Yeah, I only seen a true love triangle a hand full of times. But it can go into the misunderstanding trope. Girl A is into Boy, Boy is into Girl B, Girl B is into Girl A, but Girl A thinks Girl B is into Boy. Those plots almost never last that long. Or them ending up as a trouple.
My most hated trope is the abusive, manipulative 'Alpha' male who burns down kingdoms and has shown no redeeming qualities other than a sad backstory who just needs a good woman to be there for him.
a lot of the times the misunderstanding also come from someone assuming things about the other person and the situation can be fixed by a simple conversation
It would be nice if the misunderstanding was because of poor word choice or because of a character flaw, instead of just the writer wanting cheap drama
Okay I don't really read webtoons, but I damn well know that misunderstanding trope be everywhere and one point got hella annoying. Like, yeah you're seeing what you're seeing, your man's kissing another woman, but don't see his ass struggling to get away?
I find it ironic that the "historical" tag is always about a vaguely european setting with clothing and centralization of the 1800s but its still medievel, and of course dont forget magic. I just want to see a webtoon about the roman empire man or atleast somewehere actually in history because there is so much good stories you can make with the lore of our own world
plss southeast asian history is soo underrated especially I'm from there..I rlly want to make a horror/thriller story about my history especially bc witchcraft is still rlly popular and commonly used here I'm not good at art though ┐( ∵ )┌
The names Nil and Pas do have meaning and aren’t stupid. Nil means nothing and Pas means everything. The first interaction they had is Nil being insecure of his name and saying he will change it, and Pas said “don’t change it, just let me give you half of me”. So clearly there’s a reason they have these names
Imagine saying that to a person you meet for the first time, and giving your characters non-catchy names that wouldn't be used by any parents in any era just for that punchline
What those are real names, Edith and Rigelhof are REAL names. Dyslexia got you down bad. You can say the combination is dumb or you don't like names, but then that's just raw personal preference.
plus, nil and pas do sound unconventional but it isn’t for no reason and is explained in the FIRST chapter nil means nothing and pas is everything just because a name isn’t hella generic doesn’t mean it’s a bad or fake name
So I can't speak for the other names mentioned but Suna Choi is a Korean name for the KOREAN transmigrated character. She is rarely ever referred to by this name. Pretty sure it's only mentioned on occasion when she's reminding herself who she is and in the VERY beginning. As for the name Edith Rigelhof, I'm assuming it's the last name Rigelhof that's got you tongue tied. It's a name from British and Irish origin and since most backdrops to villainess stories are European it makes sense she's have a name like that. If it's Edith that's got you in a tizzy then all I can say is it's also an English name so...
Yeah Irish person here and I genuinely didn’t bat an eye at either name here. I don’t know where her confusion was coming from especially since she said she understood if names were from a certain country/region. There’s some webtoons with actually made up names so I thought it was strange that she chose real life names for her example??
exactly! i like when creators actually try find unique names with interesting meanings or different cultural backgrounds which suit the character and add to the setting. like do you just want everyone to have the most common white names like jack and emily? are american white names the only valid names ever? are european names not valid? are no names from any other culture ever not valid? at that point its not even a bad webtoon trope anymore thats just being really bad with names
I mean, I hate "dumb" names too, but I'm very skeptical of "well I just meant AMERICAN comics"...like my dude, we've got Korean and Japanese names here too, not even mentioning all the times I hear people complain about minority names for having different structures than English ones
Yeah, that kind of irked me a bit to. Some people just have very unique or uncommon names. That doesn’t make them outlandish just because it’s not a basic American one.
it’s so stupid they brought up the name SUNA, that’s a name that originated from several Asian countries what the hell, same thing with the name nil, and even edith because that’s an extremely normal name.
I agree with everything BUT the name one. My friend is called Edith it's not a weird name. I also know a Nathaniel, a Nathaël, a Thibaud, a Khadija. None of the name you mentionned seemed odd. I thought you would say something alike to Olarifiaraneta or something, but even then, it would depend of the context. Like I wouldn't mind in a native,s story like Kukum, Qimmik, tiohtiáke or any other book really with a different culture or from another country even.
Imagine meeting someone with any name that's not in the top 50 list of the year and going 'mmm wtf i can't even pronounce that... I'll just call you something else' like what is it with people and names
@@aff77141 Honestly if I had a hard to pronounce name I would prefer someone mispronouncing my name but still trying to say it than just straight up decide they're gonna call me something entirely different, the former is just them not exactly knowing the language well which is fine, the latter is them just basically saying "nah, you're not even worth the trouble of trying to remember a non-standard name"
My name is Kalista and the amount of people who opt to call me a completely different name because mine is too hard is wild! I even started going by Kali instead and they still struggle with it 😂 people are weird about names I don’t get it 😅
I really thought you were going to go after really ridiculous made up names and instead it was just picking on "Edith" and non-western ethnic names 💀 Webtoons feature characters named "Seria", "Carcel" (awful sounding enough, but on top of that it means JAIL in spanish), Blondina, and -- brace yourself -- "Callian de Zeppel Youthveldia". One of the worst tropes I hate is when the romantic lead is just a straight up abuser/bully and we're supposed to feel sorry for him anyway.
I love the story where the MC is named Blondina but I refuse to say her name because…you know… so I always use her nickname, so good story but the name is….yeah
I was thinking of blondina when they brought it up, an actual goofy name. idk why they listed only relatively normal names when it's so easy to find bad ones.
it is pretty bad though, they brought up the name suna which is a normal name that originates in several asian countries, normal ass name and then they proceed to go “THIS NAME IS SOOOOO WEIRD AND ITS NOT REAL” same thing with saying they would call nil and pas neil and Paul because “THE NAMES ARE TOO WEIRD FOR ME” that’s so aggressively white american.
it's bad. It's like american is the centre of the world and god forbids you have a non-american name like Suna. (Well, Edith is also a normal English-language names. So I don't see her points either)
@@ranchustars3050 ok yeah i was just tryna be nice lol 💀the neil and paul thing really made me comment this because nil and pas are NORMAL ASS NAMES (i still find this funny)
Although I agree on made-up unpronounceable names, the ones you mentionned seem easy to pronounce! And it's ok to be a bit creative with names (if it makes sense in the story's context). Real names can be so overused they become boring (no example, to not hurt anyone...). However, I fully agree on everything else! Love triangles seem to be widely hated, so I suppose they're only used by new writers who think they're being original (they have to start somewhere, I guess).
Honestly, I have to agree with this. If I search up a character on Pinterest/Google, I don't want to have to type the series's whole title next to the character's name when I'm trying to search them up
I figured she would focus on the last name, which is *actually* ridiculous. None of the names in that section were that weird to be besides that though tbh
@@numbuhbeeit is not ridiculous, just uncommon. there is a Canadian writer with that surname, and also a webpage compiling real members of the Rigelhof family.
Yes, the names in the webtoon Stare Down mean something. For example, Nil means zero or nothing at all. And I'm sorry if this comes off as rude but the names 'trope' seems more of a pet peeve than anything else.
It is indeed rude. And trying to 'fix' the name Pas into Paul doesn't sit well with me. There are a lot of bad names in webtoon, but she talked about these instead?
honestly the whole name thing in this video was rather silly than something I'd call "worst" trope. if a character's name was "Toshwaquobichidu", then I would understand the call out, but short names you've never heard of before or uncommon, aren't really that big of a deal to remember. Especially made up names, if they sound reasonable, makes it easier browsing that specific character. like take the names Suletta or Miorine from The Witch from Mercury.
I didn't even read that webtoon and it's pretty obvious to me they are not just weird variations of Neil and Paul, I find it pretty disrespectful/Anglocentric to imply that you shouldn't use names like Nil. When I heard "weird names" I expected the examples to be some common names spelled in an overly complicated way, with more than 7 letters (though even then I'm not mad about it as long as they have a nickname), not those pretty simple examples. There's also examples of fully fictional names you could criticize for being hard to read (like many names in the Wheel of Time), but that's very rarely a flaw with the story anyway. Frankly when I'm choosing character names, I think of their pronunciation mostly in my native language or in the language used in the narrative, even if I'm writing in English at that moment. If non-English natives can deal with weird English pronunciation of names, English natives should be able to handle non-English sounding names too.
@@vuivraalbastra exactly! it just sounds she wants you to cater to only an white-american audience and forget that there are sooo many cultures with unique names. i also found it weird when they almost assumed that its targeted to an american audience if its not korean or japanese. like why should everyone have such a boring common white name like emma or robert for the sake of americans. there are so many "uncommon" names even in european culture like they mentioned "edith" which also suited the setting of the story; and if thats enough to get you confused then imagine all the other cultures in the world. also as webtoon grows so big its important to make characters stand out and not forgettable so its makes perfect sense why you would chose unique names or even make your own names by doing actual research. its also just a creative way to show a characters background or personality without even doing much.
I agree with everything except the name part because all those examples were really easy to pronounce, it's just that Americans struggle with pronouncing anything that doesn't sound like their country's names.
literally...like do you want everyone to have the most basic white names like jack and emily like bro i will forget who is who at that point. i like when creators actually try find unique names with interesting meanings or different cultural backgrounds. also if it's not set in korea or japan its not just automatically set in america
Also even if a name is hard to pronounce I don't see how that's a bad thing. It doesn't have to be easy. Not like the author is going to come through the page and kill your first born if you mispronounce it.
just commenting something, making fun of the names suna edith nil and pas for not being normally is extremely… immature? like would you prefer all the characters to be named john robinson and emily addams? are you aware different cultures have different names? are you aware edith is a real normal name?? suna is an actual name that originates from several cultures. nil means nothing or zero, it’s just a clever name someone chose to make their character stand out, don’t know the meaning for pas but i don’t see why it would annoy you so badly you would call them neil and paul because “the names are so weird and not names i know!” if this comes off as rude im not really sorry if you want to talk about bad tropes you need to have better reasoning than “i think this too weird”, there are better ways to express you don’t like weird made up names without using names from different cultures as your “weird made up name” examples.
Agree. Immature and just showing a lack of exposure to different cultures or even history of her own culture. And I don't understand. If she knew how to search names on google, she probably also realised that those are real names, including the surname Rigelhof.
Lol you 100% had me until you threw in that last word. Maybe don't be so quick to associate her with an extremely accusatory word and with no build up either. That comes across as bigoted and judgemental instead of actual criticism.
@@superderfmen i am not saying they are xenophobic, there’s not enough proof i am not here to ruin careers or anything, but their arguments just remind me of xenophobia, there are better ways to express you don’t like weird made up names without using names from different cultures as your “weird made up name” examples. i will edit the original to make that more clear i kind of wrote it in a fit of rage being honest.
I once read a webtoon with 10 chapters of strong plot, well written characters and a clear goal… only for the next 30 to be wholesome fluff where the female character is suddenly a blushing mess who runs off with handsome man no.4! Girl you were plotting your sisters death and had a deadline, what happened!!!!
Unfortunately, this seems to be the case for most "reincarnated"/"revenge"/"villain" webcomics... The characters start off strong with good motivations, but it ends up devolving into boring romance as the character either takes forever to accomplish their schemes, or even forgets about them entirely. I get that some people like reading gushy stuff like that, and even I really enjoy some relationships (especially if they are good representation and overall wholesome), but I HATE it when webtoons which are advertised with such a premise (not involving romance) turn to take that route. There are already enough romance webtoons without ruining so many others too! It sometimes feels like it's impossible to have either a story or characters who aren't completely overtaken by romance in this category. Any characters who don't feel romantic or sexual attraction to others are almost never allowed to be regular people or part of the main cast; these characters are almost always aliens or psychopaths who "aren't human enough" to experience those types of feelings, even though there are numerous people around the globe who share that experience. It's very othering to see not only the real world, but almost all the media which reflects it, be centered around romantic and sexual relationships. For others who are tired of this, a few of the good webtoons I've found are "Villain to Kill", "Sable House" (although that does have some blushing and talk of romance, it's still pretty plot-driven), and "Ember Knight" :D Not only are they amazing webtoons in their own right for people who enjoy fantasy, (in part because they aren't nearly as stereotypical as some others, though "Villain to Kill" has a similar reincarnation premise), but they don't get ruined by romance!
I READ THAT ONE, I WAS SO DISAPPOINTED AFTER AND FRUSTRATEDD, like she keeps saying it's all for her sister when she doesn't even visit or text her, unless we are talking about different webtoons, in that case it must be the kind of story where the author gets a stroke a genius while living their life and then making the webtoon with no proper advancement to the idea
@@Nari_Trovi Is that the one where the girl wanted yellow sneakers as a child? (I can’t remember the name of anyone and anything only the yellow sneakers) And she was like broke as a child and turns out her dad was rich and blah blah? I liked that one but like GIRL TALK TO YOUR SISTER PLS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SHE ISN’T DEAD IN THIS LIFE
I feel the most likely explanation for why the story never advances is because many of these authors are afraid to lose their golden goose and don't want to risk starting a new comic with no audience. These tropes are kind of a signal when the author is trying to artificially extend the life of their comic. It's like perpetually watching filler episodes for a TV show.
@@Jamazed if my book ever publishes I think I will have this problem. Not because I don't want to start a new story with no audience, but I don't want to leave the characters
Hilaria is spanish, comes from Latin Hilarius. It's pronounced EE-LA-RIA (the R is strong). We have in italian Ilaria and in english you have Hillary, from the same root.
Edith Rigelhof sounds like a normal name to me. Of course, Edith and Rigelhof are not common names in the modern English-speaking community. But the setting is not the modern world, but a more archaic European-inspired setting. I actually met professors and academics at the university with names similar to that, so I don't know what your problem is. And I don't mind the name "Hillaria" either. It's a real name with real people having that name, just not common enough for google to recognize as a spelling variant. You do realize that if everyone is named like an average American gen Z highschool classroom, it would be boring or not consistent with the worldbuilding, right? This is not to say bad naming doesn't exist in Webtoon. It does, you just didn't pick them. The princess's jewel webtoon has that one person with the surname Blackgoldrose or something similar, which is both unrealistic (not the main problem) and cringe (the main problem).
The names you picked as an example are pretty normal to me 😭 in no way are they hard and i have seen weirder ones (excluding like actual irl foreign names such as chinese ones. I mean made up fantasy ones) The misunderstanding thing though, definitely agree. Theres ways to make misunderstandings work, theres characters where that fits more, like teens would probably have that happen more than neurotypical adults, whereas sometimes neurodivergent adults such as myself do frequently encounter misunderstandings and may struggle to sort it out, and sometimes there are very jealous people that could misinterpret somebody doing certain things as cheating, but most webtoons do not understand how to make this situation actually work. I think the point of love triangles typically is just to drag it out and i understand that is quite annoying because usually the triangles are usually bad too. And very often the choice is between something along the lines of 1) popular guy who probably doesnt even know you and might hate humanity 2) nice guy who likes you, cares for you and loves humanity. Or well, at least one of the choices tends to be problematic if not both Cant really comment on the missing each other thing because i guess i either dont encounter it often or dont register it As for the last one... it depends on what it is. Like im mildly bothered if they do this "they almost kissed" thing and even more if they do it more than once. And also if this thing that almost happened just vanishes suddenly. Like if thats how you end the chapter, then acknowledge it in the next one. You dont even have to touch on that for the rest of the series after that. But tbh it is very important what this almost happened thing is and what disrupted it. Getting almost hit by a car and then getting saved - i wouldnt be bothered. Youre in a battle and suddenly somebody appears jumps in and helps - i dont usually mind that. Do these things make sense? Are they realistic? Nah but thats the great thing about fiction. And if the characters are not getting to kiss each other at least make the thing that disrupts them make sense as to why it would even make them stop doing it. And do not repeat that over and over
True, those names are pretty normal. And there are actual people, both modern and historical, with names including Edith, Rigelhof and Hillaria. Go to any university and chances are you will see a ton of names like that. I don't understand what problems she has with those names.
I was thinking about the misunderstanding thing, like sometimes it bothers me when it is very obviously just being used to draw out the story but I also tend to easily misinterpret things my family says every day so it's really not that unbelievable some people are just not as good at communicating as others and it could be for a number of reasons, I think as long as it has an actual purpose to add more depth to the story and characters there's nothing wrong with it imo
The Trope I dislike the most is where the male lead is suuper protective and doesn't communicate their feelings because their so "stoic". It's just so annoying seeing how protective they get
For the Uncommon Names one, i started off agreeing, but when you listed examples I actually found them kind of cute… I also prefer memorable names to generic ones. I could also see possible inspirations for some names you listed: 3:13 nil and pas may be a reference to n’est il pas, or n’est ce pas, meaning “it is not” in French. Hilaria is the feminine form of Hilarius, an ancient Latin name meaning “cheerful, or happy.” Slight misspellings of names are pretty common - most names are misspellings of other root names. Especially in a victorian time period, Latin names were in-fashion seeing as classical names were more popular, so it checks out. EDIT: Funnily enough, the name that you replaced Hilaria with - Hillary - is actually derived from Hilaria anyways :,D It’s a modern form of Hilaria! I forget names on the regular, but I can’t help that lmao. I like it when names hint to some part of the character or story - so nil and pas were charming to me :)
Honestly, my least favorite trope that almost nobody talks about is the embarrassment trope. Like when the main character has to (or just does for some reason) something SUPER weird and so embarrassing that the reader gets serious secondhand embarrassment. That stuff HURTS me to the point that I have to put Webtoon down!
tbh I would disregard the whole different name stuff. Its funny when its not typical, when you name someone "Paul" for me most of the time its just. A guy. Somewhere. Pas? Mysterious, unique lets gOOOOOO so yeah I am from people that don't mind it too much lol
Yeah got weirdest out when she said Suna Choi and Edith Rigelhof were "Mary Sue/I'm so special" names. Nah ones just Korean and the other's English. Maybe Rigelhof is a bit unique but it's not strange given the context. (It's from English/Irish origin)
@@mirror2760 Unless a character's name is like "Pawraurrd Niwvuezz " (I once saw someone name their character similarly to my example), or another nonsensical name, then it should be fine. Many so called "foreign" names can actually be pronounced more easily then one might think. Take the name "Bellinor" for example. It's a name that comes from French or Italian (not sure which one), and it is easy to pronounce. It contains sounds that exist in several languages and it has only 3 syllables. It's a cool name, and it means "a beautiful and dark person".
I had to drop Down to Earth when the alien girl went through the MC's closet, after he explicitly told her NOT TO, and when he got upset with her, she starts crying, and the MC apologies, (he shouldn't!!! she violated his trust!!!!) and the webtoon treats him as a bad guy
Wtf??? I haven’t read it so I don’t have context, but that’s so entitled to act like the victim when someone just tells you off for breaking their boundaries and violating privacy.
3:10 I read stare down, and there's actually a meaning behind the main characters being named that. I felt the same way as u did at first, but after reading it and getting some more context, it starts to make sense. If u give it a chance, u get used to it. I would say the reason why, but I dont wanna spoil anything in case someone decides to read it
Hey, I just thought it would be worth mentioning that there’s nothing wrong with having names that are ‘out of the ordinary’. Especially in the comic ‘Stare Down’ where the author had mentioned that Nil’s name means nothing/zero and Pas’s name means ‘everything/all’ if I remember correctly (it might have played a part in the story as well, but it’s been a while since I read it)
@@IamEscBoy It does seem like she’s dyslexic, so it makes sense for her to have trouble with it, but last I checked, dyslexia doesn’t give you a bad attitude and entitlement for all names to be simplified for your convenience. If you have to give them nicknames to help you read, that’s fine, but don’t call it a bad trope.
I dunno, I grew up with an uncommon name myself and knew people with common names but spelled differently.Where I live, a single person's name can have had originated from three separate countries. Unless the name's all consonants or mostly consonants, it wouldn't be a problem.
All names until now 3:37 are normal names i can easily pronounce, the first girl is asian and reincarnates as European high class, idk what happens in the 2nd but not like it's hard to say or remember, idk why you got such a problem with names listed here
@@hanabishaven Exactly! My name is Brooklyn, but it has different spellings such as: Brooklynne, Brooklynn, Brookelynn, Brookelynne, Brooklyne. Those names are not all the variations by the way. All of the variations are in use, and have been for a long time!
Cuz she's American and I suspect she doesn't speak another foreign language because her linguistic skills seem pretty bad if she has a hard time pronouncing Hillaria or Edith
You may think that you're preventing misunderstandings by clearly communicating with your spouse, but I'll bet it's still possible for the ninja hiding in the bushes to get the wrong idea about both of you and he can't really ask you for clarification without giving away his position.
It's harsh to compare free independant webcomics to a fully produced anime at the end there, but yeah. I've seen some absolutely ridiculous names, even in writing circles online. People either put way too much thought into it whihc eventually comes off as odd, or they're just regular everyday names. It's almost like there is no inbetween lol
I hate to admit it but I am a silly name creator. We got Anne Candles, Ash Silverthorn, Jared Ethan Blaze, Wisteria Foxglove, and someone who had a normal name but changed it to Cumulonimbus, all in the same story 💀
CUMULONIMBUS. They changed their name to Cumulonimbus?! I love this person already. Also, I love saying and typing that name over and over. What is the name of the story Cumulonimbus is in? You got me sold on one word.
I mean... I kinda like your names. Obviously it depends on the type of story, but even the most ridiculous sounding names can be a great pick if they fit the setting and the character. I think your names exude a lot of personality without even seeing the characters themselves, so they have the potential to be good names.
Least favourite trope will always be when the character we’re supposed to like (like the love interest or MC) is written as a snobbish jerk that’s supposed to be ‘#quirky’ when really it’s just annoying
i actually think some of my characters are victims of the snobbish jerk to a degree 😂 although i try to play it more as a one-off bad impression thing for one person and a characteristic another has to work through
Yeah like it's basically "I am very annoying, i am very full of myself, i don't care about you, i don't care about anyone other than me because i am me" Mc: omg that's so adorable i love your personality please be mine
Going off your “An American Tail” tangent, Don Bluth purposefully added those scenes into the film in order to tug at the heartstrings of those invested in the story. So the frustration you feel towards the characters being stupid was intentional on the author’s part. It’s the same principle which Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock use in their films for add empathy, humor, or suspense.
Edith is a real name xD and a name that was popular in victorian area so it actually fits high fantasy romance genre. Nils too. (Pas is not, at least not that i am aware of). Yeah misunderstanding trop can be annoying especially for me when it’s about « he doesnt love me bc original novel is like this » and it lasts for 200 chapters only being resolved at the very end. I do hate love triangle the most bc a love triangle they use IS NOT A TRIANGLE, it’s a baseless triangle. A normal triangle is A loves B who loves C and C loves A. No matter how you put it it implies LGBT themes…and this triangle they serve us is not only wrong but also avoiding on purpose a topic i would actually enjoy to read. Double malus point u.u’
Pas is not a real name, or at least not a common one. But according to some comments it may come from a french word for “not”, which would fit with the naming scheme for Nil (meaning “nothing” in english) I can also totally see Pas as a nickname for Pascal
@@DanielMacLir Yses i know i'm french xD That's why i said Pas is not, though it is possible it might exist in another language/culture i'm not aware of. Hm, I've never heard Pascal being shortened as "Pas" if it did, i suppose it would be heard with the "ss" sound at the end "Passsss" something like that?)
What I hate most about the "Love Triangle" is when the second male lead is almost ALWAYS the better match for the female lead (or vice versa), but the author insists that we have to root for the first male lead when they are the most unlikable, possessive, or boring character in the comic!
I was typing out a comment and opened Webtoon briefly and RU-vid decided to update so it disappeared 🙁 anyways basically, when I see those seemingly European extravagant/long names I don't pay much mind because I assume they're mostly from Korean authors so like it might not seem weird to them since those names aren't typical in their culture anyway. Plus different languages sound out syllables differently so it might be a tongue twister to an English speaker but if the author's primary language is different they might not see an issue with it. It reminds me of how the artist of Operation: True Love's pen name is "Dledumb" inspired by Tweedledum. It's weird to an English speaker to see/hear a word start with "dle" but it might not seem as weird to Korean speakers (*I'm assuming!* idk Korean so could be wrong)
I think you picked a horrible point to knock on Down to Earth for. "Zay" or "Zaida" is quite literally an alien, so the weird name makes sense. It's something that is unfamiliar to us, but somewhat familiar to her, so she can be more comfortable with her human-given name. Furthermore, the whole misunderstanding part is a whole part of the MC's (whose name I forgot lol) character and something the story is trying to set up as a character flaw that he will eventually grow out of. Now don't get me wrong, Down to Earth has a whole plethora of other issues that make it vastly unappealing as a narrative, but these point are just not something that it gets wrong. Also sorry for being such a sesquipedalian lol
Girl half of these points really don't make sense. Also a romance is going to be about them wanting to be together. I get that there should be more complex plots than just "i want to be with you" but down to earth does have more plot complexity than that. Also slow burn romance is it's own category and that doesn't make it boring.
Okay I'm sorry but as a POC your gripe with names just comes off as racist 😖 When you started talking about it I THOUGHT you were going to bring up the ridiculous, overly symbolic, YA fiction type of names like "Hope Brightfeather" and "Ares Wolf" and for a real example, Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way (even though she's not from a webtoon) ......instead you complained about the spelling of a common Spanish name (Hillaria)...... And then you complained about a shortened version of the name Pascal (Paz).... And then you complained about the name Nil which literally has a meaning?? Nil means ZERO NOTHING....it's just some light symbolism..... The fact that you saw those very simple (literally 3 letter) names and IMMEDIATELY "Corrected" then into "Steven" and "Paul" leaves an incredibly gross taste in my mouth. It's so anglocentric of you to say "I can't pronounce this name... It must be a bad name!!" Instead of just..... trying?????? I really want to know what you do when you meet someone with an "exotic" name irl. Do you change their name to "Jane" or "John" and refuse to even try to pronounce their actual name properly? (I'm not saying you're evil or anything. Just that the name thing is extremely culturally insensitive and gross. As someone with a very uncommon name I can imagine you saying all the nasty shit you said about the characters about irl people who don't just have white names 💀 .....It's not nice.)
It's even more mindboggling that someone focusing on "typical names" then goes on to drag... Edith. As if that is not one of the most English names ever. I think her naming bubble extends only as far as 21st century American names go.
I am about to take this _personally_ lmao! I'd say that _my_ name is in the same category as some of the example names. it's kinda like how Hillaria has a double "L" while it's typically a single "L." when my mom was looking at names, she initially misread one (a name that is not AT ALL weird, btw), corrected herself, and decided she liked her version better and went with it lol. so while it's not the usual pronunciation, it's not completely unreasonable, either. like how Cara/Kara could be care-uh or car-uh (some people associate each spelling with a different pronunciation, but there's seemingly no consensus on which is which). she made the double letter it had into just a single letter to try to distinguish it a _little_ bit, but it's otherwise spelled the same and is easily read the same, speaking from experience. the short version that I usually go by also sounds like the short version of a different typical name. I absolutely love my name, and I've gotten nothing but compliments on it. not even backhanded ones simply calling it unique, but full on joyous "that's so pretty!" I'd certainly hate for my name to miraculously pop up in a webtoon, maybe with "Caroline/*COR*aline"-esque correcting from the character (again, experience), only for it to be called "out of pocket," "comically dumb," "frilly (derogatory)," or "OC vibes." heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the typical version landed in your list, if a famous example of it had just evaded you. it's not like it's the most common name, some people seem to trip up when reading my variant as if they'd never even seen the usual variant (it's long enough that the different spelling shouldn't trip someone up _that_ much) heck, you actually ended up picking the most normal "unconventional" names lol. while they may not be the most typical western/US names, half actually sound like they fit right in with them. Cassia is an existing name, and just sounds like a variant of Cassie (and may have similar origins?) depending on how you pronounce it. the other potential pronunciations I saw seem reasonable, as well. given the surname "Choi," Suna may be a Korean name, and Edith is literally just a typical name. maybe old-fashioned and no _longer_ typical, but dude, _Anne Frank's mother_ was an Edith. Nil and Pas are a little more "out there," but they still don't sound/look too crazy (and apparently have specific meanings, given some comments I read). I'd sooner assume they just weren't _english_ names. Hillaria just looks like a slight variant of Hillary, so still fairly normal. the "misspelling" (assuming it WAS unintentional) doesn't butcher the pronunciation or readability, either. I absolutely expected names like the one picture of the expecting mother next to a blackboard of potential names that are all just typical names, but re-spelled as thoroughly as possible. of all the "I want my child/character to have a unique name" names I've seen, most of these sound/look the most like actual _names_ I'd hear from fellow U.S. white people. tl;dr: these names _really_ aren't far-fetched or difficult to read at all from a white American POV (sans literal dyslexia), and some people in real life just _have_ somewhat unique/made-up names (emphasis on "somewhat").
I like creators experimenting with names, my issue its when that goes wrong and seems like they just used random words in other languages. I LITERALLY READ SOMEONE CALLED "Lady Fellation"
Agree with everything except the names. Hilaria (even though the author spelled it incorrectly) exists, I've seen it mostly in Portuguese and Spanish granny's, so I guess the author wanted "vintage" names
Really gotta disagree with you on the name thing- I can't quite wrap my head around this take. I've always been the type of person to name my characters after concepts, feelings or things that are nature related so I guess I just don't really understand preferring more 'normal' names. Even if you do prefer them though, I still can't imagine calling a character by something other than their name, it just doesn't make sense to me. Aside from all that though I agree with you on everything else. Dumb misunderstandings gotta be some of my most loathed plot devices.
Out of curiosity, since the first point is VERY contentious and has generated quite a bit of backlash, a pinned comment response or a response video would be nice because man did you fumble that shit harder than a toddler trying to hold a giant beach ball and I'm guessing you probably lost a LOT of people with that first point.
@@chechema1010 i’m not even sure like only at the very very end of the webtoon they finally clear up the misunderstanding and then get married like cmon- there’s like 70 something episodes and there no communication whatsoever even when they are adults they still don’t use proper communication it’s so bothering but it still managed to bring me back each episode so ig the author is doing smth right🥲
I agree with almost everything, specially the names like why would you want to have a character with a name that no one can pronounce if it doesn't means anything?
What do you mean, Edith, Rigelhof, Suna, Hillaria are all normal names and not even difficult to pronounce if you do a bit of googling. They are also appropriate with the setting of the story. What’s that? Do you expect someone named Bob and Steve in an European pseudo-medieval setting? Fine, but boring. Nil is a real given name. Pas is very uncommon as a given name but sometimes used as a surname. Both of them have meanings and not made-up words. What the hell are you talking about?
That is very arrogant to assume that your names are the normal ones american, you are the weird one all of the listed names are real names, also oak and echo are not fantasy names and real people have those names cope.
You really can't pronunce Suna? Or Hillaria? Or Nil? Please, tell me you are jocking, cause I really can't believe you CAN'T pronunce such terminally simple names as this.
It's the kind of thing that makes me really want to drop a story, especially if the character just stops wearing glasses forever after that point. Alternatively, I saw the guy with glasses being considered nerdy or "just" cute until he takes off his glasses and now oh no, he's hot! Anyone with glasses can look hot or beautiful as long as they pick the right frames for their face, which most glass users I've seen do. Also do these writers think that people wear glasses just for fun, not to be able to see? I know that contacts exist, but they aren't for everyone and they shouldn't be expected.
I agree with most of the points in this video except the thing about names. Most of the names you mentioned are pretty normal? just not typical white/american names. I can understand certain names in stories being ridiculous (the My Immortal fanfic with Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Way comes to mind), but names like Edith, Suna Choi etc are actually fairly common. Even Nil and Pas, while not super common are actual names, they are just from other cultures. and they actually have significance in the comic that ends up being very sweet. and the whole thing of changing the names in your head feels a little disrespectful to me. A lot of the time an author will put a lot of thought into their characters name so immediately disregarding it because youre not familiar with feels a bit like a slap in the face to an author
I was just smiling awkwardly when you took like a whole minute to describe names around the world as "you know, there miigghht be some names outside of earth ahem, i mean usa.... like south korea and japan......that have meaning" Ah yes, only american names have meaning and are the superior and NORMAL names on this earth, oh right, i guess these 2 other asian countries do too... maybe? what do i even say to that... And then goes on to SHAME EDITH of all names, when the other characters are : Killian, Cliff, Rhyse, and Rhenan....... bruh
The sheer hatred directed at the "they almost found each other" trope, is the same as my hatred for the "lie to someone to make them think you hate/don't care about them, because you think that will hurt them less," trope. I swear to God, I hate that trope so much ever since I first encountered it in a chaper book in second grade. I never finished the book because how utterly broken the poor dragon was after the girl hit it and told it she hated it bothered me so much. I almost never find this trope tolerable, let alone good. About the best outcone a series that goes this route at sone point can hope for is that I like it overall, but view that scene as the lowpoint - possibly soul-crushingly low - of the story. The one exception to this I have found in all my years, is in the manga "No.6" (also one of my all time favorites) and that's because it subverted my expectations by having the character the trope was directed at immediately shoot holes in the lie, by pointing out specific evidence that conclusively proved the other person did, in fact care about them, and the person who tried to it had absolutely no comeback to that...I think the reason that worked for me was that it circumvented the feelings of betrayal and doubt inbyour own ability to accurately understand the people around you that this trope normally entails. For what it's worth, I'm actually a lit less bothered by instances where the petson genuinely DOESN'T care about someone, even though that's still has the same psychological effect on the betrayed person, because in that case they're doing it to someone they don't like, rather than doing it to someone they genuinely care about while convincing themself they did the right thing...
Three's Company is the good version of that concept. Nearly every episode is about a misunderstanding getting out of hand but it works because usually, either no one realizes there's a misunderstanding so no one knows they need to explain something or the misunderstanding is caused by a lie they told in the first episode that'll get the main character kicked out of the apartment if they admit to it. The lie is that the main character is gay. They had to tell that lie because the landlord didn't like the idea of letting him live alone with two women.
Any trope is good in moderation or with the right writing work put into it, tho I sure hate when tropes are used to artificially lengthen a story that doesn't need to be longer than it is.
Seriously, I also hate how a lot of webtoons just artificially lengthened with some of the tropes mentioned here. Another way I see this being done is by making the episodes shorter. Maybe this is why I prefer comics that are shorter and don't beat around the bush. Seriously, the length of some of these webtoons scare me.
Sometimes I get real mad when I have to read more than 100 episodes of a Webtoon just to enjoy it. That's why I prefer short stuff that is solved, not inmediatly, but with less filler.
Ima be honest, I like the odd names Non American names can be quite beautiful, and even fun to say. I like trying to pronounce something like “Yugan Talovich” or “Khayrat Jeghel” or “Qi Xiaotian” something more of what I’m used too like “Izuku Midoriya” or “Utena Tenjou” And of course there’s name that’s just straight up in my family like “imelda” which is literally just one of my grandpas sisters names lol Names, I think, when given enough thought and detail can be amazing. I love it when characters have names that actually match where they were born, and even when it correlates to when they were born. Bonus points if the name is used to explain something about the character ( a trait, how they look, what they represent, or even a prophecy of what they WILL be ) I think it just shows that the creator cares a lot about these characters when they take the time to think out their names like this. I do it all the time lmao Also is it just me or does anyone else just block out the love triangle??? Like- I’d always see it and go “ehhhhhh” and just space out during it. Love triangles aren’t really my thing haha
Something that bugs me for similar reasons to the "almost happened" trope is when characters become a couple but eventually break up. Every episode building up to their relationship or developing it usually becomes unwatchable after that. It's all retroactively filler.
I hate the comic that never ends and thr plot is like tiny ass crumbs sprinkled throughout hundreds of chapters of fluff bc the author is afraid of the plot they have sprinkled in.
For me, I hate reincarnation ( especially in their own past). And Isekai ( in "real" world, books, or game. I hate that. I theorically love historical fantasy, wet those trop are 99 % of them. The 1 % restant does have something that start to piss me off more and more, Wich is royalty/nobility. Like ... I want adventure and romance, not pseudo nobility problem and romance. And I'm tired of the family that is just cartoonishli means. Uggg . I will expend of my hate about Isekai : in most, it doesn't bring anything to the story , it just has Isekai because it's popular. In some ( reincarnation in their own past, or a book ) they now what will happen, pass for super smart ( when they are not and got killed for it ) have 180 change personality, and are just a Mary Sue . Urggjjhj if you have historical fantasy without reincarnation and not much nobility, but with romance ,please I would like them .
I know you're probably speaking about european historical ones but the asian historical ones are pretty good! (Though you may still find it hard to escape that nobility aspect haha)
I personally like reincarnation ones(The types of reincarnation I'm talking about is "A good day to be a dog" and "See you in my 19th life") Those two I love.
@@BreathingBlack i have some beef with the reincarnation in historical Asia too, but i do think they are more used in shonen and action type . So it can be the same with the overpowerd and all + a lot more of sexualisation of women that i don't enjoy very much . But if you have nice one to suggest i can at least try .
Nobility is just a trope, that happens, but reincarnation can be very interesting if tackled wit a bit nuance how the reincarnation and former person, are different. Like inuyasha has a very interesting love triangle due a jealous ghost of her and her haunting him too. Which is really good.
@@marocat4749 i think inuyasha is quit old in term of manga ? Yeah i've already heard about it and would like to see it one day - i don't have has much of a problem with old isekai even tho i didn't see much of them . ( if had to explain it, they was a bit more diversity in what you could read in shojo isekai ) Like one of the only shojo isekai of the 90's that i've read ( it's called Kanata Kara - "from far away" in english) isn't anything like all the other recent shojo isekai that i've read . She kept her own body, she had to learn the language . They move around a lot and travel, we see a bit of the world . It was far from perfect but i like this one very much ( no nobility for the 2 main lead) The other one was anatolia story , that have quit a lot of problem that didn't age very well, but was set in antiquity in west asia , had her learn to fight and talked about a lot of different things. they was nobility there, but it didn't bother me, since this one and kanata kara were like some of the first isekai i've ever read . ( like i'm just annoyed with the nobility trop but i can work with it )
I personally don't mind names that are a little unusual to what one is used to in a fantasy context, when there is thought put behind the name rather than just letter salad. For example, in a sci-fi fantasy piece of mine, the protagonist's name is Cythe Cenesserie. How much thought did I put into this name? Warning for a linguistic tangent ahead. So for starters, the letter C is a stand-in for a sound in the language of the protagonist, Thonsith, that is typically pronounced more as a clicking sound made by the tongue at the back of the throat. Little pronunciation note, but we continue. The first name Cythe is rather a common shortening of the name Cyith, which means "Of the City", with the first part of the name referring to the word City, and the suffix "-ith" meaning of. For example, Thonsith (the term for both the language and the inhabitants of Thonsic) means "Of Thons". If I were to go into what Thons is, we'd be here for a history lesson as well for a fictional planet I made up. Then the surname. "Cen-" is a standard prefix in Thonsith surnames, basically meaning "Descended from" so in Cythe's case, that's "Descended from Esserie", once again, we'd be here for a history lesson were I to explain who Cathain Esserie was. The particular individual in the surname, is simply who the most honourable by Thonsith standards in one's lineage was. TL;DR I think it's cool when fantasy worlds have meaning behind their names and languages and put thought into the rules thereof
9:35 Except they weren't looking for him. His parents had already given up on finding him when they got off the boat. They fully believed he was dead. Only his sister still had hope. It is still frustrating though. I still say they could have made an announcement at the rally about him looking for his family.
Matty, I'm going to hold your hand when I say this: There are better examples for that first section. I would know, I frequent r/OtomeIsekai (for those who do not know, It's a subreddit for discussing webtoons, manga, and manhwa within the romance fantasy/historical genre, isekai or not) and there are multple post about discussing the weirdest/uncomon names in the genre. Examples: Chateau Dankworth Clayen Ridolovisko von Macarena Juicy Mocha Filter Drips King Goldblackrose Blondina Petronilla Rashta Sovieshu Aquasteed Marineforest Tiararose Anais Fragrance Emporer Joji Waltbal Mercedes Vladmir Brick Ukraine Aglio Olio Lady Salami Idwin Solitair Religieuse Violet Midnight of The Church of the Passion Flower Garknaldo Aimer Imbécile Manon Pillage Werner Karl Mohammed Lete Roserice Sharkie and the PEAK: Rue Sienna Lord Moon Blood Rain AND Kaon Mahana Lord Moon Blood Rain I would like to note that some of these names aren't that weird. I would also like to note that some of these names are clearly ethnic. On the ethnic names, a lot of them are attached to white characters in a European fantasy setting, so...ehhh???. Basically what I'm getting at is you were right on the weird names. Your examples where not it.
I only like the misunderstanding trope if it’s comedy, I HATE love triangles, so much drama and main girl takes FORVER to pick someone like either you like one or you don’t, stop waisting their time
Stare down names mean smth tho. Nil means zero, and Pas is actually short for Pascal. And they aren’t even that hard to pronounce, along with others. Everything else, I can agree with.
I think it's funny going into this video and hearing you talk about how you hate stupid names meanwhile my favorite game's main character is named Apollo Justice and in his internal monologue he constantly says "here comes justice"
HELP NOT I LOVE YOO 😭 I remember that comic went on hiatus for a long ass time and then came back and I was SO EXCITED but then I got sick of it because it never ended like girl this is not The Simpsons you need to wrap it up at some point 💀
The name issue reminds me of the time I proof read my sister's fantasy story and consistently mispronounced the main duo Jason and Mike as Yah-son and Mee-keh. Fictional settings deserve fictional names imo.
Fantasy character could have normal names as long as they're not from that fantasy world. Unless the fantasy world is like just literally medieval Europe with no difference then everyone should have normal medieval name
Sis talks about "weird names" then drops Cade as a normal one when it feels like a made up name for non-english speaker. Americano centrism is real and stong here
Notice: This is just my opinion on these. If you think differently, let's discuss :3 Name one feels a bit off. I understand silly names but some of those just felt kind of normal? I get Pas and stuff but Hillaria was really just a letter different from the original, which is quite common in name variations Misunderstanding one does get annoying, especially since it tends to be overused and poorly written where none of characters have communication skills whatsoever Love triangles do just tend to be love lines/corners like a lot of the comments are saying. While they are a thing I don't really mind if used normally, most stories just have the person at the centre lead the others on which is just dickish(unless written nicely like clone high Cleo, JFK and Abe with it fitting her character) when we're meant to like the character who is leading them on and none are solved with polyamory ;w; I've never seen the almost meeting so I'm not forming an opinion for lack of information The something important almost happens can be used for suspense and other things but I feel a lot of people attempting it either write it poorly or overuse it to the point the reader stops caring. I think it's similar to "it was just a dream/in their head" trope where it should be used sparingly and carefully to have an effect (Like in OPAL or part of the wall plot in Solar Opposites) Thank you for reading
3:12 Actually as someone who read that webtoon their names have meanings (it’s explained at some point but I don’t really remember but it’s like their names are complementary or something) but I still totally see your point and agree :)
Actually, the name thing… many cultures spell names differently.. I’m in that situation currently as my name is a strange to many people as it’s ‘spelt wrong’ but that’s just how my culture spells it. In fact, many of those ‘strange names’ are actually from other countries.
I don't think down to Earth qualifies as misunderstanding. The central antagonizing factor of their relationship is undoubtably the headspace each of the characters are in, more so Kade than Zay. This is supported when their problems don't get solved when they do reveal they like each other, nor do they really progress relationship wise. This has been apparent since we started talking about Dalila, and it's shown how much he dislikes her, but still holds onto the fond memories of her, his subconscious actively betraying what he wants. The only misunderstanding is between the cahracters and themselves, which is relatable in my opinion rather than meandering in my opinion.
The only time I've enjoyed the "yelling but something louder drowns them out" was in Invader Zim, because they forgot to draw the cars so the noises are there but the characters are yelling at each other across a completely empty road
I strongly hate the "-180 trope". What I mean by that is when a character, whether side or main, is starting to find this new acquaintance attractive or overall enjoyable to be around and potentially might start a relationship with them. What gets annoying is when that new acquaintance does a complete 180 of their personality than what the reader saw chapters ago. Don't get me wrong people can be like this in real life but it's annoying when there weren't even signs of this bad behavior from the start and the author added it in there so they can get rid of them for the main character to get back to their original ship. That's cheap and such bad writing in my opinion
My favorite case of the "It almost happened" trope, because it's done (in my opinion) so well, is a major plot point in Suitor Armor MAJOR SPOILERS! In Suitor Armor, the main character is a fairy in a world that doesn't like fairies. She disguised herself as a human for most of her life to protect herself, and is in quite the dangerous position of being Lady-in-waiting to a Princess. after the Princess is married and made Queen, the Lady-in-waiting becomes the apprentice of the court mage. All the times people have discovered her being a fairy was out of her control, but now she's preparing to tell the King, and her childhood friend the Queen, about what she really is. For one night, she feels peace, like everything is going right. She then wakes up to an attack on the Kingdom, and the King and Queen have both been killed (if either survived, I don't know because I haven't had the courage to pick the comic back up, but I will continue reading again at some point. I'm just a tad shaken about that twist, even after basically a year) It almost happened, but it didn't, but it not happening isn't useless. It's a logical plot point that happened at the hands of one of the villains being in character. THAT'S how you do "It almost happened" right. It made me feel so good for just a moment, knowing that it was too good to be true with who was lurking in the shadows, only for me to be proven right in the worst way possible, making me feel HORRIBLE, BUT I still want to keep reading. Anyways, I highly recommend this story if you haven't read it yet, it's amazing, and I really hope that the main character, the other main character, and my fav side characters are ok, even if it's unlikely based on the comic being brave enough to do something so drastic to such important characters.
As an MXTX fan, I get annoyed with the "I isekai'd into a novel and I reincarnated as the villainess who dies so I must avoid the plot but oh no! I got a harem!" Cuz it always gives "This is just Scum Villain but straight" vibes.
