"You think training is expensive? You should try ignorance." Joel has been waiting for the perfect moment to use that line in a video. By golly, I think he found it.
No, the standard electrical panel has not been around for 100 years. The transition from fuses to breakers happened in that time span, and that was rather a large upgrade. The house I grew up in was built in 1950; it had fuses.
Don't think 1% of customers would spend that much money but it's versatile. Would be nice on homes that are not occupied full time. You could monitor say how much each baseboard heating circuit was drawing to pick up a bad heater. Hope
The market for these has to be very small. I would like to know what happens when one of the computer chips in a specific circuit doesn’t work. I would guess the circuit stays alive, but what is the end game for all this? To each his own, but it’s too expensive for the average person. Just my .$.02. I did enjoy the video. :)
@@larryzapotocky1363 As with all electronics good luck attempting to get a replacement chip or part once it's 8 years old. Had $10,000 drives for large motors that were only 7 or 8 years old that had to be scrapped because no longer could get replacement parts. Only parts you could get was cooling fans & touch screens.
I don't care how white and shiny it is. If it's open to the internet and collects and shares my data then keep it the hell away from me. One tracking device in my pocket is quite enough, thanks.
looks cool but from experience, things like this only introduce more failure margin later on especially in the area of sensitive MCU's and EMI or possible cyber threats creating a bad day for you. IOT home is a fun neat HOBBY for the Arduino and fruit pi geeks but in daily practice it can become unreliable real fast and even become a safety hazard thus sometimes it's best to just keep it simple
The fact that they need cooling fans screams that there are impending failures just waiting to happen. I wonder if they can get a virus, get hacked, they steal catalytic converters are these next? No thanks. I will stick to my grandfathers panel that will still be there in a 100 years when this thing has been in the scrap heap for 90 years already lol
YES. Lets spent 10k plus so we can tell a computer what circuits we don't need if the power goes out. God forbid we walk to the panel and switch them off. Who needs 10k when you don't want to walk across your own home and do manual labor.
I imagine it works much like the home sense. Which in addition to monitoring the wattage. It can also detect when motors go bad. Or power leaks etc. that could also be exclusive to home sense. Some people spend money on cars other people spend money on gadgets lol
55 years in the trade as a Licensed Journeyman Electrician and I have never used Spade Bits or what also is called paddle bits. I prefer to use Irwin Nail Eaters Wood Augers or Hole Saws when necessary when drilling through Stud Framing Members or Ceiling joists .
I'm curious as to why you never went for master? I'm looking to start journeyman apprenticeship thing in Wisconsin in the next 6 months. Was it just too much hassle without much benefit?
These panels are insane! The features, the control, and of course the price, it's insane. I would absolutely love one of these. These are the best of the best. Please do a networking video like a smart panel with Ethernet/fiber home runs! I loved your camera video install. I'd love to see more networking videos!
to me it falls short of my/1970 3000SF needs 400A 240V sp main 42-60 circuits seman's full copper units. the old one was triple stacked and or lots of hackers in the last 50 years of course it wasn't me taking shortcuts 30 to 40 isn't enough room and or fire hazard and yes the house has been on fire in the last 5 years as a general idea i like the span it's just not up to snuff yet as a product
Curious about how it fails, can it be repaired if the individual circuit monitors fail? It would be a problem if you have to replace all of this every couple years. Seems unlikely that you're going to get any more than 10 years out of this before something fails on it let alone just wanting to upgrade.
Of all the panels I've seen zip tied that is a nice job it's not covered in zip ties it's only from what I can see 4? Which means you could cut them off and put reusable zip ties on and it wouldn't be a complete mess or a pain. I think zip ties get overused, careful placement is Key.
Strange panel, that it has no holes, with UL listing, then it gets drilled out later, how does that change the UL listing, since you modified the mfgs. build. Standard panels come with lots of knockouts, as the panel is UL listed as such
The original panel looked REALLY nice: 20A circuits all on the left, 15A on the right. Also, it seemed like a LOT of slack for each circuit inside the box. Just wondering if that's recommended now a days. Or, it was just a detailed install job the first time. [My 10yr old new construction house has neither of that.]
So, you pay $3,200 for a panel then you have to drill it out like Swiss Cheese, have metal bits fall falling into the thing just so you can monitor loads that you are going to stop doing when the newest wares off. I really got to know how much electricity my Rumba is using. What a waste of money. When the zombie apocalypse happens, I hope he can get technical support for an electrical panel. And how much do the fans cost to replace when they burn out from running 24/7.
Musk's reinventing the wheel is not always wise. Like his stupid solar roofing tiles. The industry tried and abandoned this bad idea 30 years ago... and he introduces them like they are a new good thing! LOL!
Hmm, a regular panel will last 50 to 100 years. I seriously doubt this will last 10 years before there are problems and servicing looks nearly impossible. And there is no way there is going to be support in 20 years.
When you stop respecting it, It will bite you!! I tell my customers that all the time. There is more of a demand for electricians now than ever before. God job Bro.🤟
$4500 for the Span Panel itself. You would be paying the electrician another 3,000 to 5,000 for the install. Close to 10,000 for the entire install, that isn't counting new installs. Those would be more expensive.
I had my Span installed in August 2022 in preparation for having solar installed. The only issue I've had was the app on my phone couldn't see the panel for about two weeks. I could see it from my browser on my PC. Span support was able to reset the IO board on the panel and it has been working great ever since. One concern is the monitoring is cloud based so if the internet goes down or the company shuts down the panel loses all its smarts. The other concern is if the company changes its business model and starts charging for the cloud monitoring. The ability to disable a breaker from my phone so I can work on an switch or outlet without running back and forth or having a friend on the phone at the panel is a game changer. I just noticed your Navien tankless water heater. I replaced my Bosch unit with a Navien about 6 years ago.
that's most likely going to happen down the road, had a camera the same thing after 5 years, started charging a monthly fee for each cam connected to the cloud, now that they got all that hardware bought & installed, they practically got you hostage, pay or loose the access/features. As the old saying goes 'KISS' you'll be glad in the long run you did
I'm very concerned about these software interfaces even though I program and work with things like that every day. I seriously doubt they'll be supported for a very long time. There is no standardization nor is there regulation yet for that. Sure, that stuff is neat at inception. But, if one is relying on that software to work for 50 years, I am 99.99% sure they will disappointed in the long run. I'm sure it will work great for 3 years. The base mechanicals should last much longer than that. The software and future platforms? I seriously doubt it.
I installed 3 of these in a home these panels are only great if u want headaches and burnt out hole saw although the lights on the side are a nice touch
Span took me to breakfast to pitch their panels and was not impressed, we're in AZ and they won't warranty it if it goes over a certain temp so basically can't be in direct sunlight
If we're going to make smart circuits, the smarts should be in the breakers, not the panel. That way when one goes bad, it's a quick and cheap replacement.
I don't think SPAN is a good idea. Relying on cloud services for smart home stuff puts your data and controls in the hands of another company. What do they do with that data? What if they go bankrupt, now your smart panel is no better than a regular one. Choose a solution that can do all this without the need for an active internet connection, with local control, and open source software.
Yeah, get the basic one...nothing wrong with it. Plus, what if someone doesn't like what you posted on social media. They can just turn off your panel! They already cancel people's social media and credit card; under the pretext of them being a private company and they can do whatever they want.
How long is the warranty for soc / chips ? What happens after 10 years. Even the WiFi is outdated every few years with newer version ...so thinking 10 years is good time for overhaul
Does it support MQTT? A smart panel (or any device) that doesn't support MQTT is pretty much worthless because that means you can't integrate it into your existing smart home and are locked into only using their app.
There's a difference between tech enthusiasts and people like programmers. Enthusiasts want the new and shiny; "oo cool tech, smartify my life!". But as a programmer, I'd pay extra to have this NOT installed in my building.
Extremely interesting, wow these are amazing. Your explanation is outstanding. Thank you. Oh, at 11:20 you said "...utilize...". Sorry I miss the memo stating, "rather than utilize the correct word use, we must now utilize utilize." Using utilize comes across as pompous and self-ingratiating. Utilize does not mean what folks think it does, utilize is more about what our bodies do with food and medicine. Also, when something is utilized, it is being used for other than its intended design and purpose. Think about the chair, we use it to sit upon (it is designed to be sat upon), however it can be utilized as a step stool.
They did NOT think of everything, why not a hinged cover instead of a stupid screw and lift off panel cover. Why do electric panels not have a hinged cover???
The no mixing of Low Voltage In High Voltage Box's Code really goes out the BIG Window with this. So when the Box gets hit by Lightning and takes out the data Transceiver and or antennas, How do you replace them when Buried behind the Sheet Rock? Putting the antennas on the cover leaves room for Cabling I think an automotive designer designed this Box. Never in My life time...
At the end of your other video (No Room In Electrical Panel - Quick Fix) you advertised this video one of the statements you made was this video would include the pricing of this panel. I guess I am watching the wrong YT channel.
What problem are you solving for the user (homeowner)? To add solid state devices in the distribution center is under the best of scenarios lacking a compelling reason and in most cases reducing safety to end users, by that I am refering to reliability of power at end point for what is more commonly today present in modern homes of medically needed power to medical devices. Distribution centers distribute power to various loads and limit current to safe levels according to conductor size and can detect certain circuit problems. these panels are exposed to raw input power from providers, utility company, generators, battery back up and very few ICs that are affordable can handle spikes or low voltgage w/o failing in short order. How many owners care how many watts it takes to make coffee or any other use other than as a curiosity? When a spike enters from a provider very few protectors can interrupt/protect the entire system leaving Span type system vulnerable to a failure that will take days to replace main circuit board let alone diagnose individuual ICs possibly leaving the user w/o power for extended times. I feel that if span wants to provide circuit info current coils on each wire would be more reliable and not lead to power failures that could not be rectified until special parts were installed vs going to any supplier and getting a replacement breaker. I was lucky enough to have a dad that was an elec. engineer taught at UM and had a small elec. company 1-2 service trucks so I got my journetman lic. in 62-63 and two years later my masters lic 63-64. I am now retired but keep my lic. current in FL.
I'm sorry but a panel that expensive should already have knock-out holes on the top, bottom, and sides. Somebody is going to ruin an entire panel by making a mistake drilling those holes...
Not convinced yet on Span a panel maker that does not make its own breakers in my view has limitations with regard to engineering quality I will wait on that. Panels should include better fire protection including thermal fire protection. Look at the UK company called Enviroburst that does very nice fire suppression tubes that fit in a panel it’s very slimline that can stop a fire in a panel much like a fire extinguisher. I still think the Leviton smart panel with smart WiFi breakers would still be a cheaper option than the smart panel. The Span panel may have slightly better software aspects but not convinced on hardware side. It would have been nice if you had discussed the fans and how they work in the panel. You could restore the sheathing on that knicked cable by UL listed heat shrinking. On the ideal competition if first time I would do a few test rigs using ideal tools you do need to prep. Best guy who has one the championship more than won is Greg Anliker a superb electrician and he is so methodical and organized super efficient. Watch his performance on Sparky Channel provides a great overview of his work approach.
Panel itself is $4500, install will probably add $2000+ to that. It is oriented towards houses with solar panels and Tesla style storage and allows you to control what part of the house gets what from the solar/battery supply. If installed with the solar/battery storage/inverters it can be rolled in as part of the price and hence tax deductions available. If installed separately it is not eligible for tax deductions. If you don't have solar or battery storage this makes no sense.
Ok, I like what you're throwing down here. How about a few more considerations? My daughter made brownies and left the oven on. We then left home for the day-oops. Someone turned the sauna on and left it on unknown to us. It took a $400 bump on our electric bill before we finally discovered that-ouch. The electric savings to be able to shut down all appliances which are costly to operate from one app while we're gone on a trip would be helpful! Early notification that my AC unit is under distress would be great! Once the IRA implementation and definitions are released we may find that standalone panel upgrades are eligible for tax credits too!
Bro - u are like a 6 yr old on Xmas morning. This panel would be “cool” if the home owner was the only one that could see, monitor collect data and control every aspect of their power usage. Sorry bro, but that isn’t the case.
Brother I am a Automotive Technican and I like what you said it dose not matter how much you know there is always something new lol so true love all your videos you are the best if you were in toronto i i will come work with you God Bless
So those antennas, are those for cellular or Bluetooth or Wi-Fi and if they’re buried in the basement of a house or somewhere wouldn’t it be better to remote those antennas, I remote antennas for Equipment all the time and that doesn’t seem like a great place to keep those
SPAN is the simplest & best solution we've found for monitoring and managing secondary power. The monitoring, control, and automation are all best-in-class, the app and physical products are user-friendly and aesthetically pleasing, and their support have been great for us.
Old code allowed 42 circuits now 84. Way I remember is the # is evenly divided by the #6. At a new 12 floor building they used all 84 circuit 120/208 225 amp panels. Biggest problem they are installed in electrical closets and all circuits feed from top of panel. To make matters worst they insisted on no multiwire circuits ( shared neutrals ) and the vast majority of the circuits were 20 amp and had to use all #10 wire from panel to first JB. Ended up running all 1" EMT from panel with think it was 19 #10 wires. ( 2 ground, 9 white grounded conductors & 3 each of black, red & blue wires.
Since the 2008 NEC, the Code does not set a maximum number of circuit breakers a panel can have as long as the manufacturer allows for a certain amount in the panel boards design and listing. No more limit of 42. If a panel is protected by a main breaker or an upstream overcurrent device, they could theoretically have as many as needed to supply the loads as long as it was sufficiently designed to carry the loads. Good change.
@@rrussell39 Installed a 40 circuit panel inky home almost 40 years ago. All natural gas cooking, dryer, heat & water heater . Ran a lot of circuits that I finally maxed it out a few years ago. Have a small sub panel in the garage.
@@rrussell39 Thought somebody told us that there was a maximum of 84 circuits.its a mess when you have 80 black, 80 white and at least a dozen #10 wires ( total of 170 ) wires all leaving the top of a 84 circuit panel no matter how many ty rabs you use. I have a 42 circuit panel.in my house that is max'ed out with at least 26 NM cables enter at the top and remainder thru one side. Took my time , installed bunch of tr rab bases & ty rabs and would not want to remove any of the rear top.cables.
@@JohnThomas-lq5qp You heard right, prior to the 2008 NEC, panelboards were limited to 42 circuits per enclosure. If we needed more than 42 breakers we would use 'pass-thru' panels...basically two panels next to each other. You would feed the first panel, then another set of lugs on the bottom of that first panels busses would allow you to feed on to the second section, and again install up to 42 breakers. They still make them, and I have used a lot of them. Luckily in the 38 years I have been in the trade the panels cabinets have greatly increased in size to allow for new NEC requirements. Some of the older panels were even smaller, by a considerable amount. Sometimes you would have an older panel so full that you would have to be careful the cover screws didn't bite into a conductor. The problem really gets bad when someone fills their panel spaces up with the twin or piggyback breakers to add even more circuits than the panel is designed for by removing the metal tab (or cutting the plastic) that allows them to only be installed on a specific section of the panels bus...basically filling the entire panel with twins. Not a problem if the enclosure is sized to handle the wire-fill and extra heat, but if not, can cause lots of heat related issues. I have seen it all...and then some. Good luck.
Hey Joel, I really enjoy watching your videos, and as you might imagine I'm interested because I need to do some badly needed electrical upgrades at my house. The list of projects is long so I won't go into all of it, but I do have a more general question. And maybe this is an idea for a video too? My question is, how would you recommend we go about choosing a local electrician, that will do good quality work, like you, and do it for a fair price? I'm in Utah, so unfortunately I can't use you. :) But I'm really hesitant to use any of the big companies that have dozens of trucks running around the area. It seems like getting good quality out of them is more hit and miss than finding an independent that takes pride in their work and wants to build lasting customer relationships. I'm all about loyalty to people that do good work for a fair price. And I'm also not afraid of getting my hands dirty and doing some of the easier things myself. Let me know what you think, if you have a few minutes to respond. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Hey @Earl Lewis, sounds like EPro-2-Call might be a great option for you as a 2nd opinion to a local guy or yourself (electric-pro-academy.square.site/)! Otherwise, we covered a few things to look for in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rJFIP0no6WM.html. Let us know if that still leaves some questions.
hey Joel (or any other electricians reading the comments), I got a question: I'm trying to get out on my own and do work but I've always worked for someone else and have only done a few smaller jobs for people on my own. I upgraded the service entrance for a friend of a friend, went from a 100 amp up to 200 amp. pulled the old stuff off, new exterior meter/panel combo (siemens) overhead service where mast had to go through edge of roof, 4/0 aluminum service wire, grounding and rods, modified existing EMT that went to various places so it came neatly into the panel, new #2 feeding to existing FedPacific indoor panel (all circuits were left as was from that one) being fed from 100A breaker in the new panel. It was reconnected soon after. that was the scope of work. my question is: what should a job like that cost? I don't have the experience pricing jobs like that. I charged 1500 and have no idea if I over-charged or under-charged. He was pumped to get me to do it so I think I was on the low end, but I'm relying on him for word-of-mouth advertising so hopefully I didn't rip him off any input from the electrical community would be much appreciated
I got an unlicensed guy to do this for me, 100 to 200 service upgrade, overhead live disconnect, new service entrance conduit, panel, etc. Paid $1300 last year. Definitely the low end, he didn't do a few things right, didn't know I knew anything about electrical and wanted to argue about it. He ended up fixing it, but it was his own laziness for taking shortcuts. For these jobs, especially doing everything right and getting inspected you should be charging at least 2k.
@@tylerwatt12 thanks for the input Tyler. But out of curiosity, the utility company doesn't need to reconnect the service to the overhead or underground mains there? or do they not require a license from somebody before they'll reconnect? I just don't understand how the guy got away with it.
@@Kevin-ip8uf He was able to disconnect it live. Risky but doable. Insulated gloves and tools. No permits pulled. I watched him connect the new line while it was hot from the pole. The utility was not informed in any way
@@ElectricProAcademy I tried to be detailed about the scope of the job so you could have a better idea of what to advise, but didn't want to 'dumb it down' since we all work in the field and know what is entailed. lol. Ok cool, thank you guys for your input. The strategic sales approach is what might get me though. I don't have much exposure in the area and like I said, the customers word-of-mouth advertising is something I'm hoping to help. But at least I have a better idea of what I can charge when I'm more established. side note: I did get a good price on materials because my boss said I could use their account at the distributors and just pay for it myself - so I was able to offer a better price to the client with that than if I'd gone to get everything from home depot or some place. By the way I love that your videos usually break down the pricing of your jobs. keep up the good work.
Hey, I actually used to work for Joel. He is the best and never discouraged us to do side work as long as it didn't interfere with work work. I now own my own company with 11 employees, and am doing alright for myself. Here is some advice I would give you and most of it comes from Joel. #1) Do a great job for you current boss - it will go miles for you when you are ready to start you own company. #2) Study, study, study. If you boss offers schooling take advantage of it. And if you have a boss that dosnt offer it, get it on your own - take control of you future. Also, the more you know the better electrician and employee you'll be. Your current boss will notice. #3) Know yourself and you capabilities and charge accordingly. This comes directly from Joel - think about each part and piece and charge for every part including the 6-32's your going to use. Then make your best judgement of time your going to spend on the job based on all the information you have about the job and figure out the hours you going to be there and charge for that. There are many ways to estimate a job - but this is a tried and true way to do it. #4) Don't trade the best things for good things. Meaning that family life is of the utmost importance, and owning your own company is second to that. From my own experience, owning your own company its best is like adding two kids to your family and at its worst is like having a second family. #5) If you do it well, profit/loss will be at 80/20. Meaning 80% of the time you will make a profit and 20% you will not. So be conscious of that. Save up your money. I had almost 50k saved up for my company and because I started out with some bigger accounts that had some longer turn around times (net 30's) along with other start up costs and payrolls, within 5 months it was all eaten up. It has returned, but I have the battle scars from fighting for it back. Good luck
My question was answered. A premium product automatically demands premium installation costs even though it takes the same time as a typical panel swapout. No thanks.
Knipex and Whia GERMAN tools, get a Knipex wire stripper, you will realize how bad Ideal, Klein, and others are. WHIA insulated torque screwdriver KIT 11 pcs, all bits insulated and handle... to set screws correctly on the breakers
I'm not a survivalist, but I don't think the evolution to more microcircuitry is wise. EMP or solar flares could too easily fry all the circuit boards beginning to be inserted in too many items that have no need of it. This is a shiny new toy, and there is the geek appeal for the boys who have to have the most advanced, but they are vulnerable in a new way as well. And, as anything else that is computer controlled, it is ultimately hackable. Yes, this is the entry to a lucrative market for the 1%, but that is an electrician thing, not a consumer thing. Most of us don't want to have to be involved in power distribution decisions from our phones.
Вот это электрощит приятно посмотреть...и в России тоже долны быть налажен выпуск таких электрощитов типа-"ЛЕГО",и к ним установочные изделия на разную мощность и напряжения что бы малограмотный "специалист" не фантозировал (под выпевши)и НЕ разводил клиентов на бабла....УРА РОССИЯ УРА РОССИЙСКИЙ СОЛДАТ УРА РОССИЙСКИЙ НАРОД
The panel is expensive and so is the electricians where I got this info from. "The cost of installing a Span electrical panel is typically about the same as replacing a traditional electrical panel: roughly $3,200 for the panel and glass door front plus another $3,500 for labor, breakers, and miscellaneous wiring needed to complete the installation."
Americans seem to be obsessed with bringing all of the conductors in the top of the panel, and it interests me. I've always preferred routing them outside of the panel down the sides and entering right where the breaker is. Much more accessible and clean interiors to the panel that way. I think that's more common up here because the main disconnect is required to be in a separate chamber to the individual circuits, so running all of the conductors through that chamber is usually not an option anyways.
