This was a difficult shootout to do as the ideal amount of saturation is so subjective. But you pulled it off, and I appreciate it. Thanks for including so many great contenders!
I love the way you make your videos. I enjoy the sound and your subjective experience of it all a lot. I knew one other person who set up his videos like this but he stopped making videos. great mic , great voice, great effects, and experience
@@luvitluvitbaby Thank you! I appreciate the kind words and the sub! I've had a few of the ASMR comments roll since I started the channel up. I had no clue that would happen. It's been a pleasant surprise! Cheers.
Since the BB Tubes came out this is exactly the shootout I was looking for. I have listened to BB Tubes on a number of different demos and I always thought it sounded great. I compared lil tube with Decapitator and Black Box on my system and was also impressed with lil tube. But I wanted to make sure that my ears weren't deceiving me. I didn't even make it half way through your video before I went and purchased BB Tubes. Another great video! Thanks so much!
Thanks Mike! I'm glad you enjoyed it! The BB is pretty impressive. I'm curious to see what else Waves is cooking up with this Magma line. Seems like they've upped the sonic bar a bit here with this one.
@@bobbyxsteevbeats Overall, I prefer Black box. BB Tubes sounds good but Black box sounds a bit more refined. (If you can use the word 'refined' when talking about distortion and saturation!😀) But there are certainly places for each one and a lot of our perception is based on our personal tastes. Try each of them out and see which one works best for you!
@@bobbyxsteevbeats While I've never tested or measured it for that, but I usually always notice when a plugin is taking up an inordinate number of CPU cycles, (Waves Abbey Road Plates, anything from Zynaptic, etc.) but I have not noticed it with Black box. I have a session in a few hours and I'll check it out and let you know if I see and excessive CPU usage.
I have to say that listening to this track on your channel absolutely spoiled me for the Darren Frank track... which didn't sound anywhere near as good without the BB Tubes saturation on it... but I fell in love with the track and found it on Darren Frank's SoundCloud channel and downloaded it from there, imported it into Pro Tools, and put BB Tubes on it. Holy crap does it improve the sound! (And now I have to figure out how to bounce the track the way I like it, and hey I'm still learning but man is this a good song!)
That song you use gets confused on the chorus, maybe because of Toms i dont know, gets muddy, its strange..The low end.. But the beggining of the song much more clear and great. Cheers and great video. :)
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thank you! And thank you for checking it out. The track isn’t mixed. That’s pretty much where it was sitting out of production. There’s definitely a lot of low and low mid info on the track haha!
Really like these comparisons.. One thing id say is pleaaaaase don't talk and say the name of the plugin AS you switch as you ruin that instant impression when you switch which is most important. Maybe wait a couple of bars in before you say which is which. Let that initial sound and gut feeling hit first before you talk. Thanks for your efforts, I enjoyed. BB and Culture Vulture for me.
Hi Brad, thanks for the comparison of these saturators. I am relatively new to mastering and I am trying to teach myself into it and I just can't grasp the difference between those saturators. Of course, in the overdrive section I can hear a difference but on the "Gentle Saturation" part I just don't know what to listen for. When I look at my screen, I can hear a difference but when I close my eyes, I can't tell the difference of these saturators. What are you aiming at, in setting up these saturators? I always think to myself: “All of this can be changed in mixing.” Like the transient behavior, why don’t I use a transient shaper? If it brings up to top end, why don’t I use a dynamic EQ? Maybe you can help with my questions.😁
Thanks for checking out the comparison! I think the thing I would recommend is to just do a lot of ear training and experimenting with saturation. I would just set up an A/B comparison for yourself. Your unprocessed mix on A and then your saturated mix on B. Just make sure you're gain matched between the two at all time. I would start at exaggerated settings on the saturation and then slowly dial it back while constantly comparing. I would have some meters up so I could see how different settings affected dynamics and level. And I would do this over a variety of different sources. Full program material, drums, bass, vocals, etc. And once you have a feeling for the subtleties and nuances of one saturation plugin, maybe setup an A/B/C comparison and have two saturation plugins up and start comparing between those. And then try using saturation in place of other processors to reach the desired results your looking for. For example, if something is feeling too dynamic, maybe saturation will do some nice gentle limiting and compression as opposed to a compressor. But setup both the compressor and saturator and compare between the two. Or if you want to brighten something up maybe try getting there with saturation instead of EQ (The Oven or Spectre would be great plugins for something like this). And again make sure you setup a comparison of just straight EQ and saturation. I think just lots of trial and error is what will lead you to understanding where and when you might reach for saturation over other options or in combination with them. Hopefully that all makes sense! Please let me know! Thanks again for checking out the comparison!
Start watching your meters... you will see that even small amounts of saturation will give you lower levels but louder perceived loudness like a compressor/limiter. You will hear the noise floor/reverb/background details come forward and a slight rounding of the transients. It fills in the waveform and makes the sounds more dense.
Okay I really love the comparisons, but I feel like it's a bit of BB shilling. I understand it's just opinions, but here's a few things I noticed. First of all, the BB has little controls. This is awesome of course, but comparing it to some others with more options without using these feels slightly unfair. The Oven has clear focus points and Decapitator has the Tone button, both of which will completely change the frequency and saturation response and help you dial in the type of saturation/distortion that you'd like on a specific track. Secondly, the comparison is now very much focused on this one track, with nice and wide toms, chorusy guitars. The BB is in my opinion the winner of the lot in the first part of the video, but it's also because the way it accentuates the track works really well for this clip. It's clear that Culture Vulture has a better bass response and clamps down nicely on the transients. However, when you switch between it's clear that the BB is more spacious, wider and accentuates the sides more like exciting the sides. It's lush in that way and works well on the guitars. I also felt like the Black Box was doing a really good job in the first comparison, pushing on the transients and making it all pop a bit more. I don't know why you would call it "papery". In any case I wonder how the BB holds up in a modern pop song or even electronic music. Finally, I think on the distortion the Culture Vulture is the winner or maybe the Decapitator. I understand what you are saying that the BB sits nicely in the middle, just breaking up the sound a tad without overdoing it, but I'd probably favor the CV/Decap with the dry/wet down or as a parallel. Just my 2cents! Nice video :)
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for checking it out and sharing your thoughts! It's definitely a subjective comparison both in terms of my taste and criteria. No doubt about it haha!
Love spice rack! That’s been all over my mixes in the last few weeks! I haven’t found that it does subtle well, which is why I didn’t throw it into the comparison. If I do a round 2 here though it will probably make the cut! Thanks for the recommendation and checking out the comparison!
I haven’t tried this one out. Looks like there will probably be a round 2 of this. Lots of great recommendations coming in! It’s on the list! Thank uou!
I've only watched two of your videos and you really harp on auto gain a lot, kind of distracting, but I understand. However, the auto gain on the decapitator isn't ever correct so I have to redo it anyway. I think doing auto-gain with saturation devices is difficult because they can often be measuring at the same level but perceived level increases.
I also struggle with the side chain comp for you mic on the whole mix. Makes it difficult to really listen to the comparisons as the long release time fades back in.
Auto-gain on saturation is certainly difficult because of perceived volume! No doubt! I don’t need the auto-gain to be perfect, but I do think from a workflow, creativity, and critical listening standpoint, auto-gain is an invaluable tool/feature and leads to better and more exciting results. The whole channel is based around the pursuit of improving workflow, creativity, and sonics. So I’ll apologize in advance, I’ll probably be talking about auto-gain a lot. Both in praise of it’s inclusion (Newfangled Invigorate, Spicerack, Sa2Rate, etc.) and in surprise of its exclusion (BB Tubes, The Oven, LG Drive, etc.) Thanks for checking out the videos! Cheers!
The comparison is definitely looking at lots of units that are capable of producing similar results. So we're into the minutiae. Are you listening on a full range system?
That might be it for sure. Lots of subtleties here. And all great plugins. Any of them in your rotation? Let me know if you get a fully range listen in! Cheers!
and you need something like LetiMix gain compensation for those types of comparison. The levels were adjusted by ear and it wasn´t always accurate. And btw I love your content, my critiques are just meant to be constructive.
I appreciate the constructive feedback 😊 Thank you! Definitely more of a vibe comparison than a strict comparison for sure as I mentioned off the hop haha! I haven’t checked out the LetiMix gain or the TBProAudio ABLM. I will look into them! Thank you to you and @alf3k1 for the recommendations!
Just wanted to thank you and @alf3k1 again for the gain compensation plugin suggestions. I tried them both out last night. Both are awesome! I've tried auto-levelling plugins before, but not something with the send and receive setup. Brilliant! I'm sad I haven't come across these sooner haha! I think I'll be going with the LetiMix and will incorporate it into the Round 2 comparison! Cheers.
Depending on your workflow, Melda MAGC is also an option for adding automatic gain compensation. It matches the level of the side chain you send it. The price is right too at $0.
Excellent shootout! Will definitely plunk down some cash on the BB while it's on special. I will second some of the other folks here that my go-to saturator is the P42 Climax. It has some really nice EQ features built in, plus mid-side, but just the saturator alone with everything off is really pleasing as well. It seems to have a way of pushing volume without pushing the needle. I can see happily using either the BB and P42 for different situations.
Thanks Jim! I'm glad you dig the comparison! I'm looking forward to hearing this P42. I'm just lining up the a Round 2 comparison video with it in there! I hope all is well! Cheers.
I have that and this sounds different and at least as good. There is not one saturation that fits all use cases, having a few with different characters is best.
@elequentum Perhaps the intent of your comment didn't land right here, but this doesn't feel polite. You're more than welcome to disagree with other people's opinions, but please be kind and respectful in the process of doing so. Cheers.
I enjoyed your video, but haven’t had a chance to check out the BB Tubes yet. The comparisons were nice but I wish you had the Pulsar Modular P42 Climax and the SSL Fusion vintage in the lineup, Which I and many others think are 2 of the best-sounding Saturation plugins out right now.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Thank you! There's been lots of great suggestions on plugins to try, so I imagine I will do a round 2 of the comparison. The P42 has been mentioned a few times and it's one I've not tried before, so that will probably be on the list! Vintage Drive is a great plugin as well! Cheers.
Great comparisons! I haven't had a chance to try BB yet, but I'm liking what I've heard so far. My preferred saturator, for quite some time, has been the Black Box. Looking forward to comparing the 2 on my own. Thanks again.
Same, Black Box was my go to. THEN I demoed this beast and can't seem to find anything that matches the vibe. Will have to pull the trigger at this point.
With all due respect man, one should always read the manual before something like this. You are using Diamond DS in dynamic mode, static mode would have made a better comparison as well as having more recognisable behaviour.
I did read the manual yup. Just an oversight on my part. Bound to have one in a live comparison of this size :) If you check out any of my reviews you’ll see I’m a manual nerd 🤓
There’s been lots of great suggestions for additional plugins to compare against. So I’ll probably do a round 2 and will be sure to run it back with the Diamond. Cheers!
Hi Brad, thanks for the comparison. Agree this Beauty & Beast sounds nice. If you like saturation plugins you should check Synth Warmer by Kazrog, this one is a little gem. I love the radiator & Little radiator as well by soundtoys but I am sure you know those.
Glad you enjoyed the comparison! Thank you for checking it out! I haven’t tried the Kazrog Synth Warmer. I have True Iron and love it! Radiator and Little Radiator are awesome too. Lots of great suggestions coming in. Definitely considering a round two. They’re on the list! Thank you for the recommendations!
What I wonder the MOST.. is how would these choices play out on individual instruments or stems, as opposed to the greater range and complexity of a complete song. I use overdrive devices of various sorts on almost every sound source in a song, but RARELY do I use the same plugin on different types of sound sources. I still find the secret winner on individual tracks to be the old PSP Audioware Vintage Saturator. It literally allows me to omit most of the compressors I might typically use over the various tracks in a song. One simply has to learn how to use it. 😎👍👍
Nicely done video. If you're looking for more tube plugins for the next one, you could compare Klanghelm SDRR. Unlike the new releases, it has gain compensation. Saturators without gain compensation aren't getting my money.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I do love the Klanghelm stuff. The VUMT is one of my most beloved and used plugins. I don't think I've spent time with the SDRR though. I will be sure to give it a go. Thanks for the recommendation!
If I chose the original dual stage saturator I believe it would be the Vertigo Sound VSM-3 by UAD and Plugin-alliance. Too bad you missed it, it still remains the best.
Thanks for the great work on this project. Black Box has my vote for both the high end, and instrument separation/soundstage. The bottom freqs. felt as present to me as the BB. Dunno, different yes, but in a lively way.
I did read the manual yup. Just an oversight on my part, which there is bound to be in a live streamed comparison of this size. If you check out my reviews, you'll see I'm a pretty big manual nerd 🤓 Cheers.
I think you kind of missed the point on this. I think it does not make sense to compare these plugins without using all the tools they include (like with the oven, it's supposed to be used with the low band to compensate for lost heft and you did notice the low end get eaten, but didn't compensate for it). It's like trying to get a transparent recording with an SSL 4000 console it doesn't make sense. Still like the idea of you matching everything to a tasteful point so keep it up ;). BB is probably also saturating lows differently than highs, that's why the low end is relatively clean but has a heft above the fundamentals, would have made a lot of sense to try that on the blackbox hg2 it's designed to be used like that. No hate just constructive criticism thanks
Without a doubt the comparison is completely subjective both in regards to taste and criteria haha! And the criteria was based around how do these boxes perform as straight up saturation and distortion units. I was purely interested in finding out the quality of the saturation and distortion and how that compares to the BB. That's why the BB was the A and everything else the B in the comparison. So following that criteria, I don't believe the comparison misses the point and it informs my understanding of how those units perform at those tasks. But again it's completely subjective! And without a doubt doesn't necessarily play to the strengths of all of the features these units have to offer or what they were designed for. Case in point, The Oven in the distortion part of the comparison. After this comparison and before doing the Round 2 comparison video (which is out), I popped the BB into Plugin Doctor and the transformer is adding a good DB shelf at around 50Hz that starts around gently around 200Hz and there's a bit of a dip at 2K. So in Round 2 I included two versions of the BB. With and without the transformer. And to my ear and taste, the BB as a tube saturation unit and distortion box is pretty impressive sonically. Both with and without the transformer. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I definitely appreciate the comments and constructive criticism! Thanks for checking it out and taking the time!
Good content here in this video but could i offer some constructive feedback without it being seen as an attack? Please back off from that mic the proximity effect sounds like asmr.... Just back up off the mic a bit until the proximity effect weakens and your voice will sound much more natural and then you wont have to whisper because you wont be swallowing the mic 😉👍
@@mr_bradsmith thanks for taking it the way it was meant and i do fully understand that my critique or my opinion doesnt and probs shouldnt matter to anyone but me... But did genuinely mean it with positivity rather than negativity 👍 thank you 👍
@@delorusclaiborne3274 It was definitely received that way! Thank you 😊 Quite grateful for constructive feedback and the effort & time folks put into giving it. It has a distinctly different flavour than the opposite kind haha! The proximity effect is an intentional choice on my part. Both for stylistic and technical reasons. On the technical front, I'm a bit more naturally soft spoken and my rig is laptop based so I'm battling some serious fan noise when I've got a session running. So signal to noise is a balancing act. I'll be able to change this a bit more when I move over to a Mac Studio setup and off the laptop. Cheers!
Guys, guys, am I the only one that has discovered the saturator that's inside NI's Supercharger GT compressor? I think it's a hidden gem, heck the whole compressor is hugely underrated in my oppinion.
@@mr_bradsmith Yes, they have one called Drive, and one called Dirt, but those are kind of aggressive, I was talking about their compressor "Supercharger GT" which has a saturation option with three kinds of saturation, and they sound better than many standalone saturators.
This comparison reignited my love for the UAD Culture-Vulture. I haven’t heard any plug-in that breaks up as beautifully as that one. I hope they make it native soon.
It has reignited my love for it as well haha! I sure hope everything is available native soon. It's long overdue. Thanks for checking out the comparisons!
I turned sour on WAVES at one point because many of their plugins cap at 96khz sample rate. (IMHO why they tend to sometimes sound murky). But I have to say, this is good. And supports 192khz. Your thorough comparisons here tipped me over. I bought it. I really like it. Subscribed! If I had to compare it to another product, I would say Inflator by Sonnox. I consider Inflator as salt on the upper mids. Things just sparkle with it. With BB? It's like pepper. Same smooth results but more in the lower mids. I'll be experimenting heavily with the two now. BTW- great track! Never heard of Darren Frank. The dude should be a star. Thanks for plugging a considerable talent. ✌
I'm glad you enjoyed the comparison! Thank you! And thanks for the subscription. It's interesting to hear your comments on Waves, I kind of felt the same way about the sound of them before the move to 32-Bit floating point. I hadn't considered the sample rate cap. Thanks for giving me some nerdy things to ponder 🤔 Love the inflator. That's a mix buss staple! Glad you dig the track! I will be passing your comments on to Darren. I'm hoping to get enough comments together to petition him to release more work. If you can believe it, he hasn't put anything out in over a decade.
AA is classed as off market / nonstandard since they have the broken OS issues, and weird way of operating, so it shouldn't be included. AA is separate platform,,,,
I would recommend experimenting! Generally I like to add saturation at the end of my chain, but sometimes it’ll be the first thing I add if I’m looking for density.
I keep meaning to try out the Pulsar plugins. I’ve heard great stuff! It’s on the list. Thank you for the recommendation and glad you dig the comparisons!
@@mr_bradsmith FYI… I was working to create a standard starting rack I work from and was really torn between BB Tubes, The Oven and Decapitator as my saturation go to. Love all three plugins. You helped me confirm my “feelings” about which direction to go. Thanks again.
@@tawdrybeast Definitely can't go wrong with those three! Glad I could help out! The BB has been living at the end of my vocal chain for a while now. Love it!
