Hey Team, Check out this fellow RU-vidr and his channel. He reached out to me about a hydraulic wave maker is absolutely amazing. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IJ3z39LXtrA.html His channel is ru-vid.com/show-UCdDJdhQj3O9gNPdqZdZxdwQ
RU-vid randomly recommended me the video you did back in November about how the wave pool works. And now here I am subscribed and watching more. Funny how the algorithm works.
4:24 That's actually incorrect. As the pressure side of the blower (or pump in case of a liquid) get more pressure, the amperage of the motor actually goes down. This is because it is easier for the motor to turn the blower or impeller in it's own liquid or air rather than displacing it. A simple example for people who don't understand what I'm referring to is this: fire up your vacuum cleaner (which is just a blower in reverse) and cover the vacuum pipe with your hand. You'll hear the motor spinning faster. Now this might look like it needs more power, but in fact what's happening is that the motor turns more easily and therefore reaches a higher rpm. If you connect the vacuum cleaner to a power-meter, you'll notice the amperage (or watts) will reduce once you block the vacuum pipe. The same applies to industrial blowers and pumps. I've been working in a large chemical plant for over 8 years and I've seen the same thing on small pumps as well as on 750KW and 6000volts (!) pumps. Ps: this only applies to centrifugal pumps and blowers.
@ThePoolGuy - Looking at those soft starters they appear to be made by ABB and have the fault circuit hooked back up to the PLC, so it should be able to monitor for motor status, when set RPM is reached, or for faults. If it works like other variable frequency drive products in the situation that Auto Addiction presents the loss of the pressure side should trip a VFD on overspeed if the controller can't adjust the ramp down fast enough to keep the motor in name plate specs. Which looking at the wiring there should also lead to the PLC being alerted by way of a contact that one of the starters is faulted and some logic for a safe orderly shutdown to back it up.
I have always wondered how a wave pool works and you have described this beautifully looking forward to further videos. Thanks for your time in making these.
you say if you block the airflow the amperage goes up and trips the breakers. this is not true if you block the airflow into the blower or reduce the output to 0, the amperage will drop. this is because there is no airflow if you let there be an airflow you will get current. and more airflow = more current.
That's true and is a counter-intuitive concept that confuses a lot of people. Same with blocking your vacuum cleaner. It sounds like the motor is working harder because it spins faster, but it actually uses less power because less air is moving. Important concept is that the motors will shut down if they pull too much current for any reason.
Although it may be from something else, this is what we have experienced. The system may actually have some parameter that I don't recognize to shut the fans down after an anomaly.
The swimming arena AdO in my hometown (Bergen, Norway) had an open day some time ago and I got to go on a guided tour of the various facilties under the pools (at least I think it was), used to keep the swimming pools running. I was also shown the valves for a kind of air cushioning system used to release a lot of bubbles into the water to help cushion divers who were practicing. I didn't know such a system even existed, so it was really fascinating.
Great video. Love the detail. I'd recomend LOTO. Lock out your main switch as far back as necessary instead of switching of in multiple places. No chance of any accidental energisation then 👍
100% totally agree. I didn't have a breaker locker for the large breaker at the moment. Plus I had shut off the transformer prior. Did this for dramatics so to speak. But yes, LOTO all day
Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to replace those PVC air lines you’re using for compressed air with metal. OSHA loves fining for PCV compressed air lines. (For good reason though!) When used with compressed gasses, aged PVC has a tendency to turn into shrapnel when it breaks.
Very good explanation. Seeing a electric layout and explaining what communicates to what, makes it sound easy how it all works. Its just when you get to the coding part is where it all gets confusing for me.
That was probably all set up at the factory or programmed by the manufacturer/installer, with instructions provided on how to change the important parameters like the motor start up delay the pool guy is talking about. "Tech support" for a system like this is orders of magnitude different than the regular awful support we all expect to receive for consumer products. For a serious re-configuration, they can probably get someone from the company to come out to the site to troubleshoot and work with the water park staff. And that PLC looks like a standard piece of hardware that could be used for all kinds of different applications. I have never used something like that, but assume the operation and configuration is well documented.
@@MittyNuke1 it can also be internal staff what is making the plc program I work at mondo verde in landgraaf the netherlands I made the electric systems for the flume ride and also programmed the system (Siemens s7-1500 failsafe system). And I am currently working at a system for a waterslide currently still working on the schematics but it will have 3 motors 30kw only slides and spray And 2 times 7.5kw only filtering So a total power of 105kw or around 180 amps at 400v. And yes I am working at mondo verde an no external personal is hired for building this structure, only for concrete or sand a contractor is hired to get it to the place. if it's there we also do everything else to finish it and make it look nice.
@@philipboy88 Thanks for sharing -- I do not work in this industry so it is interesting to hear how different places work. I assumed it was an outside contractor who did the programming of the PLC on this video because The Pool Guy mentioned that the system was "Commercial Off The Shelf" implying it was purchased as a pre-designed/assembled unit. But I do not know if this is the case.
Hey Yall, great responses to this question already. Although my assistant and myself have some basic knowledge on PLCs and ladder logic, we leave this kind of programming to the manufacturer of the wave maker system. Low voltage stuff, sure, we will mess with. But for controlling high voltage stuff, nah, not our lane.
Breakers are sized inappropriately if they are tripping on "acceleration" at 10 seconds. Usually the drives have a spec on breakers in the annex. If those are 75 hp motors those drives look mighty small! Also fans only do work when moving air. If you block the input or output the motor will unload and current will decrease and the motor will run at full rpm. Almost in an idle state. Super cool and simple setup, I do automation controls, programming, and systems designs for large Heat Treating Furnaces! I enjoy your videos as it is satisfying my childhood curiosity to how the infrastructure of commercial pools works.
Figured out that the soft starter was failing, and causing the issue. I'm also sending in the breaker to be inspected just in case. The motor was megged and was all good. Thanks for the info about shutting off flow. I'll admit I dont know everything, but I try and learn as much as possible every day.
Very nice Videos, great to have one posting these kinds of things. But you got something wrong here, the fan will pull less amps when the intake is blocked. Since it is a fan and not a compressor it will pull the maximum power at maximum flow(=zero pressure). And the minimum power at the maximum pressure(=zero flow). Long startup ramps might lead to more heating of the motor even if the breakers will hold.
Oh nice a transformer in there. That is first thing my eyes went to is the transformer as that is what most pinball machines run off of except the new ones now do not. I work on mainly 70s, 80s, and 90s pins and they have that beefy of a transformer in them even some have two in them making it really hard to lift up the board they are on. I need a new transformer for my Star Trek Data East pin as it gives a loud buzzing and pops the power junction boxes 8amp fuse.
Is that Controllogix? That’s like asking Marvin from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy to calculate your tip. It the insurance’s fault requiring a SIL rated PLC. Although Siemens are half the price but you gotta stick with what you know.
Awesome vid! How do these systems compare to older legacy systems say from the 80s or 90s? My local water park has gone through several owners so I’m not sure how much upgrading has been done to the wave pool since they opened in then early 80s. I have noticed a drastic decrease in wave strength in the past 2-3 years. I asked a lifeguard and he said they had indeed adjusted the wave patterns to be more gentle because of so many inexperienced swimmers in the wave pool. They also added a huge red line in the pool with signs instructing weak swimmers to stay behind the red line. Kind of funny to watch a huge pool full of people scream and rush towards the shallow end when the waves start!
As for legacy, this type of wave system has been in use since the beginning. Easy to operate, and doesn't require massive hydraulic pistons. So its all about the wave pattern with these. The patterns all range in depth and frequency. Picking one that works with the pool depth and size is critical to provide a safe yet exciting wave. One wave might not be too deep but its frequency of wave makes it hard for shorter swimmers to get their feet back under them. Some patterns create undertows.
I would love to see what goes on inside the wave chambers when the machines are running ... but i guess you would have to have a camera mounted at the top so people could see the water being pushed up and down .... also iv never been at the bottom of a slide when its first turned on ... that would be cool
@@thepoolguy It might be easier to mount it to the scoop and have it looking down at the water. You will need lighting in there as they are darkish inside there.
That's why he's clearly taken the time to learn how the system works, and/or has been trained by the company that built the system as to the proper setup and operation. You *should* be scared if you don't know how it works, that's pretty smart! I would be scared to drive a race car but a professional race car driver who knows what they are doing, probably isn't. But this system is clearly designed with many safety features.
Matt has the right idea. Once you feel comfortable with what you're working with, it should come natural. I equate electricity flow with water flow through pipes. Look where the water is flowing from and where is it going too. What's a valve, what's a restrictor, what's a reducer... ?
Hi mate, Love the videos. Just wanted to know how you actually power up these motors? Do you have a switch on the outside of the electric box and where does it connect?
Awwwww I wanted you to start the wave maker without water then it would be a air wave maker 😂! I'm joking of course. But just curious what would happen if did that?!
@@thepoolguy I wanted Letchworth to do that when they drained the pool but they said it might break the wave machine. That would be interesting to see if you ever did that.
When you say never test the system with no water in the pool, is that common knowledge in the field or did you learn that from experience? What would happen if it was tested without water, would it possibly lead to a catastrophic failure?
So, I havnt tested it, cause I really don't know what would happen. Might be nothing, might be catastrophic failure. This is too important to leave up to chance... my pro opinion
and for the airchaber fences use chemical anchor from fischer and use these 050567 also from fischer and use these 033211 the chemical anchor if this does not hold nothing wil hold
Why not a stainless steel enclosure? Seems like a no brainer considering the environment it is going to be in. Also you can adjust more then just ramp time to help with the inrush. Should be able to tune the whole starting curve. We use same series of ABB soft starts to run some 400A 480v hydraulic pumps.
I agree, SS would have been much better. The enclosure was purchased before I came on board. The box was supposed to be in a controlled environment, value engineering nixed that. My knowledge of these soft starters is very basic. Do you have resources that may be helpful. I would be grateful to get help with inrush tuning.
They may be out of service but please remove the pig tails from 2 even if it's out of service trust me things can happen. If it's going back in service then save them you're not out anything. Just saves on a cross circuit.
4:10 this is not true. If you put your hand in front of the blower (either side) you will reduce the mass flow of air through the pump. This will reduce torque loading on the motor, allowing the speed of the motor to increase, which causes the current the motor draws to go down. It's counter-intuitive at first but makes sense when you think about it; in a motor you calculate the current by the offset between the RPM (phase in the case of synchronous motors) of the rotor, and the frequency of the driving voltage. When the motor is spinning it starts working more like a generator and creates back-EMF, a voltage. The faster the motor spins, the higher the back-EMF. This voltage resists the voltage of the power supply, so the faster the motor spins the smaller the difference between driving voltage and motor voltage. If the shaft is moving slower (behind) the driving frequency, the motor draws current, until the point where they spin at the same speed; then the motor is producing zero torque and neither drawing nor consuming current. When you continue to drive the shaft even faster, you invert the flow of current, the motor starts working as a generator and the flow of current reverses, it's now a generator. This is also why the motor draws more current when starting; the driving frequency will be higher than the shaft speed.
I love this shit. Inwas actually terrified nownim interested, had bad dreams of the wave pool when I was a kid. Mmm k thats the voice of someone who knows their shit. Okay? :)
