Was This Rider Ripped off? - DOLAN Free Gift Frame 💸 

Thank you. There are some other good vids in the recent uploads that will help. You make great points in what you say. I haven’t commented on the Dolan post yet, as I do t believe the refund has yet been made and we have not seen the new frame yet. Watch this space.

Thank you for your kind words.

Thank you

I would agree with all of that. Something slipped through the net and their response is disappointing. Thanks for the feedback.

That’s where I was coming from. May not have explained as well as I could.

One rule for me, avoid any brand that isn’t willing to sell you a frame on its own. Frames are being used as hangers to sell components, some of which is just landfill quality. The frame should be the part you invest in. There is no education out there about buying a bike frame, and a bike gets a good review if it has an Ultegra Groupset at in unbelievable price.

Thanks Simon. I am really hopeful that the frame in the video is the only one that slipped through the QC net. If it was I suspect Dolan would be all over getting the frame back to them and the issue sorted, I kinda got the impression from their communications that this was a common conversation.

You are right, but is is quite hard to find a brand that makes good Aluminium that they don’t bundle up with the cheaper parts. Cannondale used to really go for it with the CAAD10 and now the CAAD13 is all budget parts. Mason are doing good things. Can’t think of many brands really embracing alu.

Totally agree. Both us, and the customer contacted them with photos and details, but they refused to take any action other than to offer a replacement for £798. A very disappointing reply. I always believe we should give a company the opportunity to rectify before complaining.

They're just selling rebranded open mould frames. Some are excellent quality, others are just rubbish. Clearly they don't care enough to actually inspect and test these frames before they start selling them.

To think he used to supply the British Olympic teams and Chris Boardman....

This seems to be a good summary. 👍

Yours might be ok. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Maybe take a closer look at some of the things we found and see what you find.

@Morgan Rees......Totally agree with your comment Morgan. Firstly, although I have never owned a Dolan frameset - I am pretty familiar with them as I used to ride with a number of pros whose teams used Terry Dolan bikes. [Despite the fact they were often not 'badged up' as Dolan frames it was well-known, that they were his frames]. In addition, we are all well aware of the connection between [Terry] Dolan bikes and Chris Boardman especially, not to mention the likes of Bradley Wiggins and Alex Dowsett et al. However, I am not sure if Terry Dolan himself still owns/runs the company or whether he sold the brand to a larger bike supplier? [Wikipedia does seem to imply the company is still owned by Terry Dolan]. If that is the case - Mr Dolan is making a very serious and highly damaging mistake by underestimating the impact publicity like this will have on his business. In today's extremely competitive and highly comodotised global marketplace, consumers have all the power and their buying decisions are very much influenced by their 'experiences' with companies and their products. Indeed, 'Customer Experience' [CX] is so powerful it has actually transcended price and the product itself! [ie: we will loyally buy a particular company's products over a competitor's products even if the competitor's products are better and cheaper!] It is also why most of the world's most successful companies [and particularly retailers such as Amazon, Wallmart, Zappo, Apple etc] have embraced a 'Customer-centric' business model. As you quite rightly state Morgan, 'Goodwill' is worth a damn sight more than a few extra pounds profit - and is the reason why so many companies today [eg; Ritz-Carlton Hotel Group] set aside up to US$2000 per 'incident' to address situations like this and do their utmost to ensure an extra-ordinary 'customer experience'. This is clearly something the bike industry as a whole has not yet learned.

Thank you.

I dunno looks like they polished it pretty well!

Thank you

Thank you Alan.

That’s a great idea.

Thanks Laurie.

Oh this saga went on a bit. This was just the beginning.

@@Mapdec 😬😬😬

We often do this just to get parts to help customers out. Often ending up in profit. We bought an entire 8k bike on sale just for the cassette. Sold off all the parts and frame before the bill was due. This was mid pandemic though. Not sure I would risk it now.

Sure. The owner was disappointed, felt that had made a poor choice and a bit confused on the best way forward. We know them well and had a great conversation along the lines in this video. He also spoke to Dolan himself and was upset about their response. He was shielding through the pandemic and the bike had very little use. The bike was a fantastic deal with all those parts, and so the work we and Hambini did kind of bought the overall price upto what to expect, rather than the too good to be true price. The world does not need more landfill and so there was a good conscience element to repair something they did enjoy riding.

@@Mapdec that's super cool and the customer is lucky to have found a LBS that is as passionate about cycling as they are customer service. Good on you for taking the required steps to make good from this bad situation. The value offered by a quality LBS can never be underestimated.

Thanks. Dolan refused refund or any help other than selling another frame. That’s a non starter. Stearer tube wasn’t reamed like you would a seat tube, just light sand to allow compression bung to hold. Nothing that wouldn’t usually be done in finishing. This is similar to what bike shops do with cervello steerer tubes. Sand down, epoxy in a shim, fit bung. There is a lot of strength in steerer tubes. Have you ever tried to break one? The kind of work we do is very common, the problem is with D2C brands is they don’t get an additional PDI check by a bike shop. Thanks for the kind words.

@@Mapdec Hmm, like the £5k Giant Defy that I just returned because it came to me with a binding rear brake and was covered in scratches. Rear brake mount was very poorly faced, shop said they could sort it and “had the tool” yet when I collected it they said “we’ve done the best we could and didn’t have a facing tool. This shop has been around for a long time in Lutterworth and sells high end bikes. My experience of PDI is they essentially straighten the bars and put tubeless sealant in, utter shambles letting bikes out the door with any brake system faults. Was about to go the Dolan route again (I have a 2017 Tuono which has been excellent) but now I’m not so sure!

So many bike shops have invested more in stock and websites than their mechanics education and tools. This needs to change asap.

Had a CGR in a few weeks ago that the drive side dropout had rotated backwards. Frightening how small the fasteners are, doesn't help that the coarse thread also makes the axle seize in a bit easier IMO.

Pretty common Cannondale fault that. I have a Short vid in pipeline about it. That tiny sliver of carbon a 2mm screw keeps a frame from being utterly useless.

It was out of the 2 year warranty. Most of the legislation you quote would be obsolete. Plus in that time if the bike had been serviced by a 3rd party you would have to prove they didn't contribute to some or all of the damage.

Thanks Valiant. The fork is an easy fix plenty of material to work with.

@@Mapdec better to have too much than too little it's still shonky AF smh. Will be interesting to see what hidden issues a scan might find.

Yes. I probably assumed that was a given and could of made the point clearer. Essentially they are using their OEM discount from Shimano and Mavic to make money and a low cost frame is just a mechanism to sell those parts. I really think this practise has to stop and Shimano should only supply parts at OEM prices to actual manufacturers, not companies that buy open mould frames from China just to access the Shimano, Mavic etc OEM prices.

@@Mapdec From what I understand from a few years ago when I spent sometime looking around Chinese sites and manufacturers because I was interested in the cycling industry typically open mould frames are better frames with regard strength and quality. You have a stock frame design that is sold by a huge number of importers around the world all feeding back information about the issues of such frames and those type of frames evolve over time with improvements to their design which compared to new designs are often lighter weight and only really tested by the certification process not real world testing. I think it was fuji-ta that I saw that information which is the world's biggest cycle manufacturer. The issue whether an original frame design or open mould is good is surely quality of manufacturing. I've seen some very expensive frames analysed by Hambini, Luescher Technik and a few other youtubers and many have been very poor quality. Open mould frames would typically be a little heavier I think. Planet X used to sell £300 CF frames and forks just before the pandemic. I wonder what their frame and fork quality is like. I saw recently they were doing a set for £399. A very low price in today's UK marketplace although I can't see that continuing with the fall in value of the £.

@@Mapdec Thanks for elaborating on this here - but yeah, I think that VERY valid post should/could have been in the video. And actually, the fact they get OEM prices - and thus increasing profit - mean they have even less of an excuse for using such a shitty frame.

I think I pronounce Bath wrong too. 💁‍♂️

How do you think they ream BB apertures to sizes and shape? All carbon construction requires a lot of shaping and finishing after the mould is removed. It’s just that some factories really skimp on this process and leave it to bike shops to do. In reality this work should have been done by Dolan prior to building on the Components. Or, they will have specified the finishing standard to the factory and used that agreement to claim compensation. Maybe they knew these were substandard and sold them anyway. There is so much carbon material in that steerer tube, massively over engineered. It has to be, because the labour time involved in making it on the limit of weight for purpose would be massive and prohibitive for a budget frame set. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

For sure. We are 2 for 2 on our experience with Dolan, but that’s far from a good sample size. We have another coming in tomorrow.

Yes. That’s a sound option 4. Good frames. Still results in a frame in landfill, it’s arguably about the same weight. Sort of fits between our option 1 and option 2 on price.

@@Mapdec the days of throw away poor quality carbon frames really needs to end. I've switched from two carbon mtbs back to a aluminum enduro and steel hardtail. The next replacment will be to a Ti road bike from carbon, once I can offload it 👌🏻

I wish I had thought to say that in conclusion. Pretty much nails it. 🙏

You might ask what you would trust in that situation? A box fresh bike, or one that has been inspected and any issues put right? It’s a tough one.

Then again, this one has been stripped, inspected and repaired. An off the shelf bike would not get that until it’s first overhaul service. The issues in this video should have been sorted by Dolan before it was shipped. Just because the foreign factory failed, Dolan should have identified and rectified before sale. Argon is a nice brand. I haven’t seen a bad one, yet…

@@Mapdecwell i've just watched the Hambini and your video, and i only would ride it if someone threatned my life if i didn't. Is it possible to safely ride 100k / 1000k on this bike? Probably. Would i ride it down an alpine pass at some Speed? Hell no.

I totally understand. However there is a quantum leap in calling out quality to calling out safety, and there is nothing to suspect safety with the tools available to us. The frame is quite chunky and overbuilt.

It’s a good point.

No reason to stop loving your bike.

@@Mapdec for sure still love my bike! Just not sure about the upgrade to the new model. Will check out some reviews at the time

Fine point. It’s the cheap wheels that scare me more than frames

I think this has been addressed in other comments and follow up vids.

If a price is too good to be true, there is probably a reason. Hard to recommend as quality can change bike to bike. Just need to be a vigilant and observant consumer. Hopefully these videos will help.

Personally I would avoid Ribble. My recent experience with them was appalling, they took my money instantly, they delayed my bike a number of times during which time they continuously offered me upgrades at my expense. Eventually I had to accept the bike in a different colour than that ordered just to get it within 18 months. The bike I eventually received did not ship with the components agreed or what I was expecting. The bike also looked as if my cat had built it. The power button (ebike) rattled as the retaining bolt was too long and bottomed out preventing it from being tightened. The rack was assembled incorrectly and bolts cross threaded, the tyres were flat due to not being seated correctly to name but a few issues. The greatest concern for me was the lack of desire shown to correct these things and ensure customer satisfaction. My advice would be to find a great LBS and mechanic who values and enjoys cycling themselves. A place that values reputation above all.

Independant, Dedicated bike shops 🥳

This is not something I want to touch really. The reason is accountability… when a recognised brand name is present they have accountability and insurance. If you have a horrific accident on that frame, who are you going to sue? These Ali express sellers know that and come and go accordingly. Good luck, stay safe.

Thanks. It’s been discussed before and I could have explained my point better. It’s obvious that Dolan pays significantly less for components. The point I was trying to make is that the profit is being made by using a cheap frame to hang more valuable components from and effectively make profit from the value of the Shimano / Mavic parts. I hope that makes more sense.

And now its been modified if it does snap the warranty isn't going to cover it.

It’s already out of warranty. There is plenty of material, probably too much to compensate for structural issues. This is just attention to detail, time consuming work that wasn’t done. We wouldn’t have done the work if we suspected any safety issue.

That’s a £1250 frame. I have never seen one to comment really.

Not wrong, but I could have explained the point better. In that they are essentially using a cheap frame to enable the retail of Components. Relying on the reputation of Shimano and Mavic to sell the bike.

@@Mapdec agreed

Thanks Mick

Obviously not, but the OEM discount is where we think Dolan are making money, as this frame is just something to hang the parts off.

I think you need to rewatch the video. The cost breakdown is as if the customer wanted to build a bike themselves and collect the parts together. Obviously Dolan pay OEM price. That’s a given. The point, is the profit margin they make is made from essentially retailing the Components by attaching them to a worthless frame.

@@Mapdec You literally pose the question, the economics don't add app how do Dolan do it. You already know, we already know so it's an entirely mute point. As for, I.meant if you built it yourself, that isn't merely mute it's irrelevant and vapid. If you add up the cost to build your own Tedla Model S... the motor(s) is free. Ergo Their motors must be valueless. See how vapid it is? The appalling QC and build quality on tbe frameset speaks for itself, there is absolutely no need to attempt to imply that the frameset must cost Dolan almost nothing. Which is exactly what you do when you posit that the economics for Dolan (they have to pay vat etc) dosn't add up. They do, it's just a rubbish example of a frameset with ridiculous QC from Dolan.

The point I was trying to make was that profit was being made from retailing the more desirable parts than the actual frame.

I doubt we will. The combination with them before the video was very nonchalant. There is nothing in here about safety concerns, it is just quality details. It’s a bit like buying chicken nuggets or a free range bird. What did you expect for the price paid.

Small UK brand with history of track and Crit racing, expanding to audax style bikes. They more recently moved to this style of importing carbon frames

Yes. New, direct from Dolan as the receipt in the video describes.

The crank just had some light running from the riders heel. The BB that came out was spotless. The chainrings hardly used. Also, if crank was worn, it would affect bearings, but the bearing shell would protect against damage to frame. I see what your thinking though.

Might be worth a cleat realignment, it will destroy cranks if not. I had the same issue using my winter boots, rubbing is racing I suppose😂

Aye. We fixed that.

How knows, its always dangerous to negotiate down prices when you are so far removed from the factory. Once those frames are on a container ship and in bound there is little you can do with a container full of fames that you already paid for and just cleared customs.

We have that coming up. You can see a sneak peak in the background.

Hurry up and get it built!

Why? No difference to corrective actions taken at factory, build warehouse or bike shop. This one just slipped through and ended up with the end consumer before it was corrected. Every bike has an element of finishing applied. Mostly by the factory before it heads to paint. Sometimes by the brand in corrective action for identified QC, but too often by the bike shops. That’s why we have facing and reaming tools on site. Forks often come in slight out of round, or with ridges that need filing down. The big deal is that it went through the Dolan QC and build and directly to the rider. The only visible safety implication is that the compression bung doesn’t hold tight. I can almost guarantee your fork will have had a similar treatment, but you would hopefully never know about it.

It’s hard to spot a future classic right now.

@@Mapdec bless you mate. Since I'm no longer a sponsored rider (I'm 54 years young 175 cm / 63kg) I went for a All City Nature Boy SSCX. This is the cheapest frame I've ever ridden, yet she is fabricated to perfection and a real head turner. I'm the frames third owner, its been raced by the last two owners in niche single speed cyclocross races. There is no cyclocross frame made from carbon that can still be HARD raced 11 years down the road that I know about. I'm not here to troll, but it's food for thought.

Sounds like you nailed it. 👍

Most likely

2 grand😮

Thanks for watching the vid 👍

Why would you have confidence in something else? This one has now seen more inspection and had more correction work than most factory fresh frames.

@@Mapdec because you’ve seen such poor workmanship in the frame, that’s the solid of really terrible Layup that just fails ‘just riding along’.

As opposed to a frame checked and repaired by 2 experts with excellent reviews and liability insurance? Interesting risk

I hear you. But I think the only beneficiaries would be the solicitors. Publishing evidence with thoughtful insight should have a larger impact for more riders. Companies need to care about their brand and customers and not just rely on cost and Facebook ads.

If only there was a road bike brand like Brompton. There is some solid reliable engineering!

Hopefully our videos are helping

@@Mapdec just looking through them and trying to find the reasonably priced frame that you mentioned in the video.

We have an excellent Forme Alu bike in the background of this video that will be on the channel soon.

I guess everyone has their budget.

@@Mapdec the budget for a Di2 should be the budget for a frame that isn't crumbling to pieces. something you can't fix btw. the resin penetration of the carbon

For sure. I have a very premium frame upstairs with this problem, I won’t name them because they are taking every step to put right so far. Manufacturing faults happen at every price point.

@@Mapdec hambini has enough about those true. but manufacturing faults is not the issue. QC that let's those faults go through is.

I see your point, and I do agree, but… civil matter, solicitors, county courts, blah blah blah. Not worth the hassle.

Just that it is out of warranty and nothing that can do other than offer another frame at ‘crash replacement’ price. The rider was shielding in the pandemic. It was only ridden a handful of times during the 2 year warranty. You can see in the vid how clean that BB is.

@@Mapdec Surely the owner has a strong case in the small claims court, there is a body of evidence that shows the frame and fork is not of merchantable quality?

I have never seen one close up to comment. Thanks for commenting.

Umm. No, I don’t believe so. Creaky headset, bearing problems, brake rubbing, stuck seatpost, etc. No reason to question safety, if there was we wouldn’t have entertained a repair.

@@Mapdec Fair shout, but I wouldn't feel safe on it anyway (no reflection on you). The fact that brand were happy to ship that out is a disgrace and tells me everything I need to know about them.