WE WERE WRONG about MAD Lions / LEC Winter 2024 review- The Best Damn League Show. S4E7 ft Zaboutine

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Thorin is joined by Thomas "Zaboutine" Si-Hassen to revisit their LEC preseason power rankings, praise MAD Lions for achieving 2nd place despite low expectations at the start of the split, discuss what the future of Karmine Corp should look like, celebrate G2's lights out performance in the Playoffs, and more.
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The Best Damn League Show is a podcast focused on the LEC and European League of Legends hosted by Duncan "Thorin" Shields and a rotating series of co-hosts.
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This video was recorded on February 21st, 2024.
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0:00:00 - Intro
0:04:28 - MAD Lions KOI
0:18:30 - GiantX
0:27:48 - BDS
0:49:31 - Rogue
1:02:59 - SK
1:10:41 - Fnatic
1:21:57 - Vitality
1:34:13 - Karmine Corp
1:57:05 - Team Heretics
2:06:24 - G2
#lec
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast

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Опубликовано:

27 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 107

@akomar93 5 месяцев назад

Sources: New Best Damn league show co-host will be Frankie Ward (she needs to feed her kids)

@2sthimo449 5 месяцев назад

Havent heard of Thorin killing her friends yet so I dont think shes interested

@hamzahgunderson7781 5 месяцев назад

@@2sthimo449yet

@paulathekoala1699 5 месяцев назад

The nice thing about dom not being on the show anymore is the episodes now are longer which is nice

@Grizzleface 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine is always great. Love hearing him talk league.

@tehAmbi 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine is definitely the best guest for this show along with Dom in my opinion. I hope he keeps coming

@jubjub6330 5 месяцев назад

Facts. Jensen Goh is either clueless or talks about games he hasn't seen

@boyonthephone4331 5 месяцев назад

@@jubjub6330I personally like Jensen Goh because he says things nobody else does but I can always see where he's coming from. He basically never says the popular opinion which makes him so interesting to listen to. Even if you disagree, he creates a lot of interactions that no other guest ever thinks about and as a viewer disagreeing is important. would be boring if everyone saw the game through the same set of eyes. I don't want to start a discussion btw, just wanted to share my opinion

@joshuawilson799 5 месяцев назад

Dom is garbage. This show is actually watchable now with the rotating guests.

@cremlindor6607 5 месяцев назад

I personally enjoy Nymaera the most out of the guests so far

@cepheus9856 5 месяцев назад

Nah, Dom episode was my least favorite as they just have same opinions. Zaboutine actually was the best guest. Jensen is hard to understand for me as he eats his words or really bad mic quality, another people pleaser who just parrots Thorin.

@hardlo7146 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine was definitely the best guest this season, I dare say even better than Dom. 😅 The last few minutes on G2 filled me with hopium, let's hope G2 continues their dominance throughout the Spring Split and show up for MSI on form.

@AofCastle 5 месяцев назад

Melzhet has been interviewed a few times in spanish and the topic of the off-meta picks came out. He said that anything goes but some requirements must be met. If any of his players wants to play a certain pick they have to prove it's viable by getting good results with it in soloq. If the pick works in soloq it may be tested in scrims as well (exceptions being the obvious like semifinals when there's only a handful teams left). If it works in scrims then it can come out in official matches at any point. He's also willing to argue with the player if he disagrees with the perceived performance of the pick. For example he may tell the player to play more games of soloq with the pick if he believes the performance wasn't impressive enough. Melzhet has also said multiple times that in order to be successful internationally you have to develop your own style, with examples like MSF 2017 (Leona+Ivern in ardent meta) or G2 2019 (Pyke top + Syndra bot). I have huge respect for him and I hope his "hard work eventually pays off" mentality is proved correct.

@znachwd2015 5 месяцев назад

This is exactly what Romain and Dylan were saying for years now. That spanish fk has not invented anything

@AofCastle 5 месяцев назад

@@znachwd2015 and it's why G2 (and BDS) is so successful. The point is that more teams should do it.

@AofCastle 5 месяцев назад

@@znachwd2015 also, no need to be so aggressive. Saying that I respect one coach doesn't mean everyone else is trash. Saying that I respect one coach means that I respect that coach.

@daandepauw5252 5 месяцев назад

@@AofCastle i would say BDS isn't rly like that. sure Adam plays his "GODS" champs, but besides for the toplane they kind of only play one style. Nuc on a control mage and teamfight and sure they are good at teamfighting, but they are never going to be better at teamfighting than the top LPL and LCK teams, so that's why they will never do any meaningful damage at internationals.

@AofCastle 5 месяцев назад

@@daandepauw5252 They don't have an explosive style like G2, but they're solid, more than the sum of its parts. BDS has honed one style and it's on the other teams to break it. I agree that their playstyle will never be as successful internationally, but I can still appreciate their efforts

@STK_123 5 месяцев назад

Blessing us with content, thanks for another banger, personally love zaboutine as a guest!

@0re0n 5 месяцев назад

When talking about GX should've mentioned they signed Juhan for their ERL team (for people who don't know, if Juhan wasn't on DRX they would've never even went to Worlds in the first place). It's also crazy they have korean mid on their ERL team too, 2 imports on bottom tier LVP. They could've easily play with Abbedagge, put Jackies on their LVP team to at least play in tier 1 ERL firs and swap him into LEC for Summer.

@giannidavies3594 5 месяцев назад

New co-host should be Nuc

@Fabritox5 5 месяцев назад

Best co host for next season has got to be Zaboutine!

@envgaming 5 месяцев назад

This has to be one of if not the best episode of BDLS to date. Zabou is such a treat to listen to and brings some really interesting insight that is easily digestible to fans. Definitely need to hear more from him

@jakuzzzi 5 месяцев назад

ZABOUTINE BACK ON DA SCENE BABY, GOIN SCREEN 2 SCREEN BB

@juanxotero 5 месяцев назад

I didn't know Zaboutine but it has been a very pleasent surprise!

@MeNourovic 5 месяцев назад

Huge episode ! A nice closing to the split.

@MarvinatioN26 5 месяцев назад

zaboutine os on point, stellar guest on bdls

@omegadrew6649 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine nailed the point about EU being an innovating region and correlating it to G2’s 2019 success.

@Dankness31 5 месяцев назад

I love that Zab and Thorin still do content. I remember the first time he was a guest on Listen Loco and Thorin really ripped into him for not being very concrete in his answers, and I don’t know if there was really any chemistry, but I like people who don’t get butthurt

@paranoidxz2360 5 месяцев назад

There are previous Myrwin spanish coaches interviews that always were asked about Myrwin deep championpool and how was the moment the guy said to them: hey i want pick this, trust me. Myrwin always is trying in SoloQ mastering new champion in Toplane then when he test that one new can be doable he directly create his own Excel arguing why is good, how to play, strenght, weakness etc then he do a presentation to the whole team explaining it, if the team agree they try it in some scrim and if this works then they can add it into stage. Myrwin is the one of the few players that love play league of legends same with the rest of MDK rookies, a lot of professional players are playing league because is their job but they don't like anymore the game.

@narrei666 5 месяцев назад

i understand zaboutine is french, but everytime he says flows my brains pauses to realize he meant flaws and i can continue 😄

@moneymaker8457 5 месяцев назад

I agree stylistically odo would be good but don't know if odo's style of talking when hyli inta would help and vetheo was doomer in excel with the vibe in that team soo hessitant on that one to be fair

@PayamRPooya 5 месяцев назад

one thing that i dont think got talked about enough this split about G2 is Duffman, Since he Joined the team they beat T1 ( in showmatch but still ) and more importantly they have cleaned up their mid game beacuse we all knew that G2 can get a lead early and run with it, but every westerner got worried when in international stage G2 didnt get the early lead, and the fact that i am attributing this to Duffman isn't just a guess , since in pre and post game interviews all the players have mentioned and gave the credit for this new macro strategies to Duffman whole throughout the split, and even Dylan Falco gave the credit for it to him at Finals Pre and Post match interviews .

@Cheezperson 5 месяцев назад

Good show

@broefkip 5 месяцев назад

Something the haters never acknowledge, Thorin just says it straight when catches an L. A difference with Thorin, though, if he predicted something wrong, he will discuss why and learn from it. Something a lot of others seem incapable of...

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

What? You havent watched Thorin if you think he actually learns when he catches an L xD. Same as he doesnt say it straight... thats why he has refused to acknowledge that Perkz has been downright bad since leaving NA or that Upset is difficult to work with which is why his teams often fail... Thorin is one of the most bypassed people in the scene.

@broefkip 4 месяца назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 Did you not watch this episode or did you just not listen to it?

@PeoplePleaser578 4 месяца назад

@@broefkip Yes I did. Thorin literally never learns when he catches an L… he will always double and triple down on them eventually for “content”.

@Strayed199 5 месяцев назад

It is kind of funny that Thorin’s beloved Rekkles-lite just can’t catch a break. Poor dude is cursed.

@slendian 5 месяцев назад

You could solve almost all GX's problems by buying crownie. It'd give peach an actual lane to play througj

@TEK0701 4 месяца назад

i5 ?

@stamatisarvanitidis2430 5 месяцев назад

2018, 2019 and 2020 perkz was a great laner either mid or bot the guy was smurfing. He looks like he doesn't want to play anymore.

@AdmiralMug 5 месяцев назад

respect Reeker

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Reeker just didnt fit with Mad Lions or Elyoya.

@Wizardi1111 5 месяцев назад

Heretics played through bot the whole split, besides the top side just being bad, the problem was also Flakked isn't good at snowballing the leads he gets, so Jankos just wasted his time ganking there, all he did was neutralize the enemy bot, but it didn't give his own team any win conditions. Flakked needs to actually try being the weakside for once on this team. Because the solo lanes need all the help they can get, unfortunately. Wunder needs to get his ass off weakside tanks and start playing carries, most of the top laners have left him in the dust with their pocket picks that carry the whole game. And Perkz just doesn't do anything, he needs help to get ahead, because he does play better with a lead like in the first 2 weeks and can make some plays and lead the game somewhat. Heretics looked good on scaling comps at the start, but by the end it didn't work anymore, every team just shit on them in the early game. Hopefully they've changed strategies for next split.

@matteofurlanello1016 5 месяцев назад

they would not be 10th? i mean they would legit be top 3/4 in lck rn

@matthewskullblood9778 5 месяцев назад

Are you retarded?

@TheBritishPoro 5 месяцев назад

G2? They'd almost definitely make playoffs. They could lose to anyone on the West side of the bracket for sure. I'd probably put them 4th, but I could honestly see them coming 6th. This is probably the best top 6 we've seen in LCK for quite some time.

@nikhildeodhar143 5 месяцев назад

@@TheBritishPoroI think they would clear Damwon and KDF in the current form of those teams, and KT *if* they catch them on a bad day. Monte puts G2 as fringe top 4 in LCK, which seems fair...

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Its funny that in LoL we still have this idea that any Eastern team is better than Any Western team. G2 are easily top4/5 in LCK - They might not take down T1, GenG but they could take down KDF and DK, hell they could probably beat KT given the level of inconsistency they have shown as a team. Teams like FearX would be cleared by G2.

@matthewskullblood9778 5 месяцев назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 they are not top 4 or 5 in lpl or lck

@williamrupnick5861 5 месяцев назад

Woooo zaboutine lets go

@slrjcismyrock2213 5 месяцев назад

Hey FNC, why don’t you get Trymbi over Jun and that frees up an import slot to sign TheShy. Wouldn’t Caedrel love that 😂 Imagine TheShy, Razork, Humanoid, and Noah and Trymbi play weak side. There’s your rival to beat G2 and you could also get something done internationally. Caedrel will be the next guest, in Spring.

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Oh god no... You really want 2 omega inconsistent ego players on one team? Like how would a roster cope with TheShy running it in half the games and Humanoid running it in the other half... Nah if you are gonna have TheShy you need a more consistent midlaner who can play it safe, then you put all resources into Toplane to stop him from running it. You'd essentially need a team like BDS - Stable midlane and Botlane with a toplaner you let pick mental things and dominate the 1v1. Fnatic cant play like that with Humanoid on the team.

@busherinolol1693 5 месяцев назад

Wasn't Perkz the best midlaner in the first split of 2020?

@cepheus9856 5 месяцев назад

Nah, Perkz was in the best team, Nemesis individually played better in the regular season. Perkz played supportive for the botlane as they had Caps. He even keeps complimenting Caps as adc cause of his insane dmg numbers, like Caps was playing like a LPL rookie adc, who might have position mistakes but really monster dpm/dps.

@nikolakrastev8880 5 месяцев назад

Thanatos to FNC. Make it happen.

@MidsummerNightScream 5 месяцев назад

there is a pleth-aura of LEC players XD

@TripleD94 5 месяцев назад

I would love to see Thorin argue against his own point for Upset 1:47:02 when Rekkles were playing "for KDA" and the difference he sees between those 2 scenarios.

@DarkorbitForever12 5 месяцев назад

Just watch the games. Rekkless was playing for kda in situations where he could actually do something.

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

@@DarkorbitForever12 Apparently you didn't actually watch the games xD. You just believe whatever Duncan "I am proffessional Rekkles hater and will curse him till my dying breath" shields says. Also imagine saying that Rekkles played for KDA and Upset doesnt when Upset will actively be farming Jungle camps miles away from his team because he doesnt want to join in a fight.

@tinecchi3648 5 месяцев назад

How about.. Alphari to fnatic? He still is a top tier laner And his biggest problem was converting his leads. Humanoid and razork take care of macro. And also the top side looks crazy. Alphari humanoid razork

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Ah yes another player who has no clue what to do outside of Lane - Fnatics legendary Macro that has them trading Baron Vision for Inhibitor. Fnatic thrive off skill diffing people, Humanoid and Razork are not Macro gods and tbh their Macro in a lot of games has been downright awful.

@tinecchi3648 5 месяцев назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 Yeah it hasn’t been clean but I also feel like the narrative for Alphari has been overblown a bit. I don’t really blame him for what happened in tl. No top laner can convert his Leads when tactical is perma malphite ultieing in. Bit unfair to me to then still go with this narrative and then he joined vitality and anyone who has been keeping track of perkz roasters since he is back in eu should be careful to blame anyone else but perkz xD Kinda crazy that at least 10 players perkz swapped and benched and kicked from the team all perform better before and after playing with him. But yes if Alphari is literally the same he was 3 or 4 years ago it’s not the best signing

@bradanater1 5 месяцев назад

thought it was raz from the eyes in the thumbnail . thank god its not

@Monotheist137 5 месяцев назад

Btw Perkz were bitchslapping everyone in mid while Caps were adc for one split.

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Btw, that was 4 years ago before he even left to NA and it was a short term change, Perkz really has not been that guy for years which is Zaboutines point.

@steliosp1770 5 месяцев назад

The way I see it Fnatic have 2 options if they actually wanna give it a shot at having a chance of doing anything; 1. sign alphari keep jun (assuming alphari has not had enough of pro play/league and actually wants to play) 2. bring back rekkles at support and sign Thanatos. so I agree with Zaboutine in that sense. edit: the mental gymnastics from thorin to defend upset when he used to shit on rekkles for the exact same thing years ago when rekkles was even mvp of the split ICANT. FWIW He s right, but the exact same concepts applied for Rekkles back in the day is my point.

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Neither of those options fix Fnatics consistency problems or their egregious Macro issues. You can change around Toplane and botlane 600 million times and none of it will matter because their key issue will never be addressed, which is Fnatics coordination is laughably bad and their Macro which is supposedly controlled by their "god tier midlaner" is non existent. Why do people think that just bringing in another Rookie or another player who has 0 Macro sense is actually going to fix the issue. Not to mention you could not have Alphari and Humanoid on the same team... too many ego's, too many conflicting ethos.

@PayamRPooya 5 месяцев назад

FNC need two important changes for it to be back on it's glory days 1: Change the Coach : i am dumbfounded how someone can go from coaching 10th team of LCS to Coaching 2nd Team of LEC, where else do u see this happen ? to go with your example, in what world can Coach of Portland Timbers starts to headcoach ManU and eveybody goes , yeah we alright with that -_- , So first of all Nighmare(share) out . 2: FNC needs a Toplaner : it's embarrassing that the best showing that current roaster of FNC has had was in last LEC playoffs, where Wunder was subbing in for Oscarinin. even though the last series against MAD was only FNC game that Oscar wasnt the obvious issue , still the skill gap between he and his team limits FNC play making immensely . and this kinda problem shows itself more then ever when LEC is becoming such a Top centric region this splits with BB , Merwin ,Toxic Darius Main and ... if FNC solves this Two important issues , it easily can regain it's place in LEC .

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

1. Nightshare is Coach because of Humanoid. He is friends with Humanoid so therefore he gets to be coach. 2. This constant need to change everyone around the things that have clearly been the issue over the last 2 years is so hilarious. Oscar is mechanically very good, anyone who thinks otherwise hasnt watched him that much. He had a rough playoffs but people acting like he is just bad is hilarious. But lets swap players again and hope that this fixes the problems that have been floating around this team for 2 years. The biggest problem in Fnatic is and always will be Humanoid - Firstly, he and Razork have no idea how to play together, they might like each other but you can see in game a very clear division in playstyle that leads to this disjointed shotcalling. Secondly he is woefully inconsistent, people seem to forget that every other game he is either running it or making beyond stupid plays. Thirdly his attitude is abysmal, he activelly has said he doesnt like the game and only plays it for a paycheck... Humanoids entire attitude and inconsistent playstyle has permeated this team for the last 2 years... yet all people do is go "Right if we swap botlane, itll change" "Right if we swap toplane, itll change" "Right if we just give them time, itll work". It never works. It never will.

@gameplayerbr4962 5 месяцев назад

Imagine praising Bo this much when this guy has had 8 games with 4 deaths, 8 games with 5 deaths, 6 games with 6 deaths, 4 games with 7 deaths, 2 games with 8 deaths, 1 game with 9 deaths and 1 game with 11(!!!) deaths. While having what, two insane games against 113 and that's it? Oh but he's the best soloq player ever! He was undefeated with Doinb, the guy who makes every jungler of his look good! Seems totally normal to int this much!

@nikhildeodhar143 5 месяцев назад

As Monte (I think) put it in Summoning Insight, Bo is the kind of player who runs it down if he tilts. So while that IS a flaw, looking at deaths is not a good measure IMO. He was the best jungler in Winter of last year, and arguably so in Spring as well, until the series against BDS where Sheo gapped him. Then he started running it down as the VIT team started falling apart. Even this split, I enjoyed the Yike-Bo battle in the KC-G2 game. I think both were going toe to toe in the early game.

@TheB00mscape 5 месяцев назад

Maybe look at the gameplay and not at a number, hope it helps brother

@DarkorbitForever12 5 месяцев назад

Do you watch league of legends or numbers in an excel sheet?

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

"I looked at stats and that tells me everything I need to know" - DoinB made every jungler look good? What you mean Tian? Who looks pretty damn good without him xD. This is so disingenuous, literally watch 5 seconds of Kcorp or Vitality in Summer and you can clearly see that Bo is not the issue, when you are playing engage champions and your team is refusing to follow... you are going to die A LOT.

@mareksicinski3726 5 месяцев назад

1:57 eh if you’re integrated and have a proper view of others and urself u don’t ned to be

@carlosa5473 5 месяцев назад

I will correct something about MadLions. This is not a team built around elyoya. It is actually built around Melzhet's ideas on how to play the game and what pieces are willing to work in the same direction and with the same mentality. Of course, it needed elyoya's approval sort to speak since he was the one in the LEC and Melzhet in ERL, but here in Spain we mostly acknowledge this as a Melzhet project

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

What people mean by "Its built around Elyoya" is the majority of the game is run through Yoya, obviously this is Melzhets project but its also Elyoyas project. He wanted Supa and Alvaro (And in fact said this to other teams), he controls the pace of the game for MAD. Its all run by Elyoya.

@carlosa5473 5 месяцев назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 i mean of course, elyoya is the one piloting the champ. But the macro ideas are fully on melzhet and how he translates them into the players. Instead on focusing on full vod reviews, he does 1on1 vod reviews with each player explaining how esch has to play a map state, lane or objective fight. And yes, he is that good.

@Zeroyue622 5 месяцев назад

14:56 ya, remember JDG have to ban darius again adam at world

@zsorens4570 5 месяцев назад

I'm not buying Myrwn doing anything against Asian teams internationally. His picks were unconventional but none of them warped any of the games crazily and the team did have a bit of an easier road to finals.

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Yes because his Darius was a terror in scrims and they hadnt played against it, not to mention hard countered half of the toplaners they played.

@farcydebop7982 5 месяцев назад

Zab complaining about imports stealing LEC spots from EU talents, has to be the most ironic and hilarious one, just as him featuring in this show in place of Dom.

@prematurebean7147 5 месяцев назад

Can you explain why, sorry if it’s a stupid question

@farcydebop7982 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine was heavily criticized for importing EU players in LCS instead of hiring local talent. Dom, as his most vocal detractor, did everything to destroy his reputation, contributing to have him fired from IMT and making sure he would never find a coaching position again. In the end, seeing Zab in this show sitting in Dom's place, is kinda ironic.

@nufasniyamathulla6479 5 месяцев назад

Right? There is no way he can just say that after importing Eika. Or at the very least he should try and cover for himself with some kind of reasoning. Budget or whatever. Still wouldn't make sense cause they could have easily gone with NA talent for the same budget and it would still be better cause youre investing in the local scene like he unironically brings up here.

@Zaboutine 5 месяцев назад

@@farcydebop7982 you're making up a lot of things there, where you're correct is that dom was heavily critical of me importing 2 EU players. All the rest about never finding a coaching position is more due to me not looking for it because I got married in NA, decided to stay there where most of my available options would have been in ERL after my results in LCS. No offense, just making sure weird storylines inbetween me and dom don't get repeated.

@farcydebop7982 5 месяцев назад

@@Zaboutine Unfortuneately in this day and age, the truth is what people think happened. And because this has not been publicly addressed at the time, it stays the correct narrative. I understand the link to private life, but for everybody else, story ends where public knowledge is. If it wasn't the case, it would be a too easy card to play anytime one wants to look good in retrospect.

@BigFatty 5 месяцев назад

Howe is Thorin the grown old man still making videos dissing kids playing video games. I dont get it

@blami8 5 месяцев назад

It's called esports and it's about competitive video games

@user-hj4vw5kf5h 5 месяцев назад

Zaboutine is great but he really hates Saken lol.

@Zaboutine 5 месяцев назад

???

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

He doesnt hate Saken... He is dissapointed by him, which you would be if this guy was ranked as one of the best ERL midlaners and arguably one of the best ERL mids of all time and the guy cant even land basic abilities.

@inigorey8733 5 месяцев назад

Cabramaravilla>>>>> all english speakers "analysts"

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

Cabramavilla didnt even know Dom was in a final and is a clown who ranks all spanish players in the league as the best in the league and everyone else as bad compared to them.

@inigorey8733 5 месяцев назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 dont compare s2 to s14 pls

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

@@inigorey8733 Not comparing... Cabramavilla was just flat out wrong. But hey its hard I guess for a Spanish analyst to actually be unbiased... Especially when they rank every Spanish player as the best in the league and best in their roles. The guy who claims all criticism of Mad Lions is because people were losing bets against them? Even though a lot of those criticisms went back to before the season even started... Yes such a great analyst. Its like taking Ibai as a source of unbiased analysis when his comments are "VIVA ESPANA!!!" and talking about how MDK are the best team in the LEC.

@inigorey8733 5 месяцев назад

@@PeoplePleaser578 *VIVA ESPAÑA

@PeoplePleaser578 5 месяцев назад

@@inigorey8733 Its because my keyboard wont let me put tilde above the N so I had to type it out without it xD edit: (Apparently can do it if I type in a certain code to get Ñ)