Were too many German soldiers tied up occupying Europe?

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Some argue that too many German soldiers were tied up in occupying Europe, and so a lot of German manpower couldn't go East to fight the Soviet Union. This then "disproves" the idea I presented in a previous video ( The Axis Population outnumbered the Soviet Population in 1942 • The Axis Population ou... ) which was that the Axis actually outnumbered the Soviets, and could replace their manpower losses until 1943. Well, it turns out that, no, there weren't too many German soldiers tied up in occupied Europe during 1942. Let's find out why!
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25 июл 2021

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Комментарии : 1,1 тыс.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Let's see if the moron that's been reporting and & deleting my comments does the same this time 😂 I'm practically daring him at this point - go on, delete all my comments, see if I care!

@thefrenchareharlequins2743 2 года назад

Come out ye moron who keeps reporting my comments, Come out amd fight me like a man

@TruetoCaesar 2 года назад

What if I told you the RU-vid comments were moderated by a Sith Lord?

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

@@Edax_Royeaux It could be the 77th Brigaders, but it's more likely to be a Marxist.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

@@TruetoCaesar It wouldn't surprise me at this point

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Bit of a warning guys, if the pinned comment gets reported and deleted again, all your comments will be wiped too. So if you want to ask me a question or say something you want to survive, best make your own comment rather than reply here

@aviz8590 2 года назад

“There’s no point sending soldiers to war if there’s no ammunition to fight with” Meanwhile: *China 1937-45*

@samsonsoturian6013 2 года назад

Even in the Korean War they were still using men for tasks ordinarily reserved for horses.

@panzerofthelake506 2 года назад

If they can stick the enemy with a knife that's good enough send them in

@aviz8590 2 года назад

@@Edax_Royeaux ahh yes WWI, spanning 7 years from 1937-1945

@aviz8590 2 года назад

@@Edax_Royeaux ok, however when it’s mostly just people without guns (Chinese front of WWII) things aren’t gonna go to well

@dantecaputo2629 2 года назад

@@Edax_Royeaux I think he also was alluding to the experience China gained in fortifications and how this would be used successfully against the Japanese. For more information, see the Battle of Changsha.

@maps9 2 года назад

don't forget soviet troops at Turkish border, soviet troop at Iran and troops at far East on Manjuriya border.. and don't forget that many SS divisions were not german..

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 2 года назад

True. Despite the Japanese having gone for war with the US in 1941 instead of the USSR the Red Army maintained a very large force in the Far East throughout the war that could probably muster up to two full Fronts. Aside from freezing your nads off in the Siberian winter this was probably THE place to be (until August 1945) if you were like Edmund Blackadder and valued not getting killed in yet another operation called Certain Death in the Honor of Comrade Stalin!

@manco828 2 года назад

Years ago I was shocked to learn how much of the Wehrmacht's supply lines were horse-driven! The Panzer divisions were the small minority of the army.

@cotnesiradze3520 2 года назад

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 I don't think many had that attitude considering what was at stake.

@spqr1945 2 года назад

@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 My friend's Grandfather was serving there and food situation was very scarce, soldiers were on a brink of starvation and many actually died because of lack of nutrients, their immune system was really diminished because of hunger.

@odysseus2656 2 года назад

@@manco828 Funny, but my father who was a veteran, had a book on WW2 published in 1947, AND it made it very clear that the German army was NOT mechanized and was horse driven. Funny how in 1947 that was obvious and part of the war narrative, and then for about the next 30 years the lack of German mechanization was forgotten.

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

TIK is here making a mistaken claim that there were only 40,000 German troops occupying France in 1942. The figure of 40,340 comes from a book by Paxton and refers only to the number of men in Landesschutzen battalions deployed in Occupied France. Their average age was apparently 48! It takes no account whatsoever of the the 520,000 other younger Heer men in 23 divisions and supporting services deployed in the Netherlands, Belgium and (mostly) France on 1 July 1942. The idea that France, with a population of 40 million and a residual Vichy Army of 100,000 would remain passive under occupation by only 40,000 near geriatric German WWI veterans is implausible.

@matthewwilson3651 2 года назад

yes correct I fell over when tik said that very poor research

@Bismarck1941 2 года назад

To that figures we must add the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine personnel, thousands of them, in naval bases and airfields.

@MWcrazyhorse 2 года назад

Well they were guarding the cost.

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

@@MWcrazyhorse So? This doesn't stop them being (1) on French soil and (2) a continuous implicit threat to the French population, as they proved by occupying Vichy France on November 1942. 40,000 geriatric German WWI veterans with little transport and no more than small arms couldn't have done that on their own.

@MWcrazyhorse 2 года назад

@@markaxworthy2508 Apparently they did. Just like the Germans defeated France in 6 weeks. They must have figured "meh we'll just leave 42.000 geriatric old guys here. That should be enough". And I think they got the number quite right. What helped of course was Vichy France and the fact that the German occupation was very civil. And so the French people did not feel a need to fight a bloody rebellion. They let things develop and drank some wine.

@martindice5424 2 года назад

Also troops stationed outside Germany eat the food from the regions they are garrisoned in. Germany’s food problems were dire for most of WW2 and so outsourcing these to the conquered territories was essential.

@steadyjumper3547 2 года назад

Excellent point, there are many account from those occupied territories of German occupational forces takes from local villages and towns. Taking alcohol and animals for officers.

@sorsocksfake 2 года назад

Worth noting that this doesn't logically help a food shortage, but it does help on the logistics. They still eat it, they just eat it closer, presumably, to where it's grown.

@firebird9711 2 года назад

What do you need food for? Just go to the nearest medical box and recharge. Then wait for a panzer to spawn. Why is that so hard?

@martindice5424 2 года назад

@@firebird9711 🖖😘🤣

@DTOStudios 2 года назад

Germany's food problem actually wasn't that dire during WW2. The only people who ate better than the Germans were the Americans. It got very desperate towards the end of the war, but from 1939-mid 1944 to early 1945, Germans ate better than everyone but the Yanks. Crash Course has a video on WW2, where they specifically focus on food and they discuss the caloric intake of the different nations during the war

@nobleman9393 2 года назад

People who don't care about logistics: Just create more Panzer Divisions lol

@maximilianolimamoreira5002 2 года назад

these idiots might as well make the Tiger 1 only challenge, because, proper management of resources is for fools, we screw ourselves up really good.

@odysseus2656 2 года назад

Yes, but I find it humorous that many many people know all about Napoleon's disastrous retreat from Moscow and it was totally due to lack of logistics....yet so many people still think logistics, and the home front economy, are just not important things when it comes to discussing wars.

@menajev 2 года назад

@@odysseus2656 Most people knowing 'all' about Napoleon's retreat still thinks it was all because of winter...

@unclelarry8842 2 года назад

lol these are the same idiots who unironically say "HURR DURR JUst InvaDe BrItAin BeFORE UsSR" lmao this what happens when you play too much hoi4

@fatherelijahcal9620 2 года назад

HOI4 is getting a major expansion that will cover logistics, so hopefully that will shut these ignorant people up to some extent.

@oceanmadrosci3381 2 года назад

"How did Hitler want to starve the great britain with 300 submarines, while reducing the amount of fuel for the Krigsmarine to 50%." I hope someone asked this question.

@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 2 года назад

He was gambling as usual that Britain would capitulate.

@krisfrederick5001 2 года назад

You just did my friend

@Anthony-jo7up 2 года назад

His plans went from "They will surrender once we take France." to "They will surrender once we destroy the RAF." to "They will surrender once we bomb their cities." to "They will surrender once we sink their supply ships.". Just like how he thought that the Battle of the Bulge would win the war in the west, he could only hope for the best possible outcome given his options. As his options decreased, so ludicrous did their probability of success appear. I think compared to tanks and planes, the navy requires more fuel by far. Using all the fuel for the navy doesn't help win the war in the east to get more oil.

@sci-fihorizons2867 2 года назад

@@Anthony-jo7up His strategy was a mess. Just pick a damn front...

@timcahill4676 2 года назад

@@Edax_Royeaux from what I’ve seen they seemed to blame the British aristocracy and above all Churchill for keeping Britain in the war

@user-nf5bt3hd1p 2 года назад

get well TIK! we need you and wish you good health!

@Gert-DK 2 года назад

Denmark was used for fitting and refitting Divisions and training and retraining. It's a job that have to be done somewhere, so it might be fair to say that not all 6 divisions was "allocated" for occupation.

@yochaiwyss3843 2 года назад

Man, they needed 3 whole divisions just to counterbalance the King, they abaolutely needed all 6.

@thomashjensen1556 2 года назад

While I didn't know that, I had heard that the Germans referred to Denmark as "the front of whipped cream" ("flødeskumsfronten" in Danish).

@TheIfifi 2 года назад

@@yochaiwyss3843 yeah denmark was a pretty calm front. The king was epic but narh. We mostly cooperated with tge nazis. At least until 43 which turned mostly into passive resistance.

@micfail2 2 года назад

Not to mention that when we are talking about warfare on the scale of Eastern Front, six divisions isn't even a drop in the bucket...even if Germany could supply them in the field.

@jussim.konttinen4981 2 года назад

@@thomashjensen1556 From Denmark, they could potentially have gathered 500,000 men, but in reality less than a division of volunteers. In addition, a couple of companies in Finnish uniforms. Outright luxury treatment compared to Finnish experience, not to mention total destruction of Poland.

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

There is something wrong with the 40,000 figure that sticks out a mile. It is the equivalent to 1,000 troops (a battalion) to hold down each million French people and guard against invasion. It is even rather less than half the reduced 100,000-man army the Germans had allowed Vichy. It effectively implies that the Germans had all but abandoned France and the French were in a position to liberate themselves. Common sense should tell us that there is something very wrong with this figure.

@daniellee9328 2 года назад

Vichy French police and forces did most of the work, they feared Germany crushing them if they rose up so the police were the occupying force.

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

If there were only 40,000 German soldiers in the entire country then there wasn't much reason to fear "Germany crushing them". Even the Vichy Army was over twice that size!

@daniellee9328 2 года назад

@@markaxworthy2508 Germany would return with a much larger force there were also a lot of far right elements in France who supported new management of a pro nazi Vichy government. 80,000 Vchy French troops decide to attack the German garrison the garrison holds out until a large force attacks this time with massive reprisals.

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

@@daniellee9328 There is a thread on Axis History Forum that gives the following: The figure of 40,340 comes from a book by Paxton and refers only to the number of men in Landesschutzen battalions deployed in Occupied France. Their average age was 48! It takes no account whatsoever of the the 520,000 other Heer men in 23 divisions and supporting services deployed in the Netherlands, Belgium and (mostly) France on 1 July 1942.

@thelistener0 2 года назад

Yep that number is wrong. The number never went below 240 000, most of the time it was more than that

@benwalker8447 2 года назад

In 2 years when Stalingrad series is done haha (not a comment on the episode rollout I know it’s a bloody big job and encourage taking breaks), do you have any plans to cover anything else

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

I want to finish the North African Campaign, Torch, Tunisia, Sicily, Italy, then Normandy, whilst probably doing more on the Eastern Front. The reason I want to go back to North Africa is because we're nearly at Gazala, and then, shortly after, El Alamein, so makes sense to do more on it and get it finished.

@amicus1766 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight That is wonderful, I am increasingly fascinated by the ME in WWII. I would love to see you look at the U-boat war and apply your economic and logistical analysis to balance the tactical and strategic history done by others. I think that and the Battle of Britain both need that kind of work in more breadth and depth. Also, it would be interesting to look at Speer and the slave economy in the 1942-44 period. Keep up the good work, rest up, take a vacation/holiday and keep well. God bless.

@celdur4635 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight That whatever floats your boat dude! I support it all! Do whatever gives you energy to continue!

@manco828 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight When you are eventually done with this WW2 series, it will be a monumental achievement. I hope you are saving all your videos locally.

@jobsonindustries 2 года назад

Would love to listen to a campaign podcast format - similar to Dan Carlin.

@alexstoyanov6108 2 года назад

USSR also had to keep a million-strong army against possible Japan invasion, at 01.07.42 it numbered 1440 000. It outnumbers greatest TIK’s estimation of German troops in Europe

@_Abjuranax_ 2 года назад

Which is why they were immediately sent to the defense of Moscow, when Soviet Spy's were able to confirm that Japan was in no position to threaten them in the East.

@alexstoyanov6108 2 года назад

@@_Abjuranax_ It was constant presence on Far East and it never was less than 1 million from 1941 to the end of war. And it’s actually grown from 1,1 million in 22.06.41 to 1,44 million in 01.07.42.

@alexstoyanov6108 2 года назад

@@_Abjuranax_ And, well, nobody ever would move an army group because of information of a spy.

@johnnyfortpants1415 2 года назад

Great point. Didnt they also fight into Sakhalin?

@celdur4635 2 года назад

@@_Abjuranax_ That's actually a myth, the troops that saved Moscow came from Central Asia!

@markaxworthy2508 2 года назад

In 1942 Germany moved at least 20 newly created Reserve Divisions (numbered in the 148-190+ series) belonging to the Ersatzheer into occupied territories in West and East. These were actually part of the Reich's training apparatus, not Feldheer divisions. They were not usable on a battlefront even though they each added up to 10,000 men to the apparent strength of the occupation forces. They were intended to double as occupation troops, but when used for this it interrupted their training schedules and reduced the quality of replacements they sent to the Ostheer. That was why the Ostheer had to create a field training division in each army group - to complete their training behind the Eastern Front. In Denmark each Wehrkreis sent a battalion of recovering wounded to undertake occupation duties on the Baltic side. These were also not deployable on a battlefront even though they appeared on occupation strength returns. There are other examples, such as frontier guards, who were not usable on any battlefront.

@matthewbadley5063 2 года назад

Also excellent point. Quiet sectors were used for troop rotations. Although, the less land Germany could've occupied, the easier it would've been to rest and recover troops.

@alexrennison8070 Год назад

Huh, interesting. Excellent comments on this video all round.

@thefrenchareharlequins2743 2 года назад

10:34 Why didn't they just make 50 width cav divisions with MP and use that as the occuparion template?

@janehrahan5116 2 года назад

You need some armored cars to increase unit hardness man.

@aviz8590 2 года назад

All the mills were spent building infantry

@juliantheapostate8295 2 года назад

Or better yet, get a spy to go on a mission to reduce resistance

@MultiCrispyChicken 2 года назад

@@aviz8590 More like planes. Edit: And ships

@aviz8590 2 года назад

@@MultiCrispyChicken Whispers: Mills can’t produce ships...

@thefrenchareharlequins2743 2 года назад

40,000 men used to occupy France... so much for almost everyone thinking that the French Resistance was the best resistance movement evar.

@CA-jz9bm 2 года назад

more french fought for germany than against it

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

That was just in 1942!

@orenoitchiro4744 2 года назад

Before 22 June 1941 the resistance was againts Vichy France government not Nazi occupation

@MB-fo2sk 2 года назад

Great straw man there.

@janehrahan5116 2 года назад

Did anyone ever really think this? I thought everyone knew the french resistance was a larping cope for them surrendering so easily, not a real resistance, that's why civilian casualties in anti partisan actions were so low unlike poland or yugo.

@juliancate7089 2 года назад

The Allies did a pretty good job, both with direct action like commando raids, bombing, and aircraft carrier strikes, but also with intelligence ploys to keep the Germans guessing about Norway. To those who think the Germans had deployed too much in Norway, imagine if the Allies retook Norway in late '43 or early '44 because it was weakly garrisoned. That would have meant Allied airbases in Southern Norway. German coastal shipping would have been completely cut-off, not only in the North Sea, but the Baltic as well. How would Germany have gotten Swedish iron? How would she maintain lines of supply to Finland? How would her Uboats function when even their bases and construction yards in Germany could be attacked with ease from bases a short distance away? No, Norway was critical to German defense and devoting resources there was not a mistake.

@allanfifield8256 2 года назад

Outstanding post!

@Grondorn 2 года назад

War is a risk, despite the importance of Norway, the USSR was still a prime objective that would decide the war. Still, I believe it was more German complacency than the perceived threat from the West that kept them investing more in the East.

@juliancate7089 2 года назад

@@Grondorn Thanks for your comment, unfortunately, I think you're wrong on both counts. Germany needed to attack and occupy Norway (see any reference to the background on the Norwegian campaign for reasons), but Germany did not need to attack and occupy the Soviet Union. Hitler could have continued to trade with the Soviets for needed resources. It was only Hitler's evil ideology and his ridiculous economic theories that made war with the Soviets inevitable. Not to mention that TIK already explained that moving 2 or 3 divisions from Norway to the East would have made no difference to the war at all. Something I complete agree with.

@Grondorn 2 года назад

@@juliancate7089 I agree that Norway was extremely important strategically, but Germans potentially could have transferred some troops from there to the war theaters despite the risk of an attack there. Pulling troops from Norway alone would probably make only a difference locally, but I think a dozen divisions could have been extracted in 1942 from all theaters combined to the East. Considering Soviet-German trade relations, it seems that the Soviets exported a modest quantity of needed resources to Germany, possibly deliberately. For example, from the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact to the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, the Soviets exported around 900 000 tons of oil in total, which is a measly amount considering the German oil crisis.

@juliancate7089 2 года назад

@@Grondorn One thing I've learned about discussions on this channel is that people never accept that they are wrong, or that their opinions are ill-informed. So frustrating. It would be nice if people cared more about facts than trying to pump their egos. Firstly, I am not sure I agree with your assessment that the total trade was "modest", but even so, IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN. Part of the reason for the "modest" trade is that Germany wasn't paying the Soviets. Germany COULD have done so and increased trade. TIK explained in the video that Germany had already moved many divisions from the West to Russia. More would have simply allowed the USA and it's allies to waltz into Germany that much faster. But hey, have it your way. I'm out.

@kurts6741 2 года назад

I recently read that when Paulus surrendered on Jan. 31, 1943, not all soldiers surrendered. Around 10,000 kept fighting, basically to the death. It took the Soviets until mid-March to end the battle of Stalingrad.

@matthewwilson3651 2 года назад

yes i have read the same

@williamst.romain7393 2 года назад

The Germans never had 400k in Norway, though I can't specify an exact source. Its been years since I heard it, but a documentary on D-Day specified 250k. Still, this is a significant number. What needs to be remembered is that just because an army has X number of men doesn't mean each and every one of them is fighting on the front lines. Only about half of Germany's soldiers were combat troops at the beginning of 1942, with the number steadily increasing as the war went on. The Soviets, by comparison, never had less than 70% of their manpower on the front lines. It is an interesting study of how the Soviet Union fought WW2, but I highly recommend it for anyone interested. Basically, throughout the war the Russians were fighting on the edge, always in danger of running out of critical material at crucial moments. This is a big reason for way the Germans were able to inflict huge loses on them even into 1944. Manstein's famous counterattack after Stalingrad so often passes over the extent to which the Russians became overextended after their victory.\ By comparison: the United States had the largest military force in human history, a total in excess of over 16 million! But fewer than 20% of these were ever getting shot at. Most were involved in the massive supply chain which not only kept our own forces fighting, but dozens of other nations too.

@ScawerGaming 2 года назад

Yoyo, imma just pop in here and tell you you're wrong. Saying they never had 400k in Norway and saying you got *no* sources to back that claim is like saying "I think I'm right but I don't care to prove it". Relying on a D-day entertainment documentary is worse source selection than someone relying on Wikipedia for an academic science paper. The correct answer is that we are not quite sure how many German servicemen there were in Norway during the last few weeks of the war, but it is probable in the 400k region, considering Norway became the most heavily fortified country Germany had occupied including France, the most strategic exit and safehaven for warships and submarines, which therefore the majority of the Kriegsmarine became stationed in Norwegian harbours. And comparatively, I got authors to recommend who have written about Norway during WW2 if anyone wants to know more: Henrik O. Lunde, Walther Hubatsch, Carl Axel Gemzell, Rolf Hobson, John Keegan, T. K. Derry, Despina Stratigakos, François Kersaudy, among norwegian historians like Magne Skodvin, Helge Paulsen, Berit Nøkleby, Lars Borgerud. There, stop being lazy watching documentaries that are skewed towards an entertainment industry with minimal historical work put into it.

@abbottshaull9831 2 года назад

Uhm...I would dare say the Soviet Military was way above 16 million all total.

@williamst.romain7393 2 года назад

@@abbottshaull9831 Depends on what you mean. An estimated 35 million served in the Soviet military at some point during the war. But there was never more than 10 million at any one time. They suffered very high casualties.

@erikhalvorseth3950 2 года назад

I believe you are wrong but only partially wrong. The number of German troops in Norway reached its peak when all troops that were originally deployed in parts of Finland and the Murmansk region retreated after Finland got a separate peace with USSR. So its a bit academical- if we are discussing 'stationed or earmarked for Norway' the number probably never was even close to 400k, arguably somewhere around TIK's estimates. But in the chaotic days during the retreat from Russia/Finland from ca Sept '44 onwards the significant contigents of the late Gen Dietl's Mountain divisions along the arctic coastline, the 'Engelbrect' Div, the 6.SS.Div 'Nord' and other units from central Finland etc increased this number dramatically, although these units never originally were earmarked for deployment in Norway. Most of these battled-hardened and experienced units, like 'Nord',were shipped to Germany to more urgent war theatres. If one to this add Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe men, historians have estimated the number of Wehrmact personel in Norway to peak close to 400k. But for mentioned reasons, the number is pretty academical

@joegerhardusa9017 Год назад

The communist threw men at the Germans. Period.

@mdbr155 2 года назад

As for Greece, the Germans had occupying forces only in Athens, central Macedonia, part of Crete and a few islands.

@sillypuppy5940 2 года назад

Remember that being occupied isn't the same as being defended.

@catholicmilitantUSA 2 года назад

1) Norway was an anomaly in the German occupation strategy because they were always afraid of an allied invasion. It was therefore heavily defended by both the army and the navy. I don't think you could compare the Norway case to that of other occupied territories. 2) Get well soon TIk :(

@engelsteinberg593 2 года назад

What kind of joke is this?

@allanfifield8256 Месяц назад

Norway is a special case. In case of allied invasion, Germany can not move troops easily from point to point on the ground, To defend against any Norwegian resistant 1/4th of the number would be plenty.

@jamesmortimer4016 2 года назад

"Didn´t have to occupy other countries." Iran is not real

@hopfinatorischerkuchenkrieger 2 года назад

@Belagerungsmörser the Sheep Based.

@roberthansen5727 2 года назад

@Belagerungsmörser the Sheep Cringe

@samsonsoturian6013 2 года назад

Not just Iran, Chechnya revolted during the war, and many areas required their own garrisons because they had broken off and been reconquered within the previous 25 years when WWII was happening. Not to mention the paramilitary actions of collectivization that also took a toll on Soviet morale.

@samsonsoturian6013 2 года назад

@Belagerungsmörser the Sheep that's not funny

@samsonsoturian6013 2 года назад

@Belagerungsmörser the Sheep i don't know why you're treating Persian as an expletive. Besides, the modern Persians call themselves Farsi.

@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- 2 года назад

The Allied goal in the West was to draw away or engage 40 German divisions that could otherwise be used on the Eastern front.

@firebird9711 2 года назад

Amongst other goals, such as liberation of Paris, taking over the industrial Ruhr, and attacking Berlin if strategic conditions allowed.

@thanos_6.0 2 года назад

This is something I always wonderd myself. Thanks for making a video about that.

@IrishTechnicalThinker 2 года назад

Get well soon brother. God bless from Ireland Belfast.

@kalimurahagrid 2 года назад

Hi TIK, get well! I would like to add that Soviet Union had to keep forces on Far East front waiting for possible Japanese invasion. My grandfather served on the Far East front during the ww2 and at some point was relocated to Leningrad. He met end of the war in Königsberg.

@brucealbert4686 2 года назад

Chenny achovsky's front!

@soviettankmen 2 года назад

königsberg is one of the bloodiest battle that soviet faced. iirc even soviet commander there (Chernyakhovsky iirc) died and was replaced by stavka staff, marshall Vasilevsky

@Hambone51315 2 года назад

Thanks for the video, dispite you being sick. Get better soon!

@LjubomirLjubojevic 2 года назад

7:23 in late 1941 only 30.000 German troops were stationed in Serbia, with another 10-20.000 in Croatia. After uprising in december 1941 total troop number was 70-80.000 but dropped to 40-50.000 around february 1942. During stronger resistance in Croatia in 1942-1943 "corp Croatia" was formed with expansion to 130.000 German troops in Croatia with around 30.000 German troops combined in Serbia and Slovenia.

@Treblaine 2 года назад

When troops are garrisoned in somewhere like Norway they don't just cease to exist, they're training, they're organising, they are acting as a reserve force and depleted units can be sent to places like Norway to be reconstituted into new fully equipped units. I think this thoroughly debunks the idea that the failure of Barbarossa and Case Blue was simply due to "human waves" of Soviet troops, the Axis were beaten at their own game. And logistics was the bottleneck.

@markkelly9621 2 года назад

Apologies, I know you're ill, but I must criticise the video response to the viewer's question as you have not addressed the question properly. Plus, I was listening to the video in the background so an happy to be corrected if I state something that is wrong. The question was posed in relation to an earlier assertion by you that the total combined populations of the axis countries outnumbered that of the USSR. Presumably you argued that therefore the potential manpower for war was more that the USSR (if utilised correctly). However, in your video you have only taken into account the German units garrisoning of occupied territories. Although you explicitly mentioned Italian and Bulgarians occupying territories , these have not been taken into account when you have worked out the size of the occupying axis forces. Whereas mentioning that logistics might have limited the manpower at the front for the axis powers it does address the point made by the viewer about manpower employed elsewhere. I would have suggested you could actually have explained that the USSR's forces were also spread to defend in the East for example.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

It's alright, you have valid criticisms. I would say that a lot of the Axis countries (except for Italy) wouldn't have been doing much occupying. Bulgaria, for example, only occupied a relatively small portion of Greece. The Romanians (largest contingent in the East after Germany) didn't occupy any territory except the Soviet territories. Italy is the only one which had large occupation forces, so that is a factor and I will concede that. True, I didn't mention the USSR's forces, but many people already know that they had troops in the Far East etc. In fact, several commenters have pointed this out, and I've hearted their comments. My main focus though was to show that the manpower wasn't actually the issue, but the logistics. They could technically replace the manpower, but couldn't actually do it and keep those replacements supplied due to logistics issues.

@ElGrandoCaymano 2 года назад

The Italians had approximately 30 divisions or 500,000 troops across Yugoslavia (17 d), Albania, Dalmatia. Rhodes, occupied Greece & Greek Aegean islands up to the time of capitulation (Op.Achse). I believe Crete alone held approximately 30-50k German troops and its garrison didn't surrender until 10 May 1945.

@ivokantarski6220 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight Bulgaria occupied territories which were not made Greek in culture and ethnicity and in Yugoslavia there were millions of Bulgarians. As u may know Macedonian nation is a new invention. They were Bulgarians. So Bulgaria didnt had to use great forces to occupy. Dont have to name Bulgaria at all. It had no plans sending troops in the east since the troops wont feel like fighting those who once set them free and those who write in Bulgarian alphabet and speak a language who is potentially understandable while being on the side of some dreaming ancestors of Rome aka Romanians, or Hungarians or Germans who maybe we like but being real werent cultural relatives. It like why Italy was getting embarrassed in Greece. They are kinda cousins.

@MrCr1spy1 2 года назад

Get well soon, TIK. Thanks for all the content!

@eze8970 2 года назад

Great stuff TIK, thank you! Please take the time out to get better ASAP!

@akk-nd3vj 2 года назад

that 400k could also include german troops in north finland fighting russians. if count those and occupation troops might get lot closer to 400k. great video as usual, get well soon.

@Duncomrade 2 года назад

It specifically didn't count those in Finland, as they are counted towards being on the actual Eastern Front.

@johnmn3500 2 года назад

I like when Tik says "mad man Hitler" haha

@zomcom11 2 года назад

I hope you feel better! Good on you for still putting out a video even when sick.

@IL2TXGunslinger 2 года назад

The German Generals diaries and autobiographies - many, admittedly full of distortions - do in fact document the logistics issues. I think the problem is that laypeople, who haven’t served in the armed forces in times of duress - or in staff/logistical positions - can’t get their heads around it. But, war is logistics 1st - all the other factors being secondary.

@ElGrandoCaymano 2 года назад

The supply shortages within the pockets themselves are well-documented (though some were supplied successfully by air (Demyansk and also Velikiye Luki too), but are the quotations used prior to or after the Uranus offensive?

@user-jg1wm7zx3j 2 года назад

You can have a huge army, several times superior to the enemy's forces, and there is a huge amount of ammunition, but if your army is poorly trained and not properly motivated, it will scatter, and the enemy will get the ammunition

@Ronbo765 2 года назад

The German army was outnumbered prior to the invasion of France. Operational strategy won the battle. German logistics was sufficient. Oil was not.

@BOB-wx3fq 2 года назад

@@Ronbo765 battle of France Germany 141 divisions Allies 135 Personnel Germany 3.35m France/allies 3.3m Italy 300k

@Ronbo765 2 года назад

@@BOB-wx3fq That is soldiers. Not tanks or guns. 3,383-4,071 French tanks to 2445 German. 13,974 guns allied guns vs. 7378 German. 120,000 motorized vehicles, compared with the 300,000 of the French Army. German logistical transport consisted of horse-drawn vehicles.

@stevewatson6839 2 года назад

Thanks for answering one of my queries TIK. Tripling forces in Denmark makes sense, the Danes resistance was more subtle than blowing things up and you could actually rest and refit troops there, fed from local resources adjacent to the Reichs rail network still and also in a position to reinforce Norway if necessary. The figures I had in my head for Norway were quite a bit larger than you showed here. The Scandinavian deployments make more sense now the exagerated information I was relying on has been corrected. Take your time geting well, it should be obvious from Stalingrad the dire effects of running on empty. You are doing a great job; but YOU are more important than it. TTFN.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Glad you liked the video, but sorry it took so long to get to it. I've got a couple more of your questions to answer yet too (will do them in upcoming videos) so I'm stupidly far behind And yeah, Stalingrad is killing me, although this particular cold/flu isn't battle fatigue haha

@T0000000000001 2 года назад

The Murmansk/Karelia question is likely significant. Given that the Murmansk railway runs through there and the lack of the Murmansk railway before early 1917 (it was a wartime project) was almost certainly a severe hindrance to the Russian Empire`s WWI effort, not taking the railway was likely significantly harmful to the Axis cause. I suspect the Soviet position in the northern winter of 1941-2 would have been worse with no Arctic Convoys due to ice.

@stevewatson6839 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight But is that really so? My priors: 1)Tankies; Fellow Travellers; Korisne Budale; and Wehraboos will be over-represented 2) The Playable Characters will be asking far too many intelligent questions; the NPCs far too many naive ones. 3) There r no stupid questions; only stupid answers. 4) TIK will want to "Tidy up the battlefield" and b late breaking out of the beachhead. 5) TIK will then hive off to Brest for some random reason. This all adds up to: "There will be no 2nd Front this year or next." :-)

@mixererunio1757 2 года назад

Acting as a devil's advocate for HoI4 they implemented pretty nice garrison system. But still it's very simplified. But it gives me an interesting idea for a game where you have to allocate resources to either garrisons or fronts.

@maximilianolimamoreira5002 2 года назад

my only complaint about the game, is that it's laggy to some PCs.

@Anthony-jo7up 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight The new logistics system isn't out yet, but it looks really interesting. Rail-based supply, the option to switch to truck-based logistics. Even the artificial ports the British used. Might be out by the end of the year. The only massive logistics-based thing which isn't being covered is food. But since the game doesn't cover civilians I suppose it isn't a huge deal.

@sld1776 2 года назад

I dunno, man, I just did the no oil challenge: capitulate Poland, France, and the Soviet Union without ever using fuel. Finished by late 1941. Logistics may be a tad oversimplified...

@theeccentrictripper3863 2 года назад

@@sld1776 It's funny cuz I think the new DLC coming out is attempting to answer that critique, although with Paradox it's a dice roll on whether it'll be any good or not. I want to believe, HoI4 is pretty fun and it'd be more fun if you had to account for more real world factors.

@dusk6159 2 года назад

@@Anthony-jo7up Indeed, still that

@hetzerwesson 2 года назад

As always a spot on video! I actually look forward to Mondays, because of your excellent work. I hope you feel better soon. Take care.

@alexhodskins8426 2 года назад

Love seeing your patreon list growing as the weeks go by. You deserve it, great stuff.

@nekomakhea9440 2 года назад

"Mad Man Hitler put too many troops in Norway" Since the Allies didn't stage their beach landing there, he was arguably successful in his strategy of deterring a amphibious assault on the beaches of Norway with such a large build up.

@nophdcoyote3635 2 года назад

I think that was mostly due to project Harpo

@andro7862 2 года назад

Plenty of Norwegians pointed out that an amphibious invasion there would have been a total slaughter.

@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 2 года назад

As if 1940 wasn't remembered...

@AnImperialGod 2 года назад

No, he wasn’t successful because it never occurred. What you are saying is called specious reasoning.

@michelguevara151 2 года назад

get well soon, TIK

@andyalford7487 2 года назад

Love your analysis of the Eastern Theater of the war. Very well thought out and researched.

@hansschonig2472 2 года назад

this is 1st class content. love it!

@benwalker8447 2 года назад

Love your videos tik always a joy to see them. I hope you get better soon :)

@andreygalkin8870 2 года назад

New video! Get well soon & stay safe lad

@madaricgoran8937 2 года назад

another good one. get well soon!

@A_p_T53040 2 года назад

Thanks for the subtitles/closed captions. Not many use them but they're very useful to me

@Drain-Life-Archive 2 года назад

Sick and still puts out a good video. Too good for this network TIK. Need to take some days off to get better. Did you ever play the CNC remaster on Steam? Really good.

@NeoSpartacus17 2 года назад

Cool video, I was only generally aware of the number of Axis troops stationed in Yugoslavia beforehand (~100 000). I was wondering whether you would ever do a video on the 2nd Sino-Japanese war or something related to Japan? Love the vids

@z000ey 2 года назад

Actually TIK is pretty wrong about Axis troops in Yugoslavia, as Axis is Italy too. The number of Axis troops in Yugoslavia was pretty much >300.000 from late 1941. onwards and rising, this not counting local troops. In detail in my post here.

@elmaxidelsur 2 года назад

Thank you for your contribution to the understanding of history

@snax_4820 2 года назад

Very interesting - thank you.

@Crimson_Hawk_01 2 года назад

Shout out. I think your videos are very well done. I really like how you listen to your fan base. Thank you.

@samr8603 2 года назад

Another great and informative video on WW2.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Glad you liked it!

@samr8603 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight yep indeed studied World War 2 at Uni and unfortunately the oil situation was barely mentioned. Seemed even the lecturers believed Germany could just invade all his neighbours without there being logistical and fossil fuel issues.

@stellarsynth2007 2 года назад

I was thinking about this question yesterday! Thank you for reading my mind, and preparing everything in one day! :D I hope you get well soon!

@loungelizard3922 2 года назад

Agreed on your points for this video. A million old/young troops stationed around Europe partially drawing resources from those areas are not a burden on the Reich and would have been a further burden had they been in the East needing to be supplied. Also, occupied Europe gave depleted but capable and experienced units a place to rest and recuperate and be out of action for a while. They may have been idle for that time, but shoot at them and they will shoot back. Looking forward to your next video.

@normzemke7824 2 года назад

Very good points! However, I do wonder if having a million older men tied up elsewhere caused other issues. For example, the arms industry could have used them. Also one wonders if they could have been put to use straightening out the logistics issue by building roads or laying railroad tracks behind the front. ---- As always, I love these videos. Keep them coming!

@haroldhardrada7449 2 года назад

Although I agree with your general conclusions about supply & logistics, one point of correction. When counting the axis population you counted all the countries, but when counting the military you only counted the German army. If you discuss the entire population, then you have to calculate the ENTIRE axis military. This should include the Italians and other minor powers, including the Italian navy which was quite substantial. I would expect the number of non-German troops not in Russia to be well over one million.

@kocovgoce 2 года назад

From 1942 to 1943, there were 800,000 troops on the axis in Yugoslavia, one part were Croatian Ustashas, Chetniks, Italians, Germans, Albanian ballists ,Bulgarian, Hungarian and Romanian armies totaling 800,000 troops on the axis in end of 1942 and begin of 1943.

@MultiChris777 2 года назад

Very interesting topic !

@BridgeportIPA 2 года назад

Tik - love to see a similar assessment of Japanese manpower allocated to occupation of the colonised territories in Asia- which I don't think I've seen before in any detail. Admittedly, it may be somewhat less interesting because there weren't substantial Japanese collaborators. Nonetheless, I'm sure the Yanks were quite happy not to have to face, say, 500,000 more Imperial troops in Okinawa. I wonder if the Japanese faced similar logistics problems throughout Asia that would have hampered such a full-throated return to defend the homeland and other Pacific Islands. Thanks again and get well.

@Arkantos117 2 года назад

The real question is what Germany could've done to improve the logistical situation in Russia. Giant snowshoes? A massive collection of planks to make the mud more traversable? Sending their logisticians back to school?

@captaincoxwaggle6882 2 года назад

I would go with letting the Soviets attack first, allowing the Germans to utilise internal infrastructure, and probably mash a Soviet offensive at a point where it is most overstretched. And then hoping that this would inflict enough damage to the credibility of the Soviet Union together with the military losses to make a drive into Russia a more viable proposition.

@ElGrandoCaymano 2 года назад

Have the older men and fortress troops stationed in Western Europe be used in maintaining in-country (USSR) logistics depots and escort supply convoys to the troops at the front lines?

@firebird9711 2 года назад

Infinite numbers of 6x6 trucks with monster truck tires, infinite fuel to run them, and air supremacy to protect them.

@darklysm8345 2 года назад

That a topic which isnt very talked about. Yes the logistics was bad, but they could have improve it.

@David-il9xw 2 года назад

Or stop murdering and alienating Russians, Ukrainians, and Jews of all nations, but that would make the master race look a little less masterful.

@georgewilliams8448 2 года назад

Thank you for another well done and informative video covering a little mentioned subject. And please get well! I am really enjoying your Stalingrad series!! I recommend homemade Chicken Soup...

@safc76 2 года назад

Another great video 👍

@samsonsoturian6013 2 года назад

I just had a thought about the mismanagement of logistics: All those troops being sent to Army Group Center by a Halder who butted heads with the high command. Was Halder advocating a push in the center around that time? If so, it may be that he intended to create a fair accompli.

@EvilGNU 2 года назад

My Grandpa and his unit (Wehrmacht, Heeresgruppe Nord, Inf. Div 269) were pulled from the Frontlines of the Siege of Leningrad at some point after recieving "a serious beating" (iirc early to mid 42 but could be wrong here) and stationed in Norway until late in the war when they were "reused". I know a batallion or two of the division also got reassigned at this point. I know this is anecdotal but pulling depleted units into the rear seems to have been a thing. Still at least this would not use up "a lot of manpower"... because depletion. Also didn't they also use a lot of Police etc units to occupy and "second rate troops" like old conscripts etc.. ?

@RussianThunderrr 2 года назад

Thank you, TIK, for your hard work. I wish you to get well quickly. Thanks, again.

@calumdeighton 2 года назад

Hey TIK. Hope you get well soon, and don't push yourself. Can't have the General pushing himself too far now. Interesting episode, and a rather pragmatic approach by the Germans. Also explains a lot how Hogan's Heroes, and the French resistance at Renee café could do so much.

@awesomehpt8938 2 года назад

I didn’t know German soldiers were into bondage lol

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Apparently they were all subs, also known as u-boats

@awesomehpt8938 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight hey man, love your work. Your videos on ideology and oil were great.

@spoonwithoutleg 2 года назад

It was well documented in Allo, Allo!

@maximilianolimamoreira5002 2 года назад

well,they were into repressing resistance groups.

@keeblerorc 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight That humor is just below the surface

@w0lfgm 2 года назад

USSR did had occupation forces - just check Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran from the August 1941.

@nicholasconder4703 2 года назад

Sorry to hear you are sick. I am sure I speak for everyone on the channel wishing you a speedy recovery. Get well soon.

@bagasitogitto.f1826 2 года назад

Your videos do not inspire me to accept what you say as the total truth but rather to seek the data and information to find it by myself as how intriguing it is, keep up with the good work.

@aranos6269 2 года назад

At the same time stalin had to deal with various uprisings chechnya for example, I think crimea had serious problems even around Volga during move to Stalingrad there was anti Stalin resistance

@fiddlersgreen2433 2 года назад

Those were quite small issues compared to the number of troops guarding the turkish border & far east.

@oceanmadrosci3381 2 года назад

TIK is ill:(, I hope you recover quickly

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Thank you, it's lingering, but I'm sure I'll recover soon

@templewolves4184 2 года назад

Hope you feel better brother great video as usual…

@mabbrey 2 года назад

great stuff tik

@stuartmcalpine9468 2 года назад

I’m going to take a wild guess before I can watch this: The same thing some people prefer to ignore……the category of logistics and how many people it takes to do it.

@keeblerorc 2 года назад

Dont forget the strategic value of Norway as to supply of Uboats and navel patrol/anti shipping air assets... A lot of cargo used that north sea route to supply Russia.

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

I haven't - in fact, that's another Patreon Q&A I have to answer soon!

@sjsupa 2 года назад

great piece。

@mihaiserafim 2 года назад

I wish you a speedy recovery!

@hjalmar4565 2 года назад

I'm starting to feel more and more sorry for the people in Luxembourg. Even TIK ignored them in the occupation numbers!

@eriver 2 года назад

A million extra men working in factories could have made a difference though.

@eze8970 2 года назад

Yes, a fair point, but you still have to get the supplies to the front, which is where the Axis logistics broke down. Speer, with slave labour (that took over part of the German war production, so freed troops for the front), still managed to increase German production year on year, but as TIK showed in his logistics video, it got jammed in traffic delays, & later on, partisan & air attacks as well. You would also have to feed these men properly, whereas the slave labour was worked till it died. German troops were expected to supplement their rations from local sources, by stealing if necessary, so it helped reduce the burden back in Germany, which already had a food shortage.

@shafur3 2 года назад

This is late but I pray your better by now. Best Wishes and Thank you. Your the Best!

@tomfitzgerald8150 2 года назад

Dear TIK, thank you very much for your content. I went ahead purchased two books that you recommended "Russia's War and "It never snows in September". for the latter book; "It never snows in September" I bought a used copy hardbound and found to my delight that is was from the "Staff College Library in 1994" JSCSC. I have read both books and they were great. I am a retired Combat Engineer and was wondering if you could do a piece sometime in the future about Pioneers and their impacts during WW2. I was in the 9th Engineers at one point by the way (this was one of the units that helped secure the Remagen Bridge intact (at least for a little while). I have always wondered if they were as deadly and multifaceted as the modern day Combat Engineers of the US Army.

@soviettankmen 2 года назад

get well soon TIK. Remember your own productivity tips (btw my favorite productivity tips video in yt), get rest, don't overwork yourself (or something along that line)

@Black-js5ke 2 года назад

Morning!

@TheImperatorKnight 2 года назад

Evening!

@TheDa6781 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight get well soon TIK

@Black-js5ke 2 года назад

@@TheImperatorKnight Hope you get better soon

@hotcreamyfart 2 года назад

Hey, that "paint the map pretty colors simulator" is a pretty fun and informative game, sir.

@jaapsmid1134 2 года назад

Thanks TIK, excellent and clear and point for point explanation, supported by several independent sources and your own research.

@NJP9036 2 года назад

Get well soon! God bless.

@rudolfrednose7351 2 года назад

C’mon people, make TIK’s patreons list three rows wide!!!!

@anthonywall5227 2 года назад

Thank you

@Habdabi 2 года назад

Can I just say well done for thanking people that disagree. You are so right about history lying in the heart of the debate, and to be honest many other things do to. I hope for a more friendly and open minded society again one day.

@michaelstanton7904 2 года назад

I'm sure when the Allies landed on Normandy, it was overwhelming to the Germans.

@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 2 года назад

As to the effect it had on Germany's ability to wage war, the Battle of the Atlantic and the Air Campaign over Germany I'm sure took a considerable amount of men and material as well. Throw in the campaign in North Africa and the Italian Campaign, when the Allies landed in Normandy and then southern France, there had to be generals that knew it was over.

@weirdshibainu 2 года назад

@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 Germany was just spread too thin. Might have had a chance if they'd focused on North Africa, consolidated victories in Europe and delayed Russia for a few years. Stupid to fight a 2 front war.

@nerdyali4154 2 года назад

@@weirdshibainu Would Stalin have sat around waiting for Stalin to conquer Europe? You don't think Stalin had plans to attack Germany? Hitler was probably cautious about overcommitting in Europe in case Stalin seized the opportunity.

@weirdshibainu 2 года назад

@@nerdyali4154 There's always been a debate about Stalin's intentions toward Hitler. Surprisingly, Stalin ignored the frontline intelligence, even on the eve of Barbarossa that an attack was imminent and was legitimately surprised that Hitler broke the non agression pact. Stalin had a number of domestic issues at hand. I think Hitler probably had a 5 year window.

@iddomargalit-friedman3897 2 года назад

@@insideoutsideupsidedown2218 There absolutely were, they attempted a coup and failed.

@bucketlisttrips6408 2 года назад

TIK, there cannot be only 40,000 troops in France in 1942. These were not enough to deter Britain and the U.S. not to land in France in 1942. My understanding is that there at least 30 divisions of 10,000 each (not at full strength) in France in 1942. There are three German Armies: the 1st Army which was positioned on the Atlantic, the 7th Army which was in Brittany and Normandy, and the 15th Army at Pas de Calais. The 1st and 7th Army participated in November 1942 in the Case Anton, occupying the French territory of the Vichy regime.

@herrrobert5340 2 года назад

I also have a hard time believing there were only 40.000:- soldiers in France in 1942.

@thelistener0 2 года назад

Yes that 40 000 number is wrong. In 1942 OB West had 25 divisions. In november 1941 Germans had 395 000 men (28 divisions) in france. In May 1942 249 000 823 divisions)

@mohammedsaysrashid3587 2 года назад

nice explaining this historical issue

@suzannakoizumi8605 2 года назад

Feel better Tik! We love you!

@dondajulah4168 2 года назад

"but they were Italian troops" doesnt hold if you are comparing AXIS potential manpower to Soviet potential manpower. You have to count those in the total for occupation if you are going to count them as part of the population comparison. It is unclear from the video whether you are including them or not because you talk about Axis manpower throughout the video which implies that you are not discounting the non-German occupation forces. In any case, the main point you make is that the war on the Eastern Front was about logistics, not manpower. At least that is the case when the USSR withstood the initial onslaught and Germany had to fight a war of attrition deep in Soviet territory. It was not an unreasonable expectation for Hitler to think the USSR might surrender or fall into a state of chaos. It certainly was Germanys only chance to win the war with GB not giving up and the USA eventually entering the war against the Axis.

@z000ey 2 года назад

Just what I wanted to say... Axis is more than Germany

@Texscripter 2 года назад

Sounds like the '77th Brigade' is watching every Reich-related video just to get new ideas on how to manage us plebeians.

@corsa701 2 года назад

My grandfather was stationed in France. Mostly, because he had severly damaged his right hand by a band saw as a young boy and could not use it after this sccident. And as far as i know, the troops in France where also rather poorly equipped. He had a Mauser rifle, but that was mostly the only weapon type they had. So, even if they fought on the east and supplies would come in, their combat value was still rather low.

@oneWORMarmy 2 года назад

Love your videos man. The topic of war, in all of its complications, needs to be looked into further. How many mad men would NOT go that route due to the logistics alone? LOL