You guys understand deamon perfectly..... Anti Hero who loves his family very much.... Discription in the book.. 'Over the centuries, House Targaryen has produced both great men and monsters. Prince Daemon was both. In his day there was not a man so admired, so beloved, and so reviled in all Westeros. He was made of light and darkness in equal parts. To some he was a hero, to others the blackest of villains.' And Gorge rr Martin's favourite Targaryen 😌
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 now..... U are in extreme minorities if u think this .... Which is wild and this quote from the book... In the books he involved in the killing of lenor, ser harwin and some other spoiler shit.... I don't know what he did to reach such a high spot in your ranking 😏 he is good... No, is he bad ...No He is a gray character that's why most fan fav and interesting character to watch on the show
@@shaan4110 (Spoilers) You keep mentioning the books in which yes he’s a gray character in the show on the other hand he’s way less gray he’s more like evil with a few redeemable qualities he kills his first wife grooms his niece and physically abuses her neglects his daughter without a dragon he also never really liked his second wife all that much hes my favourite character but if you think he’s nice then you’re smoking something even in the book he’s not nice he’s just grey af the only thing that redeems him in the book is his love for his daughters and his brother he cheats on rhaynera with multiple women blood and cheese he’s said to take extra joy chopping limbs off his enemies in battle and I’m not in the extreme minority I love him but most people don’t think he’s a nice guy lol he’s done the worst stuff in the show except larys strong name more evil characters than him in the show and actually say why give me stuff they’ve actually done no one list of bad shit compares to daemons and if you think he’s nice you’re gonna complain they ruined him when u see blood and cheese u honestly will
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 that's ware we differ because in the book it's well flushed out but in the show it's rushed because of the time jump..... Now you are interpreting that he doesn't liked his second wife and all that... I am not interpreting i watched interview to fill the gaps he loved his second wife not as much as nyra and loves his daughters creators say's.... now is he good father, husband or brother is debatable but dose he loves them is undebatable..... In conclusion don't interpret just watch creators interview and etc..... And i am waiting for blood and cheese😏....... Every thing he has done is either a consequence of something or out of love for his family Eg.. killing his wife.... dark stuff ...he asked his brother for having 2 wifes he refused ....same fate would have been of lenor but he was gay but he had to leave the fuking continent u see how it works in westros now ..... Another eg.... He was denoted From being the heir so he went rouge and battle in the step stones etc... His action is not pre planned like Otto or larys etc .... Thts why gray and realistic and.... incomparable to these people 😌 Blood and cheese motivation luke death... You see😊🙂
@@shaan4110 I don’t need to listen to interviews to see what happens rhaynera literally asks him if he loved laena and he said in my own sort of way which is like a no basically he doesn’t love rhaynera either he loves the idea of rhaynera as in he believes she can help him restore the Targaryen dynasty to its former glory but he doesn’t love her as an individual that’s not an interpretation he uses everyone around him in the show and kills his wife Idc what interviews say that’s what’s portrayed in the show and there’s no scenes in the show that portray him loving anyone but his brother and himself
@@fuzzy__dunlop I thought the ending was goofy as hell. The ''battle'' made no sense and was literally only there to make Daemon out to be some superhero. I have no problem with them focusing on Daemon and making him look cool, but at least don't sacrifice the realism and good writing to do it. I don't know, the episode was fine, but I haven't enjoyed a battle in the series since like season 5 of Game of Thrones.
@@Al-ji4gd what was unrealistic about it? If you’re talking in terms of battle, then yeah maybe daemon taking out a dozen guys by himself unscathed is a tad unrealistic but it’s possible, same goes for the dodging of arrows up until the point he got hit, with projectiles it’s all up to chance, somebody may get hit by a stray bullet or in this case an arrow and some may never get hit until their luck runs out which it showed in this episode.
@@Randomyoutubecommenter Yeah, the battle mainly. I don't mind there being a battle like this, I wanted something really cool too, that made Daemon look badass. I just didn't like the way it was done. I feel like the director, Sapochnik, loves his spectacles but there's not much thought that goes into the actual details. He did Battle of the Bastards and The Long Night, and I hated those episodes, too.
23:07 King Viserys is only 4-5 years older than his DAEMON. He's probably 35 In this Episode. Remember that. The reason he's looking weak & older is different.
@@janeathome6643 Nope, viserys was always an ugly guy, and he was weak minded, he gets stressed easily, it makes sense he looks like a 60 year old already
Matt Smith doesn't utter a word but absolutely owns this episode in the battle at the end!! My man dragging half the Crabfeeders body out of the cave!! Don't know if you realised it but the Crabfeeders mask was the same as the Sons of the Harpy and he also had greyscale, you can see him gradually getting worse with every episode!!
The boar I think was meant to symbolize baby Aegon. Earlier in the episode Rhaenyra points out that she doesn't like hunting because boars scream like babies when you put them down. If you pay close attention when she's stabbing it, the boar does sound like a crying baby. It's very fucked up, but I guess it's accurate. Rhaenyra doesn't want her brother dead, but he is meant to replace her as heir, and is the living reminder that she did lost her best friend to her father.
How has Alicent been shady? Her father told her to approach the king. Her king told her to keep their meetings secret from Rhaenrya. She's a teenaged girl in an impossible situation. She's doing her best to do her duty.
Her king didn’t say not to say he asked if she had. Big difference. She sucks more down the road I’ll give you that but even from the start she is kinda shady. Just gets way worse.
@@GlennShook "you haven't told Rhaenyra about our talks, have you? I fear she wouldn't understand them" is very much him telling her not to tell Rhaenyra? the subtext of what he's saying is equally as important as the literal words being said.
Yeah I was extremely disturbed by their victim-blaming of an innocent young girl who was emotionally and sexually abused. I stopped watching at that point.
I’m sorry but her father can’t order her to do anything she made a decision to do what her father said cuz she wanted to do it. Show me where Viserys ordered her to seduce him and to make him pick her as his wife cu none of that happened again Otto can’t order her to do ish.
I am so ecstatic that you guys are watching this show and enjoying it!! Was really hoping y'all would do this series! Loved watching all of Game of Thrones with you two and so ready for the full reaction to House of the Dragon! Love me some Dan and Addy!
The stag is the "king of the forest" and it's a sacrifice. Viserys knows the symbolism and that he is the stag, the sacrifice, tied up and pulled every which way, his life and happiness forfeit the day he became King; his late wife and his children hostages to fortune. All these other people lusting for the Throne refuse to see. Also, Viserys isn't old; he's in his forties but he's severely ill and it's aging and debilitating him prematurely.
I do think you're being way too harsh on Alicent. In this society, girls wouldn't be able to just 'say no' to their father ordering them to do something. An unmarried girl was directly under the control of her father, whatever he ordered her to do, she would have to do no matter what she felt or wanted. I think it's clear from her tearing up her nails (a clear symptom of anxiety) that she didn't *want* to be pushed at Viserys (a much older man and her best friend's father no less), but it's what Otto wanted so she had to do it. She was genuinely just trying to be nice to him and 'scheming to screw her friend's dad/become queen' isn't some grand plot she concocted. Also, like Dan mentioned, it's not like she had a choice in marrying the king when he decided to marry her. In that society, the king says he's going to marry you, you marry him. End of story.
Deamon's scene is so good in that it tells you about him, he would rather risk/sacrifice his own life than accept help and admit his own loss and error and the second is that he is willing to win at any cost even by deceit and does not care about honor as long as it gives him victory.
The fact that they were still fighting in the Stepstones after 3 years shows that Rhaenyra was wrong (and she and Daemon and Corlys were thinking emotionally) when she told her father to send the dragons. Clearly, that wasn't enough. And Corlys and Daemon starting their own illegal war shut down the diplomatic channels that the Crown was pursuing as a first option before committing to war. Even now, if they win, the Free Cities are going to be pissed against the Crown and Westeros. And, as you will see, that wasn't the only bad judgment shown by her that day.
Viserys literally tells daemon the realm owes him a great debt for stopping the crab feeder lol he want being emotional like you saying it was a legit problem that needed to be solved because like corlys said driftmark would take a huge hit. Also more dragon woulda helped for sure and the men that came with them so it wasn’t wrong at all viserys just weak and didn’t want to fight
HIs dream is in service to the realm and the realm's future. Targaryen dreamers are real in this worldThe dream isn't personal, it's prophetic and it's tied to his knowledge of the end of man and from Aegon's prophecy (Winter is coming). And he cut himself twice on the Throne. He has leprosy per the showrunners. If the Throne actually rejects the "bad" kings, there were plenty of bad kings who somehow weren't rejected. In the books, this theory is described as a superstition of some Westerosi, which means it shouldn't be taken as credible.
It wasn't Alicent's fault that Viserys chose her. If anything, blame Otto for using her to comfort the king when he was vulnerable. Plus I'm sure she couldn't say no cause she is powerless
You guys have such childish take on Alicent. Do you guys really think it was upto Alicent to decide who to marry. Otto would her literally disowned her if she had screwed his plan by telling rhenyra about her and viserys.
I think you are both forgetting that her father probably forbade her to speak about her reunions with the king, and the the King HIMSELF told her not to say anything to Rhaenyra... You are viewing this from a far too progressive POV; women, specially young girls at that time, do what the men in their lives tell them or more times then not there are grave consequences for disobeying... Saying that Alicent should've just told Rhaenyra against her father's wishes or against her king's wishes is just not realizing the context of the show; let's imagine she does say something to Rhaenyra, what's the FIRST THING Rhaenyra would do? Go and yell at her father or/and to Otto, basically outing that Alicent told her despite their wishes... What do you think would happen to Alicent? We can give Viserys the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't really do anything to her, but Otto? He would for sure punish her for opening her mouth. The show is highlighting the differences between Rhaenyra's position and circumstances VS Alicent's... Rhaenyra gets to do whatever she wants and face no consequences for her actions because of the privileged position she holds; it spoils her and makes her think she is above others and that she is untouchable, that's why she gets away with doing stuff and that's why in the hypothetical case that Alicent would've told her and Rhaenyra would've went straight to her father and blow up the entire situation, she would've come out of that situation without harm of trouble, while Alicent would've paid the price
Right? And I think Alicent and other girls at the time were always aware that they could get pawned of married to someone who could potentially be far worse or far away from her life as she knows it.
I gotta say im surprised how angry you guys are at Alicent she is also a child who is manipulated by her father to push his own political gain. Clearly terrified to go against her father.
Yeah and regardless would have maybe been seen as treason and then cost her fathers job and given the high towers a bad reputation ESPECIALLY since it was done right after the Queens death. She can’t just up right and say it, she’s back into a corner
I mean 2 things can be true at once. You can acknowledge the fact that she is a victim to her fathers scheming/ sympathize with her whilst calling her out on being a fake friend. She could have told Rhaenyra about meeting up with her father for 6 months!! She instead talked to her about how her father might be getting a new wife (knowing that it could possible be her) and consoled her on the loss of her mother- all while keeping this secret from her. She also let her find out in a small council meeting in front of everyone. So what Alicent did was also fucked up!
Girl you seem to have forgotten that King's Guard take a vow to never marry, to never have children, and to give up their family name, and inherentence. Laenor is older than his sister, and she was 12 when met her.
Grayscale infested blood all over Daemon Targaryen. May this confirm at the very least that some Targaryen's are immune to Grayscale? Perhaps other skin diseases other than Leperasy. Leperasy is what King Viserys I has. I don't understand but for the sake of arguing and cementing a headache, I will file this under: "suspicion of disbelief" file and roll with it.
i think it's interesting to see your guys' reactions from the perspectives of both a book reader and someone who is oblivious to how the story of this show is gonna end, so personally i feel like you should keep it this way
HOTD is confirmed that it would be 4 seasons, y’all should watch Vikings, The Last Kingdom, Rome, The Tudors, Gladiator, Kingdom Of Heaven (Director’s Cut), The Last Duel, and Stranger Things after y’all finish House Of The Dragon, and also I can’t wait for y’all to watch Revenge Of The Sith and 2 more movies of Harry Potter
I get the suspicion of Alicent. Personally I pity her. Like most of the women in this universe, she’s just a pawn to be sold off to further her families position. Her story is terribly sad. She hates everything about her life. She’s a prisoner who was forced to marry her friends father by the command of her own father. And she was also commanded to “seduce” the king by her father. You forget that women have basically no rights in this world.
One of my top favorite episodes. Love the character development, the slow buildup, the comparison of both Rhaenyra and Daemon getting covered in blood, and of course Viserys' acting. I got chills when the white hart showed itself to Rhaenerya!
The first season is, so to speak, the prologue. Hence the time jumps. There won't be any more after Season 1. And again Alicent has no word to say when her father decides that she should seduce the king. And the king also indirectly gave her the order that she was not allowed to talk to Rhaenyra about her meetings. So what in the world can she do? Nothing. She, like every other child on the show, is the victim of her parents and circumstances. Alicent does her duty, because she does not yet have a self-determined life. The king, on the other hand, makes one politically stupid decision after another, and without Alicent it would have been one more. And even this one correct decision was not worth much in the end, since Deamon ended the war himself. Leaving Rhaenyra to choose her partner is also politically wrong. He does not act in the interest of the realm, only out of personal interest. That's why the throne punishes him with cuts. He does not serve the realm and his people. How incapable he is is metaphorically shown by deer hunting. Not that he does not hunt himself, no king does, but that he needs two attempts to kill the deer. He is a good man but a bad king. In principle, his hand Otto rules and manipulates and he pursues his own goals, as Deamon said before he was banished by the King. This is also due to Otto's way of reporting things.
@@light5869 The king has made her understand that he does not want that and the king's wishes are command. This has been clearly communicated. Apparently not clear enough for you. If, on the other hand, she tells Rhaenyra she would upset the king and reduces her chances of getting married. Which would also upset her father. You are welcome to swim through the series like a blind fish and bend the plot to your one-sided view as you need. Others don't and remain open-minded. We all know how Allicent becomes later, also through the influence of her father and little finger 2.0, but in the end she really makes these decisions herself.
@@TomTomson81 I'm not on either side here but if you're referring to the conversation the king had with Alicent in episode two, remember that six months had passed and it was treated as though that was the first time the king had brought up the idea of Alicent sharing their talks with Rhaenyra. Which means she had six months where she *wasn't* forbidden, by implication or otherwise, to talk to Rhaenyra.
@@pollin522 EXACTLY!!! The King asked her “ have you been telling Rhaenyra about our talks” to which she responded “no” and he said “ good because I fear she wouldn’t be able to understand”!! Which means that she took it upon herself to keep it from her friend for 6 months! Even Viserys thought that she might have told Nyra! So nobody ordered her to keep it a secret.
@@shayy1724 Of course, this is an indirect wish. This is called reading between the lines. Formulate sentences in such a way that a command is not required. Because as Viserys is, he does not like to make decisions and does not like to command. If he wanted to leave it in Alicent's hands, this conversation would not have been necessary. He wanted to make sure Alicent didn't say anything out of his fear Rhaenyra wouldn't understand. Avoid quarrels, discussions, decisions. That's his character. That was the whole point of the conversation, which he also opened out of nowhere. And until the wedding, it was just conversations. She also didn't know if she would get married. She also doesn't want to lose her friend. That hurts her. So if it doesn't work out with a wedding, she still has her friend and she doesn't need to know that. Alicent doesn't want that herself at the time. She would be fine if Rhaenyra becomes queen. Which she also told her father. Who then manipulates again.
It’s more of a beginning of the end for them, as opposed to the end. They continued to reign all the way to just before the events of GoT when Dany’a dad was overthrown by Robert. I don’t think the show is gonna run for 15 seasons and cover every Targaryen king. They’re just gonna show you how all the dragons ended up dying. Which isn’t a spoiler because in GoT they were all believed to have been dead for 150 years.
Queen Alicent has as much if a choice in marrying the King as much as Sansa had in both her marriages. As much as you want it this show to be a modern take of feminism and both stories are somewhat feminist this is a man's world where girls and women are political pawns to be married off.
I get what you're saying about reading books from movies or shows that you've seen already, Dan. I'm the same way when I reread the Harry Potter series. I always imagine the characters in the book as the actors who have portrayed them.
I just got my husband to start GOT, and he hunts. I know it will be a while before we finish that and get to this scene, but I can't wait to ask his opinion. Obviously he hunts the correct way, he tracks the animal and then processes it himself. We use the meat either for ourselves or give it to our dogs (deer fat isn't a good flavor, so if we can't separate the meat from the fat easily the dogs get it, and they LOVE it). He's very humane, he always makes sure he can get a good clean shot that drops the animal instantly. Not only should the animal not suffer, but it tastes better. An animal like the one in this episode (yes I know it's CGI, bare with me) would be terrified and his adrenaline would be pumping, which would result in less than stellar tasting meat. I honestly don't know why this was a thing back in the day. Not only would the meat taste off, but the king/lord would look weak since he can't hunt his own prey! So I want to ask my husband about this scene.
I think you may be missing the point a little. In this case the hunt is more a symbolic than a practical thing. The stag is tethered so a kill on the day is guaranteed.
Awesome y'all got it, Daemon didn't wish for help because then it looks like a Viserys victory not a Daemon victory. I think it was top 3 battles in the GOT tv world. 3. Battle of Bastards, 2.) Stepstones battle & Then the Dany v Jamie fight 1 for me. The only thing I've ever seen pointed out that sounds bad at first is how the Crabfeeder sending all his troops for Daemon was dumb. And that he didn't have guards watching for the others. But they set up that a bait of flesh would lure him out. We see his archers watching Daemon & we only see archers on that main hillside so they're likely all his watchers. Could also be said that Corlys killed the watchers on his side before they raised alarm. But most importantly Crabfeeder has Grayscale. He had it last ep & we've skipped 3 years since then so the illness has obviously progressed. And it's on his face/head not his arm like it was on Jorah. Grayscale reduces the infected persons mental abilities. Stonemen are literally monsters with low intellect. The illness effecting his mind along with the glory & praise he'd receive for killing THE Prince Daemon Targarayn fogged his mind & he made errors. I loved this episode, def top 3 of the season. Great reaction
Addie, DOLL love your top! Ok, on the book reading. I didn’t read until after s5 when Jon died. And I was surprised that it’s it’s own thing, and so much was cut out for the shoe. So many more characters and plots. A whole books of material cut. I find myself seeing it separate than the show. You’ll gain so much more love for the world if you read them. 💗💗💗
Rhaenyra don’t love criston and she can’t marry a kingsguard lol love what you guys said about daemon btw all the things you said except I do think he cares about his legacy just not the throne like people think.
He’s not that old it’s leprosy basically. Falling apart and weakening him yes he’s daemon older brother but he’s in his prime they aren’t that far apart.
I mean ur sorta blaming a 15 yo girl for being married to Viserys. It's her dads fault and Viserys for picking her. There's no blame on her imo she's a kid
I don’t think they’re necessarily blaming her for following her dads decisions because she didn’t have much of a choice- they’re mostly blaming her for not telling Rhaenyra she was talking/dating her father for six months behind her back. She could’ve told her but she decided not to because she knew it would upset Rhaenyra. Instead she let her find out in a council meeting which is fucked up considering that she was consoling Nyra on the loss of her mother and trying to get her open to the idea of her father having a new wife, when in reality that was her.
@@shayy1724 Dude she's 15 . You think 15 year olds would do anything smart at that situation ? Even adults are afraid of disappointing their fathers and friends
@@SuperARCANGEL0 I think that if I’m 15 (which I was 3 yrs ago) and my dad sent me to go on a date with my best friends father, that I would tell her immediately the next day! I also think that if it horrified me that much I would go to my best friend ( the princess and heir to the throne) and tell her to help me do something to stop it. Alicent did neither of these things. 2 things can be true at once- you can acknowledge that she is a victim/ sympathize with her, which I do, and also be able to call her out when she’s being a bad friend. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
There's some absolutely incredible acting in this show. Utterly outstanding. Truly the creme of the crop. I have yet to see an actual weak actor. Every episode is a solid movie.
Really hope to see Blackfyre rebellion, or maybe even a season or two on Aegon the unworthy to set it up. Honestly I might be one of the few that think an Aegon's Conquest series is a bad idea. Simply because I think there's a point where we need to draw the line and leave some characters and stories to legend within the world of westeros. Like seeing an actor play Aegon the Conquerer and seeing how he became the ruler of westeros I feel will rob that character of some of his mythic qualities. It's a little like them making a series about the first long night, like why? We don't need to see that, part of what makes the concept so special is that it's left in the fog of history.
But you have to understand that books and show are two very different stories. And characters are only characters in name only. Example Queen Cersei in the books and Queen Cersei in the show are two very different characters.
Let’s go! Show only gets better somehow. Moral of story don’t offer daemon help lol So pissed I heard it’s gonna be 2024 before we get 2nd season. 🤬🤬😖😖😡🤣🤣
It's so interesting you guys take the view that Viserys loses his right to declare his own heir after having more children. For me the king's word is the law, especially when it comes to his own family's succession. Noble families very often have multiple children - "an heir and a spare" is regarded as a safer bet than having just one child. For the main heir, the question is whether you favour the first child or the first male child; Viserys, in his absolute authority as king, has decided to defy tradition and choose a female heir and I don't think anyone else has the right to force him to change his mind, especially after swearing to her (although that won't stop them from trying).
Cersei never thrived the realm was falling to shit, she had to borrow from the Iron Bank, had all her foes been dead she'd have still been off the thrown as the realm fell into chaos as she rewarded worshippers and not able rulers.
I'm not reading another word of GoT until he finishes the series, because it takes so long between books that I had to reread previous books to remember what happened previously. Also, they mention in the show that the white stag is the symbol of royalty, and it showing itself is an omen that Aegon is the true heir, but it shows itself to Rhaenerya which I take as a sign that she is the true heir.
The "You're fucking my dad" sentiment is so fucking petty for this setting. Stop trying to insert modern western culture sensitivities into Westerosi culture. I'm not saying Rhaenyra shouldn't be upset, but you shouldn't be upset for her. Nobody had a choice in the whole scenario.
Interestingly enough, she *could* have said no. Depending on how good or evil the father is, and how many alternatives there are, she could have said no. For example, Lady Olenna Redwyne (you remember her as Olenna Tyrell, the Queen of Thorns, Loras and Margaery's grandmother) said no to the man she'd been betrothed to (a Targaryen, btw) and married Luthor Tyrell instead. However, at this point in time, Alicent's pretty much willing to go with whatever her father says, so it's a bit of a moot point. She knows where her bread is buttered. She could go on to marry some random lord, OR she could marry the king. Of course she agreed to marry the king.
Well remember that GOT worked out because of his commitment to the dream. If Danny wasn’t where she was the realm would have fallen. And it seems like no one has mentioned that his dagger is the one Arya uses to kill the night king.
