and there; in fact, his plan involved keeping the Inquisition (or at last the Inquisitor) around because they prove to be a stabilizing force, a force that would make the tearing of the Veil seems like a medical suicide (in his opinion to be precise.) And even when he does tear down the Veil, contrary to popular belief, not everyone in Thedas dies from it. The Tearing of the Veil would be akin to a natural disaster. Something that would cause apoptotic destruction and death, but Survivors would be a thing. Also, Solas doesn't "turn the mark on and off at will." what he does in Trespasser is stabilize it for a short while. But the power is too unstable, so amputating is the only way to save the Inquisitor. (an amputation he gives to the Inquisitor regardless of relationship. I'd say that eliminates the whole "wants the Inquisitor dead." Idea if he is saving them anyway.)
I'm just going to add that I find it interesting that the Warden Freidl that Lesha and Ramesh come across in Horrors of Hormak had missing eyes and she also chewed through her wrists and bindings from what they could tell when they found her body. Which is in direct correlation with the statue in Dragon Age Origins about Ghilan'nain stating: "He blinded her first, and then bound her as one would bind a kill fresh from the hunt. But because he was cursed, the hunter could not kill her. Instead he left her for dead in the forest. And Ghilan'nain prayed to the gods for help. Andruil sent her hares to Ghilan'nain and they chewed through the ropes that bound her..." The similarities are striking to me. It might not be anything really. I just think it's interesting the the Dalish history always has an inkling of truth in it.
The more I heard about the expirments the more I thought about Caridin. The more I thought about Caridin, the more I thought about Amgarrak and Orsino. Harvesters definitely reek of Ghilan'nain.
That's exactly what I was thinking as soon as I heard about the Aravel slave carts. That their true purpose was forgotten and the Dalish just interpreted them as something else entirely. Like the Vallaslin.
The fact that discussions this deep can be made about the lore is one of my largest reasons DA is my favourite series, and the fact that the foundation was laid in origins speaks to the awesome skill in writing. Also love the vid, really well structured and am looking forward to all your other discussion vids!
It really is amazing. It can seriously contend with how deep Tolkien's work was. I wish Gaider was still with Bioware or at the very least the top consultant to the history and lore since Dragon Age is pretty much his baby.
@@andrewvincent7299 agreed, Gaider there would be great but I still have hope with Patrick considering his contributions and writings were amazing Here's hoping Dreadwolf goes in a good direction with the lore and everything!
"Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew. Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you. In my arms lies Eternity. " The green lyrium from horror of Hormok always reminded me of this. Maybe the green lyrium is from the void. or related to it in some way.
I have no idea why it took 2 years for this video to hit my suggestions. I am almost constantly looking for and watching DA lore theories. And I also don't know why it was your reminder about the codex entry about the beasts of sky, land, and sea that made "she created the griffons" when it mentions she destroyed all but one that she created for Andruil... I may be wrong, of course, but I definitely think it's the case. Along with the fact that I believe she is responsible for the qunari as we know them today. Ghil is the main reason I am hoping DAD does these old tales justice. They've set her up to be amazing, whether it's amazingly villainous, or amazingly heroic.
Go to the Hissing Wastes, you'll find the yellow/green lyrium you are looking for. It's always where a Rift has been. It sticks out in jagged peaks out of the sand.
I feel Ghilly put the monster factories underground to ensure they wouldn't just rush out. This video is really good, either way. You really put the pieces together to showcase this disparate narrative that DA is known for. Given that the writers said they had the mythos+etc. it seems that Ghilly was planned for a foe for a (long) while.
My guess is Solas' attempt to pit the Evanuris against each other is what actually set the events in motion that killed Mythal. I'm also guessing the mural in tresspasser is another take on Ghilanins OG story when she becomes the halla. Why would Andruil be hunting her? The hunter killing the hawk may refer to falon din. Which is what he supposedly represents in that tresspasser mural. I can't decide if she went after Ghilly before or after she fought Mythal. But in either case she had her mind altered by the void or Mythal. So it's not unusual she would go after Ghilly. Maybe at the behest of Mythal, under her influence, or under the influence of her void weapons. Or another possibility is that Ghilly is the one who warped her mind with the void weapons and set her on her war parth. It's Solas' Mural and it puts her in the "wolf outwits them all" column in solas' own propaganda about his war. Mythal was an adversary just like all the others.
I find the parallel between Ggilan'nain and the ancient mesopotamian Tiamat (and by extension greek Echidna) very interesting. They're both mother goddesses that "birthed" monsters upon the world, but also created mundane animals, namely fish and reptiles in the case of Tiamat.
This is the reason that from now on I can only accept the Dalish origin in DAO as canon, the fact that the first few scenes with Tamlen that seemed so small at the time come full circle and turn out to have so much significance to where we are now makes the writing just 🤌
Thanks for your hard work! I've long suspected the downfall of the elves that Abalas refers to was caused by the Evanuris themselves. The ancient elves I think were not as uniform as the current elves see them now. Like, it may have been a unified culture, but the elves who followed each Evanuris were very different, maybe they even existed on different planes of reality (no veil). Whatever perverted culture was established by the ancient elves it is starting feel like the Dread Wolf is only small piece of its downfall. Ghilan'nain's shenanigans combined with Andruil's misadventures and the Dread Wolf's revolutionary aims all seem to be critical components of Arlathan's downfall. Can't wait to obsess over details in the next DA game which add to this picture.
It seems like they’re trying to draw out Ghilly’s character as an analogue to mythological monster mothers like Tiamat or Echidna. Both were giant serpent women who spawned plenty of horrors. Although I do really like Ghill’s characterization of being basically a Batman villain. Having a PhD in DC Comics is such a coin toss.😂
I hadn't known about Tiamat before - I just read her wiki page and I can't help seeing parallels to Mythal??? My head is swarming with new new heories rn...
You put some clips of her, so I'm sure you've thought about it, but Ghilan'nain's creations immediately made me think of The Mother and her Children. Darkspawn? check. Insect-like apendages? check. Tentacles? check. humanoid torso? check. In fact, the Broodmothers' whole deal feels very Ghilan'nain-body-horror-ish to me
Ghilan'ain is getting a lot of attention makes me worked up for more info on the so called more powerful elven gods lol. It always bugged me that Solas made the entire Evanuris out to be the bad guys for killing Mythal but then doesn't that set all of them up to be antagonist as well as the forgotten ones. It just seems like so few good guys 😆.
The evanuris are coming back since Solas will tear the veil down and they are the villains in the future. Thats the way the series will go it seems and tevinter will probably follow the old gods the evanuris
Great Video! I would be interested to hear more of your theories on Qunari which you briefly touched on in this video because I always wondered what Kieran meant by “I just feel bad about what happened to your people” & “I noticed your blood, it doesn’t belong to your people.” My theory is that the ancient elves were infused with dragon blood since Qunari have elvish like ears and horns that are Dragon Horns, because Cole tells Iron Bull that his horns aren’t Bull horns but Dragon Horns. But who infused these Ancient Elves with Dragon Blood? Tevinter? Because they are the only ones who had elves as slaves which was established long ago and the tevinter imperium are known for their wild magic experiments & are usually cold blooded humans. Or was it the Qun? Which I doubt because I don’t think they had elves during the before times nor did the Qun belief even began since those who predated the Qun were known as the Kossith. But since your theories Turn out to be correct it would be cool to hear you explore that realm bit more.
Furthermore though, in this video Iron Bull says that the Kossith didn’t look like how they do now? So were they the Ancient Elves that were experimented on with the Dragon Blood? Iron bull continues to say that “Dragons are the embodiment of Raw power but it’s all uncontrolled, Savage” that makes me think of the Tal Vashoth because since those who are qunari and part of the Qun are usually controlled by them and they make sure that their murder like instincts are kept under control. But the tal vashoth turn their backs on the Qun maybe because the dragon blood causes them to become outlaws and the rage furthers them to act out and become savage like creatures just like Dragons. I probably make no sense but that’s my full theory thesis here. Do hope you make a video on this if you can!
@@teamdaigurren6007 To add on to your theory, Iron bull says that they were brought south to thedas but he isn’t sure why. I think that Ancient Elves that had Dragon blood mixed with their DNA (which may be the Kossith) were exiled from the Tevinter Imperium because the experiment they did on these Ancient Elves went complete wrong and they became waaay too uncontrollable and started wreaking havoc which could be linked to the whole the war that seems to always happen between Tevinter and the Qunari but I could be grasping for straws here lol.
I find Corypheus' knowledge about the Qunari most interesting because of the timeline. Obviously Tevinter pilfered the *remains* of Arlathan, but that was after the Elvan "Gods" had been locked away, and it was even later that the Magisters Siderial entered the Golden City... just Cory is so far removed in time from Ghil, so if she is responsible for Kossith experiments creating what we now know as the Qunari how did Cory discover this if the Qunari didn't arrive in Theadas until *after* he was imprisoned by the Grey Wardens?
I subscribe to the theory that Ghilan'nain created not the Qunari but the Kossith. They became the modern Qunari after that whole selective breeding thing. I also believe that she created the primates that would later evolve into humans. That would take ages but hey, elves were immortal and they had crazy magic going around, she could have somehow accelerated their growth.
It is more likely that humans came from across the sea, where they had a separate civilisation from elves in Thedas, probably also linked to the fade before the veil, and then it crumbled after the veil was created, and thus migration happened. Wouldn't it be too much for elves to literally create (almost) every other race? That would be literally the worst decision if the creators of the games made it so
@@KateeAngel Sure- and it would also be kinda eye rolling. "The elves did this!" again is getting a little tiresome tbh. (And I'm a huge elf stan XD) Besides- it kinda takes away any agency humans have
@@KateeAngel I mean presumably all that exists either came from the sky/fade/spirits or from the earth/titans, elves formed out of spirits, dwarves used to be part of titan hiveminds. It would suck way more if we know how all else came to exist except the super special humans bc humans are real etc. They should be a proper part of the world.
Humans didn't evolve from primates, they appeared spontaneously shortly after the Veil was created, and their history doesn't remember a time before the Veil. More than likely they are spirits that were trapped on this side of the Veil in physical forms when the Veil was put up. Which is similar to how elves came to be, they were once spirits that took physical form.
AhHA. FOUND IT! Oh man, I love "Ghilan'nain is Sus." Ok, so did she create gryphons? Because now I'm wondering. OK, I got questions and opinions but I put 'em on Discord 😂
Probably she killed all her sky creatures except the ones she gifted to the elven gods and griffons seems like something that would be a great majestic gift.
@@girltriesgames very likely. Griffons being majestic creatures could be a great gift and them being used by the Evanuris would actually be a reason that griffons would be considered in high regard
This elven lady made creatures so monstrous, the gods themsleves didnt want to deal with them. And so they made her a god just to get kill of the things they feared? This lady a Legend!!
Did you said "creepy"? lol. You leave me with so many strands of thoughts with this video about Ghilly that I can wrap my cat with it. Another awesome job!
A bit late to the party, but I haven't read the Tevinter Nights, as it's not yet translated into my native language and I prefer to support translating books, so it is the first time I've heard about the Horror of Hormak. And what you describe sounds a lot like the Forge from the Golems of Amgarrak DLC from DA:O. It's not the same, but the body horror, the involvement of the Fade and "planar shifting" seems like something more advanced than the Tevinter magister helpig Dolvish would come up with. It's said that it was based on Caridin's work, but it doesn't sit right with me. I stand on an opinion that Amgarrak made use of old Ghilan'nain's work - if your theory is correct. And it backfired. Also it would be just great to see another DA:O DLC tie in to it all :D
ooooooooh. Interesting. I never did that quest so I read through a bunch of the related lore. All the different types of lyrium pools. Very interesting stuff.
I always found Dirthamens statue being stabbed in the back interesting. We know he was the keeper of secrets, I'm wondering whether he was either responsible for the knowledge on how to kill Mythal or more likely he gave Solas the knowledge that led to his own entrapment. He was definitely betrayed in some way.
28:42 the figure on the left with the moon head is above meredith and the red lyrium blade from da2. The figure on the right looks like an owl must be falondin. Beneath him is corypheus with the focus from dai. Maybe moonhead made the red lyrium and falondin made the focii
Could be that Ghilan'nain being the "chosen" of Andruil meant that she was her target, not a favored one. And the hunter who mutilated her was Andruil, too. But then they managed to come to "an understanding"?
I'll go out on a limb and speculate that the Scaled Ones are the first Dark Spawn. In origins, we see Darkspawn building statues and altar like things, and I do believe that the first Darkspawn would have been dwarves.
@@girltriesgames That's what I love so much about extended DA lore. The unreliable narrators leave a lot of room for speculation, and honestly, some questions don't need definite answers. Please keep up the good work! P.S. When it comes to the riddle, it's possible that Andruil, after coming back from a hunt, was so taken by madness that she started hunting Ghilan'nain. And since we have no details on how exactly Mythal managed to rid Andruil of her madness and Void armor, it's possible that Andruil was never the same after the battle, and that Ghilan'nain went after Mythal because of this. Either way, I am rooting for Ghillie all the way.
Another a month too late comment. I always was under an impressions that there are so many dark spawn simply because the Blight firrst rolled over the dwarves, not necceserily that they were the first ones. And we know for sure that we get baby darkspawn from broodmothers that are corrupted "normal" females: a fallen dwarven empire => many, many dwarven broodmothers. But I feel like the first darkspawn being dwarves would be below the level of plot-twist we are used to by now in DA!
Also in that last entry, probably One sees the hunter = Ghilly, One flees from it = IDK LOL, One hunts it in turn = Mythal when confronting Andruil over her madness, One outwits them all = Fen’Harel, I would guess
I LOVED Inquisition and always will, but one thing it missed was some horror/dark elements that the first games both had. I am really hoping we can see some of Ghil's monster's in Dreadwolf. I'm wondering if we may see a "beast in the sea" in Antiva or something.
I could imagine that Ghilan'nain really look like a Dark Eldar Haemonculus from Warhammer 40k which they are mad Elven scientist's who create such grotesque monstraties.
Did you notice in the picture with the snake centipede lady one of the people she’s attacking has a gold prosthetic leg? Makes me think she’s what came out the veil
I just found your channel and it's fantastic. What are your thoughts now that we saw Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan (allegedly) coming out of the failed ritual Solas was doing. Do you think that Ghilan'nain aspect matches all her experiments and legends surrounding her?
The deformed darkspawn reminds me of the Architect. Was he created by Ghilan'nain in her laboratory in the deep roofs? Although his name suggests a certain position of authority. Perhaps he was one of her finer creations? I’m theorizing the Architect could’ve been the Igor to Ghilan'nain’s Dr. Frankenstein.
Now...listening to your summary of Hormak has truly stirred my disgust and horror. Solas did the world really a favour locking away the Evanuris. But if they break free , imagine beings so twisted and perverse as these , after a captivity lasted for several thousands of years .Real nightmare fuel.
What is the Old gods were beings who were created in the Evanuris image, This ended up making them gods as well, so they were imprisoned by Evanuris simply for being a threat to their power.
Great videos, you have my sub and like, and I would love more videos on the history of the Qunari, both history, race and culture, you do great work and deserve like 1 mil subs easily.
Ok, I missed it before 5:50; that would make griffons - and possibly dragons, if we have that backwards - gifts for Andruil. Uh, yikes. And what the hell does three days have to do with it? And why would Solas stop her from destroying the sea monsters? Ok, I have more questions. And that stuff at 8:12 sounds like the Jardann speaking, now that I've played MEA.
Ummm… isn’t Lavellan’s clan symbolized by a halla…? Because that would really make the solas romance that much deeper if she has connections to Ghilan’nan distantly somehow without knowing it.
26:50 I disagree. The woman depicted in this mural sounds like Andruil. She has horns to symbolize her connection to nature. The Moon is under her foot because of her fight with Mythal in the myths. Otherwise, perhaps it is because Mythal was her mother.
This is what I suspect, too, because in Greek mythology the moon is associated with Diana the Huntress. The stag would be 'Andruil's animal' (Ghilan'nain) and Mythal put the moon in the sky, which could be a reference to Mythal healing Andruil or even making her a goddess. There's more going on with this pantheon than we've intuited even yet.
@@girltriesgames you absolutely could be right; there's been so much obfuscation in the Elven lore that pretty much anything will work at this point, if they want to twist stuff around.
Oh, wow, I hadn’t thought to interpret the mural this way before. What led you to identifying the horns with Andruil? Ghilan’nain’s the only one depicted with horns or halla in game, and in the codices Andruil’s mentioned with the hare, which, imo supports Solas’s assertion that she’s a goddess of sacrifice. What led you to identify horns with her? I’d be eager to see anything in game that depicts her this way.
