Were the Greek Gods Real? | Doug Wilson 

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This is some Michael Heiser level stuff, glad Canon Press isn't scared to talk about it.

A great spring board to talk to my family and friends about spiritual issues

I believe this is spot on. I personally think the ancient gods were a mix of demonic spirits and tales of ancient human heroes who eventually got raised to divine status by their descendants. For instance, I 'm sure that Odin was probably a real person in Proto-Germanic history. He probably was a great and wise warrior who fought giant wolves and bears and led his tribe. He then was raised to a divine status centuries after his death.

A very wise perspective, Brother, thank you and God bless!

Insightful and broadening , thank you!

And, interestingly enough, the word "demon" in Greek was just another word for "god" and perhaps even one of the older terms for it. It often is in the diminutive form which can refer to an evil spirit. But even Zeus and the Olympians were referred to as "demons/daemons" by Homer. The word seems to come from those who control destinies. So in the context of Luke-Acts, the words "demon" and "god" were more differentiated by the differences between the beings being referenced rather than a stark literary separation on its own (though, certainly, the usage of terms can be relied upon as distinctions within the cultural context of Luke-Acts).

Very interesting, thank you!

I think Homer IS wonderful. But one of the many wonderful things about Homer is the way he illustrates the longing, the desperate yearning for Jesus that existed in the hearts and minds of pre-Christian man. Homer isn't "sweetness and light", but he brilliantly and subtly illustrates the tragic nature of the world he lived in and leaves readers hoping for a God who, in contrast to the Olympians, will, as Psalms 82 states, "defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked." Indeed, I think Psalms 82 is almost like a perfect epilogue to the works of Homer and Vergil.

Great video.

Love you guys

Excellent

I am taking notes! Wow 👌 👏 😍

Pastor Wilson! Praise Jesus for your wisdom. I figured this would be your answer especially after following your critiques on Dr. Heiser's thoughts on the supernatural. This is all very inline with that train of thought. Again, I appreciate you speaking about this.

This was really good. I took the time given to me due to Covid to study paranormal stuff and I think a lot of what the ancients saw, stories, etc just weren't completely made up if that makes sense.

Right on. I teach this same stuff in my courses and at church.

Interesting take

Awesome topic! I dealt with this as well in the Heavenly Realms series. The Fallen became pagan deities to lead humanity astray and to appease their pride. John Milton talked about it in Paradise Lost as well.

Wilson getting blurry. I like it!

The Bible says Zeus was a real god worshipped often.

Zacharias Papantoniou (Greek: Ζαχαρίας Παπαντωνίου) was a Greek writer. He was born in Karpenissi of Evrytania in February 1877 and died in Athens in 1940. He spent the first years of his life in Granitsa, where his father was a teacher. Apart from a writer, he was also a journalist. Many of the works of Zacharias Papantoniou, unfortunately, are censored because they tell the truth on Greek history. In that censored group is also the book, ''The King Otto''. Below we state a fragment from this book: ''The young Prince for first time come in Athens on January 25, 1833, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?" His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy."

Pastor Doug, I have heard heard it said that Jesus spent more time casting out demons than healing the sick. Thanks.

I still wonder about the origin of the specific idols. Were the false ideas about the gods that humans believed brought about by the direct influence of demons, or did people imagine idols in their own heads and then demons stepped in to accept that false worship?

Interesting discussion. Listening to this reminded me about a theory I read about regarding the idea of polytheism in the world. If the young universe and earth theory is correct, then it would be logical to assume that the first few generations after Noah would have been monotheist and as the groups of people dispersed, the knowledge of the Diluge and one God would be corrupted and deteriorate into polytheism. Someone else commented that it could have been possible that the 1st generations of the various peoples of the world, would have elevated their progenitors into the Zeus, Thors, Amaterasu and Quetzalcoatl.

Thanks for all your content. God bless you. The story in Acts 16 vs 17-18 in the Greek does it say “the way” or “a way”? I have wondered that. Seems like it is pretty harsh to rebuke her if she is affirming the message of Salvation is through Christ Alone.

Answer is yes and no. Yes. Fallen angels bred hybrids with great power. No, they weren’t Gods. They were powerful and large beings.

Interesting.

Also, Noah's progeny would have carried the history of the powerful Nephilim, as well as seen the mighty bones of these twisted and demonic beings that YAH annihilated. These would become "gods" to those that reject YHWH.

Thank you so much for explaining this so well!!!! We need the truth of the gospel in correlation with Greek Mythology (which is not a myth but very true).

Holy Smokes! Pastor Doug Wilson admits it.

Anyone know what grade level doug would teach these thing at his Logos school?

This is a good question relating to history, philosophy and theology. I would say in the past, people believed in the Greek gods and goddesses. Today, most people see Greek gods and goddesses as being part of mythology or history.

I think a good way to describe daemons, powers and principalities in analytic language would be: immaterial beings with moral agency and causal powers, who can possess human beings and some of whom accept worship as if they were YHWH.

Interesting

couldn't have more respect for Doug but i would like to see more "reformed" pastors talk about genesis 6 and the seed war between the serpent and messiah. Doug doesn't mention the word "nephilim" once here which makes me think he goes with the Sethite theory concerning the "sons of god". Demon's are the disembodied spirits of the nephilim and all of these greek gods were real, living entities dating back to the tower of babbel and prior (names change over time and between different cultures). Seminary schools from what ive heard dont teach this, let alone touch it whatsoever. My point being this subject could be much more elaborated on and i'd love to hear Doug's deeper thoughts on the matter.

Ok Doug. Any chance we can get a more exhaustive list of verses in the Bible that would lead to an understanding of this sort of thing? This is an extension of the "Sons of God and daughters of man" type thing, is that correct? or something completely different? Or extra-biblical content like the book of Enoch or something?

"Take every story you've ever heard, every myth and every legend. It's simpler to start with the assumption they're all real." "Hang on," I said. "Isn't that impossible? Wouldn't some religions being real require others to not be?" "Ah," he said with a flicker of his crooked smile. "I said real, not true." --AG, "Soul Fraud"

I always wondered if Greek, Egyptian, Norse "gods" were actually demons but in contact with them

Could they have been the people they Genesis 6:4 was referring to the “hero’s of old”?

A juicier question for humanistic education. WHICH of the cultural patterns we call "TEH GREEK GODS" are most important to represent to the 2020's? For my money, I'm performing Cybele and Attis, Daphne & Apollo, and Plato's Phaedros, which can be read as hymn to EROS.

It's one thing to read about it and a totaly different thing to know about it. Many people don't even realize how blessed they are when nothing happens and life keeps living. Sometimes faith just seems invisible. Who knew that the most powerful force in existence is INVISIBLE? You can't touch it, taste it, feel it, see it nore smell it? I think I might be missing one or two here, but how would you know?

Didn't the Jewish God of the old testament accept sacrifices? And tell people to sacrifice things? And isn't the God of the old testament the God of the new testament? And didn't"God" say not to worship any other Gods before Him? That in itself to me seems as if "God" is admitting the existence of other Gods, or else the wording would have or should have been different. And when He says "false Gods" in other passages, it is still admitting that they are Gods, just not the peoples true God. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, on any of this, but this is how I understand it. But I see things from both sides, not just from a Christian or "pagan" stance. The issue I have with many people who believe that they know a thing or two about things such as this, they tend to be a little to extremely biased because of their beliefs. This guy does seem a bit biased, but still grounded on the subject.

Python is a computer language used for algorithms. That's why you get pop up ads on your phone.

Marvel movie joke was great 😂

Another great resource is Michael Heiser. He says that the gods of the nations (Greek, Norse, Roman. any ancient culture)are these other gods.See Deuteronomy 4:19. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about what Heiser taught, but he said God took Israel as His own, but in the dispersion at the tower of Babel, God put all of these other, lesser gods, elohim, to rule over the other 70 nations. These, I believe are the gods of the Greek, Roman, Norse, and any other nations talked about in history. God chose Israel, dispersed everyone else at the tower of Babel, but then sent Jesus to gather the people from those 70 nations back into His family. These gods mated with human women, see Genesis 6, and their offspring were the nephilim. When the nephilim died, their spirits are the demons that are talked about, who are looking to possess humans.

Well put, Pastor, and very logical!! I toyed with an ouija board in my youth and the demons were there so I got rid of it... God bless y'all!!

AMEN & AMEN

Brian Godawa has written and documented about this extensively and even has a series of books that answer these type questions thoroughly. Check him out.

Honestly nobody knows because none of us were there. You can't claim to know.

As soon as I saw the question, “Were the Greek Gods Real?” turn up in my feed, I said, I’ll bet he’s going to say: “To the extent that they *were* real, they were demons.” Now, how did I know that. Maybe I have the Spirit of Python.

Some were just formed from Ancestor Worship, like a long dead King who was remembered as a great Hero. Others? Perhaps memories of Fallen Angels and Nephilim. (Their Offspring - demigods)

Yep.

7:17 Fair enough.

These guys are just awesome

As a classical Christian educator, who loves the humanities, I have always cringed when fellow Christian educators identify more with Western classicism than with biblical Christianity. The classic pagans inform us of the world Christ existed in, but they are by nature anti Christian in their world view. Classical does not automatically mean good. Thank you for clarifying thism

Is Hell rill?

let’s go woug dilson!

Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. King James Version

I would go even one step further and say that the demi-gods (part god and and part human offspring of the gods) were real also, coming forth from the Genesis 6:1-4 account. They may not have been living during this post-flood part of our history, but their tradition/narrative had been passed down, and the people of this age still revered/worshiped them. Almost of the ancient cultures stories of their gods and demi-gods are strangely similar, just with different names. And these narratives/mythology align with Genesis 6. In the antediluvian world there probably was real “golden age” civilizations (i.e. Atlantis); and they likely had real battles (i.e. clash of the titans) as part of Yahweh’s judgment on the fallen watchers was to make them witness their offspring destroy one another. Before he brought the severe judgment of the flood (save Noah and his “perfect generations”), another common thread through most ancient civilizations. IMO Gen 6:1-4 was part of a cosmic seed war. Trying to destroy the human genetics in order to prevent the possibility of a human savior (Jesus redemptive work). The first 36 chapters of the first book of Enoch detail what happened in Genesis 6:1-4, interesting read if you never have. IMO it should not be included in the Canon for several reasons, but I also believe it is reliable enough to be used as historical narrative (but not to be treated as perfectly inspired), and that it was actually the testimony of Enoch (not a fake contrived by others for their own purposes). Stay away from 2nd and 3rd Enoch, unless reading for insight into Gnosticism. They were written AD, are gnostic, and likely inspired by Satan. 1st Enoch was written BC, has fulfilled prophecies, calls Jesus the Son of Man which is rare in the OT, was preserved by the Ethiopian church and partially in the Dead Sea scrolls, and is quoted by Jude. And my interpretation/view, is that Jesus went to proclaim his victory to the fallen and bound watchers (some of those “mythological” gods) during his time of death, I Pet 3:18-20

Yes, depending on what you mean by real.

I think that behind every myth is a historical basis somewhere lost in time. Were the old gods sometimes demons? The Bible seems to suggest that is at least possible sometimes. Certainly some of them were.

Yes. Either Fallen Angels or the children between those fallen and the daughters of men.

What an opener!!! BRavO

josephus, states that father abram said, all the different peoples gods, were given their power from father god. i mean josephus was from a priestly family & was to be high priest

I'd rather say the Greeks had part of the truth, but not not the entirety of it. Just like the old testament finds it origins in even older stories. It seems like droplets of truth gathering in pools over time.

Yes.

Zeus also having sex with many woman, sounds like fallen angels to me. Gen. 6 also said they are man of renowned, so maybe those heroes like heracles or gilgamesh are nephilims. just my opinion

The fallen angels were apparently on Mt. Hermon, whereas the Greek Gods were on Mt. Olympus…quite possibly the same group in both accounts.

I think that there really was a wandering king named Woden who traveled north from Germania towards the Norsemen and taught them many things. I think there really was a soldier who was very impressive in combat and legends grew about him after his death, claiming that he was a child of Zues. Some gods from various regions were actually people, sometimes a particular person, but other times more like a religious/political office. All emperors of Japan are gods in the Shinto religion. The Dali Lama is a god. King Odin was a god. The real question is what does it mean to be god, or to be a god? Different cultures had different answers to that question. Your idea of god is not the only idea of god.

I thought maybe the greek, roman, Egyptian gods were influenced by fallen angels who might have been toying with these civilisation.

Genesis 6:4 seems to me to be the true narative of the events that Graeco/Roman mythology recorded as gods having sex with mortal women and conceiving demigods such as Hercules.

To the ancient Greeks, yes!

Boom

Yes, they were. “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭NIV‬‬ The heroes of old were the Greek demigods like Perseus. They were 100% real but were evil.

The Bible supports henotheism not monotheism. It never says Baal, Ashtaroth, and Molech don't exist. All it says is Jews shouldn't worship them and that the Israelite God is stronger.

Genesis talks about the nephilim, who were the spawn of “the sons of God” when they mated with human women. “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭ESV‬‬ There is some debate here, as some scholars don’t believe that’s the “sons of God” we’re fallen angels. I think it’s rather clear that they were, because Job also talks about the sons of God, in a way that only makes sense if they were fallen angels. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”” ‭‭Job‬ ‭1:6-7‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Pretty straightforward to me that the “sons of God” we’re clearly demons, and they even came with satan to stand before God and present themselves to Him. The stories of Hercules, Ares, Thor, Odin, etc. and the other ancient Gods make a lot more sense if you take these verses, and look at Goliath and the other giants in Canaan. There were giants in that land when the Israelites went there, and all those cultures worshiped Molech and sacrificed their children to him. Go look at almost every ancient religion, from the Aztecs, Vikings, Phoenicians, and Carthaginians. They all sacrificed to Baal, or Molech, and they all have hero myths that are reminiscent of the nephilim

This is amazing. You have to do more of this stuff. It makes y'all looking totally insane. Next, talk about wizards, and how they are real. Because, obviously, god said they were. Excellent. Solid gold. Amen! Amen!

Weren't Greek characters in their mythology heroes from the Bible? Except they believed that actual God (Chronos) is bad, but Adam (Zeus), Eve, Nimrod, etc. are good, freedom delivering heroes.

Is our God in Greek Mythology?

"The malignant sense is because the Greek word was used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and the Vulgate for "god of the heathen, heathen idol" and also for "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matthew viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in Old English, feend or deuil in Middle English. Another Old English word for this was hellcniht, literally "hell-knight."" Stop spraying false informations please

Plutarch reports that during his lifetime, parallel to Christ’s life, all the oracles disappeared and were no longer operative.

A very Jovial discussion. :)

They were real. Absolutely, same with hindi gods and the rest of them. But they are misdescribed! These are fallen demonic entities being worshiped as if they had not fallen from grace. I think at least.

I think they were descendants of the giant offspring of the fallen angels and human women: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4

I always assumed they might represent fallen angels who may have been worshipped.

No where are theu

Lol .. you are asking that of the guy who believes in magic fruit trees and talking snakes ? Hahaha

But I can feel the power of Zeus.

They are real..they are a spiritual authority in their heavens..and glorius as well

Still waiting on an answer to the question, "Why study ancient pagan writers?" How is that advantageous at all? Let's stick with thinking on good, pure, holy, virtuous things.

Wow. Most Christians would I think pooh pooh what Doug is saying. Personal experience and those of friends would say otherwise.

Yes I believe so 100 percent......Real Fallen angels/Nephilim....with powers there angel forefathers would have had or some of them at least, and likewise the power that would trick many people to view/worship them as "gods" absolutely.

It is logical that they were the ancestors of the ancient Greeks

Baal worship was simply an inverted view of the divine council. They believed that Lucifer won in dethroning God and he became “God, the Most High.” It was the idea that Baal worshipers can become gods, (see the serpents temptation to Eve). Same with the Greeks and Romans. Zeus overthrew Kronos to become the Most High. God cannot be overthrown. He is All Powerful!

6:00 Why? Deut 32 tells us because God set it up that way after Babel.

No

“tASKS,” you say !!!/????/.....

Didn't actually answer the question. Basically, what Doug's response was "they could be demon possessed people." You know, because that makes sense..

I believe in something closer to the original Roman inclusion into Christianity as exaggerated in Dovahhatty. While sure, daemons tend to camouflage as good beings to deceive the human. They could have just been unable to grasp the concept of monotheism. And as shaped by states, these aspects of divinity fell into what it was cultural for them. There are very horrible stuff in the Bible which is justfied as divine and hidden in metaphors in old translations. But if you see through it, you'll see there's probably power taint on it. Or cultural taint as admitted in many parts of the new testament which claim rules which were in direct opposition to the first documented Christian groups. What's to stop the ancient warlike state of Israel, who's king or "judge" (term curiously also used by the Goths, Arameans, Phrygians and Thracians) have such influence in the church to justify their actions in the divine. It's no surprise Jesus himself contradicted plenty of the old Jewish laws, it was for a definite clear reason. For the Bible was written by humans and humans are corruptible and make great mistakes. Even those who did good to the church (in his case by forbidding the clergy to inherit property as they were growing too corrupt. Sadly this was repelled in medieval times) like Emperor Valentinian the first also committed g-nocide in its name and allowed polygamy. We gotta be critical of what we see and not believe it so fully. For Christ himself did that too.

Somebody been to, to many marvel movies- that told me his answer right there. They are real gods born from chaos which is Yahwehs brother but Yahweh was jealous of their worship because they became beery powerful and he was scared so he made them demons to the world and that’s how they became demons in todays world. The show supernatural talks about this.