Was NYC 999 the First Steam Locomotive to Reach Over 100MPH?

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On May 10, 1893, New York Central's 4-4-0 Number 999 while pulling the "Empire State Express," allegedly reached a speed of 112.5 miles per hour for one mile west of Batavia, New York. Immediately after the famous run, newspapers immortalized the locomotive and its engineer Charley Hogan with their sensational headlines claiming it was the fastest steam locomotive in the world. However, some railroad historians and railroad professionals think that speed was overestimated due to several reasons.
Shout out to ‪@schnauzahpowahz‬ for providing the CGI footage.
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Works Cited:
Withuhn, William, and Hansen. American Steam Locomotives: Design and Development, 1880-1960. Amsterdam, Netherlands, Amsterdam UP, 2019.
White, John H., Jr. (2014). "Reflections On NYC 999". Railroad History (211): 124. ISSN 0090-7847.
“Over a Mile a Minute, the Fastest Long-Distance Run Ever Made on a Railroad.” The Sun (New York, New York), 15 September 1891, Page 1.
“The New York Central’s Latest Express Locomotive.” Locomotive Engineering : A Practical Journal of Railway Motive Power and Rolling Stock, vol. 5, no. 11, Nov. 1892, p. 385. archive.org/details/locomotiveengine56hill/page/n393/mode/2up?q=Buchanan+.
"America's First Locomotive. A Reproduction of the DeWitt Clinton and Its Train." Chicago Tribune (Chicago, Illinois), 26 Apr 1893, Page 10.
"Over 86 Miles An Hour. Remarkable Run of the New York Central's World's Fair Locomotive." Buffalo Courier (Buffalo, New York), 30 Apr 1893, Page 3.
“New York Central’s World’s Fair Locomotive.” Locomotive Engineering : A Practical Journal of Railway Motive Power and Rolling Stock, vol. 6, no. 5, May 1893, p. 207. archive.org/details/locomotiveengine56hill/page/206/mode/2up?q=Buchanan+.
"A Record Breaker For the Year." The Electrical Engineer: A Weekly Review of Theoretical and Applied Electricity, vol. 15, no. 269, 10 May, 1893, p. 470.
“103 Miles! Charley Hogan and the Empire State Express Break All Railroad Records.” The Buffalo News (Buffalo, New York), 10 May 1893, Page 7.
"113 Miles! Great "999" Made a Mile in 32 Seconds Yesterday." The Buffalo News (Buffalo, New York), 11 May 1893, Page 25.
“The Fastest Locomotive in the World.” Locomotive Engineering : A Practical Journal of Railway Motive Power and Rolling Stock, vol. 6, no. 6, June 1893, pp. 241-42. archive.org/details/locomotiveengine56hill/page/240/mode/2up?q=999.
“William Buchanan, and Charles Hogan.” Locomotive Engineering : A Practical Journal of Railway Motive Power and Rolling Stock, vol. 6, no. 7, July 1893, p. 290. archive.org/details/locomotiveengine56hill/page/290/mode/2up?q=999.
"A Great Race. American and English Locomotive Will Contest." The Salem Daily News (Salem, Ohio), 17 Oct 1893, Page 2.
"Locomotives Will Not Race." The Boston Globe (Boston, Massachusetts), 20 Oct 1893, Page 2.
Collins, Jas. H. “A Railroad and Its Prophet.” Printers’ Ink, 12 Mar. 1902, pp. 3-6.
“A Dinner to George H. Daniels.” Railway International Passenger and Ticket Agents Journal, vol. 13, no. 11, Feb. 1906. 21-22.
“Famous Locomotive “No. 999” Now Humble.” Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York), 15, April 1916, Page 5.
"999 Once Pride of N.Y. Central, is 'Junked' Now." The Buffalo Times (Buffalo, New York), 8, August 1920, Page 35.
#NYC999 #NewYorkCentral999 #EmpireStateExpress

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30 дек 2022

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Комментарии : 201

@09JDCTrainMan Год назад

Whether she went 112.5 mph or not, she's still a historic beauty and I'm glad she's preserved.

@Honeydwarf85 Год назад

Definitely for sure! I do wish she kept or had replicas made of those massive drivers!

@manga12 Год назад

@@Honeydwarf85 I hear you it would be nice but reach into those pockets, cuz the prr t1's driver are 25000 each for the one they are building, it is comming along though now comes the frame, but the later ones were no where near as pretty built as the oldest machines from the early days. there is also a questionable claim in 1905 a prr engine briefly went 127 in the boarderlands of ohio and indiana on the way to fort wayne the altoona of the west, but some say it was not possible for the capabillites of the engine and the posts may not have been spaced exactly. that loco sadly was cut up in the 30's and a sister class of her got her name plate and took her place for show like at the worlds fair and so on, now its in the pennsy railroad museum I belive next to the straussburg railroad, would be something if actually true its faster then even the official record today, let alone all the later big engines that had even more power, like the t1's the s1, the s2, and the q 1 and 2, as well as the mohawks on the waterlevel, and niagras the peak of them all as far as design went. but none are as powerful as the engines lima built in shear horsepower running.

@marcleslac2413 Год назад

@Fake Furry and not violently ripped up by a certain nyc chainsaw weilding madman

@paulnicholson1906 Год назад

In the late 80’s we went to Chicago and it was raining and I was outside looking at this locomotive (it was outside and forlorn then) with fascination and my wife thought I was nuts. Good to see it inside and looked after.

@paulnicholson1906 Год назад

@harrybobb1692 I think it is only cosmetically restored.

@thesteamengineer442 Год назад

Man, the 999 looks like it would tip over with a light breeze. That height-width ratio is insane!

@electrictractiontrainsandt3063 Год назад

Great looking engine for sure. That height-width ratio definitely is immediately noticeable.

@Shinyarc Год назад

Trains would do that, if not for the extremely small contact (we’re talking half an inch) their wheels have with the rails. It makes it’s weight a lot more effective and gives it more grip than if it had tires

@K-Effect Год назад

To go 100mph today in a steam engine sounds insane, I can’t imagine what that must’ve been like back than

@LongStripeyScarf Год назад

We’re still doing it in Britain. Tornado did it only a couple of years ago, even after the signallers made a mess of the plan.

@K-Effect Год назад

@@LongStripeyScarf I appreciate that but I’m not talking about a few years ago. I’m talking about back then, when this was hi tech, cutting edge transportation technology

@NYCS19339 Год назад

Need to look into the PRR T-1...

@K-Effect Год назад

@@NYCS19339 I have. You should make a donation

@ellisjackson3355 10 месяцев назад

Today people would be scared but back then this was peak technology. The way we see the bullet train doing 200, that's how they saw this train doing 100+ back then

@JulianWatsonThe400 Год назад

999 is easily, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful locomotives ever built. The styling, lettering, and proportions are just beautiful. I'm glad you made this video, before I really didn't know anything about the Empire State Express.

@abuBrachiosaurus Год назад

It's so poetic that it started being shown next to an "old" locomotive at the show, then years later being used as the older locomotive

@cleveshows Год назад

I am the VP of the Painesville Railroad Museum and we are current owners of the Collinwood 999 Engine. What a great video and thank you for including our engine. The Collinwood 999 engine was build at the NYC Collinwood yard in 1932.

@thatconservativetrainguy3864 Год назад

Wait I thought it was owned by the museum of science and industry which is why it’s in Chicago

@WalterKiefer Год назад

@@thatconservativetrainguy3864 He's referring to the replica they use in parades, not the original engine.

@MachineRail Год назад

Extremely educational and historical video! We are very grateful to you for using our Empire State Express Bundle for Train Simulator Classic.

@RailroadStreet Год назад

Thank you, and you are quite welcome! Your company's Train Simulator add on pack model is phenomenal. Definitely the best one made of 999 that I've ever seen!

@kermitefrog64 Год назад

This is impressive. I have seen steam locomotives on RU-vid from the United Kingdom that have reached similar speeds. To have a mechanical steam powered locomotive is a tribute to the creativity and genius of the designers of these incredible machines.

@MilkDrinker218 Год назад

I was on a high school field trip to the Chicago Science and Industry Museum a few years ago. It was for my German class, we were going to visit the U-Boat exhibit. My teacher made it plainly clear that we would not have time to visit any other exhibits. As it turned out, our bus home ran late, and my teacher gave us permission to visit another exhibit while we waited. Our meeting point was right next to the room 999 was held in, so I gunned it as fast as I could. On our way out I also caught a glimpse of the Zephyr’s coaches. Swish looking train. 999, spectacular locomotive. I doubt it went 100 mph, same for City of Truro, but am I going to ruin the novelty for others? Had that legend not existed, the engine wouldn’t be here today, and that’s what’s important.

@AndreiTupolev Год назад

As with so many of these, the thing to be grateful for is that whether it actually did or not, the mere legend was enough to make sure that it was saved and not scrapped (just like City of Truro in the UK)

@acessoriesnotincluded2597 Год назад

I was just watching some railroad street videos last night and wondering when the next one will drop, quite a nice surprise to wake up to.

@CSXT17 Год назад

Matt, another fantastic video! Your research is second to none in the railfan (especially youtube) space. Keep it up! Look forward to watching the next one :)

@RailroadStreet Год назад

Hey Keith, thanks so much! It's been awhile, how are you?

@user-dn4iv2ne6r 10 месяцев назад

When I was in my early teens, an elderly former engineer moved into the neighborhood. He told me with some pride that he had had the pleasure of running the 999. It was rather sad to see it sitting in the snow at the museum. As a side note, the larger locomotive there (a Northern???) was being moved to the museum along Lakeshore Avenue one Sunday afternoon as we were headed home. There were several truck cranes in attendance moving the track panels as the locomotive moved under steam to the museum.

@motorTranz Год назад

Excellent documentary! Thank you!

@paulnicholson1906 Год назад

Determining speed by mile markers is pretty accurate. I have done it when on a train ironically the Empire Service Amtrak run. I have also done it when in the car on the interstate. Car speedometers are off a few mph even today back then I would think that they would be not as good. If they were measuring 35 seconds a mile they were going pretty fast and even with a bit of error they were over 100.

@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Год назад

Exactly! Even in more modern times, if you drive an American car made in the late 1970s-1980s that displays a maximum of 85mph on the speedometer, you can take it beyond that speed and calculate it's true speed with mile markers on the road side and counting seconds between each marker(or use Google Maps gps, LoL)

@nosecone5921 Год назад

I'm certain she never touched over 100mph, but I'm also certain she was the fastest locomotive in the world at the time. It's great to see it having been preserved. :)

@sebastianmarconi2855 Год назад

Great video mate!!

@electrictractiontrainsandt3063 Год назад

Excellent Video And Great Channel!👍

@bruceconner3890 Год назад

thank you for this Great video. Thank you for telling about the Role of Avis in this famous story! i went through the old yard several times. verry proud that she is part of this Great story !

@thelittletug9321 Год назад

If people believe that city of truo went 100 mph I believe that this one could

@BlackNovember_94 10 месяцев назад

I’ve recently played Red Dead Redemption 2 & looked up what the game’s locomotives are based on: the 4-4-0 is based on 999 while the 4-6-0 is based on the Sierra No. 3 aka the train that pushed the DeLorean up to 88mph. Also I’m not really a fan of 4-4-0s but I really like this 1.

@SouRwy4501Productions Год назад

I don’t know why but every time I look at 999, I think “I wanna drive that thing!”

@richardbrewer9251 Год назад

Very well researched and presented.

@highoctanegames Год назад

I have seen this locomotive irl before and it always made me curious whether this, Flying Scotsman, or City of Truro was the first to hit 100

@asdatrollys8944 Год назад

I’m always of the opinion that it was the Scotsman but as a Scotsman I’m kinda biased 😅

@elizavetamixailova3848 Год назад

Good work!!

@schnauzahpowahz Год назад

Always enjoy your videos. This one especially 😉

@duck1946 Год назад

Good looking locomotive, looks fast standing still ! I am a Brit but have always found these"American" class locos very elegant and they were also a long serving locomotive, As to the speeds , well it was early days and City of Truro suffered similarly,did she or didnt she? I would like to close the book and say its all true, until the dynomometer car came along.

@OldmanGamerYT Год назад

That was Painesville, Ohio! So, cool! I just went over those tracks and passed Smoothie King the other day!

@NYandAtlantic Год назад

Whether it got to that speed or not is still unreal and for it’s time that was fast cant believe the steam engines got even to 100 without breaking down. Damn shame they aren’t around today. History being lost daily

@prototype8254 Год назад

Omg I remember seeing that the locomotive when I was in 5 grade for a field trip. Now I thought it wasn’t and actual train. But thanks to this video I know it was the real thing. And it had so much history to it. Man I wish I could go back and see the train.

@davefrompa5334 Год назад

Very well researched and well presented. Just one observation - she's still a handsome engine, but she's lost her 86 inch driving wheels

@nelsonnoname001 Год назад

If it did, or didn't, I think we can agree that She was one of the fastest, and her crew were competent and good =)

@FranquitoMV2004 Год назад

Also i think she was the Fastest 4-4-0, but im not sure

@nelsonnoname001 Год назад

@@FranquitoMV2004 I'd say she was, and the last of an era, went out in style - speaking of era, Happy New Year!

@FranquitoMV2004 Год назад

@@nelsonnoname001 Happy new year to you too boii, and for everyone in general

@Shipwright1918 Год назад

The manga/anime Galaxy Express 999 takes its name from the famous flyer, as does the eponymous train within. Though the locomotive that pulls it is a JNR C62 4-6-4, itself a record setting class of engine, the passenger train's headboard and tail end drumhead proudly displays "999".

@tylergreen4843 Год назад

16:16 that's a nice whistle Reminds me of pennsylvania railroad 7002's whistle

@usernameisusername Год назад

These machines have no rival in their beauty and strength.

@usernameisusername Год назад

@Outlinedstorm76 I just meant steam locomotives in general. My God new pullers are hideous

@Tom-Lahaye 3 месяца назад

Very nice history story on 999. It looked stunning especially with the large 86" drivers, wished they could restore 999 back in that condition and not in its current rebuilt state. Even with a 5% error in the timings made this locomotive was still bloody fast, at least 98mph with a negative 5% error.

@burntsider8457 Год назад

A good story well told.

@catthecommentbothunter6890 Год назад

So City of Truro and Flying scotsman has another rival?

@matthewwilson5019 Год назад

Yup seems like it lol

@Kaidhicksii 11 месяцев назад

Fascinating story. Honestly, I no longer care which locomotive was the first to reach 100 mph. I've learned about so many famous locomotives in history at this point - some of whom did claim to be the first to reach the mythical three-figure speed - that that has become the most exciting part to me. :D

@MITSI1991 Год назад

Always wanted a model of this locomotive for my layout

@gregoryandrews4956 Год назад

As a Great Westerner I always believed that GWR City class no. 3440 (3717) City of Truro reached 102.3mph making it the first steam locomotive to reach 100mph.

@JRS06 Год назад

I'm British and I agree. City of Truro is also arguably the first engine to go 100mph.

@Zarglax Год назад

It's widely believed so but there was no official data recording this record (other than Great Western's own words) that's why Flying Scotsman is officially the first to reach 100mph because they recorded it but given the GW's flat mainlines I think Truro probably was the 1st

@pf32900 Год назад

@@Zarglax No official data recording this record (other than the Great Western's own words)? That's bollocks. The Great Western wanted to keep it quiet because they were afraid that the public would question their commitment to safety. Charles Rous-Marten (google him) did the timings and it wasn't until December 1907 that a table of maximum speeds of various locomotive classes was published in the Railway Magazine. City of Truro was finally named in the April 1908 edition as the City class loco that did 102.3 mph. 14 years later the Great Western finally laid claim to the record.

@Zarglax Год назад

@@pf32900 There was no official evidence (from say a dynamometer car or repeated performances) other than one persons timings done 3 years before publication and not acknowledged by the GWR until PR had shifted towards a prestige & speed outlook a decade or so later. I was trying to write quick- I don't really do essays on RU-vid comments!

@cameronfinnie9706 Год назад

As a fan of US steam, and a native of central NY, I want to believe this old girl did break that 100mph mark. She probably didn't, considering her build, but to it's just so nice to think about the old girl blasting through my home territory doing the dollar

@JohnDavies-cn3ro Год назад

Haven't heard that expression before. Here in GB we'd say 'doing the ton'.

@sorshiaemms5959 Год назад

Great video what a beautiful locomotive even with bad timers at 112 mph at that point it probably did 100 mph 12 mph leaves a lot of room for error and the blur of objects going by would indicate 100 mph 80 inch drivers would allow that

@railwriter6634 Год назад

The (East) German locomotive 18 201 was certified for 180 km/h (112 mph) and is still operable. It reportedly exceeded its official speed on some test runs. For a variety of reasons, current runs have not been anywhere near the locomotive's design speed. This locomotive was a one-of-a-kind developed especially for testing fast passenger rolling stock.

@redtobertshateshandles Год назад

Yes, but it used performance enhancing logs.

@t.s.racing Год назад

Red, rumor has it that the logs were soaked in Nitro Methane 👍🤣

@aspiceronni4462 Год назад

That was a great story.

@JohnDavies-cn3ro Год назад

The Buchanan 4-4-0's were beautiful engines, and designed for fast work; someone, I think it was O S Nock, said though that, due to the unbalanced reciprocating masses of her motion, at 112 mph the 999's driving wheels would have been lifting off the track with each revolution, which makes it a tadge unlikely. One thing which her run has in common with that of City of Truro is that - very unfairly - noone recorded the name of the fireman in either case. Without the tallow pot, neither of those speedsters were going anywhere! Old adage - the power of a steam locomotive varies in direct proportion to the strength of the fireman's back........ C Hamilton Ellis reckoned that the first driver to claim to have hit 100 mph was probably a USMRR hogger, outrunning a Confederate ambush!

@michaelcampin1464 Год назад

I doubt that claim basically because the track work isnt good enough and tbh US railways even today just arent up to the job hence the numerous derailments even recently

@zanetevis797 Год назад

L’Aigle was rumored to have reached 100mph around that time in France. But it may have never reached it in the first place.

@tylergreen4843 Год назад

Question, which month was New York Central 999 built? The locomotive is turning 130 Years old this year

@zacm.2342 Год назад

Always doubted her claim to it, glad to see that validated even at the time. I mean, she would've certainly been a speedy bugger, but hitting the ton seems a bit much to me. Glad she's preserved though.

@johnd8892 2 месяца назад

A more rigorous engineering based approach on RU-vid calculated the amount of steam needed for the horsepower to get to that speed coupled with the limitations of the cylinder back pressure. The more rigorous method calculated it would struggle to get into the nineties.

@frankmarkovcijr5459 Год назад

I have no doubt that the $9.99 went to 112 mile an hour. Well balanced steam engine can run as fast as the engineer can feed it Steam. Death Valley Scotty had a 262 Prairie hooked up to his private car and they spiked the switches in front of him and he made it from San Francisco I think to Chicago in like 30 hours or something. Faster than the Super Chief did 50 years later. A locomotive company could turn out one locomotive a month with a small company like Rogers who built the Sierra number 3. It took 28 days to build her originally and it took 3 years to restore her. Everything was craftsmanship and quality in those days. We exported 20% or more of the steam locomotives constructed to foreign countries because of the quality of our steam locomotives.

@muir8009 Год назад

Actually the exports were more to do with price and especially delivery times. The Baldwin products had notoriously poor metalurgic quality, the boilers having a lifespan of less than half of what the similar nasmyth product was. Contemporary reports by CME Allison, although extremely keen on the US products for their traffic suitability and delivery times, was very dismissive of their lack of quality.

@gamerfan8445 10 месяцев назад

I doubt 999 reach 100mph. The problem with her is the time period. Locomotive around her time are pretty fast but definitely will fail if they try to reach 90.

@BigBoy-nb4ui Год назад

City of truro, Flying Scotsman and Lindbergh Special would like to have a word

@packr72 Год назад

Those all came after 999s supposed run.

@matthewwilson5019 Год назад

Don't forget class Js they too are super fast steam locomotives

@mamarussellthepie3995 Год назад

Ngl Should rebuild it to the larger wheel+boiler standard lol

@washingtonradio Год назад

Has anyone calculated error on the speed measurement, human reaction times, etc. will influence the accuracy of the timings.

@Cesp43 Год назад

Eh, standard human reaction time is around 3 tenths of a second, so it would still be around 32 seconds, especially if you are actively looking out for the one mile post.

@whoohaaXL Год назад

Not sure but does it need to qualify as a traveling train with passengers or freight? Or would it just be able to run on its own to qualify for the record? I've been a railroad buff, particularly steam era since three years old, but never knew the answer. Regardless, very impressive for a 4-4-0, but you can see why, look at the size of the drivers!

@LearnwithJanice Год назад

hello from Kansas🇺🇸

@Ben_not_10 Год назад

What’s interesting to me is over 100 years later a base model Toyota Camry can hit similar speeds

@_Zekken Год назад

"999 was the first to 100mph!" City of truro be like: 🤨 Flying Scotsman who holds the officially verified record be like: 🤨🤨🤨 Anyway, whether or not it actually achieved the record, at least it was enough to preserve the locomotive.

@yeoldeseawitch Год назад

999 definitely didn't reach that speed lol City of Truro MIGHT have, but its still not very likely overall, Im gonna play it safe and say ol scotty was the first

@stevensolway1054 Год назад

When the timers were using ⏱ a stopwatch , or a precision chronograph, the timers were more used to timing race horses 🐎 😀.!!!!!

@chaseman113 Год назад

If those UP coal cars could hit 118+ mph running full dynamics on 2 engines. Side note on coal cars , 118 mph is a software limit on UP equipment and they probably were closer to 150 mph. Made me think about high speed rail a little different lol. Then I believe we had more then a couple 112 plus mph events happen in American Steam. Plus 999’s gots some tall ass drivers and being a relatively light early locomotive may have helped keep rotating mass down in the rods & valve train compared to later HIGH horsepower tall driver locomotives.

@Dallen9 Год назад

..... You know even if they fudged the math abit, the Math indicates the Locomotive went faster. or if you're using the stations as destination reference points for true solidarity of measure then missing a few mile markers on a given trip doesn't matter.

@phillipnigro4384 Год назад

The Japanese cartoon series galaxy railways has a 999 and a Union Pacific Big Boy locomotive called Big One

@andypandy9013 Год назад

The only way that a 4-4-0 could do 100 mph would be straight down a very deep mine shaft. 🤣

@therailfanman2078 3 месяца назад

Another fun fact: the 4-4-0 used in the game red dead redemption 2 is based of nyc 999

@beau4464 Год назад

This or a replica is at the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago it's full size scale

@kylehc15 27 дней назад

i wonder if you took a steam engineer from when the bigboy was produced and took them back in time to when this loco was produced would they feel like this loco was slow or would they be ok with it cause of what they were used to

@buttole Год назад

4:24 what is that a camelback? how about a blurb on that thing, I can't find much about it on my own

@RailroadStreet Год назад

Yes, it is. That is a photo of Philadelphia and Reading Railroad camelback 4-4-0 #373, built in 1882 by the Reading.

@skydive7054 Год назад

i wish it still had it's huge drivers.

@muir8009 Год назад

Funny isn't it: a scant ten years after 999's, the ballistic 130mph kpev run, even though perfectly officially timed, has never garnered quite the recognition it deserves, being overshadowed by Truros run but being an abnormal vehicle wasn't by popular demand, although it's ended up being fairly obviously being closer to foreshadowing the future far more than 999 or truro could've ever dream about. Rather ironic ;)

@hypergolic8468 Год назад

May be the bigger story is, not the speed, but the mobility. 999 was part of a development process that took mileages that would have taken days (potentially weeks) to cover fifty years or so year prior to hours. Whether or not it hit the speeds claimed is not the whole story, regular running at 86 mph+ over long distances, earning revenue is maybe the bigger claim. Not as exciting as speed records, but it pays for what comes after 999.

@wheelie-z7635 Год назад

Since when did that go over 100 mph

@Garrett_Thompson Год назад

It never did. The tractive effort calculations and aerodynamics alone says 999 can't do 100 light engine, let alone 112 with a full consist.

@KibuFox Год назад

One factor to always figure, and is often forgotten when calculating locomotive speeds, is overall driver size. 999 had massive 86 inch drivers. Bigger wheels mean you can reach a higher top speed, but the time you take to get that higher speed could be significantly longer. There's actually a formula that can tell you the theoretical top speed of a wheel. Multiply half the diameter by 2 times pi, then multiply again by the RPM over 60. Using an online calculator, if 999 reached a top speed of 102 mph, then to achieve that it would need to have his drivers reach an rpm of 458.7. Using another formula based on the reported information of piston stroke, and bore, we can get an average piston speed at 102 mph to be 1912 feet per min, or roughly 22 mph speed of the piston itself. Looking at these numbers, 999 would easily have had enough boiler pressure to not only produce the needed piston speed, but also the rpm's needed to break 102 mph. Those numbers, in particular the piston speed with a 24 inch stroke, are well within tolerances of locomotives of the day. The added speed is easily chalked up to the massive drivers, and overall light build of the locomotive and cars it hauled.

@muir8009 Год назад

Pretty universal formula. One could simply add the B&E tanks with their 108 inch drivers...: by that circumference formula they could've gone 150mph. brunels hurricane would've been insane, especially with the stupidly low piston speed of brunels which is a very large factor, just as much as large driving wheels. Bearing capacity plays a large part: Dean's county with its double frames obviously providing a very rigid bearing surface. 999's springing could've been out rightly dangerous. A scant ten years after 999's run for the kpevs 130mph run the train was bouncing so badly it was derailing almost constantly at the immense speed. Obviously the kpev run, even though perfectly officially timed, has never garnered quite the recognition it deserves, being overshadowed by Truros run but being an abnormal vehicle wasn't by popular demand, although it's ended up being fairly obviously being closer to foreshadowing the future far more than 999 or truro could've ever dream about. Rather ironic ;)

@SaintedDemon 10 месяцев назад

Engineer and historian O. S. Nock once said that as a result of the unbalanced reciprocating masses of 999's motion at 112 mph, her driving wheels would have been lifting off the track with each turn. City of Truro looks is a more likely candidate, since her run was timed far more accurately by Charles Rous-Marten, and she was headed downhill at the time. By the time the City of Truro reached Bristol Temple Meads, she scarcely had enough coal in her tender to get to the shed, which normally would not have been the case with her class, indicating an unusually fast run.

@phoenixprime24 Год назад

999’s 86 inch drive wheels make going at 100 mph possible but unlikely because of the small size of her cylinders and her low boiler pressure

@TaG.189 Год назад

What types of Blue the original 999 had because i think She looks Amazing with it 🙂

@RailroadStreet Год назад

It was called "Russia Iron."

@jurassicsmackdown6359 9 месяцев назад

Considering that both 999 and City of Truro are both 4-4-0 passenger engines, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it was both of them who broke 100 Cant really say if it was one or the other, so heck it, i think they both did. Look how similar they are, when British and American are usually starkly different But, at the end of the day, we all know it was good ol Scot who did it officially 😉

@asdatrollys8944 Год назад

I don’t think it’s fair to claim it was the first to break 100mph because there is no solid proof, anyone can claim they did something but actually doing it is a different matter. City of Truro has a claim to it that’s Just as valid and I believe there was also a french loco that had the claim as well… but none of them have concrete evidence so as far as I’m concerned it’s all hearsay and a company lying to sell tickets. The first to 100mph was the flying Scotsman as it’s the only one of the four that we can prove to have hit 100mph. It was the only one to pull a dynamometer car.

@davefrompa5334 Год назад

Milwaukee Road 6402 probably did at least close to the ton a few months before Scotsman. It AVERAGED over 90mph for more than fifty miles, the highest claimed speedometer reading was 103mph.The run was to pave the way for the Hiawatha service. 6402 made better time than a typical run of the Hiawatha. (It's no secret that the Hi's routinely hit 100 or better.)

@SaintedDemon 10 месяцев назад

@@davefrompa5334 There are no surviving documents to support the claim of 6402's speed record, and a significant amount of the supposed "weight" behind the validity of the record comes from an enthusiast with no actual credentials.

@davefrompa5334 10 месяцев назад

@@SaintedDemonOkay, then British top speed claims without a dynamometer are questionable (Princess Elizabeth, Silver Link, Cheltenham Flyer, Coronation Scot, Bristolian) unless you're saying something is "written in stone" just because the British say so. I guess you're going to say that the Hiawatha never exceeded a 100mph, even though it did it on just about every trip, because they didn't save the speedometer tapes, or didn't use a dynamometer on every trip. "from an enthusiast with no actual credentials" Who are you talking about? Me? Who are you? First of all, the 6402's run wasn't some obscure incident, it was a special test run. It was well known and still is, at least among people that know anything about American railroading. I have to laugh at Limeys that accuse Americans of thinking the whole world is America. When it comes to fast steam trains, most Britons think the whole world is Britain (or Europe) Here's a tip - Read a book by BRITISH railway experts that were alive during the steam age, like O.S Nock or Cecil J. Allen. Locomotive Practice and Performance in the Twentieth Century by Allen is a good one. Jonathan Glancey's Giants of Steam is a recent work, but it has a lot of the same information. Then get back to me and tell me how the British wiped the floor with us.

@wkjeeping9053 5 месяцев назад

Why didn't it get restored back with the 86 inch driver and cylinders?

@BotherRed Год назад

I'd just let NYC 999 have it. It doesn't matter, we know other locomotives have done it, she could have done it too.

@bennickss Год назад

Huh, so two of the rumoured 100mph record holders were 4-4-0s

@llad7366 Год назад

you can easily see mile posts at 60 and at 90 mph 112 wouldnt be that much different... There were also multiple timers onboard the trains. she easily could have achived those speeds with her drive wheels and while at a high speed already opening her up with a full head of steam she probably could have gone faster.

@steffenrosmus9177 Год назад

Well the first steamengines going officislly over 100 mph, were from the UK in 1904 and Germany in 1905. So, 1932 is beaten.

@adeerdoes Год назад

Think the opening words for this video summarise it all, a "Story" Sorry America, think the flying Scott beat ya there! Officially authenticated with a ton of data all indicating the same thing.. 161 kph.. or... 100mph!

@davefrompa5334 Год назад

@guyfrances "think Flying Scotsman beat ya there!" Maybe and maybe not. Milwaukee Road 6402 AVERAGED over 90 miles an hour for more than sixty miles running between Chicago and Milwaukee. The highest reported speedometer reading was 103 miles an hour. This was a trial run to pave the way for the streamlined Hiawatha service, the fastest REGULAR SCHEDULED steam train service ever. The run took place in 1934, a few months before Scotsman's record. The 6402 made better overall time than a typical run of the Hiawatha. It's no secret that the Hi's routinely hit 100 mph or better.

@SaintedDemon 10 месяцев назад

@@davefrompa5334 All the major institutions (including the American Smithsonian Institution) accept the Scotsman as the first locomotive to reach 100 mph. If any reasonable doubt about the Scotsman's record ever existed, they would be a lot better known due to the Scotsman's international fame.

@davefrompa5334 10 месяцев назад

@@SaintedDemon It's the first engine to "officially" reach 100mph. I didn't even say the 6402 reached 100 mph, I said it AVERAGED over 90 mph for more than fifty miles, which means there's a strong chance it hit the ton. (You don't need a dynamometer car to figure out average speeds over long distances.) If a British engine turned in a performance like that, you'd never hear the end of it. This was a special test run like I mentioned before, not a random event, so if you don't believe the claimed average speed on one section of the run, then I guess you think the whole Milwaukee Road management are liars. I believe I have a magazine from the time that has a log of the run. Also, Scotsman may have fallen short of the ton. There was a sudden jump from 98mph to 100mph, and possibly back down on the recording scroll, almost as if the recording pen had been bumped. You might want to check out Fastest steam locomotive germansteamlocomotive.com uk. website. It has a record on fast steam train runs including Scotsman and 6402. I'm pretty sure it's by a British author.

@davefrompa5334 10 месяцев назад

@@SaintedDemon Don't quote the Smithsonian as a reputable institution to me.I saw their book "Train-The Definitive History. I think the book is garbage, even if it did get rave reviews from a lot of people that probably don't know much about the subject themselves. I believe the editor was a British car guy that didn't know much about trains, at least not American railroading. It shows. One example - The top speed for the Pennsylvania Railroad K4 Pacific locomotive was given as 70 mph. Those engines routinely ran at scheduled AVERAGE speeds of more than 70. The Detroit Arrow routinely ran the 141 miles between Englewood, Illinois and Ft Wayne, Indianna in 115 minutes. The top speed was routinely 90 mph or better. Sources- The Railway Magazine, Issue 492, June 1938 Giants of Steam Jonathan Glancey Locomotive Practice and Performance in the Twentieth Century Cecil J. Allen (All British Publications) There's also plenty of other good American steam locomotives that should have been mentioned that weren't.

@melmen2379 5 месяцев назад

Could she be brought back to steam?

@barryphillips7327 Год назад

At the time NOTHING else on earth cars motorbikes etc had done over a 100mph City of Turo in Britain early 1900s went over 100 about 102-103 BUT it was Not official so not recognized!! In the UK a dynamometer car was used for an official record.

@toddwebb7521 Год назад

Well I guess it could get a delorean up to 88 mph

@trainstanksandhistory.5721 Год назад

Why not fix it and find out? I mean money but people would pay to see it happen.

@ajorsomething4935 Год назад

Shame that all high speed claims for steam locomotives are dubious at best. Pretty much no steam locomotive had a spedometer, and though I like to believe distance over time is perfectly good, anything that's even slightly doubtable isn't good enough for official records. Even with a 4 second margin of error, a 36 second mile is 100 mph, and a 28 second mile is 128. So unless the railroad just straight up lied I'm confident in saying the loco managed 100. Feel free to say I'm wrong if you think that assessment is unfair.

@jimrudolph1582 Год назад

What speeds were the British locomotives reaching at that time?

@_Zekken Год назад

Similar from what info I can find, the GNR Stirling Single which was an 1870s design had a claimed top speed of 85mph.

@KurtBenning 11 месяцев назад

I believe she could run again if she was restored!

@yankeecornbread8464 6 месяцев назад

Today it’s hard to imagine why anyone would urgently need to travel to Buffalo or Chicago.

@trainfan-ks5hk Год назад

86 I think was the real speed Still impressive for 4-4-0

@JH-qi7fz Год назад

It did hit 112 mph, and it did it without near massive bearing failures like a certain lame duck uk engine...

@thomasgray4188 9 месяцев назад

definitely not 100 let alone 112 but the 86mph calculated is very respectable for the time.

@Engine-blocks Год назад

“On September 14th”

@JRS06 Год назад

I was always convinced City of Truro was the true first engine to go 100mph, or at least Flying Scotsman.

@JohnDavies-cn3ro Год назад

'City of Truro's run down Dainton Bank is debated - though I personally believe it. When she rolled into Bristol Temple Meads, with Moses Clements at the controls, there was barely enough coal left in the tender to get 'on shed'. The rest had been sent up the chimney, and was scattered all the way from Plymouth! I have a feeling another Gresley A1 Pacific (as they were at that time) - was it 'Colarbo'? - may have done a ton before "Flying Scotsman." Perhaps someone can confirm it?

@JohnDavies-cn3ro Год назад

PS The older Dean 7 foot single driver "Duke of Connaught" took the Ocean Mails on from Bristol to Paddington that day, and herself made a fast run, setting a record which remained unbroken for many decades. Never forget, behind all these record breaking runs stood a man, shovelling coal for all he was worth.

@michaelcampin1464 Год назад

@@JohnDavies-cn3ro i understand that one on the LNER A4 was first in UK to exceed 100mph. It was one of the 4 "silver"named locos, ie silver fox, silver king, quicksilver or silver link. But the Flying Scotsman went faster before Mallard set the undisputed record at 126mph

@figodwnnieto2581 Год назад

@@michaelcampin1464 no A3 4472 Flying Scotsman was the first to officially reach 100mph. A4 Silver Link would later set a record of 112.5mph breaking all other UK records before A4 Mallard then broke all global steam locomotive speed records with 126mph.

@scotrailfan170 Год назад

For one thing 999 can't be official there's no true evidence for the record same goes for city of trio frying Scotsman did with dynamometer car paper but this story does sound good

@coreymitchell3900 Год назад

I thought it was flying scottsman was

@pex_the_unalivedrunk6785 Год назад

If I ever win a multi-million dollar lotto jackpot, I'd like to rescue and restore a bunch of old steam locomotives to running condition, build a small railway and housing for them, and open it up to the public. Hey, did anyone win that $900,000,000 Mega Millions jackpot yet on January 6th 2023? I realize I'd lose money on such a venture, but idc... I'd still have some cash leftover to live off of and invest in more profitable endeavors.

@Dr_Reason Год назад

I have timed mile markers at 80 on the highway while driving a car. I think they could time from a train. Still may not have broke 100 though.

@larrydemaar409 Год назад

I remember visiting 999 when it was displayed outside the Museum of Science and Industry along with AT&SF 4-8-4 number 2903 and the U-505. I am glad that it has been moved inside. 2903 is now at the Illinois Railroad Museum. NYC didn’t save any modern steam locomotives although there is one in Elkhart. I believe that 999 went over 100 mph. Railroad watches were very accurate even at that time.